The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

flamming_python wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:

Khepesh wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:^^^^

I think we dont yet truly know how big a punch right sector can pull, RS and porky have danced around each other quite a few times now but none has really dared to call the others bluff so far.

Porkies hesitancy may more to do with his own lack of balls rather than the strength of RS, im sure RS could be crushed if needs be, but whether ukrainian forces will have the stomach for fighting their own uber patriotic brothers is another question.  RS may not be the entity that splits the government  in itself, but may form the catalyst for other powers to come into play.

Catalyst. If serious fighting erupts in west or even central Ukraine then I think that will be the end of ATO. The silence of scum like Tyagnibok is interesting.

And these last weeks DNR/LNR have almost fallen over in desire to seem meak and mild and as passive as possible. If plan is truely cunning, then nobody will no what it is or even suspect what it could be, the end result maybe, but not how. I don't know, but it's all so odd now....

If i were influential in novorossia and feeling a bit naughty, id be tempted to send some people down to mukachevo with a nice suitcase full of weapons and carry out a couple of ambushes on the army and RS. Stir it up a bit.

If the Russian GRU has any plans to assassinate Yarosh - now would be an excellent time to implement them.

I would wait and see which way he is moving first, if he looking for compromise with poroshenko then take him out, if he is looking for a fight, let him be the useful idiot and damage porky as much as possible.

Yarosh has a bullet with his name written on it, he will get it sooner or later, the most important thing is not to pull the trigger too early whilst he can be useful. I prefer a useful soon to be dead scumbag rather than just a dead scumbag.

He's moving for a compromise, and always will; he's smart enough not to get into a direct fight with the SBU and Porko; he values his own life too much.

Which means that the objective should be to remove the compliant and subordinated old-guard like Yarosh, and try to promote the emergance of younger, more impatient leaders who are more likely to get into a direct conflict with Ukrainian power structures.
Think of it in terms of the IRA and Provisional IRA in Northern Ireland. Who do you think British Intelligence secretly supported?

I can believe that he is going for compromise, the man is a snake who will look after himself, so if thats the case then he should be taken out in a way that makes the sbu look guilty.

Who is the number two or number three in charge of right sector? I do wonder how long it will be before rs members start wondering who yarosh is really working for.

EU flag replaced with flag of Right Sector nationalist group in Ukraine's Lviv

http://tass.ru/en/world/808153

Right Sector activists demand a fair investigation of the development in the city of Mukachevo in Ukraine’s Trans-Carpathian region

KIEV, July 13. /TASS/. Activists of Ukraine’s Right Sector, a radical organization  banned in Russia, have hauled down the European Union flag at the building of the Lviv region administration and hoisted their black-an-red flag instead, Radio Liberty said on its Twitter account on Monday.

Currently, Right Sector activists are rallying at the Lviv region administration building demanding a fair investigation of the development in the city of Mukachevo in Ukraine’s Trans-Carpathian region. They say President Petro Poroshenko was wrong to place responsibility for the incident on the Right Sector without court ruling. Apart from that, they demand the resignation of Ukrainian Interior Minister Arsen Avakov.
On Saturday, July 11, gunmen of the Right Sector extremist group allegedly opened fire from small arms at their opponents while discussing the "redistribution of spheres of influence" in Mukachevo. The extremists later opened fire from rifles, heavy machine guns and grenade launchers at the police who arrived at the scene. They destroyed several police vehicles and also set fire to a traffic police checkpoint and a petrol station. As a result, three people were killed and 11 more were wounded. Some of the gunmen were later blocked in a wooded area near the city. The Right Sector says two of its gunmen were killed and four wounded. Prosecutors described the incident as a terrorist attack

Rodinazombie wrote:

If i were influential in novorossia and feeling a bit naughty, id be tempted to send some people down to mukachevo with a nice suitcase full of weapons and carry out a couple of ambushes on the army and RS. Stir it up a bit.

And right on cue, pravy sektor spokesman Andrei Sharashkin has said on 112 channel that the sports complex in Mukachevo was being used not only by local crimminals, but also DRG "Ryazan". So, if in this bizarre ukrops fantasy world VSN already have spetsnaz working in Transcarpathia, then what more blame can there be if real ones appear. It would not even be news if real VSN spetsnaz were there as it's already old news and nobody would be surprised. ukrops cannot think more than a few seconds into the future....

Khepesh wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:

If i were influential in novorossia and feeling a bit naughty, id be tempted to send some people down to mukachevo with a nice suitcase full of weapons and carry out a couple of ambushes on the army and RS. Stir it up a bit.

And right on cue, pravy sektor spokesman Andrei Sharashkin has said on 112 channel that the sports complex in Mukachevo was being used not only by local crimminals, but also DRG "Ryazan". So, if in this bizarre ukrops fantasy world VSN already have spetsnaz working in Transcarpathia, then what more blame can there be if real ones appear. It would not even be news if real VSN spetsnaz were there as it's already old news and nobody would be surprised. ukrops cannot think more than a few seconds into the future....

Of interest is the fact that RFAF seem to be able to practice OpSec rather well, witness the orcs and Langley had not a clue of anything amiss in Novorossysk until 30 minutes after the landing ships hit the beaches around Kerch last year and were heading back for another load as the aircap flooded the skies of Krimu. Since NAF appear to be apt pupils and more than a few of them are veterans, I would not be at all surprised if there was the odd group or two here and there all over orcland.

Rodinazombie wrote:Who is the number two or number three in charge of right sector? I do wonder how long it will be before rs members start wondering who yarosh is really working for.

But there's a problem, RS is sincere by Ukrainian standards and that's why they haven't hidden their agenda and allegiances in the past. If Yarosh makes a deal be sure that he is going to state very clearly his reasons as he has done before. Obviously it's not because he's a great person but because the appearance of genuine sincerity reports a lot of sympathies among a population that see their politicians as dishonest liars.

Hm, in post 424 I mentioned, not even particulary seriously, that pravy sektor could portray themselves as on the side of ordinary people and to be victims of the state. I now find this ukrops article quoting the head of the center for prisoner exchange, Vladimir Ruban, as saying that pravy sektor "protect" Ukranians while the authorities engage in robbery and impede the legalisation of firearms. He isn't exactly taking sides with pravy sektor and says that this conflict is dangerous and could lead to creation of "Transcarpathian People's Republic". Where he sides with pravy sektor is that while the government is legally correct in banning private use of firearms, he says that pravy sektor, against the law, "protects" the public, yet the state denies the right of the public to protect itself and the country, and that everybody should have a weapon in their homes. He is admitting that normal law and order do not exist in Ukraine any more and pravy sektor can "protect" people more than the state. He is also seeing beyond the crimminal thug face of pravy sektor to the underlying politics. When a state is seen to fail and cannot protect it's citizens, from whatever form of danger, political, military or financial, and Ukraine has all of these, then people will look to alternatives who can protect them. Think Weimar Germany. This gets complicated and future events are very cloudy.
http://gordonua.com/news/localnews/Ruban-Rezultatom-konflikta-v-Mukachevo-mozhet-stat-Zakarpatskaya-narodnaya-respublika-Eto-ochen-opasnaya-igra-89337.html

Khepesh wrote:Hm, in post 424 I mentioned, not even particulary seriously, that pravy sektor could portray themselves as on the side of ordinary people and to be victims of the state. I now find this ukrops article quoting the head of the center for prisoner exchange, Vladimir Ruban, as saying that pravy sektor "protect" Ukranians while the authorities engage in robbery and impede the legalisation of firearms. He isn't exactly taking sides with pravy sektor and says that this conflict is dangerous and could lead to creation of "Transcarpathian People's Republic". Where he sides with pravy sektor is that while the government is legally correct in banning private use of firearms, he says that pravy sektor, against the law, "protects" the public, yet the state denies the right of the public to protect itself and the country, and that everybody should have a weapon in their homes. He is admitting that normal law and order do not exist in Ukraine any more and pravy sektor can "protect" people more than the state. He is also seeing beyond the crimminal thug face of pravy sektor to the underlying politics. When a state is seen to fail and cannot protect it's citizens, from whatever form of danger, political, military or financial, and Ukraine has all of these, then people will look to alternatives who can protect them. Think Weimar Germany. This gets complicated and future events are very cloudy.
http://gordonua.com/news/localnews/Ruban-Rezultatom-konflikta-v-Mukachevo-mozhet-stat-Zakarpatskaya-narodnaya-respublika-Eto-ochen-opasnaya-igra-89337.html

Halfway through your post my thought was also Weimar Republik with some 1937 Reich tossed in. Right Sector are no sweethearts by any stretch of the imagination and that's being kind. Do you remember that fat putz who was terrorizing half of orcland last year, Bily, who ended up somewhat dead? He is the true face of Right Sector, anything else is just pretty curtains on the Gestapo basement windows.

auslander wrote:

Halfway through your post my thought was also Weimar Republik with some 1937 Reich tossed in. Right Sector are no sweethearts by any stretch of the imagination and that's being kind. Do you remember that fat putz who was terrorizing half of orcland last year, Bily, who ended up somewhat dead? He is the true face of Right Sector, anything else is just pretty curtains on the Gestapo basement windows.

I was thinking that Bily was a sort of very low grade analogue of Ernst Röhm. It's also surreal to see pravy sektor now being cheered on by mortal enemies, we know why, but perhaps it has opposite effect and could harm pravy sektor. And how can I now even say those words, interesting times.....

Since when do hostages make demands? Although it would be fun if they get the debt cut, just to see the looks on Greek's faces.  

Suffering, sweet suffering...


Ukraine’s Government Urges International Creditors to 'be Cooperative'

Prime minister Yatsenyuk addressed Ukraine's creditors, asking them to accept Kiev's offers.

WASHINGTON (Sputnik) – Ukraine’s creditors should collaborate with Kiev and agree on the debt restructuring offers suggested by the government, Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said at US-Ukraine Business Forum in Washington, DC, on Monday.
“We ask our creditors to be cooperative and collaborative,” Yatsenyuk said. “We ask our creditors to accept the offers that have been made by the Ukrainian government and find compromise.”

In mid-June, Ukraine asked creditors to take a 40-percent write-down in principal and accept new bonds tied to its future economic performance under its repayment plan.

On June 26, Ukrainian Finance Minister Natalie Jaresko said the creditor group had refused to contribute to Ukraine's recovery, warning that Kiev was ready to cut off debt payments if negotiations did not progress.
Yatsenyuk argued that by agreeing on the Kiev’s debt restructuring proposal, the creditors will help Ukraine to become a success story.

“This is the way to support the Ukrainian people,” he said.

The total public debt of Ukraine is some $70 billion dollars, $40 billion of which make up the foreign debt.

Despite denials from Yarosh, Eduard Basurin, the chieff of Staff of Donetsk People's republic confirms the Right Sector troops have left the front and are heading to Kiev

source: vz.ru.news

Khepesh wrote:

auslander wrote:

Halfway through your post my thought was also Weimar Republik with some 1937 Reich tossed in. Right Sector are no sweethearts by any stretch of the imagination and that's being kind. Do you remember that fat putz who was terrorizing half of orcland last year, Bily, who ended up somewhat dead? He is the true face of Right Sector, anything else is just pretty curtains on the Gestapo basement windows.

I was thinking that Bily was a sort of very low grade analogue of Ernst Röhm. It's also surreal to see pravy sektor now being cheered on by mortal enemies, we know why, but perhaps it has opposite effect and could harm pravy sektor. And how can I now even say those words, interesting times.....

We cheer them on simply because we know they are attacking our enemy, a mortal enemy when you consider the backing they are getting from people and entities that should know better. In the end we will face, hopefully, RS on the field of battle. We'll see how brave they are coming up against people who are armed and can, and will, fight back.

Ispan wrote:Despite denials from Yarosh, Eduard Basurin,  the chieff of Staff of Donetsk People's republic confirms the Right Sector troops have left the front and are heading to Kievsource: vz.ru.news

We will see in the next few days if this is true or not. Even if true, generally rs were REMF's, rarely holding active areas of the front if ever, ergo I have not heard of any areas of the orc lines being denuded of troops and left wide open.

Khepesh wrote:It's also surreal to see pravy sektor now being cheered on by mortal enemies, we know why, but perhaps it has opposite effect and could harm pravy sektor. And how can I now even say those words, interesting times.....

Oh I hope they're all strung up like dogs in the end, and I think everyone shares my sentiment.
What better means to that end than to encourage them to kill and weaken each other?

Pravyj Sektor needs our encouragement, they're the weaker party here; the aim is to raise the chances of a conflict breaking out to as high possible, and to be able to sustain it for as long as possible - thus it's neccessery to attempt to shore up the weaker side.

An RS-ruled Ukraine will also be far more preferable for the Novorussian cause than the current Oligarchic & Bought-out Security-service Ukraine is. It will destroy itself faster, discredit itself faster, lose all support among its population and military faster and so on; Novorussia will have all the excuse it needs to launch an all-out blistering offensive against it and wipe the Ukronazis from the face of the Earth.

Kiev now has a 2 front war, one in the east with the rebels on the Russian border, and now a second, in the West with Right Sector and the Ultra Nationalists who want a Nationalist Ukraine, or to carve out their own State???

Sooo, if, and can Right Sector move their 20 battalions from the east fighting against the rebels, to the West, to defend themselves from Kiev?? & will any of the other Volunteer battalions join Right Sector??

Or will they stay with the ATO, or stay in the East, perhaps to assist Kolomoisky carve out his fiefdom??

If these events will escalate even further Praviy Sektor will be out of action. Well atleast in Eastern Ukraine.
I do hope Western Ukraine will rise up against Kiev.

Ivan Katchanovski
7 hrs · Edited ·

The governor of the Transcapathia Region and the Kyiv Prosecutor office say that the Right Sector members, who killed a security guard and wounded several policemen and bystanders, escaped the purported encirclement. The head of the Right Sector refused to order them to surrender and the Ukrainian government instead conducted negotiations with him. This is another illustration of significant power that this far right organization obtained in Ukraine after playing a key part in the violent overthrow of the government, specifically in the Maidan massacre of the protesters and the police. The government is still unable to re-establish its monopoly on violence. The far right has demonstrated again that they have power to violently overthrow the government of Ukraine.

http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/3538607-shturma-pravoho-sektora-v-mukachevo-ne-budet-prokuratura

Regular wrote:If these events will escalate even further Praviy Sektor will be out of action. Well atleast in Eastern Ukraine.
I do hope Western Ukraine will rise up against Kiev.

I hope Donbass and Azov abandon Ato that would cause a massive problem for Kyiv

Ukraine opposition concerned over upsurge of extremism in Transcarpathian region
World
July 13, 15:36 UTC+3
Head of the Opposition Bloc parliamentary faction in the Verkhovna Rada Yury Boyko has said that "it is not a local conflict, it is a problem of the entire country."

KIEV, July 13. /TASS/. Non-submission of gunmen of the Right Sector far-right group to Kiev and a series of attacks on civilian targets in the city of Mukachevo in western Ukraine are seen by Ukrainians as an immediate threat to the country’s national integrity. Head of the Opposition Bloc parliamentary faction in the Verkhovna Rada Yury Boyko has said that "it is not a local conflict, it is a problem of the entire country."

Special hearings are scheduled in the parliament for Tuesday - "with reports by the heads of the law enforcement agencies regarding the current situation and plans for remedying it - what needs to be done in this regard," Boyko said.

A series of incidents in the Transcarpathian region began on Saturday when the Right Sector extremists launched an attack on a cafe and shot at a traffic police station. The attacks claimed the lives of three people, another 11 were wounded. Ukraine’s Defense Ministry sent armored vehicles to Mukachevo, two militants were wounded and detained, and two dozen disappeared in the woods after a siege. The Transcarpathian region is the birthplace of Stepan Bandera, who was the leader of the terrorist branch of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and a Nazi collaborator during World War II. The area has many hideouts dug and carefully camouflaged by gunmen during the post-war years.

Mayor of Mukachevo Zoltan Lengyel has declared enhanced security regime in the city. Head of the Verkhovna Rada Vladimir Groysman demanded to conduct a "thorough investigation" into the events in Mukachevo. Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk ordered to dismiss the leaders of the regional law enforcement agencies and to bring criminal charges. The prosecutor’s office called the developments in Mokachevo a terrorist attack.

Ukrainian military relocate heavy weapons to western Mukachevo — Right Sector

http://tass.ru/en/world/807944

"It is a big column, even with gas and water suppliers; it is near Mukachevo already," a representative of the extremist organisation Right Sector, Andrei Sharaskin, said

Cowboy's daughter wrote:"It is a big column, even with gas and water suppliers; it is near Mukachevo already," a representative of the extremist organisation Right Sector, Andrei Sharaskin, said

People in Transcarpathia is already foaming at their mouths after the first sight of military vehicles in their roads, the resentment is only going to grow if they don't reach an agreement soon.

Most of the soldiers in ATO are from Western Ukraine so they wouldn't join seps and wouldn't care about shelling civilians. But now war is comming home and they might have to think where their allegiance lies. I believe Pravyi Sektor would be hard to eliminate if it comes to this. Too much support among western part of Ukraine.

Another High-Ranking Ukraine Official Switches to Donetsk Republic

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150713/1024572641.html