The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

Neutrality wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Neutrality wrote:

sepheronx wrote:If NAF does not fight back after these events, then I give up any full supporting of them.  They have proved to be incompetent and they are allowing their own people to die.  Eventually, the people will see this, the unwillingness of self defence, and will turn on NAF and be willing to be ruled under Kiev's authorities (for peace and security of not going to die from artillery fire).  The ones who did fight back will end up facing persecution and the rest will flee.  Russia will in the end look like fools and traitors.

NAF is f***ed.  They are getting ass kicked right now and losing territory all in the name of good will.  We know specifically once they pull back, PUkes will move in and we will be back to what we are now, but with PUkes shelling even further in Donetsk/Lugansk and nothing done.

Yeah, they will just love that. The very people that have killed several thousand of their relatives. Stop the panick already and wait to see what happens.

You think they will waltz in and ethnic cleanse?  Oh no, it is much easier for them to start pushing the brainwashing even more.  At the expense though, people will take it as it is a hell of a lot better than being worried that an artillery shell will land on you, while your so called compatriots that are supposed to be defending you, are hiding away and moving troops around but doing squat.  I know I would.  I think at this point, NAF has given up and people have fled, hence why no one has heard from Givi or Motorolla or the like.  Now the bombardments have increased and gone even further into Donetsk, and they have done nothing.

Sorry, you cannot wait on these things.  One has to act or you wont have people left.  Especially people who will support you.  Because lets face it, sitting back and doing nothing for "good will", isn't going to protect you from a 100mm shell landing on you, or a 7.62 round in the head.

Who exactly fled? Why do people immediately assume that Givi and Motorola fled or something terrible has happened to them because there's silence from them? Seriously, you are worse than the Western MSM a few months back. Creating all sorts of conspiracies about Putin and why he hadn't appeared in public for over a week.

Because it is a very bad time to be silent. Putin needed some free time and the situation was not critical, hence it was okay.
Not in this case.
And naturally, we are trying to make sense of it because the official narrative is not convincing at all.

Neutrality wrote:

sepheronx wrote:
He is right you know.  IF you know otherwise, please post it.  Because here are the facts so far:

-Donetsk is getting shelled even more
-PUkes are moving closer, and increasing troops
-NAF is being mentally retarded by pulling troops back
-Have not done a thing to stop the artillery strikes even though people demanded it
-Innocent civilians are dying by quite a bit
-Givi and Motorolla vanished
-Minister of taxation in Donetsk arrested in Russia
-No demands from Russian government regarding about the attacks on Novorussia from artillery fire

I have to say, I think he is correct.

I'll report what I said earlier:

I'm going to go ahead and state a crazy thought. I think the NAF are pulling back their manpower and armor from the frontlines not just to "adhere to the Minsk agreements" but to simply bait the VSU into attacking villages around Donetsk and Donetsk itself. That Ukrop infantry assault into Alexandrovka (if indeed true) basically suggests this is the strategy. This gives the NAF 2 advantages: Clearly showing that Kiev is the one who doesn't give a flying fuck about Minsk-II (political advantage) and forcing the VSU out of their fortified positions (strategic advantage).

Molon labe Ukrops.

Neutrality wrote:

sepheronx wrote:
He is right you know.  IF you know otherwise, please post it.  Because here are the facts so far:

-Donetsk is getting shelled even more
-PUkes are moving closer, and increasing troops
-NAF is being mentally retarded by pulling troops back
-Have not done a thing to stop the artillery strikes even though people demanded it
-Innocent civilians are dying by quite a bit
-Givi and Motorolla vanished
-Minister of taxation in Donetsk arrested in Russia
-No demands from Russian government regarding about the attacks on Novorussia from artillery fire

I have to say, I think he is correct.

I'll report what I said earlier:

I'm going to go ahead and state a crazy thought. I think the NAF are pulling back their manpower and armor from the frontlines not just to "adhere to the Minsk agreements" but to simply bait the VSU into attacking villages around Donetsk and Donetsk itself. That Ukrop infantry assault into Alexandrovka (if indeed true) basically suggests this is the strategy. This gives the NAF 2 advantages: Clearly showing that Kiev is the one who doesn't give a flying fuck about Minsk-II (political advantage) and forcing the VSU out of their fortified positions (strategic advantage).

Molon labe Ukrops.

Flagship Victory wrote:It is a fact that Putin ordered NAF to pull back weapons under 100 mm 3 km back, that includes 82 mm mortars, 76 mm SPG-9, RPGs, AK assault rifles, pistols. The only weapons NAF has now are knives. Putin is more concerned about his pockets than for people's lives.

Neutrality wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Neutrality wrote:

sepheronx wrote:
He is right you know.  IF you know otherwise, please post it.  Because here are the facts so far:

-Donetsk is getting shelled even more
-PUkes are moving closer, and increasing troops
-NAF is being mentally retarded by pulling troops back
-Have not done a thing to stop the artillery strikes even though people demanded it
-Innocent civilians are dying by quite a bit
-Givi and Motorolla vanished
-Minister of taxation in Donetsk arrested in Russia
-No demands from Russian government regarding about the attacks on Novorussia from artillery fire

I have to say, I think he is correct.

I'll report what I said earlier:

I'm going to go ahead and state a crazy thought. I think the NAF are pulling back their manpower and armor from the frontlines not just to "adhere to the Minsk agreements" but to simply bait the VSU into attacking villages around Donetsk and Donetsk itself. That Ukrop infantry assault into Alexandrovka (if indeed true) basically suggests this is the strategy. This gives the NAF 2 advantages: Clearly showing that Kiev is the one who doesn't give a flying fuck about Minsk-II (political advantage) and forcing the VSU out of their fortified positions (strategic advantage).

Molon labe Ukrops.

There isn't and never will be any political advantage over that.  I don't know where you are from, but here in Canada we do not hear a single word about the artillery strikes, and if pointed out this - people shut their ears and go "la la la la" to drown out the noise.  This seems to be quite evident by most european countries and US too.  Winning browny points to people whom don't matter and wont change their own system regardless of protests, is pointless entirely.

As for strategic; well, I don't think so.  Let us see.  But I assume that over time, the civilians are going to get real tired of living day in day out, worried if an artillery shell is going to hit them on their way to work or to school.  If that is the case, then I can only assume that they will revolt at NAF entirely and that would be the end of them.

And no one cares about Canada. Because Canada nor the US are part of the Normandy 4. So whatever Canada thinks or doesn't think, no one gives a flying fuck about that complete retard that you guys call your PM.

PapaDragon wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Neutrality wrote:

sepheronx wrote:If NAF does not fight back after these events, then I give up any full supporting of them.  They have proved to be incompetent and they are allowing their own people to die.  Eventually, the people will see this, the unwillingness of self defence, and will turn on NAF and be willing to be ruled under Kiev's authorities (for peace and security of not going to die from artillery fire).  The ones who did fight back will end up facing persecution and the rest will flee.  Russia will in the end look like fools and traitors.

NAF is f***ed.  They are getting ass kicked right now and losing territory all in the name of good will.  We know specifically once they pull back, PUkes will move in and we will be back to what we are now, but with PUkes shelling even further in Donetsk/Lugansk and nothing done.

Yeah, they will just love that. The very people that have killed several thousand of their relatives. Stop the panick already and wait to see what happens.

You think they will waltz in and ethnic cleanse?  Oh no, it is much easier for them to start pushing the brainwashing even more.  At the expense though, people will take it as it is a hell of a lot better than being worried that an artillery shell will land on you, while your so called compatriots that are supposed to be defending you, are hiding away and moving troops around but doing squat.  I know I would.  I think at this point, NAF has given up and people have fled, hence why no one has heard from Givi or Motorolla or the like.  Now the bombardments have increased and gone even further into Donetsk, and they have done nothing.

Sorry, you cannot wait on these things.  One has to act or you wont have people left.  Especially people who will support you.  Because lets face it, sitting back and doing nothing for "good will", isn't going to protect you from a 100mm shell landing on you, or a 7.62 round in the head.

I'm sure Givi and Motorola are dying to post their GPS coordinates on Facebook  

sepheronx wrote:
 I don't know where you are from, but here in Canada we do not hear a single word about the artillery strikes, and if pointed out this - people shut their ears and go "la la la la" to drown out the noise.  This seems to be quite evident by most european countries and US too.  Winning browny points to people whom don't matter and wont change their own system regardless of protests, is pointless entirely.

Neutrality wrote:

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

Neutrality wrote:I'm going to go ahead and state a crazy thought. I think the NAF are pulling back their manpower and armor from the frontlines not just to "adhere to the Minsk agreements" but to simply bait the VSU into attacking villages around Donetsk and Donetsk itself. That Ukrop infantry assault into Alexandrovka (if indeed true) basically suggests this is the strategy.

Unless these locations are evacuated, that is a very dirty strategy.
The NAF is supposed to protect people, not let them get killed.

Neutrality wrote:This gives the NAF 2 advantages: Clearly showing that Kiev is the one who doesn't give a flying fuck about Minsk-II (political advantage) and forcing the VSU out of their fortified positions (strategic advantage).

This "political advantage" is worthless.
Everyone who pays even just a bit attention to the conflict knows that Kiev has violated Minsk-II all the time.
The rest does not care.

Evacuation is precisely what the NAF have been doing this past week. Some decided to stay and I'm sure many have been adequatelly warned about the dangers of staying close to the frontlines.

Kiev has violated the Minsk II agreements by shelling. They haven't made any assault yet which would be a political blunder on their part since it would be extremely hard for the OSCE to deny this.

Flagship Victory wrote:Maidan leader says Russia gave Buk to NAF who shot down MH17

par far wrote:"In case of escalation in Donbas costs for Russia will go up" - Nuland. I don't think these people look at what Russia is doing not to start a war, I say f*** everything and go on the offensive and drive these thugs out. There are going to sanctions and threats no matter what happens. People are being killed and that is not a good for moral and everything else. And one more think I would also like to point that people making threats against are mostly Jewish(call me an anti-Semitic, I don't give a flying f***).

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/278757.html

Neutrality wrote:

sepheronx wrote:
So then who would it win political advantage over?  Whom will care?

Members of the Normandy 4? Like Germany and France? I understand the biasness of Merkel and Hollande but even THEY can't deny certain things nor act like they are blind and deaf.