Iam not a specialist, I just want to understand how manoeuvrable are fighters in a likely dogfight. F-16C has wing loading of 392 kg/m2, F-22 has wing loading of 313,5 kg/m2, Mig-21 bis Wing loading: 379 kg/m² but Thrust/weight: 0.82, and could reach 1.11. In a dogfight with a good pilot a mig-21 could overcome F-16C, however as the F-16A with wing loading of 349,5 kg/m2 and thrust-to-weight ratio of 1,29 the Mig-21 could hardly match it. It was the case during the battle of the Bekaa, where syrian air force downed several F-16 A. The F-15C has 358 kg/m² wing loading, and Thrust/weight: 1.07. Nevertheless because of its weight, its weapons, Israel -refused to acknowledge the losses- lost several F-15 due to Mig-21, and Mig-23. Moreover the thrust to weight is variable, it depend obviously the load, the weight of radars, missiles, censors. But the myth of the super manoeuvrable F-22 is hardly tenable. As you can see, the SU-35, beside the Mig-35 -Mig seems to be the best- are the best manoeuvrable fighters. Now, it lacks the wing loading figures for each aircraft. You can see that the Mig-21 is still a very good fighter ultra manoeuvrable, and still a threat for many western fighters.
http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/fighterplanes/texts/articles/twr.html
PS: I could not guarantee that these figures are correct, if you have more reliable figures please post them. Moreover, if a such topic exists please move the thread in appropriate area, and inform me where in PM. Iam very interrested by your answers.
http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/fighterplanes/texts/articles/twr.html
PS: I could not guarantee that these figures are correct, if you have more reliable figures please post them. Moreover, if a such topic exists please move the thread in appropriate area, and inform me where in PM. Iam very interrested by your answers.
Thrust to Weight Ratios of all Fighter Planes
TWR or T/W ratio = (Max Thrust of Engine[s] / (Empty Weight + (3.505 Tonnes of Fuel & Weapons, or only Internal Fuel)))
1.30 - Su-35S
1.29 - F-15K
1.26 - Su-27S
1.25 - Eurofighter
1.24 - Mig-35 (T/W = 1.45 during Emergency Thrust*)
1.23 - Su-27SK & J-11A
1.19 - Mig-29M/M2 (T/W = 1.39 during Emergency Thrust*)
1.19 - F-15C
1.18 - F-22A (T/W = 1.37 with Round nozzles?)
1.16 - Su-30MKK
1.16 - Rafale C
1.16 - F-35A
1.15 - Mig-29B (9-12)
1.14 - Su-30MKI (T/W = 1.21 during Emergency Thrust@)
1.13 - Mig-29 (9-13), S, SD, SE & SM
1.11 - F/A-18E (F/A-18F: 1.09)
1.10 - Rafale M
1.10 - Mig-29 BM & SMT (T/W = 1.15 during Emergency Thrust*)
1.09 - F-16E Block 60
1.09 - Mig-29K (T/W = 1.28 during Emergency Thrust*)
1.09 - F-18C
1.09 - J-8III(or J-8C)
1.08 - F-35B
1.08 - F-14 B & D
1.06 - F-16C Block 52 (Block 50: T/W = 1.055)
1.05 - J-8IIm
1.04 - AV-8B+ Harrier II
1.03 - F-2A (F-2B: 1.02)
1.03 - JH-7
1.02 - F-16A Block 10
1.01 - F-35C
1.01 - J-8II & J-8IIb & J-8IId
1.00 - J-10A
1.00 - Harrier GR7A
0.99 - Su-34 & Su-32FN & Su-27IB
0.99 - Sea Harrier FA2 & FRS51
0.99 - F-16A Block 20
0.97 - Su-15T
0.95 - MiG-23 P, ML, MLA & MLD
0.94 - Gripen NG
0.94 - F-4E
0.94 - J-8
0.93 - Mirage 2000-5
0.93 - Su-15TM
0.93 - F-101B
0.92 - Harrier GR7
0.92 - E E Lightning F6
0.91 - F-16C Block 25
0.91 - Yak-28 I & P
0.91 - F-111F
0.91 - Su-24
0.90 - Su-15
0.88 - Mirage-2000 C & H
0.87 - F-14A
0.87 - Mig-23 MF & MS
0.87 - Su-24 M, MK & M2
0.86 - F-CK-1
0.86 - LCA (T/W = 0.91 during Emergency Thrust****)
0.86 - Su-9
0.84 - Su-11
0.84 - Su-17M
0.83 - Tornado F3 Air Defence Variant
0.83 - Tornado GR1
0.83 - Su-20
0.82 - JF-17 (T/W = 0.86 during Emergency Thrust*)
0.82 - Su-22
0.81 - Gripen A
0.81 - Su-7B
0.81 - F-20
0.80 - Gripen C
0.80 - Mig-27K
0.80 - Su-7BM
0.79 - Mig-21 Bis (T/W = 1.11 in Emergency Thrust mode**)
0.79 - JA-37 Viggen
0.79 - Mig-27
0.79 - Su-17M2
0.78 - Mig-23BN
0.78 - Su-7 BKL & BMK
0.78 - Javelin FAW MK9
0.77 - Mig-23S
0.77 - J-7IIIa
0.76 - Mig-27 D & ML
0.76 - Mig-23M(E)
0.76 - F-106A
0.76 - F-7MG & F-7BG & F-7PG & J-7E & J-7G (WP-7N: T/W = 0.69)
0.76 - Q-5D
0.75 - Kfir C.7
0.75 - Kfir C.2
0.75 - AJ-37 Viggen
0.75 - J-7III
0.74 - Mig-21SM
0.73 - Su-17
0.73 - Mig-21MF
0.73 - Su-17M3
0.73 - Mig-19S*** (MTOW T/W = 0.86)
0.72 - Yak-27K
0.72 - Su-17M4
0.72 - F-104G
0.71 - Mig-19P*** (MTOW T/W = 0.84)
0.71 - Mig-21PF
0.71 - Supermarine Scimitar F.1
0.71 - Cheetah C
0.70 - Mig-21M
0.70 - Su-25SM
0.69 - Jaguar GR1
0.69 - J-35F Draken
0.69 - Mig-21F
0.69 - Mig-21 F-13
0.69 - J-7II
0.69 - Su-25 or Su-25T
0.68 - F-105F/G
0.68 - Mirage 50
0.68 - F-7M(or F-7MP or F-7MB) & F-7P
0.67 - F-1
0.67 - F4D-1/F-6 Skyray
0.66 - Mirage F-1
0.66 - F-8P
0.64 - F-102A
0.63 - Sea Vixen FAW.2
0.63 - Su-25TM or Su-39
0.62 - Yak-27
0.61 - Yak-38M (TWR during STOVL/VTOL takeoff: 1.20)
0.61 - Mirage-5A
0.61 - J-32B Lansen
0.60 - A-4S1
0.59 - Mirage-III E & D
0.58 - Yak-38 (T/W during STOVL/VTOL takeoff: 1.16)
0.58 - IAI Nesher
0.58 - F-5E Tiger-II
0.56 - F-100D
0.56 - A-6E
0.55 - A-7E
0.51 - Super Étendard
0.50 - F3H-2 Demon
0.49 - A-10A
0.49 - F-11A
0.49 - AMX
0.47 - Étendard-IV M
0.46 - F-89D
0.46 - Super Mystère B.2
0.46 - Hunter F 6
0.45 - Marut Mk.1
0.43 - Yak-25
0.43 - F-94C/F-97A
0.43 - F9F-8/F-9J Cougar
0.41 - A-37B
0.37 - Mystère IVA
0.37 - FJ-4 Fury
0.36 - F7U-3M
0.34 - F-84F
0.33 - J-29F Tunnan
0.33 - P-80C
0.32 - Supermarine Attacker F.1
0.31 - F2H-3 Banshee
0.30 - Ouragan M.D.450B
0.30 - F3D-2 Sky Night
0.29 - Venom FB.1
0.29 - F-84G
Pure Interceptors
1.30 - Mig-31M
1.30 - Mig-31BM
1.28 - Mig-31B
1.27 - Mig-31FE
1.27 - Mig-31E
1.22 - Mig-31
1.21 - Mig-25M
1.00 - Mig-25 P & PD
0.93 - Mig-25BM
0.74 - Tu-128
Empty Weight - Thrust - Aircraft
41,447 - 31,967 X 2 - Su-35S
37,500 - 29,160 X 2 - F-15K
36,111 - 27,557 X 2 - Su-27S
24,251 - 20,000 X 2 - Eurofighter
24,251 - 19,841 X 2 - Mig-35 (23,148lbf - Emergency Thrust*)
37,192 - 27,557 X 2 - Su-27SK & J-11A
25,573 - 19,841 X 2 - Mig-29M/M2 (23,148lbf - Emergency Thrust*)
31,700 - 23,450 X 2 - F-15C
43,340 - 30,100 X 2 - F-22A(35,000lbf - Thrust with round nozzle)
39,903 - 27,557 X 2 - Su-30MKK
20,948 - 16,620 X 2 - Rafale C
29,300 - 43,000 X 1 - F-35A
24,030 - 18,300 X 2 - Mig-29B (9-12)
40,565 - 27,557 X 2 - Su-30MKI (29,321lbf - Emergency Thrust@)
24,692 - 18,300 X 2 - Mig-29 (9-13), S, SD, SE & SM
32,082 - 22,000 X 2 - F/A-18E (F/A-18F: 32,795lb)
22,478 - 16,620 X 2 - Rafale M
25,573 - 18,300 X 2 - Mig-29 BM & SMT (19,180lbf - Emergency Thrust*)
22,000 - 32,500 X 1 - F-16E Block 60
28,550 - 19,841 X 2 - Mig-29K (23,148lbf - Emergency Thrust*)
24,700 - 17,700 X 2 - F-18C
22,509 - 16,535 X 2 - J-8III(or J-8C)
32,000 - 43,000 X 1 - F-35B
43,600 - 27,800 X 2 - F-14 B & D
19,700 - 29,160 X 1 - F-16C Block 52 (Block 50: 420lb & 240lbf more)
21,671 - 15,422 X 2 - J-8IIm
14,865 - 23,400 X 1 - AV-8B+ Harrier II
21,000 - 29,600 X 1 - F-2A (F-2B: 21,235lb)
31,967 - 20,515 X 2 - JH-7
15,600 - 23,830 X 1 - F-16A Block 10
34,800 - 43,000 X 1 - F-35C
21,671 - 14,815 X 2 - J-8II & J-8IIb & J-8IId
20,394 - 28,000 X 1 - J-10A
15,708 - 23,400 X 1 - Harrier GR7A
49,163 - 28,219 X 2 - Su-34 & Su-32FN & Su-27IB
14,052 - 21,450 X 1 - Sea Harrier FA2 & FRS51
16,285 - 23,830 X 1 - F-16A Block 20
22,818 - 14,770 X 2 - Su-15T
22,553 - 28,660 X 1 - MiG-23 P, ML, MLA & MLD
15,653 - 22,000 X 1 - Gripen NG
30,328 - 17,845 X 2 - F-4E
20,470 - 13,219 X 2 - J-8
16,000 - 22,045 X 1 - Mirage 2000-5
23,970 - 14,770 X 2 - Su-15TM
28,495 - 16,900 X 2 - F-101B
15,708 - 21,450 X 1 - Harrier GR7
28,042 - 16,360 X 2 - E E Lightning F6
18,238 - 23,770 X 1 - F-16C Block 25
21,980 - 13,448 X 2 - Yak-28 I & P
47,481 - 25,100 X 2 - F-111F
46,738 - 24,692 X 2 - Su-24
22,531 - 13,669 X 2 - Su-15
16,538 - 21,384 X 1 - Mirage 2000 C & H
40,104 - 20,900 X 2 - F-14A
24,008 - 27,558 X 1 - Mig-23 MF & MS
49,163 - 24,801 X 2 - Su-24 M, MK & M2
14,300 - 09,500 X 2 - F-CK-1
14,462 - 19,100 X 1 - LCA (20,200lbf - Emergency Thrust****)
16,920 - 21,164 X 1 - Su-9
18,876 - 22,267 X 1 - Su-11
21,605 - 24,692 X 1 - Su-17M
31,970 - 16,410 X 2 - Tornado F3 Air Defence Variant
31,065 - 16,005 X 2 - Tornado GR1
21,936 - 24,692 X 1 - Su-20
14,520 - 18,300 X 1 - JF-17 (19,180lbf - Emergency Thrust*)
23,027 - 25,353 X 1 - Su-22
14,595 - 18,097 X 1 - Gripen A
18,453 - 21,164 X 1 - Su-7B
13,150 - 17,000 X 1 - F-20
14,991 - 18,097 X 1 - Gripen C
26,252 - 27,558 X 1 - Mig-27K
18,629 - 21,164 X 1 - Su-7BM
12,037 - 15,654 X 1 - Mig-21 Bis (21,829lbf - Emergency Thrust**)
27,866 - 28,100 X 1 - JA-37 Viggen
24,317 - 25,336 X 1 - Mig-27
23,369 - 24,692 X 1 - Su-17M2
24,692 - 25,336 X 1 - Mig-23BN
19,599 - 21,164 X 1 - Su-7 BKL & BMK
23,955 - 12,300 X 2 - Javelin FAW MK9
21,583 - 22,487 X 1 - Mig-23S
11,629 - 14,815 X 1 - J-7IIIa
25,573 - 25,336 X 1 - Mig-27 D & ML
22,046 - 22,487 X 1 - Mig-23M(E)
24,420 - 24,500 X 1 - F-106A
11,667 - 14,650 X 1 - F-7MG & F-7BG & F-7PG & J-7E & J-7G (WP-7N: 13,450lbf)
14,054 - 08,269 X 2 - Q-5D
17,130 - 18,750 X 1 - Kfir C.7
16,061 - 17,901 X 1 - Kfir C.2
27,006 - 25,970 X 1 - AJ-37 Viggen
11,861 - 14,650 X 1 - J-7III
11,574 - 14,308 X 1 - Mig-21SM
21,164 - 21,164 X 1 - Su-17
11,795 - 14,308 X 1 - Mig-21MF
26,014 - 24,692 X 1 - Su-17M3
12,009 - 07,165 X 2 - Mig-19S*** (MTOW: 16,667lb)
15,443 - 08,318 X 2 - Yak-27K
26,810 - 24,692 X 1 - Su-17M4
14,082 - 15,600 X 1 - F-104G
12,507 - 07,165 X 2 - Mig-19P*** (MTOW: 17,042lb)
11,354 - 13,492 X 1 - Mig-21PF
23,962 - 11,250 X 2 - Supermarine Scimitar F.1
14,550 - 15,900 X 1 - Cheetah C
11,795 - 13,613 X 1 - Mig-21M
20,723 - 09,921 X 2 - Su-25SM
15,432 - 08,040 X 2 - Jaguar GR1
17,339 - 17,262 X 1 - J-35F Draken
10,624 - 12,654 X 1 - Mig-21F
10,739 - 12,654 X 1 - Mig-21 F-13
11,850 - 13,219 X 1 - J-7II
20,944 - 09,921 X 2 - Su-25 or Su-25T
28,393 - 24,500 X 1 - F-105F/G
15,763 - 15,870 X 1 - Mirage 50
11,629 - 13,219 X 1 - F-7M(or F-7MP or F-7MB) & F-7P
14,017 - 07,305 X 2 - F-1
16,024 - 16,000 X 1 - F4D-1/F-6 Skyray
16,314 - 15,873 X 1 - Mirage F-1
19,700 - 18,000 X 1 - F-8P
19,350 - 17,200 X 1 - F-102A
27,954 - 11,240 X 2 - Sea Vixen FAW.2
23,677 - 09,921 X 2 - Su-25TM or Su-39
15,395 - 07,165 X 2 - Yak-27
16,535 - 14,770 X 1 - Yak-38M (Lift Engines: 07,165lbf X 2)
14,550 - 13,669 X 1 - Mirage-5A
16,535 - 14,680 X 1 - J-32B Lansen
10,250 - 10,800 X 1 - A-4S1
15,540 - 13,669 X 1 - Mirage-III E & D
15,476 - 13,448 X 1 - Yak-38 (Lift Engines: 06,724lbf X 2)
16,061 - 13,669 X 1 - IAI Nesher
09,558 - 05,000 X 2 - F-5E Tiger-II
20,638 - 16,000 X 1 - F-100D
25,630 - 09,300 X 2 - A-6E
19,781 - 15,000 X 1 - A-7E
14,220 - 11,265 X 1 - Super Étendard
21,287 - 14,400 X 1 - F3H-2 Demon
29,000 - 09,065 X 2 - A-10A
13,810 - 10,500 X 1 - F-11A
14,837 - 11,030 X 1 - AMX
13,007 - 09,703 X 1 - Étendard-IV M
24,200 - 07,400 X 2 - F-89D
14,087 - 09,920 X 1 - Super Mystère B.2
14,121 - 10,146 X 1 - Hunter F 6
13,658 - 04,856 X 2 - Marut Mk.1
12,610 - 04,409 X 2 - Yak-25
12,708 - 08,750 X 1 - F-94C/F-97A
11,866 - 08,500 X 1 - F9F-8/F-9J Cougar
06,211 - 02,850 X 2 - A-37B
12,941 - 07,734 X 1 - Mystère IVA
13,210 - 07,700 X 1 - FJ-4 Fury
18,210 - 04,600 X 2 - F7U-3M
13,830 - 07,220 X 1 - F-84F
10,681 - 06,070 X 1 - J-29F Tunnan
08,420 - 05,400 X 1 - P-80C
08,426 - 05,100 X 1 - Supermarine Attacker F.1
13,183 - 03,250 X 2 - F2H-3 Banshee
09,132 - 04,991 X 1 - Ouragan M.D.450B
14,989 - 03,400 X 2 - F3D-2 Sky Night
09,200 - 04,856 X 1 - Venom FB.1
11,470 - 05,560 X 1 - F-84G
Pure Interceptors
48,281 - 36,376 X 2 - Mig-31M
48,115 - 36,376 X 2 - Mig-31BM
45,569 - 34,171 X 2 - Mig-31B
49,383 - 36,376 X 2 - Mig-31FE
46,297 - 34,171 X 2 - Mig-31E
48,104 - 34,171 X 2 - Mig-31
41,667 - 29,762 X 2 - Mig-25M
41,447 - 24,684 X 2 - Mig-25 P & PD
45,415 - 24,684 X 2 - Mig-25BM
54,013 - 22,706 X 2 - Tu-128
# Data from Official Company & Military sites, Aerospaceweb.org, Airwar.ru, Globalsecurity.org, Fas.org, Warfare.ru, Wikipedia.org & its References, and Other Sources.
# Weight in lb, and Thrust in lbf.
# 3505 kg = 7727 lb
# Not all of them are Fighter Planes.
# Some of the Fighters' data couldn't be obtained, and hence could not be included in the above list.
# Individual engines' SFC(Specific Fuel Consumption) & Individual aircrafts' standard Air-Air payload weight, based TWR cannot be determined due to unavaliability of SFC data for Older Engines. Even in the case of some Newer Engines, SFC data is not avaliable.
# It's unclear whether the 35,000lbf thrust for F119(F-22's engine) is the actual thrust output. It's known that a Flat nozzle reduces the thrust of an engine anywhere between 14% to 17%. Further it's mentioned in official sources that the engine is of 35,000lbf Class, meaning the 35,000lbf number is not the precise engine output, and the actual output is somewhere around it. Generally, in official publications, when an engine output is mentioned in the form of 'Class', the actual output is less than the number given. It could be that the engine can very well produce 35,000lbf with normal nozzles during testing, but the mating of Flat Nozzle(instead of the normal Round one) reduces the thrust, hence the 'Class' designation for the engine's output. For an engine thrust decrease of 14%, F-22's TWR would drop down to 1.18. Given the fact that the F-35's engine, which is a derivative of the F-22's engine, but newer & bigger than the F119 engine, has a thrust of 39,900lbf with round nozzles, it's likely the 35,000lbf fig for F119 is also for round nozzles. F-35's engine F-135, just recently got its thrust upgraded to 43,000lbf. To further illustrate the data sheet's/brochure's failure of mentioning the loss of thrust for Flat Nozzles, the F-117's F404-GE-F1D2 engine which is a non-afterburning, flat nozzle engine[1], is mentioned as having the same 10,600lbf[2] non-afterburning thrust as the F404-GE-400 engine[3]. F404-GE-F1D2 is basically a non-afterburning F404-GE-400 engine with a flat nozzle.[4]
* Klimov States that Thrust as "Take-off emergency mode"
** The conditions for 21,829lbf Emergency Thrust are limited to 3 Minutes and Altitude less than 4000m.
*** Empty weight + 7727 lb exceeds max takeoff weight. Except Mig-19 all other less MTOW(Maximum Take-Off Weight) fighter planes are omitted.
**** Official tejas.gov.in Website claims the Thrust of F404-GE-IN20 as 20,200lbf which contradicts with the manufacturers' claim of 19,100lbf. Most likely the 20,200lbf figure is for Emergency Thrust. Also Tejas has gotten heavier by about 60kgs thus bringing its TWR to 0.86 from 0.87 .
@ Normally, Emergency Thrust is carried out at Take-off near the sea level where the air is denser. It is normally employed for scramble missions, OR/and to reduce the Take-off distance if the Aircraft is heavily loaded with fuel and munitions, OR/and if the runway is shorter. It may or may not be employed during dog-fighting, but it heavily depends upon the altitude and is time constrained(for example see **).
______________________________
Comparison of TWRs using variable weights(Full Fuel) Updated 11 Feb 2010: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrust-to-weight_ratio#Fighter_Aircraft
Old Data: http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/fighterplanes/images/articles/thrustweightratio.jpg