Russia Arms Expo 2015: Official Thread

magnumcromagnon wrote:The militarized version of the new Ural trucks?

Seems so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrzQR0iuIVk

Армейский Урал 4320-70 «Урал-М» Новый военный грузовик 2015 - Урал NEXT

magnumcromagnon wrote:Now I know why the U.S. State Dept. wants to put sanctions on Rosoboronexport...for 2015 it's order portfolio already exceeds $12 billion, which is a 10-fold increase over the past 15 years...hey Obama eat a dick!!!

"The portfolio of orders for Russian equipment exceeds $ 12 billion"

...I see sanctions being placed on Rosoboronexport as a blessing in disguise, and now Russia has no reason to maintain the MTCR agreement. MTCR treaty, just like the lame CFE treaty, was completely one-sided where Russia was abiding by the MTCR treaty, while the US were selling parts and spares for Trident ICBM's for the UK, a 'cut-and-dried' Prima Faci case of a violation of the MTCR treaty. With sanctions placed on Rosoboronexport, Russia takes one step forward to vacating the MTCR treaty!

Of course they will.. The Fagotts American elite will sanction even sanction a Donuts and cakes company in Russia "for Crimea annexation" ,if its popular and significantly help boost russia economy ,lets say that offer jobs for millions of russians..  Even if the company is private ,and have nothing to do with Putin or Russian government or Russian army,They will claim because "it contributed to destabilization of Crimea" . The american terrorist government will always invent any excuse to sabotage Russia business in the world ,and halt its nation development.
The conflict is irrelevant ..they could care less about Ukraine.. they simply do it because Fear
that a strong Russia economy will dramatically help Russia to influence their neighbors ,which Americans wants in their orbit.. and influence closer business relations with Europe. They dont sanction Russia space program.. only because they depend on it..  

Is plain an simple economic warfare , and Americans will create conflicts around Russia or inside Russia only to have an excuse to sabotage its international business relations. Thats the way
the so called "Free Marked economy" of America operates.. they will always try to sabotage
any strong economy in the world ,not aligned with their imperialism,that competes in the world with them for influence.

Russia under Putin ,from 2000 to 2008 ,managed to avoid American Economic Terrorism and Blackmail which US gov call "sanctions" because Putin acted like a Liberal and made it look he was a bit open to US imperialism..  Russia keep quiet about US false flag in 2001 inside job at WTC ,and not opposed the war in Afganistan.. remained silent and neither strongly opposed US invasion of IRAQ.. they could have easily armed the IRAquis and keep sadam hussein in Power and none of this ISIS or Alqaeda will exist today ,neither the Arab spring will exist. Taking control of IRAQ ,removing Sadam allowed americans to move to the next step that was Arab spring and Syria and later after that IRAN.  

If Russia went an opposed the IRAQ war ,in same way they did in Syria ,and provided weapons
for self defense to IRAQ to avoid their airspace being controlled ,for sure the whole invasion will have been impossible. Americans never invade any nation ,that their airforce do not control
their air space first.

Probably that was a fatal mistake of Putin , you negotiate with Criminals one time ,and allow them to do their things ,they will come later for more. Russia had to stop americans right there
in 2001 world trade center terrorist attacks..Dennounce it was an Inside Job,release satellite evidence etc.. People praise a lot Putin ,but i will not.. His fatal mistakes on his foreign policy only allowed Americans to become more arrogant.more greedy ,too powerful and to have a firm
control of Europe..  Notice how most of Europe opposed the IRAQ war and they did not get the vote at United Nations ,so they bypassed it..  It was the Perfect Opportunity for Russia to give them a vietnam war.. but they did nothing.. they were silenced with many good business deals
with Europe.  If Americans failed to created a no fly zone in IRAQ ,because of Russia help.. it will have been impossible for them to invade. and neither ISIS or Alqaeda exist as a real combat force .  Sadam for sure was a brutal dictator ,but is clear he was able to keep under control IRAQ with force.. That the only way to rule in the middle east.. being soft do not work in muslin countries..you need force and a strong dictatorship to keep radicals under control.

Probably Russia GDP will not be as big as is today ,if stopped americans earlier in 2001.. but
none of this bullshit of ISIS or Alqaeda being armed by NATO will have ever happened either.
So effectively Putin is victim of his own policies to a certain degree.. he committed the mistake of negotiation the non interference of Russia ,on American Crimes ,false flags and Invasions ,in change for Americans not interfering in Russia business with Europe for some years that is.. Now they face a new COld war that will last forever.. until any of the two countries either US or Russia cease to exist or at least its economy totally collapse and the nation disband..

I told this before but Russia strategy is wrong from 2000 to 2014 , Their cooperation with US imperialism byte them now in the Ass. and now will be far more difficult to fight Americans
with a strongly controlled Europe by them.

The money Russia spend/waste on its nuclear program since 2000 and in Russian navy,and will have invested it instead on Education system and in creating an industrial revolution what partially they doing now. That is to influence Americans not with fear of their weapons , but with innovation and technology. counter Americans not with better nukes.. and more warships but by creating an industrial revolution and compete with Americans most popular technology and become much more developed in Space.. There should be no excuse for Russia to not have already doing moon landings and Mars and Jupiter moons explorations.  Really is time for Putin to leave.. unfortunately no one exist ,that im aware in Russia that could stay away of American
traps (as ukraine is) while at the same time , creating a major industrial revolution in Russia.
Russia needs another Catherine the great.. she fully put Russia on the world map as the most influential nation in the world even more than UK . Science and education were taken to another level under her reign ,.and not allowed the hostile muslin nations like Turkey to continue expanding..and she avoided Conflicts with Europe at the same time through diplomacy.

Long story short Russia needs to counter americans with positive Influence ,that a nation industrial revolution and very aggressive space program can bring. not with more warships or nuclear bombs. That the only thing that will end the Cold war . When Europe see Russia as a real alternative to USA at least in the most important technology. Instead of Russia projecting Power which is retarded stupid, Russia needs to project innovation and being the world most advanced technology nation. If Japan and Germany could do it..with half the citizens and far less territory , i dont see why Russia cant. This does not means going to the extremes of not having an Army or Defense Industry.. only keep your military good enough for Russia defense and not for projecting bullshit far away of your lands.. or showing that Russia have a bigger nuclear bombs.. this is pure idiocy. Why i think is time for someone else to replace Putin.. his short vision will only lead to a major war with Americans.. He is good in diplomacy ,but knows very little on how to better influence developed nations into their orbit ,which is why no one in Europe or America takes them seriously.. only the the rejected club of nations in middle east or Asia and others that no ones wants to integrate . The new changes Russia is doing in their Import Substitution program is not good enough to create the changes Russia needs to become
a real alternative to USA. For the only reason Russia is lucky ,and not totally isolated , only because Americans are doing everything possible to make miserable the lives of its European friends. So the bad policy of americans help Russia to avoid totally being isolated from the world .

Very nice.. RAE 2015 combat video.. (DAY 2) must see..

zg18 wrote:Belarus ordered unknown numbers of BTR-82s at RAE.

That is good that they are also slowly starting to update their arsenal. Felt kinda bad for them during the last Victory Day parade in Minsk. For every piece of equipment that Minsk paraded, Russia followed with something much better and more advanced.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:That is good that they are also slowly starting to update their arsenal. Felt kinda bad for them during the last Victory Day parade in Minsk. For every piece of equipment that Minsk paraded, Russia followed with something much better and more advanced.

I wouldn`t be too harsh , compared to Ukraine , Belarus armed forces are well maintained plus they actually have some nice things going on right now.

ДТ3ПМ

http://vestnik-rm.ru/index.php?module=news&act=show&c=4&id=13417

zg18 wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:That is good that they are also slowly starting to update their arsenal. Felt kinda bad for them during the last Victory Day parade in Minsk. For every piece of equipment that Minsk paraded, Russia followed with something much better and more advanced.

I wouldn`t be too harsh , compared to Ukraine , Belarus armed forces are well maintained plus they actually have some nice things going on right now.

Not trying to be harsh. It still must be disappointing to have your neighbor to have to one up you in your own parade. Belarus is a bit outdated as of now but they are definitely moving in the right direction.

Russia Arms Expo and Army forum may merge — tank manufacturer CEO

The idea is being discussed in the Russian government

NIZHNY TAGIL, September 11. /TASS-DEFENSE/. The Russian Defense Ministry and government are mulling over a merger of the Russia Arms Expo (RAE) arms show traditionally held in Nizhny Tagil and the Army military technical forum first conducted in June in the Moscow Region, Uralvagonzavod Director General Oleg Siyenko told TASS on Friday.

"The idea [to merge the shows] exists and is being a subject of discussion in the Russian Defense Ministry and in the Russian government," he said.

Siyenko emphasized that RAE is unique: "Nowhere in the world have they demonstrated military hardware that leaves test benches right to firing ranges." "Exhibitors mostly bring mock-ups. I have not seen a show where the organizers demonstrated exhibits on the move. The characteristics displayed in posters are not the same as hardware," he stressed.

Earlier, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said the ministry believed that RAE was a success. Commenting on media reports that the show in the Urals could be discontinued in favor of the Army forum, Borisov stressed that RAE was held under the aegis of the Russian Industry and Trade Ministry and that the Defense Ministry was not in a position to "terminate it or not". He admitted, though, that the subjects of arms shows "overlap" indeed.

Nizhny Tagil has hosted RAE for the 10th time. The event has been attended by about 250 Russian and foreign defense contractors. The arms show is dedicated to Army military hardware.

Russia to Create Next Generation Unmanned Combat Module – Developer

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150912/1026912284.html#ixzz3lWGAOAbx

PapaDragon wrote:
Russia to Create Next Generation Unmanned Combat Module – Developer

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150912/1026912284.html#ixzz3lWGAOAbx

Woah, Woah guys hold your horses, finish first K25 and Armata till the end and then start developing replacement huh... There is plenty of work to be done on those two... and they are supposed to serve for 20 years at least, this guy is rushing big time.

Militarov wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Russia to Create Next Generation Unmanned Combat Module – Developer

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150912/1026912284.html#ixzz3lWGAOAbx

Woah, Woah guys hold your horses, finish first K25 and Armata till the end and then start developing replacement huh... There is plenty of work to be done on those two... and they are supposed to serve for 20 years at least, this guy is rushing big time.

They're not gonna replace them, from what i gather they are going to develop new unmanned turrets for them which makes sense, besides the K-25 is still missing a BAKHCHA-U like turret.

And from what i hear these systems are suppose to serve for 50 years not 20.

Unmanned module seem to carry a bit border sense


[quote]http://rg.ru/2015/09/10/reg-urfo/vityaz.html[
On RAE-2015 showed BMP, managed remotely and without crew

A curious exhibit showcased weapons RAE-2015 in Nizhny Tagil concern from the Kurgan region, such as the public showed BMP-3 with the "Vityaz". These fighting machines are able to conduct network-centric warfare and be controlled remotely.


This is a system with all-weather digital network-centric system of fire control. The idea of development is that the unit commander may direct the actions of BMP remotely - moving machines, give the task to defeat the purpose several machines simultaneously and each separately, without the participation of the crew.

- They do not just operate at a distance, but are linked together and perform a single task. The car 357 as an example for exhibition stand system of the circular review - around the perimeter of the installed cameras. This means that all actuators can be controlled remotely by the commander sees a high resolution picture of what is going on next to the BMP, while remaining in the headquarters, - has told to the correspondent "RG" the representative of the developer company. - The machine itself chooses the target and leads by her fire, the crew need only to load the gun and to protect the machine against immediate threats. For example, the BMP performs fire the task to defeat the purpose, which, by the way, can "get it" at a distance of 7 kilometers. At this point, the crew is attacked. Then the troops can dismount and fight, and the technique will continue to carry out her task.

Interestingly, the commander may command the BMP back into place, even if, for example, the entire crew was killed. The technique itself will determine the route and will return "to its".

- Technically it is possible, but this feature was not implemented. If the customer will have such a desire, we will be able to equip the BMP-3 with the "hero" of this ability, the source noted.

It only made sense to provide a remotely controlled weapon station capability in the event of failure of the electronic systems of manual control equipment. If that happens, the soldier can continue to shoot at targets through normal sight.

The problem is that the piloting of the aircraft was much easier than ground vehicles. Because in the air there is no obstacle, aerodynamic laws studied very well. As for the earth, the technique can confuse a three-meter hole with a puddle, and the car just fall in. Therefore, the Marines continue to track the movement of a combat vehicle.


/quote]

Militarov wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Russia to Create Next Generation Unmanned Combat Module – Developer

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150912/1026912284.html#ixzz3lWGAOAbx

Woah, Woah guys hold your horses, finish first K25 and Armata till the end and then start developing replacement huh... There is plenty of work to be done on those two... and they are supposed to serve for 20 years at least, this guy is rushing big time.

*Combat module* not combat vehicle. There's a significant difference there.

AlfaT8 wrote:

Militarov wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Russia to Create Next Generation Unmanned Combat Module – Developer

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150912/1026912284.html#ixzz3lWGAOAbx

Woah, Woah guys hold your horses, finish first K25 and Armata till the end and then start developing replacement huh... There is plenty of work to be done on those two... and they are supposed to serve for 20 years at least, this guy is rushing big time.

They're not gonna replace them, from what i gather they are going to develop new unmanned turrets for them which makes sense, besides the K-25 is still missing a BAKHCHA-U like turret.

And from what i hear these systems are suppose to serve for 50 years not 20.

"We are currently working on a more effective version of unmanned combat modules for armored fighting vehicles, which will replace the infantry fighting vehicle T-15 on the Armata platform, Kurganets-25 infantry fighting vehicle and Bumerang armored personnel carrier" - This is what their "source" said, which doesnt have much sense tbh. And i said "at least 20", i doubt K25 will really reach 50 years service time tbh, i mean.. maybe but still questionable.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Militarov wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Russia to Create Next Generation Unmanned Combat Module – Developer

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150912/1026912284.html#ixzz3lWGAOAbx

Woah, Woah guys hold your horses, finish first K25 and Armata till the end and then start developing replacement huh... There is plenty of work to be done on those two... and they are supposed to serve for 20 years at least, this guy is rushing big time.

*Combat module* not combat vehicle. There's a significant difference there.

I am well aware that they said "module" however see what article says "We are currently working on a more effective version of unmanned combat modules for armored fighting vehicles, which will replace the infantry fighting vehicle T-15 on the Armata platform, Kurganets-25 infantry fighting vehicle and Bumerang armored personnel carrier", so its either lost in translation or they made a misstype, coz in current form it does not make much sense.

Militarov wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Militarov wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Russia to Create Next Generation Unmanned Combat Module – Developer

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150912/1026912284.html#ixzz3lWGAOAbx

Woah, Woah guys hold your horses, finish first K25 and Armata till the end and then start developing replacement huh... There is plenty of work to be done on those two... and they are supposed to serve for 20 years at least, this guy is rushing big time.

*Combat module* not combat vehicle. There's a significant difference there.

I am well aware that they said "module" however see what article says "We are currently working on a more effective version of unmanned combat modules for armored fighting vehicles, which will replace the infantry fighting vehicle T-15 on the Armata platform, Kurganets-25 infantry fighting vehicle and Bumerang armored personnel carrier", so its either lost in translation or they made a misstype, coz in current form it does not make much sense.

They're basically saying they're improving the concept of a unmanned module...nothing more to it.

I am well aware that they said "module" however see what article says "We are currently working on a more effective version of unmanned combat modules for armored fighting vehicles, which will replace the infantry fighting vehicle T-15 on the Armata platform, Kurganets-25 infantry fighting vehicle and Bumerang armored personnel carrier", so its either lost in translation or they made a misstype, coz in current form it does not make much sense.

They're basically saying they're improving the concept of a unmanned module...nothing more to it.

My point is that its not what is written there . They miss one "turret" or "combat module on" in that sentence to make sense, whoever was translating it was sleepy or something

Sputnik strikes again...

I suspect that they are referencing the future turrets, like the heavy Epoch with the 57 mm grenade launcher. There might be other variants as well. 

I doubt that there will be a larger caliber option like the BMP-3, because the rounds are too large.

Mike E wrote:Sputnik strikes again...

I suspect that they are referencing the future turrets, like the heavy Epoch with the 57 mm grenade launcher. There might be other variants as well. 

I doubt that there will be a larger caliber option like the BMP-3, because the rounds are too large.

57 seems to be good compromise between firepower, versatility and ammo storage. Some time Gur Khan presented article about 57mm programmable ammo for both AAD and antipersonnel applications. For example slower (700m/s vs 1000/s) round can carry as much explosives as 76mm one. Besides anti armor ammo 57 vs. 30 is juts in another class. Combining with high elevation angle gives good both AAD city fight capabilities. I cannot imagine Cobra or Apache in the air after hit of 57mm round..

I'm more excited about a possible future APFSDS. IIRC it would have something over 200 mm of penetration, or better according to claims. 

57 mm airburst would be nice as well; certainly enough to harm your average helicopter.

Mike E wrote:I'm more excited about a possible future APFSDS. IIRC it would have something over 200 mm of penetration, or better according to claims. 

57 mm airburst would be nice as well; certainly enough to harm your average helicopter.

57mm APFSDS mmmmm....tasty.

Mike E wrote:I'm more excited about a possible future APFSDS. IIRC it would have something over 200 mm of penetration, or better according to claims. 

57 mm airburst would be nice as well; certainly enough to harm your average helicopter.

Projectile of 57mm ZiS-2 from 1941 could penetrate 190mm so 200mm is not much progress :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/57_mm_anti-tank_gun_M1943_%28ZiS-2%29

But for any IVF, APC or helo 57mm is more than enough for nearest future. BTW BMP-3 needs no 100mm/30mm combo anymore. 1 module 57mm with t200 rounds will do the job

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Mike E wrote:I'm more excited about a possible future APFSDS. IIRC it would have something over 200 mm of penetration, or better according to claims. 

57 mm airburst would be nice as well; certainly enough to harm your average helicopter.

Projectile of 57mm ZiS-2 from 1941 could penetrate  190mm so 200mm is not much progress :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/57_mm_anti-tank_gun_M1943_%28ZiS-2%29

But for any IVF, APC or helo 57mm is more than enough for nearest future.  BTW BMP-3 needs no  100mm/30mm combo anymore.  1 module 57mm with t200 rounds will do the job

Check the distances in that table, 100m distance for 190mm you mentioned, here we are talking about some serious distance.

Militarov wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Mike E wrote:I'm more excited about a possible future APFSDS. IIRC it would have something over 200 mm of penetration, or better according to claims. 

57 mm airburst would be nice as well; certainly enough to harm your average helicopter.

Projectile of 57mm ZiS-2 from 1941 could penetrate  190mm so 200mm is not much progress :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/57_mm_anti-tank_gun_M1943_%28ZiS-2%29

But for any IVF, APC or helo 57mm is more than enough for nearest future.  BTW BMP-3 needs no  100mm/30mm combo anymore.  1 module 57mm with t200 rounds will do the job

Check the distances in that table, 100m distance for 190mm you mentioned, here we are talking about some serious distance.

Well Mike E did not mention about any of distances BTW ZiS-2 could penetrate 147mm from 500m

^ That is correct.

If we are talking about a new APFSDS at muzzle, the figure of penetration could be closer to 300 mm.