The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

whir wrote:

Khepesh wrote:And this news about Greece beginning to evacuate ethnic Greeks from Mariupol. It's been occupied by ukrops for more than a year, come close to being taken last September, yet only now they evacuate. Does not make sense unless Athens is sure there is going to be a war soon, perhaps started by a massive black flag operation against Mariupol civilians.

Greece rejected alyssum for ethnic Greeks based on sketchy grounds several times before so probably most applicants have all the needed paperwork and comply with even the most absurd demands from Athens.

From one failed state to the next. Viva la West!

JohninMK wrote:What, no red lines for Kiev? We have a new phrase as well, 'fake elections'. Still not sure how they threaten Minsk tho'.

KIEV, August 25. /TASS/. Talks between leaders of Germany, France and Ukraine in Berlin on Monday focused on "red lines" Russia must not cross, a senior Ukrainian administration official said on Tuesday. "It is very important that we have discussed red lines that, if crossed, could prompt a resolute reaction from the international community, including the European Union, and this refers not only to sanctions," Konstantin Yeliseyev, deputy head of Ukraine's presidential administration, told a news briefing in Kiev.

Yeliseyev did not specify what kind of "red lines" had been set. "This information is not yet in the public domain," he said, noting however that "one of these lines" was "holding fake elections" in east Ukraine’s self-proclaimed republics of Donetsk and Luhansk. Russia "should exert pressure" on leaders of the Donetsk and Luhansk republics so that "they prevent or cancel such elections", Yeliseyev said. If local elections take place, he added, "they will not be recognized, posing a serious threat to the Minsk process."

"Red Lines" what a load of propaganda, the meeting was a non-productive stunt. A flimsy cover story for the Kiev buildup at the contact line in Donbass. Russia would be the one that draws the "Red Lines" not bankrupt Ukraine.

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:Maidan gets first batch of coal from Russia in September. Not sure if for free. This is an emergency supply to prevent economic collapse in Ukraine. If Maidan collapses, then fascists would oust Poroshenko.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/centrenergo-to-get-first-batches-of-russian-coal-by-sept-396527.html

http://sputniknews.com/business/20150825/1026178692/ukraine-russia-coal.html

Did Russia do this as a gesture of goodwill?

It would be disastrous for Russia if Ukraine collapses economically. Fascists would take over. Russia will never ever allow Ukraine to collapse economically.

France and Germany threaten Zacharchenko not obeying Ukraine local elections in October. We know Zackarchenko will never carry out Ukraine elections in October. All hell will break loose in October.

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-says-eu-ready-toughen-stance-against-russia-174539192.html

More buildup.

So it looks like the eu are happy to ignore the ukrops breaking the minsk agreements left right and centre yet are insistent about these elections. I guess the berlin meeting was about using the elections as leverage, if the rebels dont hold them (which they shouldnt due to ukies not following the treaty) russia and the rebels will of course be blamed for abandoning the agreements.

I still think the ukies need to beaten to a bloody pulp again so they understand who is boss. They are far too cocky for my liking.

The October elections is the main part of Minsk 2. Zackarchenko will not do it. So Minsk 2 dies in October. Both sides are getting ready for war in October.

Khepesh wrote:Here are the huge crowds in Kharkov last night celebrating "Independance Day", so many it is like counting grains of sand on a beach, and the brightness of the mood shines out of the photo so happy is the vast multitude.

Man that is a pathetic scene. I bet that must of stung a lot of the Pro PUkrainian folks.

Rodinazombie wrote:So it looks like the eu are happy to ignore the ukrops breaking the minsk agreements left right and centre yet are insistent about these elections. I guess the berlin meeting was about using the elections as leverage, if the rebels dont hold them (which they shouldnt due to ukies not following the treaty) russia and the rebels will of course be blamed for abandoning the agreements.

I still think the ukies need to beaten to a bloody pulp again so they understand who is boss. They are far too cocky for my liking.

I think after the meeting tomorrow we'll know. Hopefully they'll get outmaneuvered.

sepheronx wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Here are the huge crowds in Kharkov last night celebrating "Independance Day", so many it is like counting grains of sand on a beach, and the brightness of the mood shines out of the photo so happy is the vast multitude.

Man that is a pathetic scene.  I bet that must of stung a lot of the Pro PUkrainian folks.

Depends on what time the photo was taken, there is no clues as to how bit the gathering was at it's peak, the photo could be before or after.

Erk wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Here are the huge crowds in Kharkov last night celebrating "Independance Day", so many it is like counting grains of sand on a beach, and the brightness of the mood shines out of the photo so happy is the vast multitude.

Man that is a pathetic scene.  I bet that must of stung a lot of the Pro PUkrainian folks.

Depends on what time the photo was taken, there is no clues as to how bit the gathering was at it's peak, the photo could be before or after.

Here's another one. Can't seem to find anything else indicating a bigger crowd... maybe the Ministry of Truth will cook something up for us soon.

OminousSpudd wrote:
Here's another one. Can't seem to find anything else indicating a bigger crowd... maybe the Ministry of Truth will cook something up for us soon.

OSCE said 200:

The SMM observed Independence Day celebrations in Kharkiv (200 people attended)

Flagship Victory wrote:

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:Maidan gets first batch of coal from Russia in September. Not sure if for free. This is an emergency supply to prevent economic collapse in Ukraine. If Maidan collapses, then fascists would oust Poroshenko.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/centrenergo-to-get-first-batches-of-russian-coal-by-sept-396527.html

http://sputniknews.com/business/20150825/1026178692/ukraine-russia-coal.html

Did Russia do this as a gesture of goodwill?

It would be disastrous for Russia if Ukraine collapses economically. Fascists would take over. Russia will never ever allow Ukraine to collapse economically.

Last I checked it is August 2015 not November 2013.

Flagship Victory wrote:It would be disastrous for Russia if Ukraine collapses economically. Fascists would take over. Russia will never ever allow Ukraine to collapse economically.

I think you are being fairly unrealistic here. In fact Ukraine is collapsing since many months, but Russia is not, even suffering additional sanctions. Then, there is not better contrast than the current reality to prove how wrong is your first sentence.

Dforce wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:
Here's another one. Can't seem to find anything else indicating a bigger crowd... maybe the Ministry of Truth will cook something up for us soon.

OSCE said 200:

The SMM observed Independence Day celebrations in Kharkiv (200 people attended)

That'd be about right. Was that including security and entertainment?

eehnie wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:It would be disastrous for Russia if Ukraine collapses economically. Fascists would take over. Russia will never ever allow Ukraine to collapse economically.

I think you are being fairly unrealistic here. In fact Ukraine is collapsing since many months, but Russia is not, even suffering additional sanctions. Then, there is not better contrast than the current reality to prove how wrong is your first sentence.

Had it not been for the winter package from Russia, Ukraine would have collapsed last winter. It is not in Russia's interest for Ukraine to collapse.

OminousSpudd wrote:

Dforce wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:
Here's another one. Can't seem to find anything else indicating a bigger crowd... maybe the Ministry of Truth will cook something up for us soon.

OSCE said 200:

The SMM observed Independence Day celebrations in Kharkiv (200 people attended)

That'd be about right. Was that including security and entertainment?

I'd bet... You know best not have any more pesky SBU Agents Kharkov Partizans detonating IEDs....

Flagship Victory wrote:

eehnie wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:It would be disastrous for Russia if Ukraine collapses economically. Fascists would take over. Russia will never ever allow Ukraine to collapse economically.

I think you are being fairly unrealistic here. In fact Ukraine is collapsing since many months, but Russia is not, even suffering additional sanctions. Then, there is not better contrast than the current reality to prove how wrong is your first sentence.

Had it not been for the winter package from Russia, Ukraine would have collapsed last winter. It is not in Russia's interest for Ukraine to collapse.

The help of Russia to the citizens of Ukraine is clearly diplomatic. It has not economic purposes.

Okay so where is Zackarchenko now? I think Zackarchenko needs to be careful. If he does hold his own local elections on October 18 in violation of Minsk 2, he might end up dead killed by GRU just like what happened to Bednov and Mozgovoi.

Zackarchenko mentioned setting up arms industry in Donbas to stop relying on Russia for arms. Zackarchenko does not share Putin's vision of staying as part of Ukraine.

Flagship Victory wrote:France and Germany threaten Zacharchenko not obeying Ukraine local elections in October. We know Zackarchenko will never carry out Ukraine elections in October. All hell will break loose in October.

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-says-eu-ready-toughen-stance-against-russia-174539192.html

In every one your posts you mention "elections, elections elections", did you consider that there a plan in place by the NAF and Russia.