The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

Khepesh wrote:Kiev denied that VVS had made an incursion into Ukraine airspace today. But the reports from Schastye originated from an ex Kiev junta minister who is now a "soldier" at the front at Schastye. If the reports from Gorlovka are true, then I would think that perhaps if any aircraft were flying then they were UAF and for some reason they deny it, and Russia is silent. The ex minister, Dmitry Bulatov, was unable to say what type of aircraft he saw, so I doubt that he would have been able to see what markings they had, if they existed.

World works in odd ways. There was talk of "where is Zakharchenko" then a few hours later he is said to have been in Debaltsevo talking about coal and food production and distribution. Perhaps at the same time Plotnitskiy was a few km along the road in Stakhanov talking about Aleksei Grigorevich.....     Anyway, also talk of "where is Pavel Dremov" and now he appears to talk about possibility of massive provocation by ukrops. So, where is Zhukov? and lets wait to see when he appears, soon.....

Neutrality wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Kiev denied that VVS had made an incursion into Ukraine airspace today. But the reports from Schastye originated from an ex Kiev junta minister who is now a "soldier" at the front at Schastye. If the reports from Gorlovka are true, then I would think that perhaps if any aircraft were flying then they were UAF and for some reason they deny it, and Russia is silent. The ex minister, Dmitry Bulatov, was unable to say what type of aircraft he saw, so I doubt that he would have been able to see what markings they had, if they existed.

World works in odd ways. There was talk of "where is Zakharchenko" then a few hours later he is said to have been in Debaltsevo talking about coal and food production and distribution. Perhaps at the same time Plotnitskiy was a few km along the road in Stakhanov talking about Aleksei Grigorevich.....     Anyway, also talk of "where is Pavel Dremov" and now he appears to talk about possibility of massive provocation by ukrops. So, where is Zhukov? and lets wait to see when he appears, soon.....

Ukrops testing Donbass' air space to see if they get locked on maybe? Just to be sure whether or not the NAF have AA capability. I guess the Ukrops know they do but perhaps they want to know where precisely.

Khepesh wrote:Reports of mysterious aircraft were more widespread than I said in my initial post as there were also reports from Pervomaisk and along the front, also photos of obvious contrails over Lugansk. Everybody denies everything of course.

sepheronx wrote:German science industry was thriving during the war. Maybe just the byproduct. Germany was already bankrupt due to the damages and economic blockade after the first world war. Effectively, they became a successful autarky.

Khepesh wrote:Reports of mysterious aircraft were more widespread than I said in my initial post as there were also reports from Pervomaisk and along the front, also photos of obvious contrails over Lugansk. Everybody denies everything of course.

sepheronx wrote:

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:

sepheronx wrote:German science industry was thriving during the war. Maybe just the byproduct. Germany was already bankrupt due to the damages and economic blockade after the first world war. Effectively, they became a successful autarky.

German science industry? What the hell is that?

Nazis completely crippled German science. The golden age of German science was during the Imperial and Weimar era when German universities were considered the best in the world and produced most (75% or more) of all Noble Prize winners. When Nazis came to power all universities became highly politicized, entire fields of study were banned (quantum mechanics, replaced by pseudoscientifi "Aryan physics") and 1/3 of intellectual elite (Jews) was either killed or fled. Main scientific advancements of Nazis were in arms design - and little besides that.

So that is why German scientists were so sought after the war? Face it, German science was a powerhouse (more so then than now). Father of US space program, look him up.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:the mail online doing its lil' magic.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3205754/Blood-oozed-soil-grave-sites-pits-alive-secrets-Ukraine-s-shameful-Holocaust-Bullets-killing-centre-1-6million-Jews-executed.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline

Right on time for Ukropia Galore!

Interesting article. Conspicuous by its absence is virtually any comment on the activities of the local non Jews in this operation. It didn't take them long to close comments on it!

A sign of what was to come under the Germans was seen in the Lviv Pogrom of June 1941 immediately after the Nazi entered the city after pushing out the Red Army. A Ukrainian mob, eagerly backed by the new occupiers, stripped and beat Jewish women in the streets who were subjected to public humiliation. This was part of an orgy of anti-Semitic violence that included beatings and killings which led to the deaths of 4,000 Jews in Lviv (also known as Lvov), which is 31 miles south-east of Rava Ruska.

'The topic of the Holocaust was almost banned in Soviet times,' Mikhail Tyaglyy, historian of the Ukrainian Centre of Holocaust Study, told MailOnline.

For modern Ukraine the subject is difficult, too, because it means admitting a role for nationalists in colluding the Nazis, in part because some preferred a German occupation to Stalin's as the lesser of two evils. Soviet history neglected the anti-Semitic aspect of the Jewish killings, lumping these deaths together with total losses in the USSR.


Then there is this, my highlight.


'It is true that the local population did cooperate with German Nazis in the occupied territories but the majority of them were ethnic Russian.

'Russia makes a point about Ukrainian nationalists because it is keen to divert suspicion from itself.'

The notion of Ukrainian nationalists colluding with the Nazis was a vivid horror played on by Soviet propaganda, and now seized on again by the Russian authorities in branding 'fascist' those who currently want to be outside Moscow's sphere of control.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3205754/Blood-oozed-soil-grave-sites-pits-alive-secrets-Ukraine-s-shameful-Holocaust-Bullets-killing-centre-1-6million-Jews-executed.html#ixzz3jmA4CZwm

Yeah that's why i posted the link. they should make up their mind. Majority of Ukrainains are Ethnic Russians or Ukraine is actually Russia.

We are touching the topic of Ukrainian nationalism here and it is a complicated matter. The situation in Ukraine was not so different to what was going on in other Soviet regions which were occupied by Nazis - everywhere they relied on local nationalists, who often blamed Jews for supporting the "Moscow-Bolshevik regime", as they said at the time. 'Such attitude easily inspired pogroms as we had in Western Ukraine. 'The Nazis did their best to inspire pogroms everywhere they came. But pogroms is one thing, and systematic extermination of the Jewish population which was organised purely by the German Nazis is another. 'It is true that radical nationalists helped Nazis in guarding and performed other tasks. But Nazis did not trust mass killing of Jews to locals.' wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:Okay so where is Zackarchenko?

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Neutrality wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Kiev denied that VVS had made an incursion into Ukraine airspace today. But the reports from Schastye originated from an ex Kiev junta minister who is now a "soldier" at the front at Schastye. If the reports from Gorlovka are true, then I would think that perhaps if any aircraft were flying then they were UAF and for some reason they deny it, and Russia is silent. The ex minister, Dmitry Bulatov, was unable to say what type of aircraft he saw, so I doubt that he would have been able to see what markings they had, if they existed.

World works in odd ways. There was talk of "where is Zakharchenko" then a few hours later he is said to have been in Debaltsevo talking about coal and food production and distribution. Perhaps at the same time Plotnitskiy was a few km along the road in Stakhanov talking about Aleksei Grigorevich.....     Anyway, also talk of "where is Pavel Dremov" and now he appears to talk about possibility of massive provocation by ukrops. So, where is Zhukov? and lets wait to see when he appears, soon.....

Ukrops testing Donbass' air space to see if they get locked on maybe? Just to be sure whether or not the NAF have AA capability. I guess the Ukrops know they do but perhaps they want to know where precisely.

Probably a recon flight (Su24), probing could be a possibility.

JohninMK wrote:What, no red lines for Kiev? We have a new phrase as well, 'fake elections'. Still not sure how they threaten Minsk tho'.

KIEV, August 25. /TASS/. Talks between leaders of Germany, France and Ukraine in Berlin on Monday focused on "red lines" Russia must not cross, a senior Ukrainian administration official said on Tuesday. "It is very important that we have discussed red lines that, if crossed, could prompt a resolute reaction from the international community, including the European Union, and this refers not only to sanctions," Konstantin Yeliseyev, deputy head of Ukraine's presidential administration, told a news briefing in Kiev.

Yeliseyev did not specify what kind of "red lines" had been set. "This information is not yet in the public domain," he said, noting however that "one of these lines" was "holding fake elections" in east Ukraine’s self-proclaimed republics of Donetsk and Luhansk. Russia "should exert pressure" on leaders of the Donetsk and Luhansk republics so that "they prevent or cancel such elections", Yeliseyev said. If local elections take place, he added, "they will not be recognized, posing a serious threat to the Minsk process."

Flagship Victory wrote:

JohninMK wrote:What, no red lines for Kiev? We have a new phrase as well, 'fake elections'. Still not sure how they threaten Minsk tho'.

KIEV, August 25. /TASS/. Talks between leaders of Germany, France and Ukraine in Berlin on Monday focused on "red lines" Russia must not cross, a senior Ukrainian administration official said on Tuesday. "It is very important that we have discussed red lines that, if crossed, could prompt a resolute reaction from the international community, including the European Union, and this refers not only to sanctions," Konstantin Yeliseyev, deputy head of Ukraine's presidential administration, told a news briefing in Kiev.

Yeliseyev did not specify what kind of "red lines" had been set. "This information is not yet in the public domain," he said, noting however that "one of these lines" was "holding fake elections" in east Ukraine’s self-proclaimed republics of Donetsk and Luhansk. Russia "should exert pressure" on leaders of the Donetsk and Luhansk republics so that "they prevent or cancel such elections", Yeliseyev said. If local elections take place, he added, "they will not be recognized, posing a serious threat to the Minsk process."

So in other words, they'll say Zacharkenko's election on October 18 is fake and that ends Minsk 2.

flamming_python wrote:Yes but in actuality what you're hoping for is that Russia cancels these elections so that you can scream B3TRAYAL!! again, just like you did over Russia stopping Novorussia after Debaltsevo (which you only started talking about when it was clear that the offensive stopping is exactly what was about to hapen), and before that over the Minsk agreement.

Monarchist you're a barrel of laughs mate

Khepesh wrote:And this news about Greece beginning to evacuate ethnic Greeks from Mariupol. It's been occupied by ukrops for more than a year, come close to being taken last September, yet only now they evacuate. Does not make sense unless Athens is sure there is going to be a war soon, perhaps started by a massive black flag operation against Mariupol civilians.