Syrian Air Defence Force

Is the domestic Russian market big enough to justify BIG investments in the semiconductor sector ? NO .

Does Russia have it's own customised alternative to Microsoft WINDOWS ? NO .

Once the USSR ceased to exist, Russia's human resource limitations began to show up in a big way & that's why today it is importing UAVs from Israel & LPDs from France. Acquiring industrial manufacturing capabilities is the very easy part; possessing the scientific manpower & skilled/experienced human resources required for business innovations is an entirely different challenge

Therefore in these areas Russia today is decades behind even Israel, leave alone the West.

Is evident that your same mindset is effectively arranged around western vision of technological relevant achievements.

US has always stressed on information-related technology and on the electronic components necessary for its processing (above all for its civil commercial potential among its European "Allies-Colony) ; here this approach has been always considered near to irrelevant under a strict Hard Scientific evolution's point of view.

The same fact that you ask for a domestic corresponding of....... Window      speak volume on the degree of laughable, self-referential, intellectual corruption now so common in western public opinion; this was perfectly clear already from your previous "fetishist" question on "AESA radar" for Su-24 , when you was obviously also unaware that no western bomber too has ever had any AESA radar mounted !!      

Exactly how many Nobel Prizes in physical sciences or applied mathematics has either the USSR or Russia won to date?

Hope you have realized that in such scientific matters Russia's performance is only better than Asian countries like China , India and Africa .

Ohh...Another self-revealing assertion.

In a word : Nobel is a WESTERN prize, clear ?  

It was mostly monopolized by European winners  before the WWII and mostly monopolized by US winners in the Cold War (just following the sudden shift of balance of influence, in West world, toward USA in the after-war   ); in substance it was one of the several means for propagandistic  image's self-promotion in Cold War  - including the few prizes conceded for self-validation to scientists of the enemy block     -  

I don't know what place occupy Nobel prize in your mind ,but here it was then ,and it is still today, considered no more no less than a Western prize .....on which moreover circulate a lot of jokes in domestic Institutes   .

In general when a Soviet scientist ,in Cold War (or a Russian one today) was awarded this prize, it was exclusively for achievements capable to completely revolutionize a sector and only after that its publications was translated and "adopted" in the West and/or when the scientist in question had begun to collaborate with western scientific Institutes  

The latest example of that comical habit (perfectly justifying the domestic jokes circulating on this western prize  ) is the Nobel awarded to Андрей К. Гейм and Константи́н С. Новосёлов for the synthesis of the revolutionary Graphene.

You could bet, without any risk, that the same achievements and publications ,if both of them would have remained theirs life at MIPT , wouldn't have earned for any of them not even a nominate for Nobel prize  

I can assure you that, with some exceptions, publications of majority of western "controlled" winners of this prize, if was published in domestic Academic journals, wouldn’t have gained for the author or its Institute not even only the mention for the Lenin or State prize !!    

MEADS will replace Patriot missiles in the United States, the older Hawk system in Germany, and Italy’s Nike Hercules missiles .

You are evidently very badly informed  

Rare pics of Syrian Pantsir-S1



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Original Source (including pics of T-72 and BMP-2): http://i-korotchenko.livejournal.com/625377.html
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Mindstorm wrote:Is evident that your same mindset is effectively arranged around western vision of technological relevant achievements.

US has always stressed on information-related technology and on the electronic components necessary for its processing (above all for its civil commercial potential among its European "Allies-Colony) ; here this approach has been always considered near to irrelevant under a strict Hard Scientific evolution's point of view

Do you realize that much of your outburst is devoid of any evidence ? What's your definition of "Hard Scientific evolution" . Such patronizing is self defeating . For the record even the civilian jets that Russia makes are a generation behind Airbus & Boeing . Your jets are more renowned for their crashes .

Mindstorm wrote:In general when a Soviet scientist ,in Cold War (or a Russian one today) was awarded this prize, it was exclusively for achievements capable to completely revolutionize a sector and only after that its publications was translated and "adopted" in the West and/or when the scientist in question had begun to collaborate with western scientific Institutes  

And which area have Soviet scientists completely revolutionized ? I have witnessed experiments here where trojans have been inserted into EW systems of adversaries , IP addresses of individuals have been remotely flipped and even manipulated ( this is the very basic expected from us employees) and utilities brought to a standstill . And we did not just do it only in some 3rd world nations like India , China , Iran etc .

Cyberspec wrote:Rare pics of Syrian Pantsir-S1

That's my point . Syria had these and yet were unable to take out the Israeli F 16s . Clearly proves that the Pantsir is in effective against aircrafts with great EW systems like the F 16.

http://www.armstass.su/?page=article&aid=118776&cid=25

Putin -S-300 NOT delivered to Syria.

Interfax military reports that Syrian AD troops are in Russia - you must pay to open link

Story is interesting and I expect to popup somewhere else.

Syrian air defense officers being trained in Russia - source

Viktor wrote:Interfax military reports that Syrian AD troops are in Russia - you must pay to open link

Story is interesting and I expect to popup somewhere else.

Syrian air defense officers being trained in Russia - source

What source, where's the link??

AlfaT8 wrote:What source, where's the link??

"Interfax military"

http://www.militarynews.ru/EMAIN.ASP

Nice article among many others lately about the issue
S-300: NATO’s nightmare and perhaps Russia’s too

Viktor wrote:Nice article among many others lately about the issue
S-300: NATO’s nightmare and perhaps Russia’s too

I love how the comment is a jewish guy saying that it is easy to do EW against the system. Of course they like to dream about it, even when in the article, they explain it is really hard to combat such a system with EW.

sepheronx wrote:I love how the comment is a jewish guy saying that it is easy to do EW against the system.   Of course they like to dream about it, even when in the article, they explain it is really hard to combat such a system with EW.

It would be bad for their moral if the country leadership said the only thing they can do is cry or take losses.

Dont want to comment on this but forced too.

This article written by a typical Indian  mostly a new entry  to a payed  gov job thinking great about his career.

Just see how he cunningly shifts and balances his position between Israel and Russian weapons.
Thinks he has  agreat knowledge of Israel and Russian tactics.

RAIN OF ISRAELI AIR ATTACKS IN 2013 (Article states).. Oh really I did not know that .. 

but oh but Israel has 300 f-16 aircrafts (operational)..
why only 3 -4 attacks in  ( in space of 6 months).. My GOD that is too much of a time..
Every attack  approx 10 jets used as per intelligence reports..
THE ARTICLE DOES NOT EXPLAIN THIS PHENOMENON.. 

why these selective and less jets used /attack.. there was no S-300 IN Syria..  during the first 6 months of the year..
There should have been 1000 air attacks not 3 attacks in past 6 months ..if Israel had to show its air power dominance invincibility..
Israel should have launched a BLITZKREIG on Syria.. but what we see few Israel aircraft snucking from behind the mountains and attacking empty buildings in Damascus .. hilarious.. 

This part very quietly , cunningly OMITTED in the article..
The truth is that  S-300 is still not operational in Syria.. and Israel should have launched a series of BLITZKRIEG air bombing campaign against Damascus and military sites..  

Infact what Israel has shown is the complete impotence of IAF AIR FORCE technology in the face of ISOLATED SYRIAN ultra short range pantysir mobile positions

THIS TRUTH IS COMPLETELY JUNKED FROM THE ARTICLED as something ALIEN ..


Just compare with Iraq where approx 2000 aircraft continuously bomb the ground targets for many days altogether.. 
But what we see of Israel attacks is just  10 min -20 min stay inside Syria airspace, hardly couple of air -surface dud missile launches  and those aircraft running from the Damascus airspace like some bull crap .. or some engine flame  out:roll:
or to really tell the truth  a pantsyir automated munition launched and chasing their AR@#.. !  

Everything omitted in the article as if this is something out of the world..

Israel is fact is just using these selective  attack profiles with no military meaning whatsoever..just to provoke SAA and invite a response and divert SAA from their crushing tactics against rebels..
but SAA is clever enough to understand the vile intentions of ISraeli airforce and not commit itself to any counter strike which would be a blunder on part of Syria.

Not even a inch of reality of Israeli Air force (farce) impotence reflected in this article can I ask why  


This article is now copied in all U.S websites as some leading article in the world of air defense..!!! what nonsense..  

But the world is like that only so no complaints from my side.. he he he  

Viktor wrote:Nice article among many others lately about the issue
S-300: NATO’s nightmare and perhaps Russia’s too

Hmmm...gaurav correct on the pantirs isolation and the part about "Middle East maneuvers" from Strategy Page sound like something out of F-16.net, overall a good try at least. 

@gurav

There are no objective articles in the net as no journalist is military expert and no military expert knows everything or is totally unbiased when writing articles.

But I like this article because despite some inaccuracies (and US and Israel could be equally pissed if not even more on this) it puts accent on.

- Why S-300 is deadly
- Deadlines of Russian SAM in general
- Importance of training
- Rightly sees that besides SU only Vietnam had extensive and functional SAM network

the part about "Middle East maneuvers" from Strategy Page sound like something out of F-16.net, overall a good try at least.

Yes it seems to be F-16.net philosophy.
The philosophy states that If ISRAel wants then it
can DESTRoY WHOLE batteries of S-300 "now deployed in Syria"..in Damsacus region..

Just see the direction of this article ..
that superiority of Israeli F-16 is indisputable .. then it shifts the balance
to the Syrian side saiying that Russia will continue to supply additional
Batteries of S-300 if Israel destroys Syrian S-300..

In effect what he is concluding is that the Syria S-300 are no match to
well trained F-16 pilots and Electronic Warfare , dummy targets , noise injection that Israel will deploy against Syria.. S-300 BATTERIES..

I mean what non sense is this..

Why S-300 is deadly

Point taken.

Deadlines of Russian SAM in general

Correct .Point taken
I think you are stating the Speed of s-300 munition mach 7.. to destroy targets
above Israeli -Telaviv airspace.

Importance of training

Absolutely correct.

Rightly sees that besides SU only Vietnam had extensive and functional SAM network

Thats one of the only points that I liked in the article.
Vietnam has recently upgraded its batteries to fire very high speed long range munitions..
..DEEP INSIDE CHINESE TERRITORY.. that is SOME REEL AIR defense force I guess..  

This is a realistic analysis of the capabilities of Syrian air defense network against a western attack publicly available.


http://www.arms-expo.ru/057050048050.html


How i had explained already a pair of years ago, the percentage of up-to date air defense systems in Syrian network in very low and the bulk of that small percentage is composed mostly by point defense systems.

At this is necessary to add : T

- The obsolescence of command and control nodes of IAD
- Very poor to not-existent very long range early warning systems
- Antediluvian EW assets
- Total absence of any space based sensor
- Scarce cability to combine with Air Forces for anti-decoy/ambush missions
- Wide presence of enemy ground forces (FSA operatives) capable to provide crucial live-time humint on the position of the most important elements of Syrian PVO.


In spite of all what said, those very few , insulated, up-to date SAM systems in Syria represent still deadly menaces for NATO hypothetical intruders to the point that very likely the entire attention of NATO planners in those hours in concentrated in track the position of those few high mobile batteries (through mostly HUMINT on the field and the aid of space based  sensor surveillance for data matching).

The best option for Syrian planners in those hours is to force transporter vehicles /APCs / transloaders vehicles and  even civilian heavy vehicles of the right size to enter ,with those SAM systems, under covered places (such as hangars ,tunnels, even underground civil parking ) and arrange them with extensive coverage with wood/metal "skeleton" sustainers (included the original SAM systems) so to render impossible to categorize their precise layout from space based sensor and very difficult to do also for far observer on the ground ,

Mixing those groups and maintaining high the mobility will render, even only planning for NATO's generals hundreds of times more difficult and force them at risk direct intrusions of Syrian airspace.

In general IAD work better when offensive element of the armed forces of the Nation it defend can selectively choose and obliterate enemy air-bases , one after the other with overwhelming attacks (in a progressive action of degradation of enemy Air Force capabilities)  or,anyhow, force enemy Air Force at engage forcibly some elements of those offensive forces ,such as cruise missile launchers, ballistic missile launchers , MLRS or advancing ground forces etc...etc...to avoid to be obliterated.

At example in Yom Kippur war the combination of the presence, for the first time in the Middle East military history, of relatively up-to-date (even if downgraded export models) of SAM systems and of the up-delineated situation (advancing ground forces menacing to destroy IAF's airbases in a matter of hours if capable to achieve a breakthrough) generated truly hindering losses among IAF aircraft "forced" at attack the enemy forces without getting months or even years to prepare for the mission.


What just said is the rational behind international treaty such as MTCR; without those treaties could have been Syrian and Iranian generals, not NATO ones with the limited number of cruise missiles present on theirs ships, at debate in those hours in what airbase full of aircraft , what ship, what radar installation, what C4 base etc... to selectively destroy ,before move the launchers recharge and repeat all under cover of theirs national IAD and all within over two thousands km

That would not only prevent to enemy nations to slowly bring and concentrate theirs aircraft ,radar, ships and command in the theatre of operation in view of an air campaign (an action that would simply expose them to theirs destruction even before be operational in the area !) ,but would also totally deprive them of any capabilities or time to plan the missions : in the best chance them would find themselves in the same situation of IAF in Yom Kippur war....

IAF already bombed Syria with no consequences. And I woukd say that US has better odds than them. It's likely that US already knows exact capability of Syrian AD. Drones, satellites, CIA, defectors will help them paint the picture.
It's very interesting what they will do- criple SAA or target so called WMD sites.
I'm interested in seeing Syrian AD performance too, but wouldn't hold my breath.
And about slaughter of civilians- rebels, terrorists, kurds, regime forces.. all of them don't really care about them. I don't think we can expect US carrying too.

Can somebody tell me how many BUK and Pantsirs have been sold to Syria and what does the Syrian IADS currently consist of. 

AlfaT8 wrote:Can somebody tell me how many BUK  and Pantsirs have been sold to Syria and what does the Syrian IADS currently consist of. 

Wikipedia

LINK


Link mindstorm provided

Syria's air defenses, Salvation or illusion? Подробнее: http://www.arms-expo.ru/057050048050.html

SOC analysis

LINK

Another SOC article

LINK


And there you go. Now you need to sum up the whole thing. It will be interesting to see the role of Russian Navy in Syrian air defense throughout providing information about

the start of the attack, numbers, vectors of approach etc.

Yeah notice that the one thing I wrote there is from 2007, and is a bit out of date! Not too much has changed in terms of overall coverage or layout, but that was written before Chinese-made modern radars were located, new Russian SAM deliveries, etc.

Viktor wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:Can somebody tell me how many BUK  and Pantsirs have been sold to Syria and what does the Syrian IADS currently consist of. 

Wikipedia

LINK


Link mindstorm provided

Syria's air defenses, Salvation or illusion?  Подробнее: http://www.arms-expo.ru/057050048050.html

SOC analysis

LINK

Another SOC article

LINK


And there you go. Now you need to sum up the whole thing. It will be interesting to see the role of Russian Navy in Syrian air defense throughout providing information about

the start of the attack, numbers, vectors of approach etc.

Thanks  

BUK-M2 near Mezzeh airbase

Nice article about Syria air defense

Hold out for three days. Syria's air defense system might well be resisted American attack - under certain conditions

Nice article among many others lately about the issue
S-300: NATO’s nightmare and perhaps Russia’s too

The article ignores one important aspect... SAMs and tactics are not set in stone and need to change and adapt over time to meet new issues.

Having Russian personel manning the Syrian S-300s means also useful feedback on Israeli tactics and methods can be incorporated faster and some tricks can be tested to see if they will work or not.

It will be a polygon... a testing ground and the results will just make future Russian SAMs better...

Could the radar of syrian SA-10 detect the US stealth fighter F-22 ?

I have no doubts that the russian SA-10 and SA-20 's radar could easily detect all US figthers, including F-22, B2 and the could engage them, if not destroy them. Nevetheless, unfortunetly for Syria, the russian SA-10 export might not be optimize to destroy the US stelth fighters.