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Project 955: Borei class SSBN

PapaDragon

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Post n°826

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

PapaDragon Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:25 am

...An OPK source tells TASS that the Russian MoD will sign a contract for two more Borei-A SSBN in August, which will be laid down at Sevmash in 2021. These will be the 9th and 10th Borei SSBN

Actually these two would be 11th and 12th Borei SSBNs

https://flotprom.ru/2020/%D0%93%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B713/

Contract for 9th and 10th were signed last year and are to be laid down on Victory Day this year

PapaDragon

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Post n°827

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

PapaDragon Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:53 pm

It looks like next Borei SSBN that will be laid down will be called Rurik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik

Apparently Pacific Fleet wanted to name a frigate after him but Navy had already reserved the name for a boomer

I have been wondering when this guy will get his own boat

I think he would appreciate the fact that vessel named after him will be packing enough heat to kick-off Ragnarök with him being Viking and all.... Cool

Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 34 Index.php?PHPSESSID=5aad3207a4bc27b23b880fa0b8a2135c&action=dlattach;topic=1108

PapaDragon

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Post n°828

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

PapaDragon Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:51 pm

Auxiliary thruster blades on Borei-A SSBN, no blade tips

Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 34 EStmu9tXQAMal0_?format=jpg&name=small

https://mobile.twitter.com/KingNeptune767/status/1237197042696491008

This one is from Knyaz Oleg but same one is installed on all Borei-A subs, Knyaz Vladimir was used as testbed

Source video:

JohninMK

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Post n°829

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

JohninMK Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:59 pm

Forgive my ignorance but what's the difference between that prop arrangement and a waterjet propulsor?

PapaDragon

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Post n°830

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

PapaDragon Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:01 pm

JohninMK wrote:Forgive my ignorance but what's the difference between that prop arrangement and a waterjet propulsor?

Most noise is generated by blade tips

This setup is supposed to minimize that noise since tips are covered snuggly by shroud without much space between

Arrow

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Post n°831

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

Arrow Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:40 pm

Wow this is rim driven thruster. Electric motor driving fan without a shaft consiting of the outer shell as a stator and then fan as rotator with a bearing against stator. It can be very quiet drives in the future without additional drive shafts etc.
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/07/china-all-electric-rim-driven-shaftless-ultraquiet-submarine-propulsion.html

flamming_python

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Post n°832

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

flamming_python Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:41 am

Arrow wrote:Wow this is rim driven thruster. Electric motor driving fan without a shaft consiting of the outer shell as a stator and then fan as rotator with a bearing against stator. It can be very quiet drives in the future without additional drive shafts etc.
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/07/china-all-electric-rim-driven-shaftless-ultraquiet-submarine-propulsion.html

This is the Borei thread, not the thread for your superiority complex against Russia by touting China as the next big thing.

When China gets a SSBN with Borei's capabilities you let me know.

Austin

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Post n°833

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

Austin Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:57 am

Interview with Borei SSBN ex Commander Alexander Nevsky, Captain 1st Rank Vasily Tankovid,

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/8017931

George1

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Post n°834

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

George1 Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:06 pm

Low noise Borei class sub remained unnoticed by US during voyage to Far East

https://tass.com/defense/1132447

Tsavo Lion

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Post n°835

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

Tsavo Lion Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:58 pm

When China gets a SSBN with Borei's capabilities you let me know.

There's no big rush to get to that level- those they now have can strike N. America from the SC Sea & Hainan area, protected by CV/Ns, PLA/NAF, & surface ships. They can even sail up & down on the Yangtze river & 2 big lakes connected to it, camouflaged on the top as a barge. In some places, they could even dive with room to spare:
Even before the river was inundated, its depth in the gorges was considerable, increasing to between 500 and 600 feet (150 and 180 metres) and giving the Yangtze the greatest depths of any river in the world. ...
At the edge of the Lake Liangzi plain the Yangtze widens markedly, the course of its stream wandering in the form of a large loop. The width of the river is up to 2,600 feet (800 metres), the depth is more than 100 feet (30 metres), ..
The width of the river increases at this point to between 3,000 and 6,000 feet (900 and 1,800 metres), and the depth in places approaches 100 feet.
https://www.britannica.com/place/Yangtze-River/The-Yangtze-delta

Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:03 pm; edited 2 times in total

Arrow

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Post n°836

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

Arrow Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:58 am

flamming_python wrote:

Arrow wrote:Wow this is rim driven thruster. Electric motor driving fan without a shaft consiting of the outer shell as a stator and then fan as rotator with a bearing against stator. It can be very quiet drives in the future without additional drive shafts etc.
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/07/china-all-electric-rim-driven-shaftless-ultraquiet-submarine-propulsion.html

This is the Borei thread, not the thread for your superiority complex against Russia by touting China as the next big thing.

When China gets a SSBN with Borei's capabilities you let me know.

This is not the point. It was just an example that China is working on this type of propulsion. It seems that the pirws will apply it to the Russians on Borey A. I wonder what speed they are able to give the submarine these 4 additional propulsors? Can be used for silent slow patrol instead of main drive. The rim driver requires no gears or drive shafts

GarryB

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Post n°837

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

GarryB Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:24 am

Traditionally extra propellers are used for low speed very low noise operations... it adds complication but also redundancy too.

For an SSBN once it gets to its position it spends most of its time operating at very low speeds so it is not a stationary target, but it has no need to get anywhere in particular other than not be detected so these extra drives allow the main propulsion system be shut down greatly reducing noise without being a sitting duck.

It also offers an alternative method to get home if there is a problem with main propulsion... but that wouldn't happen often enough to warrant the setup on its own.

Isos

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Post n°838

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

Isos Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:56 pm

Scale down Borei for accoustic tests in a lake in Russia. Also Yasen with removable front to find the best and stealthiest front shapes.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PararamTadam/status/1240534095140130816

George1

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Post n°839

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

George1 Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:23 am

Russian Navy to Get First Borei-A Class Nuclear-Powered Submarine in April - Shipbuilder

dino00

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Post n°840

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

dino00 Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:55 pm

Advanced nuclear-powered sub Knyaz Vladimir to be delivered to Russian Navy by late June

MOSCOW, April 13. /TASS/. The Project 955A (Borei-A) lead nuclear-powered submarine Knyaz Vladimir will be delivered to the Russian Navy by late June and the vessel will undergo at least one sea trial before that date, a source in the Russian defense industry told TASS.

"The Project 955A lead nuclear-powered submarine is planned to be delivered to the Russian Navy before the end of the first half of the year, i.e. before the end of June," the source said. "Before that time the vessel will certainly undergo at least one more sea trial, perhaps even two or three more sea trials."

The source added that the additional sea trials were necessary "to check the operability of the vessel’s all units and systems following the work on the elimination of shortcomings, which were detected during the trials in 2019."

Full Article
https://tass.com/defense/1143771

mnztr

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Post n°841

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

mnztr Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:47 am

So how many Boomers is considered a full fleet by Russia, is 10 enough? I don't really see why they need much more then 10 boomers. Much better to spend the money on attack and cruise missile subs. I wonder if they will ever build another purebred hunter killer like Alfa class.

Tsavo Lion

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Post n°842

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

Tsavo Lion Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:51 am

The USN has 14 boomers; the VMF will gradually decommission the 6 remaining Delta IVs, & it's only natural to have at least 10 Boreis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-class_submarine#Units
http://www.military-today.com/navy/delta_iv_class.htm

Later, they may convert the 1st 2 to other roles to have only upgraded Borei As on deterrence patrls; having more will help to pick up the slack.

GarryB

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Post n°843

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

GarryB Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:38 pm

They are moving towards modular and multifunction... I doubt they will go back to single function optimised designs... which is not to say a bad thing... they will have fast submarines with powerful nuclear PPs and titanium hulls and they will likely have some very capable but much cheaper SSKs too... the Lada class looks rather good and they have plans for new subs that look even better. And of course there is the explosion of unmanned underwater vehicles too...

They wont need a lot of SSBNs, but then if the Americans think a new cold war is what they want and that they can win again by making the opposition spend too much on weapons they might decide to go for 6,000 nuclear strategic warheads, so more SLBMs will be needed.

At current levels with 6 warheads per missile and 16 missiles per boat that is about 96 warheads per boat, so 500 warheads means about 6 subs or there abouts... if the US wants a cold war they could easily increase that to 10 warheads per missile and 160 warheads per boat so with 6 boats that can go from to 576 missiles to 960 on 6 boats...

mnztr

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Post n°844

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

mnztr Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:17 am

Looks like the US is going with 12x Columbia class SSBN. Maybe Russia will build hybrids which can carry a couple of ICBMs and the array of Yassen class weapons. Frankly it would create a nightmare for the USA. No one would dare to strike even if a single ICBM could make it through.

PapaDragon

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Post n°845

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

PapaDragon Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:41 am

mnztr wrote:Looks like the US is going with 12x Columbia class SSBN. Maybe Russia will build hybrids which can carry a couple of ICBMs and the array of Yassen class weapons. Frankly it would create a nightmare for the USA. No one would dare to strike even if a single ICBM could make it through.

Hybrids are redundant, nuclear patrols and standard ones are two completely different things

USA is going for 12 Columbias with 16 SLBMs each which is same number of missiles as Borei

Considering that Russian land nuclear component is much larger than American one it would be pretty safe option to stop at 10 Boreis and focus on construction of Yasens

mnztr

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Post n°846

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

mnztr Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:21 am

PapaDragon wrote:

mnztr wrote:Looks like the US is going with 12x Columbia class SSBN. Maybe Russia will build hybrids which can carry a couple of ICBMs and the array of Yassen class weapons. Frankly it would create a nightmare for the USA. No one would dare to strike even if a single ICBM could make it through.

Hybrids are redundant, nuclear patrols and standard ones are two completely different things

USA is going for 12 Columbias with 16 SLBMs each which is same number of missiles as Borei

Considering that Russian land nuclear component is much larger than American one it would be pretty safe option to stop at 10 Boreis and focus on construction of Yasens

Who says they are redundant? the hull cross section is very similar so dropping in a couple of ICBM silos which can easily be adapted to carrying the standard VLS lauchers would create a lot of ambiguity for the US that spends a lot of time tracking boomers All of a suddent the fleet of ICBM capable subs will double or triple, all the while the Russians lose nothing in functionality while giving the USN a huge headache. That is a cold war win. Alfa class gave everyone a HUGE headache I am sure the Russians were entertained.

P.S it looks like the Colombia class SSBNs will be hybrids

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-new-husky-class-submarine-everything-we-know-want-23804

Last edited by mnztr on Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:32 am; edited 1 time in total

GarryB

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Post n°847

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

GarryB Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:53 am

10 Boreis would allow the withdrawal of all other SSBN types, though a run of perhaps 12 might allow a couple of extra models for special operations... like underwater research with UUVs and also perhaps arsenal variants... perhaps the first few with 12 launch tubes and modified hull types could be replaced in service by new models... research subs and arsenal subs don't need max quietness.

mnztr

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Post n°848

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

mnztr Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:44 pm

Looks like they plan another 4 after the ones already laid down (14 total):
Borei B cancelled

I can't help believing that there will be a Borie A M however. Russia is famous for messing around with offical designations to sow confusion. I assume the Borei A is the quietest nucear boat they have built so far. It will be intersting to see the reports considering how quiet even the first Yassen class is.

PapaDragon

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Post n°849

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

PapaDragon Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:35 pm

mnztr wrote:Looks like they plan another 4 after the ones already laid down (14 total):
Borei B cancelled

I can't help believing that there will be a Borie A M however. Russia is famous for messing around with offical designations to sow confusion. I assume the Borei A is the quietest nucear boat they have built so far. It will be intersting to see the reports considering how quiet even the first Yassen class is.

This article is 2 years old

mnztr

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Post n°850

Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

mnztr Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:09 pm

PapaDragon wrote:

mnztr wrote:Looks like they plan another 4 after the ones already laid down (14 total):
Borei B cancelled

I can't help believing that there will be a Borie A M however. Russia is famous for messing around with offical designations to sow confusion. I assume the Borei A is the quietest nucear boat they have built so far. It will be intersting to see the reports considering how quiet even the first Yassen class is.

This article is 2 years old

This is a 40-50 year program, has there been any news to say they have changed the plan? Wiki says 2 more will be laid down around 2024 as per the current state amaments program. Plenty of time time to plan for 2 more.

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