Documentaries Thread:

GarryB wrote:

The thing is, we really don't have to switch to Alternatives until Oil is actually about to run out,

That is the opposite to the talk that got a man on the moon.

• Swept-wing technology
• Jet fighter & bomber
• Radio & television
• Rockets
• UFOs
• Guided SAMs
• Killer Laser
• Nuclear technology
• Human health& medicine

There wasn't anything special about Nazi scientists except for the fact that they were properly funded and supported.

For example the Mig-8 not only had swept wings but also canard fore planes and a pusher propeller so you could hardly say the Nazi scientists were alone in exploring the features of swept wing design.

GarryB wrote:
Other than murdering more German civilians than Stalin did the strategic bombing campaign would be considered now a war crime.

Back on topic, if the Nazis were 20 years ahead of everyone why was it that the future of jet engines came from Britain? It was British engines that powered the Soviet fighters because they were two to three times more powerful and much better engineered with better longer lasting materials. US jet engine design also "suddenly" improved went the British started handing over their superior engine technology.

nightcrawler wrote:@Aramonik
Churchill wasn't the hypocrite it was the Stalin who was the real hypocrite

Aramonik wrote:

nightcrawler wrote:@Aramonik
Churchill wasn't the hypocrite it was the Stalin who was the real hypocrite

Then please explain; September 1, 1939.
Germany invades Poland
Red Army also invades Poland.
England declares war on Germany.
England no declaration of War against Russia.
Russia occupies more of Poland than the Germans.

Why no declaration of War against Russia?
Churchill hypocrite



Great thread.

That is irrelevant. It is like saying China had the first rockets so it must be the first country to launch satellites and have the best rocket technology now.
Of course they did, but again that means nothing. They had no idea what the Nazis had achieved and probably assumed they had better engines. Once they examined them they would have found their engines were not that great and British engine technology was better.

Do you think it was Nazi nuclear scientists that completed the nuclear bombs for the US or was it a large group of people speaking all sorts of funny european languages that were sent to the US to do it?

And if the allies ever considered their own high morals on the issue most of those German scientists would have been shot for the crimes they supported.

Churchill wasn't the hypocrite it was the Stalin who was the real hypocrite & a very disdainful person.

Stalin was a brute that thought scientists and most other people were lazy and only worked well when under threat of death.

Churchil was a real Jerk who thought colonialism was the colonial power doing the the colonised country a favour by taking control of it and fleecing it of all its useful assets and then moving on to the next country.

Everybody whines about Poland!!! Look at a map from WWI or before and point to me where it says Poland... Poland didn't even exist then.

Stalin went to the British to see what sort of agreement he could get before WWII had even started and the British told him to go talk to the Polish. The Soviets went to the Polish, but if you look at the history of the region Poland stole land from the Russians/Soviets weakened from WWI and their revolution and openly fought with them up till about 1921 or so, so the Polish didn't want a treaty with the Soviets... they turned to the Germans for protection from the Soviets.

Having been rejected by both countries Stalin was approached by the Germans with an agreement that would give him half of Poland and keep German forces that distance further from Moscow. In absence of any offer from anyone else he took the German offer of a NON AGGRESSION Pact.

Note NON AGGRESSION pact. The US and UK currently don't have a non aggression pact because real allies don't need agreements that outline what each can pinch without infringing on the interests of the other.

Stalin was not a hypocrite to sign the pact with Germany... he would have been an idiot not to. Poland was no ally of the Soviets and the UK were not much better.

When Hitler started fingering Stalin a$$ he only then realised how to befriend allies;

Churchil compared Stalin to the devil... he was hardly an ally.
What support did he get from his allies?
Lend lease was not free and was payed for.
Actually it was Churchil that is the hypocrite as he is the one that openly despises Uncle Joe yet is happy to get into bed with him when it suits.

While the western allies p!ssed around in North Africa and Italy the Soviets were fighting the real war... if the Brits and Americans had really wanted to fight Germany they could have launched D Day in 1942. They would have taken a lot more casualties but then they might have pushed the Germans back to their borders and freed Eastern Europe too and been in a much better position during the Cold war.
But instead they were happy to let the Soviets suffer... is it any surprise the Soviets used Eastern Europe as a buffer zone to NATO so that they wouldn't suffer ground fighting like that again?

First of all their gyroscope guidance was rubbish and allowed them the accuracy to target only enormous targets like London with very little accuracy.

The Soviets and US had already developed basic unmanned aircraft that could be called cruise missiles but they weren't interested in targeting London and any target smaller would be very safe so they dropped the programs till the guidance improved.

The Nazis developed big rockets from a need through a lack of large long range 4 engine bombers. The Luftwaffe was just the direct fire support arm of the Army and was mostly single and twin engine aircraft designed to support Army operations. They didn't even know how to fight another air power as shown in the Battle of Britain.

The Nazis were ahead during WWII in ballistic missiles because that is what their focus was, when in the immediate post war period the Soviets got their hands on V-2s over a similar time period that the Nazis took to develop a weapon with less range than a Scud and much worse accuracy (1936-1944) the Soviets were able to develop the R-7 ICBM (work started in 1953 and the operational missile was deployed in 1959).
If the R-7 was built using German standard practise it would have been a much smaller much lower performing missile.

The Nazis had a lead because no one was in that race at the time. Once everyone else entered the race the Nazi technology was quickly left behind.

The swept wing on the Me-262 was an accident and didn't really make much difference to the aircrafts performance because it was no where near transonic. It could have made a difference if it was produced in numbers but there was no fuel supply that could have supported extra numbers even if Hitler didn't divert his designers by demanding a fighter bomber role for the Me-262 instead of making it a pure fighter.

The Sabre and Mig-15 needed swept wings because of their higher speed performance made swept wings more useful.

First rule of war... there are no rules.

The first in service, but not the only one in development.

Developed by a desperate state that couldn't design 4 engined bombers quickly enough.
Otherwise a complete waste of money and effort without an accurate guidance and a powerful enough warhead.

Note the Horten is last on the list of flying wings and while naturally stealthy a flying wing is not stealth. They didn't know enough about radar at the time to even start to think about materials and shaping to make an aircraft design stealthy.

That is rubbish. Stalin did what Mugabe has done to Zimbabwe... in both cases when you take large relatively efficient farms and break them up into little farms owned by people who don't have the interest or resources to maximise yields to increase production to feed the country you suddenly get lots of small inefficient farms that don't produce the food surplus they used to. SHOCK! HORROR! This leads to a food shortage, and in serious food shortages SHOCK! HORROR! People go without food. Depriving people of food leads to localised Famine. The difference between the Soviet Union and Zimbabwe is that neighbouring countries could sell them food so they start to import food whereas the Soviets didn't.
It wasn't a Ukrainian famine... it was a famine that effected all the Soviet states but as many crop farms are in the ukraine they felt it worse than other states.

How do you know?

After WWI Poland was happy to take land from Russia.

Stalin was an A hole

Because it is not a navigation suite... is it more like the elevation settings on a long range artillery piece except the artillery piece is so much more accurate due to the shorter range and shorter flight period meaning the projectile is less effected by crosswind and other external influences.

You make it sound like Hitler and the Nazis were different things???
Hitler was their leader and they did as they were told... if Hitler was wrong then the Nazis were wrong.
Nobel prizes don't mean much of anything at all. And they lost the war... you'd think they would have had the brains to stop at Poland or France, but they were not smart

I call the swept wings on the Me-262 an accident because it was. They needed to shift the centre of gravity of the aircraft backwards to improve performance and they did that by sweeping the wings back to move the engines back without changing the wing structure where the wing joins the fuselage. It was an accident.

Just look up and read a little about Konstantin Tsiolkovsky... he was years ahead of his time

I think you are a little confused... West Germany and East Germany didn't exist till the end of WWII when the country was split. The famine in the Ukraine and the Soviet Union happened in the 1930s.

Your hero happily signed Eastern Europe over to the Soviets during WWII to make sure the Soviets would fight against German and not seek some sort of peace agreement.

Your hero happily used Nazis and Japanese soldiers in the Asian, African, and European theatres in the immediate post war period to ensure the colonial states still under British and French rule stayed in line and did as was told.

He was no Stalin, but he was certainly happy to get right into bed with Stalin when it suited him.

Even assuming you are right... look at how quickly the allies jumped into bed with the West Germans and Japanese after the war had ended. Were there no bad Japanese? Were all the bad Germans in East Germany... and if so why did the west treat people escaping from East Germany as victims?

Germany and Japans crimes were practically forgotten overnight apart from that little show trial at Nuremberg... they didn't even bother for the Japanese despite crimes like the rape of Nanking, and close to 15 years of brutal military occupation of China.

The time and effort and money and material and men wasted on super weapons shortened the war by a significant margin in the favour of the allies.

Not true. In WWII there were plenty of wrist watches and very complex mechanical that could have been used to more accurately determine range and greatly improve accuracy... but the cost and complexity wasn't warranted... they called it V for Vengence and it was their way of getting back at the west for the strategic bombing... which also wasn't very accurate, so they wanted it to be indiscriminate... it was a terror weapon. They wanted the enemy to hear it coming and to have them straining their ears to hear when the engine stopped and seconds later the explosion... all part of the design.

Look you are asserting that sand-glass in previous times wasn't a watch!!

WRONG. The Nazis didn't invent gyroscopes and many aircraft in WWII and before had a basic gyroscope based autopilot that would keep the plane on level flight in a specific heading.
And it wasn't a guidance system. The weapons were fired at a specific direction and in the case of the V-1 would continue to fly till a counter counted down to zero and cut the engine and controls and it plunged into the ground. The V-2 used a gyroscope to fire it in the direction of London and knowing its max range and the distance to London led to a collision between the two. Neither could be considered guidance.

What I am saying is that the Germans were working on jet engines but didn't have any experience at manned supersonic flight just like the rest of the world and would only find out about supersonic aerodynamics by experiment like anyone else... of course they did it in the US after the war.

The Me-262 wasn't fast enough for a swept wing to matter that much, but it did improve greatly the high speed handling... partly by improving cg and partly by improved airflow over the wing.

It wasn't till post war aircraft like the Sabre and Mig-15 that compressibility became an issue and it wasn't so much a swept wing that was the issue then as the all moving horizontal tail surface.

I have no admiration for the Nazis.

Stalin wasn't interested in race.

This was also an era of mass epidemics in the growing urban centers. The obsession within racist ideologies on finding scapegoats, the excessive valuing of ethnic authenticity and purity, denouncing “mixing” and defending against contamination from “outsiders” to the group resonated with society-widephobias. But it would be a mistake to connect the dehumanizing frames inherentin genocide to one historical era. Dehumanization, whatever the time or context,necessitates the use of non-human ascriptive labels: Nazi extermination of Jewish“vermin”, Soviet “liquidation” of “kulak spiders”, Pol Pot’s crushing of “worms”,the Hutu killing of “cockroaches”

Lemkin’s notion that genocide could also be applied to the
extermination of “social collectivities” was dropped, for this was seen as a euphemism for “class war” by the USSR. The Nuremburg Trials’ inclusion of “political” groups in the crime of “extermination” was also abandoned. The Stalinist regime of the Soviet Union had conducted in the early 1930s one of the worst (in numerical terms) genocides in history by its extermination of “kulaks” (nominally “wealthy peasants”), which included the Holodomor famine
genocide in Ukraine (Conquest, 1987). Due to the USSR’s opposition to the inclusion of “political” groups as a protected category, and to secure the passing of the Convention at the General Assembly, its framers settled on a narrow definition of the groups covered and thereby intentionally excluded not only political, but also cultural linguistic and socio-economic groups (Whitaker Report, 1985). The Holodomor genocide is an example of the paradoxical politicization of genocide that has been shaped by the narrow framing of the definition in the Convention. The Ukrainian peasantry was not specifically or disproportionally targeted by Stalinist dekulakization, which ravaged the Soviet peasantry in general, but the exclusion of political and social groups from the definition forced Ukrainian claimants to construct these historical events in national and ethnic terms.

So the choice is a man responsible for millions of deaths or a man happy to ally himself when it suits him with such a man for his own benefit... can I choose neither?

The USSR wasn't tried because it won. It is only the losing side that is tried for war crimes. Otherwise the US probably would have had a few trials itself where japanese sailors were murdered in the water next to their sinking ships by Americans.

If attention seeking is a crime you are using to compare him with Hitler then hooray!... lets also add the moustache and the dark coloured hair... they must have been twins separated at birth... NOT.