T-90 tanks in Indian Army

No it cant be old deal , its a new deal since it came after the ex Gen VKS wrote a letter to Government on deficiet war reserves.

http://m.indianexpress.com/news/gen-waved-red-flags-many-times-on-tank-ammo-air-defence/929735/

The deal includes 3BM42 , Invar and Konkurs

Some portion of 3BM42 and Invar will be imported others will be lic manufactured.


The key question to ask is what guns do the Avadi Manufactured Lic T-90 includes and if its 2A62M-2 gun.can it fire any round better than 3BM42. Its not much hard to find that out.

The deal includes 3BM42 , Invar and Konkurs

Some portion of 3BM42 and Invar will be imported others will be lic manufactured.

Austin i am perfectly aware of the declarations of General

i am interested in the news asserting that THIS deal is surely for 3VBM17 rounds with 3BM42 projectile ,ok ?

Can you point out to me THIS news ?
I want to know what the initial news that has generated this "blaze".

I repeat ,it is still possible that India will,at the end, opt for other 3VBM17 rounds ,but Rosoboronexport press strongly for 3VBM19 rounds ,which would be not only perfectly compliant but would even surpass Indian revised penetration requirements for APFSDS; the debate is on price......

Can you point any news report where Rosoboronexport says 3VBM19 rounds will be exported ?

It appear that T-90MS will find its first order - 296 units- in India :

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2012/20121105/main5.htm


Several in service T-90S, moreover, will receive extensive modernization using T-90MS's components (ostensibly "Kalina" FCS, upgraded gun and modified autoloader, but not the engine).

It looks more like modernised T-90 Bishma then T-90MS it has some features developed for T-90MS but by and large retains what the existing T-90 has and adds few more features.

It looks more like modernised T-90 Bishma then T-90MS it has some features developed for T-90MS but by and large retains what the existing T-90 has and adds few more features.

Austin from what the article say ,India will buy 236 T-90MS (likely in place of next delivery of T-90S):

"236 of the latest version of the tanks have been ordered, said top sources,"

while, contemporaneously, implementing some of its features into existing T-90S (which ,like you note, will only correspond to a modernization).

".....while explaining that additional features will be incorporated on the existing T-90 platform with no change in the engine or its traction".

No i dont think it would be the latest T-90MS but what the existing Bishma will have since its under lic production.

So what they will add in new model is MRS for Gun and Autotracker probably for tank fire missile.

Other features that would come as was disclosed by DGMF in an interview i posted in this thread some time back are new APS and Air conditioning system.

But the key feature of T-90MS like Kalina FCS and Relikt Armour will be missile , also missing is a more powerful engine and new Gun .....so its a partial upgrade not a full T-90MS

Heres one more news on T-90 upgrade

http://lenta.ru/news/2012/11/06/digital/

Russia will make the Indian T-90 "digital"

Kits that make the tank "digital" - an automated control system (ACS), which is based on tank subsystem ESU TK "Constellation-2M". The set allows commanders to control units on the battlefield in real time, connecting all armored vehicles into a single information network.

- The tanks are displays showing all the tactical information about the location of friendly forces and enemy forces. With ACS commanders of all units receive tasks from higher headquarters, give orders, and control their execution, make changes in the plans. The interface is very similar to a computer game strategy, - he said.

Performed two sets of ACS - for linear and command tanks. Commander's system is more complex, equipped with additional displays. According to the source, the negotiations with India are conducted throughout the year, and the success of the talks facilitated by the fact that the main tank of Indian Army - Russian T-90.

Especially for customers Russians conducted additional tests and screenings "Constellation." Indian military check whether work set in the desert, the mountains, in crossing water obstacles. Most of them concerned whether the transmitter is to break through the dust and rain.

- Not everything went smoothly, the equipment and software had to be replaced. The hardest thing was to integrate our electronic brains with Indian, but we managed - said the defense industry.

Heres one more news on T-90 upgrade

This is not a T-90S upgrade, it is a new unified networked battle management's system , it has nothing to do with orders of new T-90MS and modernization of existing tank's basin.

Very likely this order ,representing the first great scale export order of a modern unified BMS worldwide, confirm the news of modernization of operative T-90S ,because "Kalina" is designed to work synergistically with it, in particular thanks to its authomatic designation/targeting capability.

FCS lacking this capbility (among which vast majority of western built ones) cannot capitalize several decisive features of Constellation-2M's network.

Damn journalists. Having read both those articles, the only conclusion that can be reached from the text is that some T-90's will get some upgrades.

Mindstorm , I told you there are no T-90MS getting imported but only some subsystem developed for it is being transferred to Indian T-90S i.e MRS and Auto Tracker.

Now we know it might also have BMS system , Look at DGMF interview i posted in previous page it talks of new APS and AC being fitted to it.

So basicly if all goes well we would see Indian T-90S Bishma getting the following as part of its modernisation.

1 ) Auto Tracker
2 ) MRS
3 ) APS
4 ) BMS
5 ) AC

What it wont get when compared to T-90MS are

1 ) Kalina FCS
2 ) New 2A45-M5 Gun
3 ) K-6 Relikt
4 ) New Engine

The Gun and FCS are key component on the new T-90MS ,the Kalina FCS can gurantee a 21 out of 22 hits on the target while older FCS on T-90 like the one India uses can gurantee 15 hits out of 22.

The Gun used on Indian T-90 are older 2A46-M2 type cannot fire the newer rounds but only Mango.

Mindstorm , I told you there are no T-90MS getting imported but only some subsystem developed for it is being transferred to Indian T-90S i.e MRS and Auto Tracker.

Therefore a news containing a correction of the information previously given has been provided.

Can you add a link to this news? Thanks.

Mindstorm i dont get what you are saying.

But you have to understand the Indian media they tend to use advanced version and state of art as often as a girl changes her clothes.

T-90MS wont come to India unless it goes through eloborate trials in India and that wont be hidden.

Most likely Indians are looking at selective upgrade of existing T-90S where it makes sense and add stuff thats more drastically needed like APS and an AC as confirmed by DGMF.

Wait for more news or some MOD report to confirm on T-90MS purchase till then its all in the air.

T-90MS wont come to India unless it goes through eloborate trials in India and that wont be hidden.

If any, trials would be several times more in need for acceptance of Constellation-2M than hard, "metric" improvements implemented in T-90MS ,in particular: ballistic protection increase of the new armor fillers, performances of the export version of "Relikt" ERA, increase of engine power , increase of energy supply etc..etc...

T-90 is a platform already widely tested by part of India ,therefore acceptance of the metric and parametric improvements of T-90MS (in a way not different than acceptance of capability's imcrease of a Leo-2A6 for an Army employing 2A4) don't generate any type problem.

To the contrary are just software and vectronic modifications at need the most accurate examinations....even more if someone chose to adopt a very modern unified BMS (in part still subject to the last refinements modifications) working synergetically with target auto-tracking of FCS in linked vehicles.



Therefore ,from your informations, 236 T-90S will receive the "modernization" leaving the others uncapable to capitalize the integration of Constellation-2M and cooperative engagement employing the advanced target auto-tracking (a capability ,at now present only on Merkawa IV and Leclerc MBT? ).

Mindstorm , Like i said we need to wait and see how things evolve.

I am skeptical this new T-90 is the MS version its more of improvement over existing T-90 as is mentioned in the interview from IA.

T-90MS will likely not come because of Arjun Mk2 development and only specific improvement deemed necessary will be made to Indian T-90 in batches covering most T-90.

Going by what has been reported so far, I think 'Áustin' is right. Although I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a MS purchase down the line.

ndia is interested in continuing the licensed production of Russian T-90C tanks. This came in a statement by Chief Executive of the Russian-Indian tank contract, General Director of "Uralvagonzavod" scientific industrial corporation Oleg Siyenko at the IDEX-2013 arms fair. On Monday, a Russian T-90C tank participated in a dynamic demonstration of technical equipment at the exhibition in Abu-Dhabi, and earned a lot of praise from experts.

On the basis of total characteristics, today the T-90C tank is the best tank on the international market. According to Siyenko, "there are hundreds of already manufactured tanks". This tank is produced on the base of the Russian license at a tank factory in the city of Avadi, in the state of Tamil Nadu. Today, the T-90C tank is the main striking force of the Indian army. India is interested in transition from the currently existing large-unit assembly to complete localization of production and subsequent modernization of the previously jointly manufactured machines. According to estimations of experts, in 2014-2019, India can additionally purchase about 600 new, modernized T-90C tanks and start their complete licensed production on the spot.

Today, India sticks to the same pattern at other enterprises producing various military equipment under Russian licenses. Indian Corporation "Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd" produces one of the world's best fighters Su-30 MKI under the Russian license. Today, together with India we manufacture a prospective fifth generation fighter - FGFA (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft). It is for several years now that the Russian-Indian BrahMos joint venture, named in honor of the Russian Moscow River and the Indian Brahmaputra, produces the fastest BrahMos cruise missiles.

Meanwhile, Russian designers are working at a new tank of the fifth generation. It requires radically different engineering and technical solutions, editor-in-chief of the National Defense magazine Igor Korotchenko says.

“This tank will be controlled remotely. This project will be the first step on the way to a fully «unmanned» weapon, to so-called combat robots, about which science fiction authors wrote last century”.

And who knows, maybe, this tank can also be created by a joint effort of Russian and Indian gunsmiths.


http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_02_19/From-licensed-assembly-to-joint-production-India-wants-to-produce-Russian-tanks-T-90C/

Another Russia-India ammunition deal

The Indian company will produce ammunition for T-90 under license from the Russian Federation