Russian Air Force numbers and procurement plans

Notio wrote:

franco wrote:Su-27 family

New builds:

12 Su-27SM3

Modern Rebuilds:

51 Su-27SM (53 were completed and 2 lost in accidents. Last count only revealed 50 aircraft, maybe one was in an aircraft maintenance plant)
1 Su-27UBM

Are you counting the Su-27SM3 red 63 and 64 among Su-27SMs (as they are rebuilds and not new builds?)? There are 14 Su-27SM3s going from red 51 to 64.
Red 51:
Red 64:

Did you see that blue 01 (Su-27SM) has been repainted as red 49 for the Besovets air base. I guess blue 10 has had similar re-numbering(as it went to Besovets as well), but I haven't seen the new bort yet. The new red 49 appears on video and it can be seen to carry the same RF-95218 code as blue 01 before.

There is an order to rebuild 36 Su-27P's into Su-27SM3's. Have noticed claims of two others with the training and testing units. They may be the first two delivered or two built separately to test the concept.

VKS Russia plan to have 700 fighters

According to Lenta.ru web resource in the article "VKS Russia wanted to get 700 fighter jets," the number of fighter aircraft in Russian Air Force in the future should be at least 700 aircraft in combatregiments excluding machines in storage. This was the correspondent of "Lenta.ru" said a source in the Defense Ministry. The basis of the park at the same time will be the production of fighter aircraft Sukhoi of Komsomolsk-on-Amur and Irkutsk aircraft plant.

"This figure is achievable by 2025. Fighters will be about 40 per cent of the total number of aircraft of the Air Force fleet, the rest - attack planes and bombers, reconnaissance, transport, training and special aircrafts", - said the source edition.

According to him, out of this number, about 450 cars - will be Sukhoi fighters. "In addition, with units of the 5th generation machines Su-30, Su-35, a number of modernized Su-27 will still remain. The rest will be - the modernized MiG-31, MiG-29 and the new MiG-35 ", - the expert said. He noted that the total number of combat-ready fighter aircraft in the Air Force is expected to increase by over a third.

At the present time, according to various sources, the Russian Air Force has about 500 different types of fighters.

Comment bmpd. From the text of the material it is unclear whether fighter numbers will be only for VKS Russia, or the Russian Armed Forces as a whole, including the Naval Aviation of the Navy, and that takes into account whether the only aircraft "combatant regiments", or all parts of the VKS / Armed Forces (including combat training centers and training and testing parts). In all figures assessments should know how to count the planes of the 45th Army Air Force and Air Defence, is now formally Naval Aviation.

Speaking about the current state of the fighter fleet of the Russian Armed Forces, including air force, and naval aviation, it should be noted that now, according to the known data, it also contain 246 new fighters with a lifetime of less than 10 years (58 Su-35S, 79 Su-30SM, 20 Su-30M2 and 12 Su-27SM3, 44 MiG-29SMT, 10 MiG-29UB, 23 MiG-29KR/KUBP) and about 440 older fighters, including upgraded (roughly about 180 Su-27, 20 Su-33, 120 MiG-29, 120 MiG-31).

Of this total, 210 include new fighter aircraft directly to the VKS (without naval aviation and the 45th Army Air Force and Air Defense),  (58 Su-35s, 66 Su-30SM, 20 Su-30M2 and 12 Su-27SM3, 44 MiG-29SMT, 10 MiG-29UB) and 370 older fighters, including upgraded (roughly about 160 Su-27, 120 MiG-29 and 90 MiG-31), and almost all the "old" MiG-29 (except for the air group in Armenia) are used already in training for any discontinued operation.

While maintaining the current organizational structure of VKS (without new transmission parts and connections in the Navy), the figure of 700 fighter looks quite achievable for Air Force of Russia in 2025, although it would require the maintenance of supplies to the troops of Su-35s and Su-30cm pace at the average total 25-30 aircraft per year during the 2021-2025 period. As for the fifth-generation fighter T-50, we can expect the release only of a relatively small production batches of the fighters during the 2021-2025 period, and the really mass production and deliveries to combat units of T-50 will be launched in the guise of a "second stage" since 2025 year.

Thus, according to the optimistic scenario, Russian Air Force Fighter Park in 2025 can have up to 480-500 fighters of new construction with a service life of 20 years (approximately 50 T-50S, 150-170 Su-35S, 150-170 Su-30SM, 30 Su-27SM3/ Su-30M2, 50 MiG-29 SMT/UB, 36 MiG-35) and 210 modernized fighters of older types (up to 90 Su-27SM/SM3, 120 MiG-31BM/BSM).

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2326878.html

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These are exactly the numbers we also have for the fighters. In addition i would like to point that 44 MiG-29SMT and 10 MiG-29UB, means the ex-Algerian 28xMiG-29SMT and 6xMiG-29UBM + the new ordered 16xMiG-29SMT and 4 MiG-29UBM along them = 44SMT and 10UBM respectively
It is also confirmed from this article that except the 16xMiG-29S in Armenia all other old MiG-29s (about 120) are used for training

According to the article it seems that:

111 MiG-29
90 Su-27
20 Su-33

would be replaced in the active service by (new production):

80 (70-90) Su-30
100 (90-110) Su-35
50 Su-PAK-FA

Keeping almost the same number of active aircrafts.

fairly small number considering who their opponents are. Of course, there is Russia's air defense systems too. But still, having a fairly large fighter force would serve them better. I know they are not counting the Su-24's and Su-34's with Su-34's being capable of similar air to air combat capabilities as that of a Su-30MK2 based upon its radar system. But the US alone plans 2000+ fighters (of course this is all mixed together for under 1 plane in their plan. If Russia removed a lot of the other types and just went with one, we would be looking at close to 1300 or so).

There needs to be some kind of idea they have to further increase the numbers. I know they state as 40% of the airforce will consist of fighters, but the Airforce is now becoming a key component of Russia's military capabilities. The least they could do is increase the number of new and modernized equipment past 700... This is such a small airforce for the size of Russia and the type of enemies they got.

miketheterrible wrote:fairly small number considering who their opponents are.  Of course, there is Russia's air defense systems too.  But still, having a fairly large fighter force would serve them better.  I know they are not counting the Su-24's and Su-34's with Su-34's being capable of similar air to air combat capabilities as that of a Su-30MK2 based upon its radar system.  But the US alone plans 2000+ fighters (of course this is all mixed together for under 1 plane in their plan.  If Russia removed a lot of the other types and just went with one, we would be looking at close to 1300 or so).

There needs to be some kind of idea they have to further increase the numbers.  I know they state as 40% of the airforce will consist of fighters, but the Airforce is now becoming a key component of Russia's military capabilities.  The least they could do is increase the number of new and modernized equipment past 700...  This is such a small airforce for the size of Russia and the type of enemies they got.

I agree however look at our budget and look at America's budget. We're 2nd best with the budget we have... If we had a budget say twice the one from now I'd assume production rates would be outstanding.

VladimirSahin wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:fairly small number considering who their opponents are.  Of course, there is Russia's air defense systems too.  But still, having a fairly large fighter force would serve them better.  I know they are not counting the Su-24's and Su-34's with Su-34's being capable of similar air to air combat capabilities as that of a Su-30MK2 based upon its radar system.  But the US alone plans 2000+ fighters (of course this is all mixed together for under 1 plane in their plan.  If Russia removed a lot of the other types and just went with one, we would be looking at close to 1300 or so).

There needs to be some kind of idea they have to further increase the numbers.  I know they state as 40% of the airforce will consist of fighters, but the Airforce is now becoming a key component of Russia's military capabilities.  The least they could do is increase the number of new and modernized equipment past 700...  This is such a small airforce for the size of Russia and the type of enemies they got.

I agree however look at our budget and look at America's budget. We're 2nd best with the budget we have... If we had a budget say twice the one from now I'd assume production rates would be outstanding.

It is equal roughly.

Russia half as big, and the efficiency is around 70-80% of the US.

Means 700 aircraft cost as much resources as the US 2000.

Anything beyond that require increase in military outlay.

Singular_Transform wrote:

VladimirSahin wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:fairly small number considering who their opponents are.  Of course, there is Russia's air defense systems too.  But still, having a fairly large fighter force would serve them better.  I know they are not counting the Su-24's and Su-34's with Su-34's being capable of similar air to air combat capabilities as that of a Su-30MK2 based upon its radar system.  But the US alone plans 2000+ fighters (of course this is all mixed together for under 1 plane in their plan.  If Russia removed a lot of the other types and just went with one, we would be looking at close to 1300 or so).

There needs to be some kind of idea they have to further increase the numbers.  I know they state as 40% of the airforce will consist of fighters, but the Airforce is now becoming a key component of Russia's military capabilities.  The least they could do is increase the number of new and modernized equipment past 700...  This is such a small airforce for the size of Russia and the type of enemies they got.

I agree however look at our budget and look at America's budget. We're 2nd best with the budget we have... If we had a budget say twice the one from now I'd assume production rates would be outstanding.

It is equal roughly.

Russia half as big, and the efficiency is around 70-80% of the US.

Means 700 aircraft cost as much resources as the US 2000.

Anything beyond that require increase in military outlay.

please don't try. Militarov already called you out on it and your numbers don't come close.

Point is, even with Russia's budget, for how much aircrafts cost, this is too small. Russian su-35S is roughly $27M for Russia and thus cheap enough to field in larger numbers. Su-30SM should be even cheaper then...


Then again, its izvestia. Not exactly prime source of honesty.

miketheterrible wrote:fairly small number considering who their opponents are.  Of course, there is Russia's air defense systems too.  But still, having a fairly large fighter force would serve them better.  I know they are not counting the Su-24's and Su-34's with Su-34's being capable of similar air to air combat capabilities as that of a Su-30MK2 based upon its radar system.  But the US alone plans 2000+ fighters (of course this is all mixed together for under 1 plane in their plan.  If Russia removed a lot of the other types and just went with one, we would be looking at close to 1300 or so).

There needs to be some kind of idea they have to further increase the numbers.  I know they state as 40% of the airforce will consist of fighters, but the Airforce is now becoming a key component of Russia's military capabilities.  The least they could do is increase the number of new and modernized equipment past 700...  This is such a small airforce for the size of Russia and the type of enemies they got.

In the USAF, these fighters are also expected to do the jobs the Su-24/34 do for the VKS. To be more exact in the comparison, the USAF has 36 fighter squadrons mostly of 24 aircraft but some with only 18 (~800). And the USN with the USMC add another 45 squadrons, about half each of 10 and 12 aircraft (~500). Unfortunately this is not counting the Air National Guard and USAF Reserve squadrons which add another 500-600 aircraft for continental US Air Defense.

Yes, but that would indicate alone that the USAF has almost the same number of aircrafts of the RuAF barring maybe ~100 due to the Su-24 and Su-25 in service. Add the USN and it is significantly more. This is the problem with the RuAF. Very little in numbers compared to 1992 in terms of numbers of aircraft. Mind you, I am not counting reserve units of Su-27's and MiG-29's. They need roughly 1K fighters in order to stay relevant in terms of capabilities or be left to become nothing by the USAF and USN in case of a war.

miketheterrible wrote:




please don't try. Militarov already called you out on it and your numbers don't come close.

Point is, even with Russia's budget, for how much aircrafts cost, this is too small. Russian su-35S is roughly $27M for Russia and thus cheap enough to field in larger numbers. Su-30SM should be even cheaper then...


Then again, its izvestia. Not exactly prime source of honesty.

He made statement about saying "the calculation bad" without any supporting calculation / data : ) .

If the country makes 5000 money , and the air plane cost 1 10 money, then if the procurement budget 1% of the GDP (50 money) then you can buy 5 air plane .

Simple, isn't it?


Russia doesn't buy airplanes from dollar, it buying it from rubel.

Singular_Transform wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:




please don't try. Militarov already called you out on it and your numbers don't come close.

Point is, even with Russia's budget, for how much aircrafts cost, this is too small. Russian su-35S is roughly $27M for Russia and thus cheap enough to field in larger numbers. Su-30SM should be even cheaper then...


Then again, its izvestia. Not exactly prime source of honesty.

He made statement about saying "the calculation bad"  without any supporting calculation / data : ) .

If the country makes 5000 money , and the air plane cost 1 10 money, then if the procurement budget 1% of the GDP (50 money) then you can buy 5 air plane .

Simple, isn't it?


Russia doesn't buy airplanes from dollar, it buying it from rubel.

Fully aware of that, but it also takes into account the fact that products are within the country and companies operate, between both sides, two different concept of profit margines.  A lot of calculation is left without much info, especially when you or I do not know exactly how much as been paid for, for a lot of the equipment being procured.  IE: Su-30SM's as an example.

Judging Franco's previous reporting, then Russian military overall has roughly ~900 combat aircraft. Acceptable but needed to be expanded and refurbished. I know they plan to have 500 new build but 200 active modernized? Chances that number will be increased drastically.

franco wrote:

In the USAF, these fighters are also expected to do the jobs the Su-24/34 do for the VKS. To be more exact in the comparison, the USAF has 36 fighter squadrons mostly of 24 aircraft but some with only 18 (~800). And the USN with the USMC add another 45 squadrons, about half each of 10 and 12 aircraft (~500). Unfortunately this is not counting the Air National Guard and USAF Reserve squadrons which add another 500-600 aircraft for continental US Air Defense.

Russia's newest fighters are Su-30SM, Su-35S and Su-34

USA's are F-22, F/A-18E/F and now F-35 which has a lot of problems

USA is still ahead in stealth aircrafts

Stealth part is meaningless. What matters is the capabilities of the jets. F-22 are not bad jets but also have their issues (more than just suffocating pilots. More to do with structure of the jet and costs). What is important is the amount of newer jets and their numbers.

miketheterrible wrote:
Fully aware of that, but it also takes into account the fact that products are within the country and companies operate, between both sides, two different concept of profit margines.  A lot of calculation is left without much info, especially when you or I do not know exactly how much as been paid for, for a lot of the equipment being procured.  IE: Su-30SM's as an example.

Judging Franco's previous reporting, then Russian military overall has roughly ~900 combat aircraft. Acceptable but needed to be expanded and refurbished. I know they plan to have 500 new build but 200 active modernized? Chances that number will be increased drastically.

It is a simplified calculation, of course, but you can't make precise one.

It is quite hard to found actual procurement cost in rubel , and it is hard to found them in dollar as well for US assets .


But it is an non-perfect word, example I won't ever get info about the tested/proven theory of the hydrogen bomb : )

If the plan is for 700 fighters (all in) it's a low number.
NATO, USAFE and one CBG provide a much larger fighter fleet that covers a much smaller geography.

KiloGolf wrote:If the plan is for 700 fighters (all in) it's a low number.
NATO, USAFE and one CBG provide a much larger fighter fleet that covers a much smaller geography.

Nato doesn't have air defence system.

So, it is a compromise.

And US main enemy now is China / India, so only fraction of the full force could be considered against Russia.

Singular_Transform wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:If the plan is for 700 fighters (all in) it's a low number.
NATO, USAFE and one CBG provide a much larger fighter fleet that covers a much smaller geography.

Nato doesn't have air defence system.

So, it is a compromise.

It does, it's called an Air Force and Navy.

KiloGolf wrote:

Singular_Transform wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:If the plan is for 700 fighters (all in) it's a low number.
NATO, USAFE and one CBG provide a much larger fighter fleet that covers a much smaller geography.

Nato doesn't have air defence system.

So, it is a compromise.

It does, it's called an Air Force and Navy.

this isn't accounting Su-34s, 24s and 25s. Things are starting to make some sense. Essentially, the specialized jets will do their tasks while the fighters will cover air support.  Something that US and NATO tries to integrate fully in their single line of jets.  In this case, making it free for the Russian jets to be specialized to their intended rolls while US has to split up those F-16s and 15s to their intended rolls.

But yes, they need far more.  Their previous numbers were massive compared to this.

Just as a note - this was from the infamous "unnamed source" so it is only worth note as gossip and nothing more.

KiloGolf wrote:

Singular_Transform wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:If the plan is for 700 fighters (all in) it's a low number.
NATO, USAFE and one CBG provide a much larger fighter fleet that covers a much smaller geography.

Nato doesn't have air defence system.

So, it is a compromise.

It does, it's called an Air Force and Navy.

Not comparable.

S-400 radar cost as much as a fighter jet, and more capable than anything that you can fit onto an airplane.

And it can work for decades.







The navy can cover only fraction of the land mass,and it is pretty useless against stealth aircraft, due to the distance deficiency.

So many plans for a conventional war with NATzO in this thread. There is not going to be a conventional war with NATzO.
It will a nuclear war and from the first moments of any war (that NATzO will launch, not Russia). Counting how many jets
Russia has ready for conventional war is absurd.

kvs wrote:So many plans for a conventional war with NATzO in this thread. There is not going to be a conventional war with NATzO.
It will a nuclear war and from the first moments of any war (that NATzO will launch, not Russia). Counting how many jets
Russia has ready for conventional war is absurd.

absurd
This is the reason why I haven't fixed my second PDRM 82 up to this point of time.

At the moment I have only one working post apocalyptic Geiger.

If it is not absurd any more at same point of time then I have to decrease the fallout ready capability from 24hours to 30 minutes : )

miketheterrible wrote:fairly small number considering who their opponents are.  Of course, there is Russia's air defense systems too.  But still, having a fairly large fighter force would serve them better.  I know they are not counting the Su-24's and Su-34's with Su-34's being capable of similar air to air combat capabilities as that of a Su-30MK2 based upon its radar system.  But the US alone plans 2000+ fighters (of course this is all mixed together for under 1 plane in their plan.  If Russia removed a lot of the other types and just went with one, we would be looking at close to 1300 or so).

There needs to be some kind of idea they have to further increase the numbers.  I know they state as 40% of the airforce will consist of fighters, but the Airforce is now becoming a key component of Russia's military capabilities.  The least they could do is increase the number of new and modernized equipment past 700...  This is such a small airforce for the size of Russia and the type of enemies they got.

This is not including other types of aircrafts, but also it includes not the numbers about the reserve fighters. According to the current numbers of decent public sources, with the ne production explained in the article, Russia can reach the saturation of their reserves of Air Superiority + Interceptor + Multirole Fighters. Russia would have roughly another 700 aircrafts of these types in the reserve by 2025 (Su-33, Su-27. MiG-29/35, MiG-31, MiG-25 and MiG-23). While obviously would be older than the active aircrafts, all these models remain useful as combat concept if mantained properly.

PS1: I'm not sure about the Su-33 being totally removed from the active service.
PS2: Note that by 2025 it is possible to have the first unit of the MiG-41 (interceptor).

Singular_Transform wrote:

VladimirSahin wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:fairly small number considering who their opponents are.  Of course, there is Russia's air defense systems too.  But still, having a fairly large fighter force would serve them better.  I know they are not counting the Su-24's and Su-34's with Su-34's being capable of similar air to air combat capabilities as that of a Su-30MK2 based upon its radar system.  But the US alone plans 2000+ fighters (of course this is all mixed together for under 1 plane in their plan.  If Russia removed a lot of the other types and just went with one, we would be looking at close to 1300 or so).

There needs to be some kind of idea they have to further increase the numbers.  I know they state as 40% of the airforce will consist of fighters, but the Airforce is now becoming a key component of Russia's military capabilities.  The least they could do is increase the number of new and modernized equipment past 700...  This is such a small airforce for the size of Russia and the type of enemies they got.

I agree however look at our budget and look at America's budget. We're 2nd best with the budget we have... If we had a budget say twice the one from now I'd assume production rates would be outstanding.

It is equal roughly.

Russia half as big, and the efficiency is around 70-80% of the US.

Means 700 aircraft cost as much resources as the US 2000.

Anything beyond that require increase in military outlay.

Well this is totally wrong.

This is not including other types of aircrafts, but also it includes not the numbers about the reserve fighters. According to the current numbers of decent public sources, with the ne production explained in the article, Russia can reach the saturation of their reserves of Air Superiority + Interceptor + Multirole Fighters. Russia would have then roughly another 700 aircrafts of these types in the reserve by 2025 (Su-33, Su-27. MiG-29/35, MiG-31, MiG-25 and MiG-23). While obviously would be older than the active aircrafts, all these models remain useful as combat concept if mantained properly.

PS1: I'm not sure about the Su-33 being totally removed from the active service.
PS2: Note that by 2025 it is possible to have the first unit of the MiG-41 (interceptor).[/quote]

IMO you are being very optimistic concerning the reserve aircraft and the important point is "if maintained properly". They were not and now most are useless pieces of metal.

Singular_Transform wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

Singular_Transform wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:If the plan is for 700 fighters (all in) it's a low number.
NATO, USAFE and one CBG provide a much larger fighter fleet that covers a much smaller geography.

Nato doesn't have air defence system.

So, it is a compromise.

It does, it's called an Air Force and Navy.

Not comparable.

S-400 radar cost as much as a fighter jet, and more capable than anything that you can fit onto an airplane.

And it can work for decades.

The navy can cover only fraction of the land mass,and it is pretty useless against stealth aircraft, due to the distance deficiency.

It's the same if not better.
Tens of ships SM-3/6 or Aster 30 and nearly a thousand of planes with AIM-120, Meteor and so on. It works and spreads the risk quite well.