Project 885: Yasen class

Yes, first sea trials.

Not a proper technical term for a ship but implies a fairly short trip.

hoom wrote:Yes, first sea trials.

Not a proper technical term for a ship but implies a fairly short trip.

It`s a literal translation of "выход в море".

It would be nice if some Russian explained the difference between all three trial types - shtartovniye, khodoviye and gosispitaniya.

It`s a literal translation of "выход в море".

I meant Outing isn't a proper technical term, I was being informal, didn't mean to cause confusion.

verkhoturye51 wrote:It would be nice if some Russian explained the difference between all three trial types - shtartovniye, khodoviye and gosispitaniya.

Швартовые - shwartowye - trials within the port, at the end of fitting out. Mooring equipment is being tested, main and auxiliary propulsion tested on idle, without powering the shafts for drive. the ship is being trimmed, ballasted and tested by the list - кренование.

Ходовые - Khodovye - real sea trials. All main and auxiliary machinery tested on fuel consumption, power and speed. Ship`s maritime capabilities are being tested. Navigational equipment and electronics also. The deficiencies are being corrected in shipyard.

Государственные - приёмные испытания - State trials before commissioning. All machinery tested again, navigational and electronic equipment. All armament testing. The ship sails back to shipyard for zero refit and correcting all defficiencies. When the final round of trials is completed, ship enters service, combat flag is risen.

Maybe I`ve made some mistakes, but all in all this is the procedure.

Please make corrections where needed. I think there are too many children on this forum, without real experience. I have knowledge from yugoslav navy, now disbanded, so procedure may differ.

Gorshkov seems to have had more tests than that.

Isos wrote:Gorshkov seems to have had more tests than that.

Every stage of trials has multiple phases. If ship fails to reach asked standards, she returns to builders for refit and corrections. Than the trials are run again. In case of Gorshkov delays may last for a few years as we can see. Lead ships of a class, or prototypes, usually take longer to build and to finish trials, as they are newly projected from scratch and mount new equipment and/or armament.

kumbor wrote:

Isos wrote:Gorshkov seems to have had more tests than that.

Every stage of trials has multiple phases. If ship fails to reach asked standards, she returns to builders for refit and corrections. Than the trials are run again. In case of Gorshkov delays may last for a few years as we can see. Lead ships of a class, or prototypes, usually take longer to build and to finish trials, as they are newly projected from scratch and mount new equipment and/or armament.

nto to mention that the whole documentation and tech specs must be updated.

Not a very flattering assessment at all of the Project 885M.

https://vpk-news.ru/articles/45818

The author basically thinks the technology and combat systems incorporated are still largely untested and immature, even inadequate in comparison to contemporary 5th generation systems. He contends that way too much funding for the navy is being eaten up by a submarine project like this, and instead proper completion of R&D and testing should be carried out, thus slowing production and freeing up resources for surface ships and the naval aviation.

Certainly pours some cold water over the hype sometimes surrounding this particular sub. IMO critical analysis is never a bad thing, and differing perspectives should not be discounted outright without examination. The issue holds particular relevance given the Navy's own 2017 revision of the "Foundations of the Russian Federation Naval Policy Until 2030", which prioritizes the development of undersea forces centered around the deployment of 955's and 885's.

https://www.cna.org/CNA_files/PDF/IOP-2018-U-018268-Final.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2qPqYW2SJytdWyv6HFCOtXnoKWJC1zFdMs_vcAJWZAuijYP_o3BpxuZ4k

Russia’s Yasen-class nuclear attack submarine Kazan to begin state trials next summer

More:
http://tass.com/defense/1034816

George1 wrote:Russia’s Yasen-class nuclear attack submarine Kazan to begin state trials next summer

More:
http://tass.com/defense/1034816

They sure as hell are taking their sweet time...

They sure as hell are taking their sweet time...

It was poking around Faslane undetected earlier in the year started builders trials in Nov & North ices over in Winter...

They sure as hell are taking their sweet time...

http://forums.airbase.ru/2018/12/t70309_114--podvodnye-lodki-proekta-885.2764.html wrote:

Kazan to enter state trials in the summer 2019

too optimistic for so complicated ship

Kazan

K-560 "Severodvinsk" nuclear attack submarine

Some interior footage https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201902051630-kem5.htm/player/

Gorshkov seems to have had more tests than that.

Pretty much every Soviet ship bigger than a corvette has had multi tasking capability... ie... they have anti sub and anti ship and anti aircraft weapons of various types no matter what the role... for example, the Udaloy is an anti sub ship but of course has air defence systems and various other defensive systems like the RBU, but its main missile can also sink ships. The Sovremmeny is primarily anti ship but it also has anti sub weapons like the RBU systems and torpedoes, and has a helo which also allows it to multi task.

At the end of the day the ship had a primary role and its main weapons and sensors and propulsion were designed for that, but they also had other weapons and sensors for defensive purposes to engage other targets.

It means for anti sub use you could include a Sov class destroyer that could support the other vessels in their hunt for subs, but also provide extra air defence support and protection if an enemy surface ship arrived too.

The point is that the new ships they are making are fully multirole so the new Gorshkovs are smaller vessels so they are not like super everything ships... they have a limited capacity, but a capacity for a variety of roles... they could lead an anti sub or anti ship or now land attack mission... so there are more variables and more things that need to be fully tested...

Testing will just take longer.

Fortunately, the newer bigger vessels will have the same modules but it will just be scaled up with bigger radar, bigger sonar and more launchers for SAMs and UKSK(-M) launchers so it shouldn't always take so much testing... but lets face it... the propulsion and EMALS problems the Ford has been having... perhaps proper testing is still worth while.

And quite a few test could have been done later, after commissioning the ship, like the tests with the Ka-31 and Ka-52.

Fortunately, the newer bigger vessels will have the same modules but it will just be scaled up with bigger radar, bigger sonar and more launchers for SAMs and UKSK(-M) launchers so it shouldn't always take so much testing.

Weapons are actually tested at the end and pretty fast. It works or it doesn't work and need to be repaired.

But test of the ship itself are pretty long. German frigate proved that even a modern frigate designed and build with modern tech can fail. She came out of the shipyard like a drunk lady that can't walk right

Another factor is that russian navy don't trust russian shipyards anymore like during soviet times. Money is very limitedfor them since air and land armies have priority so they don't want to accept ships that are worth couple of hundred million dollars each and not test everything inside them. And they are right to do so. Look what's going on in the west...

US navy is facing big issues with Zumwalt. Germany is facing big issues with its frigates. French navy has faced issues with its frigate when they tried to launch missiles in Syria. UK destroyers are noisy like WWII cruisers and easy targets for any submarine, they can't even fight back since they don't have the weapons for ASW...

UK destroyers are noisy like WWII cruisers and easy targets for any submarine, they can't even fight back since they don't have the weapons for ASW...

I wonder, how do they plan to defend the QE if she's deployed to Med., Indian Ocean, & esp. the SC Sea!?

Tsavo Lion wrote:

UK destroyers are noisy like WWII cruisers and easy targets for any submarine, they can't even fight back since they don't have the weapons for ASW...

I wonder, how do they plan to defend the QE if she's deployed to Med., Indian Ocean, & esp. the SC Sea!?

Hide behind a USN carrier... and hope the Ruskies/ChiComs chose to shoot at the more valuable target...

Hole wrote:And quite a few test could have been done later, after commissioning the ship, like the tests with the Ka-31 and Ka-52.

Whats the rush? Until Russian MGTs become available there will be no new hulls laid down...

The RuN has clearly decided to temporarily re-allocate funds to other projects and shake down the 22350s until all systems work as intended. They want naval assets that work, not liabilities that fail when the SHTF...

Big_Gazza wrote:

Tsavo Lion wrote:

UK destroyers are noisy like WWII cruisers and easy targets for any submarine, they can't even fight back since they don't have the weapons for ASW...

I wonder, how do they plan to defend the QE if she's deployed to Med., Indian Ocean, & esp. the SC Sea!?

Hide behind a USN carrier...  and hope the Ruskies/ChiComs chose to shoot at the more valuable target...    

Operating together with US CVNs will defeat the purpose of showing their might & worth as a stand-in when the USN is busy elsewhere.
Perhaps they should ask the Indians, Australians &/ Japanese to send their SSKs to cover their asses!

Once Ruskies finally deploy decent coastal missiles now that INF is gone there will be nothing that could save asses of any surface fleet

Another important factor is that with all these EM emissions and signals from all these bits of equipment... can you use everything at the same time...

Does their new EO dazzler system they are deploying on their new Frigates and likely larger vessels allow their own EO systems to operate normally too... what if their new laser jammers effected their own CIWS systems.

It has happened before where the ECM systems and ESM systems prevented their own attack systems from working properly.

I think it was an early setup with the B-1B where its jamming systems prevented its own navigation system from working... these are things that can only be tested when everything is fitted and new stuff will be added all the time through the life of the ship so further testing will always be an issue anyway.

Once Ruskies finally deploy decent coastal missiles now that INF is gone there will be nothing that could save asses of any surface fleet

With the INF treaty gone... land based hypersonic missiles could cover the Med, the arctic, and the northern pacific easily enough and corvettes could return to being just corvettes again...