Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

Chinese 5th Gen Fighter Aircraft "J-20"

No disrespect meant but that last photo of the model even shows a US style behind the cockpit inflight refuelling point covered by doors... it is pretty hard to believe the Chinese have a 5th gen fighter at the prototype stage and yet are interested in buying Su-35s, and even modified RD-33 engines.

Garry all indications are that Chinese are upto something on their FGFA program and the prototype seen is the real thing which will take to the air soon.

I am sure they will be using the reliable AL-31 series of engine to test prototype.

Lets see what comes up , the chinese came up with their FGFA almost a year after PAK-FA made first flight.

It is not just about making a shiny aircraft.

The calculations to make the shape of an aircraft stealthy requires a lot of mathematics, and more important than that it requires precise manufacturing capability and also high tech materials capability.

Considering they are having trouble making decent jet engines I think making a real 5th gen stealth aircraft is beyond them.

Garry those are valid concerns but right now they have something up their sleeve and it looks promising , so lets wait and see how this goes.

BTW compliments of the Season to All ..Hope the New Years bring Happiness in every body life.

I think this puts Russians in good position towards India. There will be no longer evil tongues towards every Russia-India military deal and no more cost escalation problems. China is on a fast track to become leader in region and if India wants to counter it they will have to pay for it.

Same logic can be used as a excuse to secure more Russian India military deals.

I have always thought (given the paranoia towards China in many countries) J-XX will be the cat among the pigeons. Lets see what's next, F-22 variant for Japan etc.

Sure, things will get interesting.

Looks like we have gotten to see the Mig 1.42/1.44.

Sorry, just working off the top of my head... there were two slightly different Mig designs, one was the 1.42 and the other was the 1.44. One was the stealthy model and the other was a flying prototype. We saw the flying prototype but we never saw the stealthy version... perhaps till now.

Looks like a cross between a T-50 and a Mig 1.42 actually.

If it does fly and eventually enter service it will be the first canard equipped stealth fighter.

got this in email communication from APA - Dr Carlo on J-20 posting in full

Australia Air Power on J-20 ,
Dr Carlo Kopp

Over the last few days imagery of what is claimed to be China's new stealth fighter has appeared on a range of Chinese Internet sites. There have been no official disclosures as yet, so many of the claims appearing in the media may only be speculation presented as fact.

The aircraft may be a technology demonstrator or a prototype for a mass production fighter aircraft. The latter is however much more likely, given that the PLA Chief of Air Staff claimed an IOC later in the decade.

What the imagery shows is a large fighter, approaching the size of an F-111, with a canard delta configuration and pair of outward canted all moving vertical tails. This configuration will provide good sustained supersonic cruise performance with a suitable engine type, and good manoeuvre performance in transonic and supersonic regimes.

Of most interest is the stealth shaping, which is considerably better than that seen in the Russian T-50 PAK-FA prototypes and in the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The Chinese design appears to be largely built around the stealth shaping design rules employed in the F-22A Raptor. The chined nose section and canopy are close in appearance to the F-22. The trapezoidal inlets are closest to the F-22, but employ an F-35 style boundary layer control design. The wing fuselage join angle, critical for side aspect stealth, is very similar to the F-22 and superior to the Russian T-50 PAK-FA prototypes and the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The flat lower fuselage is optimal for all aspect wideband stealth. Planform alignment is impossible to assess until in flight imagery becomes available.

The aft fuselage, tailboom, strakes and nozzles are not compatible with high stealth performance, but may only be stop gap measures to expedite flight testing of a prototype. The airframe configuration and aft fuselage would be compatible with an F-22 style 2D TVC nozzle design, or a non-TVC rectangular nozzle designed for controlled infrared emission and radio-frequency stealth.

The PLA have not disclosed the engine type. There are claims that the Russians supplied supercruise capable 117S series engines - these would not be sufficient to extract the full performance potential of this advanced airframe.

The airframe configuration is compatible with ventral and side opening internal weapon bays, and large enough to match or exceed the internal weapons payload of the F-22A Raptor. Internal fuel fraction may also be high, given the fuselage configuration and large internal volume of the big delta wing.

Other unknowns are the intended sensor suite. China has yet to demonstrate an AESA radar, or an advanced indigenous emitter locating system. However, these could become available by the time this airframe enters production.

The size of the airframe, and its evident focus on supersonic persistence, suggests at a minimum an intention to provide a long range interceptor for air control in the Second Island Chain geography. This capability by default would provide the ability to penetrate an opposing IADS to destroy assets like AWACS, other ISR systems, and tankers. Suffice to say, with suitable internal weapons, the design could be employed as a penetrating strike aircraft, in the combat radius class of the F-111 or Su-34 Fullback.

The notion that an F-35 Joint Strike Fighter or F/A-18E/F Super Hornet will be capable of competing against this Chengdu design in air combat, let along penetrate airspace defended by this fighter, is simply absurd.

APA will produce a detailed analysis at a future date, once more technical material becomes available.

Some excellent analysis of this system by Bill Sweetman, Editor of DTI, can be located at:

J-20 - Denial Is Not An Option
China's Stealth Striker

^^^ I was wondering if Mr. Kopp gets enough 7.5-8 hours sleep at night, now that there are "two" PakFa and J-xx to deal with, both fighters likely to be mass produced. Little F-35 in trouble it seems and the saviour "The F-22" is nowhere.

Victor,
Russian-Indian relations are OK. Medvedev was in India a few days ago, not much media hype, but still quite a lot of deals were signed, including FGFA. Mr. Obama was in India a month ago, stupid media was crazy, too much hype, 24 hour channels were even counting in how many cars he was traveling but nothing much substantial. The media seems to love Obama but America overall is a different fish as there are considerable differences between many American and Indian policies mainly considering Pakistan, CISMOA etc agreements.

The future of China's fifth-generation stealth fighter

RIA Novosti

21:06 29/12/2010

In-Depth Coverage RIA Novosti military commentator Ilya Kramnik

December 29 (RIA Novosti) - Both experts and amateurs who have studied the blurred photos of an unfamiliar fighter jet on a runway in China (http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2010/12/chinese-stealth-in-plain-sight-curious.html) have concluded that Beijing has started testing its fifth-generation stealth fighter.

The J-20 prototype is expected to rival the U.S. F-22 and the Russian T-50 fighters. But is China ready to start mass-producing the aircraft? How good is the prototype?

Experts call it a combination of the Russian and U.S. fifth-generation fighters, but that greatly simplifies matters. In the last 20 years, China has been working closely with Russia to develop a modern fighter jet. But the J-20 is not simply a copy of a Russian design. Rather China has tried to build a completely new aircraft based on the technology and knowledge it has gained during its years of cooperation with Russia.

The future of the new Chinese fighter will depend on several factors.

Engine

It is not clear what kind of engine the plane will have. Some say it will use the prospective Chinese-made WS-15 engine with a maximum thrust exceeding 18,000 kg, but the engine is still in the pipeline.

China has been unable to reproduce Russia's highly efficient high-temperature turbofan AL-31F engine, designed in the early 1980s and currently mounted on the Su-27 fighter and its modifications. The engines for Sukhoi planes manufactured in China are made in Russia and then assembled and adjusted in China.

The AL-31F engine is also mounted on China's J-10 fighter planes. The engine's Chinese analogue, the WS-10, is less efficient than the Russian prototype.

Materials

A fifth-generation stealth fighter must be able to evade radar, and so it must be made from modern composite materials. However, China does not produce such materials in commercial amounts, and experts doubt that it can develop and produce them for its Air Force.

Electronics

Electronic equipment, primarily radar, in China stands at approximately the same level as its engines. Chinese designs fall short of the capabilities of their Russian, European and American counterparts. Although China has been gradually narrowing the gap, it still has to import modern electronic equipment for its aircraft.

The best aircraft radar systems are currently made for Russia's Su-30MKK fighters, and China will most likely copy this design. It is not clear how much it will differ in terms of specifications from next-generation Russian or American radar systems.

Weapons

The guided weapons used in the Chinese Air Force were mostly copied from U.S., Israeli and Russian prototypes made in the 1960s through 1980s. China will have to spend a great deal of time and effort to develop its own weapons, even if it borrows elements of prototypes bought from other countries. But foreign producers are becoming increasingly wary of sharing their next-generation technology with China.

Conclusions

Since the 1970s, China has consistently lagged 15 to 20 years behind the world leaders in aircraft manufacturing. This was true of their third- and fourth-generation aircraft, and this appears to be the case with its fifth-generation fighter plane.

The J-20 fighter was produced nearly 20 year after the U.S. YF-22 (the prototype of the mass-produced F-22A), 17 years after the Russian MiG-1.44 (MiG-MFI, or Multifunctional Frontline Fighter), and 14 after Russia's S.37 (Su-47).

If the J-20 is accepted as the prototype for a new series, China will be able to produce a fifth-generation fighter plane within 10 years. If not, it will begin batch production no sooner than 15 or 20 years from now.

No one knows for sure what will happen, but it's certainly not too early to make predictions about the future of the new plane.

Given its traditional policy of aircraft manufacturing, China will most likely create a functional analogue of foreign-made 5G planes that will cost 50% to 80% less than Russian and U.S. models. China will most likely sell the plane in Central Asia, the Middle East, Latin America and Southeast Asia, as well as to the richest African countries.

The export models of the J-20 and the planes of that series made for the Chinese Air Force will have foreign, including Russian, equipment and weapons. Moreover, in the next 20 to 30 years China will have to continue to import modern aircraft technology. Despite the strides made by China's aircraft designers in the last 20 years, China has only slightly narrowed the technological gap dividing it from the global leaders.

The views expressed in this article are the author's and do not necessarily represent those of RIA Novosti.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/china/2010/china-101229-rianovosti01.htm

Air Power Australia

What China's New J-20 Stealth Fighter Means for the F-35 JSF and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet

Assessing the Impact of Exponential Growth Laws on Future Combat Aircraft Design

J-20 should go to a new thread.

btw that thing looks hudge and fat. I will be interesting to see its abilities as a fighter/striker.

Rest assured that that this isn't any Fake news>>


Bill Sweetman from Aviation Weeks made some intresting points

He thinks The JXX is almost as Big as F111 strike aircraft from the 1970s. JXX could be a long range strike plane rather than fighter

The size is estimated at 75ft long far larger than both F22 & T50

He also states This maynot be a genuine prototype and just a tech demonstrator like the (YF23) so could be some massive changes yet.

The engine is stil russian powered and there is news that the chinease are haviing to rely on russian engines for all current fighters including J10 & J11B as well as JXX testing.

Anyways here the 2 page analysis
China's J-20 Stealth Fighter In Taxi Tests | AVIATION WEEK


...& yes the Chinese have something that they have been developing; albeit in a very clandestine way!! The cockpit sure looks a lot like F-22 & the rear engines like SU-47!!

The F22 is a smooth bulky design showing clearly the US approach in design principles, the F 35 is following along the same path, with a few compromises.
The J-20 s nose and front section could have easily been made in the US, the plane is smooth, and bar the canards and the stabiliser fins it looks like it could have been an american design.

The T-50 however, has a wide body, separated engines, possible visibility of the compressor blades, huge wings, TVC with round nozzles, tail boom, and two !! IRST pods and two piece canopy, which even if it does not contribute to RCS, it takes some of the visibility away from the pilot.. not to mention the all moving lerx ..

it is a different design.

Here we go ladies and gentlemen.........a true 'Stealth fighter' for the third world market is born! That boxy fuselage reminds me of the hideous Boeing JSF contender cross bred with the forward fuselage section of the equally hideous Mig-1.44.

China having problems copying the Al-31F, and not having a suitable radar even in the range of the Bars or Kopyo...can't even make the 30 year old RD-33/98........and here we have them starting to pump out these ching chong stealth fighter?

I mean photocopying is going outta style here folks......so lets just try our luck at a 5th Gen. warplane?

Here is some taxi footage

Austin wrote:Air Power Australia

What China's New J-20 Stealth Fighter Means for the F-35 JSF and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet

Assessing the Impact of Exponential Growth Laws on Future Combat Aircraft Design

THAT is not a reliable source every one knows that kropp is pissed because his country did not get the F-22.

Ogannisyan8887 wrote:

Austin wrote:Air Power Australia

What China's New J-20 Stealth Fighter Means for the F-35 JSF and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet

Assessing the Impact of Exponential Growth Laws on Future Combat Aircraft Design

THAT is not a reliable source every one knows that kropp is pissed because his country did not get the F-22.

Never mind that, I think his arguments are valid.

Gates warns over Chinese stealth aircraft

Gates, US defence secretary, said Washington is concerned at Beijing’s development of a new stealth aircraft and long range anti-ship missiles, sounding a warning note at the start of a long awaited trip to China.

Speaking as he flew to Beijing on a visit intended to bolster relations Mr Gates also acknowledged that US intelligence had failed fully to anticipate China’s development of the new J-20 aircraft, photos of which appeared on the internet last week.

“We knew they were working on a stealth aircraft,” he told press travelling with him. “What we’ve seen is that they may be somewhat further ahead in the development of that stealth aircraft than our intelligence had earlier predicted.”

Noting that he had been concerned about China’s development of anti-ship missiles “ever since I took this job” he added, referring to both technologies: “They clearly have potential to put some of our capabilities at risk and we have to pay attention to them; we have to respond appropriately with our own programmes.”

Mystery surrounds Chinese stealth fighter
When around Christmas pictures started appearing of a previously unknown Chinese fighter jet, they triggered a lively debate among military enthusiasts and aviation experts around the world, writes Kathrin Hille in Beijing. Did the nose resemble that of the F-22, the American stealth fighter? Was the rear a copy of Northrop Grumman’s Black Widow or did it look more like a MiG?
The interest is understandable. The photos and videos give first indications of how far China has come on its first stealth fighter, a programme it has been working on for more than ten years. According to US military officials and defence analysts, it is likely to take another ten years until it gains the potential to become a threat.
What the test footage shows is that the 611 Institute in Chengdu, the defence technology group leading the project, has managed to build a hull with stealth characteristics, borrowing heavily from US as well as Russian models.
“But they lack a suitable engine,” says Tai Ming Cheung, an expert on Chinese defence technology at the University of California, San Diego. “Judging from the development cycle of their earlier fighter, the J-10, it will be another eight to ten years until this aircraft can fly.”
He points out that China still lags far behind the US and Russia in both shipbuilding and even more in aviation.
Nevertheless some see the leaked pictures as a message to Robert Gates, the US defence secretary who is visiting China from Sunday. The US has long called for more transparency from China on its weapons programmes. Now Beijing has granted at least a peek through the fence.
Some US analysts fear China’s development of such technologies may help it displace Washington’s influence in the Pacific, bolster its claims over the South China Sea and make it more difficult for the US to defend Taiwan.

The Pentagon chief’s visit to China – his first for over three years – is intended to improve the two countries’ military relations, particularly over issues such as missile defence, nuclear policy and cyber security, ahead of Chinese President Hu Jintao’s trip to Washington starting on January 18.

“My hope is through the strategic dialogue that I’m talking about maybe the need for some of these capabilities is reduced,” Mr Gates said. “A positive, constructive, comprehensive relationship between the US and China is not just in the mutual interest of the two countries; it is in the interest of everybody in the region and I would say across the globe.”

But military ties have been repeatedly cut off by Beijing in the wake of US arms sales to Taiwan and Mr Gates acknowledged that serious discussion of policy and strategy had barely begun.

Mr Gates emphasised that even as the Pentagon was cutting back its spending plans by $78bn over five years, it was prioritising dealing with “some of these anti access programmes” – China’s efforts to impede US access in a possible conflict over Taiwan.

Last week, he said the US would speed up its development of new electronic jammers “to improve the ability to fight and survive in an anti-access environment”.

Military officials also stress development of a new long range, nuclear capable bomber, modernised radars for the F15 fighter jet, a launch vehicle to ensure the US can send satellites into space and new seaborne drone aircraft.

But Mr Gates also sought to put China’s developing capabilities in context, noting that the US would retain an overwhelming advantage in so-called fifth generation aircraft in 2020-2025 and suggesting there was “some question about just how stealthy” China’s new aircraft was.

Adm Robert Willard, the commander of US forces in the Pacific recently said China’s anti-ship ballistic missile, which has a range of more than 1,500km, was now operational. But other US officials have downplayed those claims and Mr Gates also sounded a note of doubt: “I think they are fairly far along, but whether it has actually reached initial operational capability or not, I just don’t know


Looks like Gates finally admits he was wrong.

The J-20 SUCCESSFULLY conducts first flight!!
Pilot's name is Li Gang





Very sexy silhouette.

It has Al-31s there, but WS-10s for its flight video... weird.

Some Chinese fan boys from another Defense forum said that there are in fact 2 Prototypes of the J-20, one with Al-31s and another with WS-10s.