INS Vikrant-Future Indian aircraft carriers

aksha wrote:

Nice first post! But remember to introduce yourself in the member introduction forum.

Vikrant refloated again today. Impressive ship.
Many pictures here:
http://tarmak007.blogspot.co.uk/

after VIKRANT ， Is there any  future AC plan ?    any news? thanks

They should have the IAC-2 Vishal next in line, which could be as big as 65,000 tons and even nuclear powered but as i understand the final configuration has not been chosen yet. Targeted induction is 2025 i think.

The INS Viraat Has Begun Its Final Journey


After nearly 60 years of sailing across the oceans, the Indian Navy's warhorse aircraft carrier, the INS Viraat, is now making her last operational deployment before she is decommissioned or retired later this year.

With more than 1, 200 officers and sailors onboard, the Viraat, which entered service on May 12, 1987, set sail on Monday from Mumbai to Visakhapatnam in Andhra Pradesh, where she will participate early next month in the Navy's massive International Fleet Review (IFR). More than 100 ships from 50 navies from around the world will be at anchorage at Vizag where they will be reviewed at sea by President Pranab Mukherjee and the Prime Minister. IFR 2016 is a key outreach programme of the Indian Navy meant to showcase India's growing importance as a key maritime player in the Indian Ocean region.


Prior to being commissioned into the Indian Navy, the aircraft carrier had served as the HMS Hermes with the Royal Navy and went on to serve with distinction in the 1982 Falklands Islands War against Argentina.

The INS Viraat is headed to Vishakapatnam with her full complement of six Sea Harrier fighter jets, Chetak and Sea King anti-submarine warfare helicopters.


Over the last few years, the Sea Harriers have been incredibly difficult to operate because of the lack of availability of spare parts from the UK. Along with the Sea Harrier, the Navy is operating 6 Sea King anti-submarine warfare choppers onboard the Viraat. Less than 10 Sea King choppers, which were first acquired by India in 1969, are thought to remain operational with the Indian Navy. The Navy has selected the US built Sikorsky S-70B as its Sea King replacement, but the initial contract for 16 of the choppers is yet to be finalised. For now, the Sea Kings are expected to soldier on.


In total, there are 6 Sea Harriers, 4 Chetak and 6 Sea King helicopters onboard - the largest complement of aircraft the Viraat has embarked in years.

INS Viraat is scheduled to arrive in Visakhapatnam by February 4 before she returns to Mumbai for the final time. Last year, the Defence Ministry had written to various coastal states asking them to pay just Rs. 1 if they were keen on acquiring the carrier to convert it into a floating museum. The cost would be at least Rs. 300 crores in addition to which there would be sizeable annual maintenance expenditure.

India's first aircraft carrier, the iconic INS Vikrant, was taken to the ship breakers in November 2014 after being preserved as a museum in Cuffe Parade, Mumbai between 1997 and 2012. Ultimately, no private buyer was willing to acquire the Vikrant which was sold through an online auction for 60 crores to a Darukhana ship-breaker.

It's unclear if INS Viraat will face the same inglorious fate as India's first aircraft carrier.

India is likely to shortly float a tender for a new aircraft carrier, with 54 aircraft on board, according to the French military newsletter TTU. Russia and France would be the primary contenders in the reckoning

India intends to announce a tender for purchase of a new aircraft carrier with 54 aircraft aboard, the French military newsletter TTU stated. According to the publication, the Indian Navy is seeking to purchase an aircraft carrier with a total displacement of 65,000 tons, length of 300 metres, width of 70 metres, and equipped with a nuclear power plant.

According to the Russian military blog bmpd, maintained by employees of the Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST), India is planning to build another aircraft carrier, to be called the ‘Vishal,’ in a domestic shipyard, with foreign assistance.

According to the blog, the main contenders for this contract are France and Russia, because the tender conditions would stipulate compatibility of the air wing of the future ship with the aircraft already in service with the Indian Air Force and Navy. This condition among carrier-based fighters can only be met by the Russian MiG-29K, currently used on the Russian-built Indian aircraft carrier ‘Vikramaditya’, and the French Rafale M, harmonized with the land modification of this machine, which the Indian Air Force will be buying in the near future.

It is possible that a carrier-based version of the fifth generation fighter FGFA, currently being designed for the Indian Air Force, could be built in the future, based on the Russian T-50 project (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation – PAK FA). Earlier in February, a report came out on development of a carrier-based variant of the fifth generation fighter aircraft for the Russian Navy (Prospective Airborne Complex of Ship-borne Aviation – PAK SA).

Information was released in the summer of 2015 that claimed the Indian Navy had sent a request for construction of an aircraft carrier to four potential contractors, among which were Russia, France, Britain, and the United States.

The Indian Navy currently has two aircraft carriers; the 45,000-ton Vikramaditya, (rebuilt from 2004 to 2011 from the former Soviet carrier Admiral Gorshkov), which entered into service in 2013, and the 28,000-ton aircraft carrier ‘Viraat’, formerly the British aircraft carrier Hermes, built in England in 1959, and bought by India in 1985. ‘Viraat’ will be replaced in 2018 by the new 37,000-ton aircraft carrier ‘Vikrant’, which is now being completed in India with Russian and Italian assistance. The Vikrant will also be equipped with Russian-built MiG-29K jets.

http://in.rbth.com/economics/defence/2016/02/26/russia-and-france-in-running-for-new-indian-carrier_570929

India will reportedly shortly announce a tendering procedure for building its fourth aircraft carrier. A new Russian project called “Storm”, which was made public last year, is said to be among the front runners.

India’s plans to have a new aircraft carrier have been floating around for some time. French defense newsletter TTU reported that a French delegation visited India in late January to propose the naval version of the Dassault Rafale jet to complement its future bid. The US is also eyeing the lucrative contract.

However, according to the Izvestia newspaper, the Russian project is the favorite in the upcoming tender. Russia's Krylovsky State Research Center (KRSC) will be offering its new multipurpose heavy aircraft carrier design called Project 23000E Shtorm (Storm). The project was first revealed to the public in June at the Army-2015 show near Moscow, where a scale model of the ship was exhibited.

The design has a displacement of up to 100,000 tons, is 330 meters long, 40 meters wide, and has a draft of 11 meters. It has a nuclear power plant, although initial plans state a conventional one may also be used. The ship is designed to sail at up to 30 knots (around 55 km/h) and withstand sea state 6-7 (characterized by waves up to 9 meters high).


The carrier can remain 120 days at sea before needing a port. It will have a crew of 4,000 to 5,000 and deploy up to 100 aircraft. The air wing will include naval versions of T-50s (PAK FA) currently in development and MiG-29Ks, as well as early warning radar aircraft, most likely Yak-44Es.

The flight deck is of dual design and features four launching positions. Two have ski-jump ramps and the other two have electromagnetic catapults to enable take-off from a shortened runway.

The Russian bid is favored by the Indians partly because Moscow is willing to allow bigger technology transfers than the French and American contenders, Izvestia said. A program called Make in India launched by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in 2014 seeks to stimulate domestic production of high-tech products, including military hardware.

Russia enjoys strong defense cooperation with India, including its navy. One of the country’s two serving aircraft carriers, the INS Vikramaditya, is a Kiev-class Soviet ship, which was rebuilt by Russia. The other, the INS Viraat – formerly the HMS Hermes of the British Royal Navy – is to be decommissioned in June and replaced in 2018 with its first domestically build aircraft carrier of the Vikrant class, which Russia helped design and build in a joint effort with Italy.

India is also cooperating with Russia in aircraft design and production. An “Indian” version of the PAK FA is being developed, which facilitates India’s domestic acquisition of aircraft for the future carrier. The Indian Navy is already the prime user of MiG-29Ks.

https://www.rt.com/news/334142-india-aircraf-carrier-tender/

All speculation at the moment. Media seems to be getting everything wrong.
Its very much likely that before INS Vishal, which will not come before 2028, we are looking for an enlarged INS VIKRANT, a 50k ton STOBAR carrier with capacity of 40 fixed/rotary wing aircrafts.

This seems pretty close to the lone Russian Aircraft Carrier, and that's why news was there that India may seek Russian help to build it.

But it will neither be Russia nor France nor USA for an enlarged INS Vikrant before INS Vishal rather we will stick with Italy.

http://www.news18.com/news/india/indias-vikrant-aircraft-carrier-could-get-russian-weaponry-1233013.html

Russia could supply air defence systems and other equipment to the Indian Vikrant-class aircraft carrier currently under construction, the head of Russian conglomerate Rostec has said.

Viktor Kladov, head of the International Cooperation Department of Russia's state technology corporation Rostec, said: "Guidance systems, air defence systems, as well as various systems of airborne weaponry, including anti-aircraft, could be supplied on board the aircraft carrier. An aircraft carrier is a vast platform and we have something to offer to our partners," Kladov told RIA Novosti in an interview, Sputnik News reported.

The first of the Vikrant-class aircraft carriers, the INS Vikramaditya, is Russian-built.

The second vessel of the class, INS Vikrant, is set to become India's first indigenous carrier. However, according to Kladov, India still needs Russia's technical assistance in various aspects of the INS Vikrant project.

The Navy on Wednesday said it has set a target of 2018 for inducting its first indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC) and is “seriously considering” about having a second such ship.

Indian navy has set the target of having 212 ships in its fleet by 2027 which will be a “real challenge” and there is a need to work “very hard” for it, Vice Admiral (Controller Warship Production and Acquisition) G S Pabby told reporters.

The government is seriously considering IAC-2 and it is in “concept” stage, he said. The Information Exchange Annex signed between India and the US will benefit the navy in its IAC-1 project, Pabby said.
“Since the Americans have a good experience as they have
commissioned a large number of ships, we are hoping that we will draw from their experience,” the senior navy officer said.

For getting technologies available with the US, an agreement and protocol for sharing information — maintaining its confidentiality and integrity — was needed to be signed. The Information Exchange Annex is that protocol.

Since then, a team of senior US Navy officials has visited the shipyard at Cochin last month to help with some issues in the IAC-1.
Contracts for transfer of technology about the Mine Countermeasures Vessels (MCMV) or minesweepers should be signed soon, he said.

“It is moving very well. We are monitoring it very closely because we badly need these ships. We have finalised almost all issues related to transfer of technology from the foreign collaborators and that contract should be signed very soon,” he said.

When asked about the Landing Platform Docks (LDP) for the Indian Navy, the Vice Admiral said the technical evaluation has been carried out for the project and there are some issues about capacity assessment, which is also in final stages.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/navy-aims-to-induct-first-indigenous-aircraft-carrier-by-2018-3031443/

image hoster

India will reportedly shortly announce a tendering procedure for constructing its fourth aircraft carrier. A new Russian project called “Storm”, which was made public last year, is said to be among the front runners.

India’s plans to have a new aircraft carrier have been floating around for some time. French defense newsletter TTU reported that a French delegation visited India in late January to propose the naval version of the Dassault Rafale jet to complement its future bid. The US is also eyeing the lucrative contract.

However, according to the Izvestia newspaper, the Russian project is the favorite in the upcoming tender.

Russia’s Krylovsky State Research Center (KRSC) will be offering its new multipurpose heavy aircraft carrier design called Project 23000E Shtorm (Storm). The project was first revealed to the public in June at the Army-2015 show near Moscow, where a scale model of the ship was exhibited.

The design has a displacement of up to 100,000 tons, is 330 meters long, 40 meters wide, and has a draft of 11 meters. It has a nuclear power plant, although initial plans state a conventional one may also be used. The ship is designed to sail at up to 30 knots (around 55 km/h) and withstand sea state 6-7 (characterized by waves up to 9 meters high).

The carrier can remain 120 days at sea before needing a port. It will have a crew of 4,000 to 5,000 and deploy up to 100 aircraft. The air wing will include naval versions of T-50s (PAK FA) currently in development and MiG-29Ks, as well as early warning radar aircraft, most likely Yak-44Es.

The flight deck is of dual design and features four launching positions. Two have ski-jump ramps and the other two have electromagnetic catapults to enable take-off from a shortened runway.

The Russian bid is favored by the Indians partly because Moscow is willing to allow bigger technology transfers than the French and American contenders, Izvestia said. A program called Make in India launched by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in 2014 seeks to stimulate domestic production of high-tech products, including military hardware.

Russia enjoys strong defense cooperation with India, including its navy. One of the country’s two serving aircraft carriers, the INS Vikramaditya, is a Kiev-class Soviet ship, which was rebuilt by Russia. The other, the INS Viraat – formerly the HMS Hermes of the British Royal Navy – is to be decommissioned in June and replaced in 2018 with its first domestically build aircraft carrier of the Vikrant class, which Russia helped design and build in a joint effort with Italy.

India is also cooperating with Russia in aircraft design and production. An “Indian” version of the PAK FA is being developed, which facilitates India’s domestic acquisition of aircraft for the future carrier. The Indian Navy is already the prime user of MiG-29Ks.

http://www.defencenews.in/article/India-will-shortly-announce-the-construction-of-its-4th-Aircraft-Carrier-3229

Earlier, in 2015, the parliamentary defense committee of India indicated that the cost of an aircraft carrier Vikrant, executed under the STOBAR scheme (short take off but arrested recovery), would exceed 193.41 billion rupees ( 2.82 billion dollars), which is six times higher than the initially approved budget of 32.61 billion rupees. Navy officials indicated at the time that this amount could further increase further and ultimately exceed $ 4 billion.

So a carrier that was supposed to cost 32 billion ended up costing 193 billion and may end up costing almost double the 193 billion... so the carrier they got from the Russians was actually a bargain... because it was including the aircraft...

Russia could buy back ex-Kiev &/ ex-Minsk from China, rebuild & sell them to India for le$$! that's what they should have asked Russia to do!
Missing in action: India's aircraft carriers

The Indian Navy from its earliest days envisioned the acquisition of two light fleet carriers, which would over time be replaced by four fleet carriers. The navy’s vision notwithstanding, these wish lists were clearly divorced both from India’s broader national security goals and the reality of its resource limitations.
That said, the India of today is very different from the India of 60 years ago, both in terms of its more expansive national security goals and its economic power. ..
Today, anti-ship missile technology immensely outstrips the range of carrier aviation, submarines present a graver threat to all things afloat than any time before and the probability of detecting surface forces has increased exponentially.
However, should India envision the employment of naval power to project power far from its own shores, then despite its historical record and contemporary developments, the possession of a carrier will become indispensable.
In this case, the central debate in India should not be about whether it should get more carriers or not, nor should it be about how many.
Rather, the debate should be about the development of the relevant tactics and technologies that allow for carrier operations far from it shores in a high-end conflict. This in turn necessitates serious thinking about the doctrinal role of a carrier (sea base/scouting for the fleet/deliver pulses of aerial bombardment/capital ship/naval diplomacy) along with what the wider fleet structure should be (given that a carrier is inseparable from its battle group).
For if the crown is to be seen not just in court, but on the field of battle as well, then the jewel had best not fall off before the battle even commences.

Well written, & good luck to them!

GarryB wrote:Earlier, in 2015, the parliamentary defense committee of India indicated that the cost of an aircraft carrier Vikrant, executed under the STOBAR scheme (short take off but arrested recovery), would exceed 193.41 billion rupees ( 2.82 billion dollars), which is six times higher than the initially approved budget of 32.61 billion rupees. Navy officials indicated at the time that this amount could further increase further and ultimately exceed $ 4 billion.

So a carrier that was supposed to cost 32 billion ended up costing 193 billion and may end up costing almost double the 193 billion... so the carrier they got from the Russians was actually a bargain... because it was including the aircraft...

You can't build a Cavour class carrier for 32 billion rupees, that is the cost of a modest $400 million frigate.  The Italians built theirs for under $2 billion in 2010, $2.8 billion for India is a bit steep even considering inflation but I guess there are growing pain costs.  

Tsavo Lion wrote:Russia could buy back ex-Kiev &/ ex-Minsk from China, rebuild & sell them to India for le$$! that's what they should have asked Russia to do!

India was trying to modernise her shipbuilding techniques.  Buying rust buckets not fit for purpose back from China is not the answer.

There is nothing cheap about aircraft carriers... if you don't want to get wet then don't get into the pool.

My problem isn't with the cost of the Indian carrier... they did it themselves... good on them.... any money spent was spent in their economy on skills for their people... my problem is the whining about the cost of the carrier the Russians sold them which included aircraft...

You can't build a Cavour class carrier for 32 billion rupees, that is the cost of a modest $400 million frigate.  The Italians built theirs for under $2 billion in 2010, $2.8 billion for India is a bit steep even considering inflation but I guess there are growing pain costs.  

For small carriers, its not bad at all. Specially if it can allow the launch of mig-29k and not only VTOL which make the carrier looks like a helicopter carrier rather than a real aircraft carrier. The biger onesare much more expensive and oblige you to buy more airplanes which makes it even more expensive.

Indian can always upgrade it with a 5th generation fighter to replace mig-29 while italians can only use Harrier or f-35 (if it was designed for?).

Dassault said the rafale could also be used with skijump. I wonder if indians will test it.

And like Garry said indian build their in their own shipyards  and paid their own workers.

GarryB wrote:There is nothing cheap about aircraft carriers... if you don't want to get wet then don't get into the pool.

My problem isn't with the cost of the Indian carrier... they did it themselves... good on them.... any money spent was spent in their economy on skills for their people... my problem is the whining about the cost of the carrier the Russians sold them which included aircraft...

It is definitely an expensive game to play. The problem for GoI is they think just because they can make a hull that it will be four times cheaper than the OEM that designed and built it. Now they are facing all kinds of time and cost overruns because the pieces they imported don't fit.

The Indians have a right to be upset over Gorshokov, we promised them pie in the sky and did a bait and switch. It is really both of our faults as they should have demanded a deep inspection before money was transferred.

The Indians have a right to be upset over Gorshokov, we promised them pie in the sky and did a bait and switch. It is really both of our faults as they should have demanded a deep inspection before money was transferred.

They needed a carrier fast, if there was a better option they should have taken it... there was no other option.

The Russians could have pulled a fast one and painted over the stuff that needed replacing and just handed them a piece of shit.

Even at 2.5 billion including air group it is still actually rather cheap... at the end of the day if they didn't want it it could have ended up like the Algerian MiG-29SMTs and gone to the Russian military... but of course there was noone who could offer them bigger and better for the same price.

Plus having followed the whole protracted deal... it did not appear to me that they were loose with their money... they wanted a carrier fast but still took 10 years to talk about it...

GarryB wrote:

They needed a carrier fast, if there was a better option they should have taken it... there was no other option.

The Russians could have pulled a fast one and painted over the stuff that needed replacing and just handed them a piece of shit.

Even at 2.5 billion including air group it is still actually rather cheap... at the end of the day if they didn't want it it could have ended up like the Algerian MiG-29SMTs and gone to the Russian military... but of course there was noone who could offer them bigger and better for the same price.

Plus having followed the whole protracted deal... it did not appear to me that they were loose with their money... they wanted a carrier fast but still took 10 years to talk about it...

What we should have done was a deep inspection at the outset and told them the real price. I am afraid much trust has been lost between the two nations because of it. You will find that India is never loose with their money, they pride themselves on getting a good value for money.

What we should have done was a deep inspection at the outset and told them the real price. I am afraid much trust has been lost between the two nations because of it. You will find that India is never loose with their money, they pride themselves on getting a good value for money

They are not stupid. They know a carrier won't have the same price as a frigate.

Look what happened to the rafale price. It's their fault that they pay things expensively. And I'm pretty sure they corruption is a big part of these prices.

Isos wrote:

They are not stupid. They know a carrier won't have the same price as a frigate.

Look what happened to the rafale price. It's their fault that they pay things expensively. And I'm pretty sure they corruption is a big part of these prices.

The price the Indians are paying for the Rafale is below both Egypt and Qatar and also getting a more advanced version.  How is that corruption?  The real corruption is at HAL that is taking knock down kits they buy from us at reduced prices and sending an inflated bill to the MoD claiming the MKI were built indigenously.

The competition for the MRCA in India was pretty clearly to a budget of 10 billion dollars... it was totally dishonest to enter the competition with the Rafale and then once they "won" say they want 22 billion for the aircraft they needed.

Totally corrupt... and no real excuse either... everything was laid out.

Regarding the ships the issues found were not made up and could have been foreseen by both sides... even at 2.5 billion it was a cheap deal as it included the air group too... the original deal was stupid... practically a give away... yet it still took 10 years for them to sign off on it...

But lets face it... a real deep inspection and the Indians would probably have rejected it outright and they would have no carrier right now.

It is hard to say what the Russian navy might have decided from there... perhaps they might have upgraded it and put it into Russian service... hard to say.