Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues
ultron wrote:If the job is not finished in Syria, the day Russia is invaded would not be far. What would Putin do? Negotiate a ceasefire when a multi national alliance is at the doorstep of Moscow? I don't think a ceasefire would work out at that point
ultron wrote:
This is not up to Russia. Syria is a UN member. Even if Russia will not provide military aid, Iran will. Iran has 80 million people and they are hardcore Shia who are not afraid to fall in battle. Even if Russia stops aid to Syria, the war in Syria will not end because you cannot negotiate with jihadists. There are no moderate rebels in Syria. All of them are Qaeda types.
what kind of message Russia is sending to every other Now Russia telling syria to not fight all terrorist , to not liberate all its territories. because the are making a "peace deal" that will only benefit them. 
and not much Syria. Fail policy indeed.Vann7 wrote:ultron wrote:
This is not up to Russia. Syria is a UN member. Even if Russia will not provide military aid, Iran will. Iran has 80 million people and they are hardcore Shia who are not afraid to fall in battle. Even if Russia stops aid to Syria, the war in Syria will not end because you cannot negotiate with jihadists. There are no moderate rebels in Syria. All of them are Qaeda types.
But thats is not what Russia now says.. Russia use the moderate bullshit like Obama.
Russia saw for 4 years Turkey aiding Alqaeda and ISIS and NATO smulging tons of weapons there and they did nothing to stop it. and only enter in the conflict when Syria was close to collapse.
how "good diplomacy" is that? At very least they should have sent 20,000 strong mercenaries to allow Syria hold IDLIB and Latakia ,so later dont need to recapture it.
Russia allowed the coup in Kiev to happen.. "good diplomacy" maybe.. but their foreign policy sucks big time. Russia should have helped Yakunovych to hold power and did nothing. If Russia agree with NATO and Turkey conditions that northern Syria buffer zone ,then Who is going to take seriously Russia after that?
Who will want to be ally with Russia if in the time of crisis they negotiate with their enemies to give them what they want ? Russia foreign policy sucks donkey balls. is terrible. Is only good in
freezing conflicts and nothing else. Is a passive foreign policy. they wait things to get really bad ,to start trying to "solve it". It was a real mistake of Russia to ever making an alliance with anyone in middle east . because Americans and Israel is there and it give the false illusion that Russia will stand with them to the end ,in case of war and thats not the case.
It will have been much better if Syria was just another jordan..a puppet state of Israel and
Russia not have to defend them. But Russia goes an encourage them to be "patriotic" and
to fight for their independence and later they are left alone when in need.
How dissappointed Syrians will be to know Russia is negotiating with Syrian enemies the annexation of their northern part.
nation in the world that wanted to consider Russia as their strategic ally? that they will be better
off ,to keep distance of Russia and avoid any kind of retaliation from the west.and what kind of message Russia is sending Europe who wants to be free? that Russia will not help them to the end in times of war.
Russia need to either be like China ,100% self centered.. or to be 100% fully supportive of any ally . But to give false expectations to Nations it seeks alliance is wrong. Russia do a major damage to other nations by offering a false picture of the kind of support they will receive from
them. That said.. it was a mistake for Russia to ever making any alliance with anyone in middle east. There will be no wars there and all nations be like Lebanon or Jordan and NATO controlled it. Russia total absence of middle east ,will have allowed those countries to understand they are
alone ,on their own ,and that it cannot be possible for them to oppose the western imperialism.
ultron wrote:Vann7 wrote:ultron wrote:
This is not up to Russia. Syria is a UN member. Even if Russia will not provide military aid, Iran will. Iran has 80 million people and they are hardcore Shia who are not afraid to fall in battle. Even if Russia stops aid to Syria, the war in Syria will not end because you cannot negotiate with jihadists. There are no moderate rebels in Syria. All of them are Qaeda types.
But thats is not what Russia now says.. Russia use the moderate bullshit like Obama.
Russia saw for 4 years Turkey aiding Alqaeda and ISIS and NATO smulging tons of weapons there and they did nothing to stop it. and only enter in the conflict when Syria was close to collapse.
how "good diplomacy" is that? At very least they should have sent 20,000 strong mercenaries to allow Syria hold IDLIB and Latakia ,so later dont need to recapture it.
Russia allowed the coup in Kiev to happen.. "good diplomacy" maybe.. but their foreign policy sucks big time. Russia should have helped Yakunovych to hold power and did nothing. If Russia agree with NATO and Turkey conditions that northern Syria buffer zone ,then Who is going to take seriously Russia after that?
Who will want to be ally with Russia if in the time of crisis they negotiate with their enemies to give them what they want ? Russia foreign policy sucks donkey balls. is terrible. Is only good in
freezing conflicts and nothing else. Is a passive foreign policy. they wait things to get really bad ,to start trying to "solve it". It was a real mistake of Russia to ever making an alliance with anyone in middle east . because Americans and Israel is there and it give the false illusion that Russia will stand with them to the end ,in case of war and thats not the case.
It will have been much better if Syria was just another jordan..a puppet state of Israel and
Russia not have to defend them. But Russia goes an encourage them to be "patriotic" and
to fight for their independence and later they are left alone when in need.
How dissappointed Syrians will be to know Russia is negotiating with Syrian enemies the annexation of their northern part.
nation in the world that wanted to consider Russia as their strategic ally? that they will be better
off ,to keep distance of Russia and avoid any kind of retaliation from the west.and what kind of message Russia is sending Europe who wants to be free? that Russia will not help them to the end in times of war.
Russia need to either be like China ,100% self centered.. or to be 100% fully supportive of any ally . But to give false expectations to Nations it seeks alliance is wrong. Russia do a major damage to other nations by offering a false picture of the kind of support they will receive from
them. That said.. it was a mistake for Russia to ever making any alliance with anyone in middle east. There will be no wars there and all nations be like Lebanon or Jordan and NATO controlled it. Russia total absence of middle east ,will have allowed those countries to understand they are
alone ,on their own ,and that it cannot be possible for them to oppose the western imperialism.
Freezing conflict won't work in Syria. Jihadists are those never surrender types. They never negotiate with anyone. The war in Syria cannot end even if Russia wants it to end.
ultron wrote:Vann7 wrote:ultron wrote:Russia warns Assad not to take back the whole country.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-russia-syria-envoy-idUSKCN0VR240
This is exactly what i told..
So much Blood in Syria and Russia pretty much is saying will not finish the job and will freeze
the country. Officially Russia is pushing for allowing most northern Syria to be occupied by Turkey and NATO ,and negotiate and independence for the kurds.
So make no mistake ,the zones not liberated this year or until this summer will be annexed
officially by Turkey or Americans away from Syria.. and with Russia complicity.
Russia only interest is the war to stop and not that Syria recover all its territory.
Churkin even went as far as to remember Assad ,that the advances they had were thanks to
them , in other words and indirect way that if Assad do not obey Russia they will stop helping them.
So effectively Russia agree with Merkel proposed Safe zone ,what Turkey was demanding from NATO. Just that only in land and not in air.
Russia is expert in winning wars in combat ,but later losing them with diplomacy.
They got NOTHING for reparations of Germany attack in world war 2 , a piece of land in kaliningrad that is land locked and very difficult to defend. While Americans got permanently bases in All germany almost without fighting for it. and look at the cuban missile crisis?
It made a deal ,that only allowed Russia to avoid confrontation with US ,but that killed Cuba
with an Embargo of 50 years. It lost Crimea in a terrible deal with Ukraine after it declared its independence,and lost a lot of its business and warships. The only exception was Donetsk and lugansk..that got a really good deal. but overall , Russia is expert in unfinished wars ,unfinished business that they do with the intention to stop wars and the only thing they get is a temporary
end of the fighting. At any time Those unfinished conflicts that Russia do not fully solve ,will push Russia into fighting again later over the same conflict.
Look at Moldova ,trasnistria issue ,americans can restart the war at any time. Look at the Georgia ,abkhazia issue. Solving problems only using your interest in mind and not of the nation affected will not create ever peace. It seems Russia hopes ,that by giving most of northern Syria to NATO peace will return to Syria to the nation it was.. how wrong they war.
Look the palestinian conflict and is exactly the kind of scenarior we will see in Northern Syria.
With Turkey allowed to invade it and control it ,officially allowing to annex that part of land.
This is not up to Russia. Syria is a UN member. Even if Russia will not provide military aid, Iran will. Iran has 80 million people and they are hardcore Shia who are not afraid to fall in battle. Even if Russia stops aid to Syria, the war in Syria will not end because you cannot negotiate with jihadists. There are no moderate rebels in Syria. All of them are Qaeda types.
Vann7 wrote:ultron wrote:Vann7 wrote:ultron wrote:
This is not up to Russia. Syria is a UN member. Even if Russia will not provide military aid, Iran will. Iran has 80 million people and they are hardcore Shia who are not afraid to fall in battle. Even if Russia stops aid to Syria, the war in Syria will not end because you cannot negotiate with jihadists. There are no moderate rebels in Syria. All of them are Qaeda types.
But thats is not what Russia now says.. Russia use the moderate bullshit like Obama.
Russia saw for 4 years Turkey aiding Alqaeda and ISIS and NATO smulging tons of weapons there and they did nothing to stop it. and only enter in the conflict when Syria was close to collapse.
how "good diplomacy" is that? At very least they should have sent 20,000 strong mercenaries to allow Syria hold IDLIB and Latakia ,so later dont need to recapture it.
Russia allowed the coup in Kiev to happen.. "good diplomacy" maybe.. but their foreign policy sucks big time. Russia should have helped Yakunovych to hold power and did nothing. If Russia agree with NATO and Turkey conditions that northern Syria buffer zone ,then Who is going to take seriously Russia after that?
Who will want to be ally with Russia if in the time of crisis they negotiate with their enemies to give them what they want ? Russia foreign policy sucks donkey balls. is terrible. Is only good in
freezing conflicts and nothing else. Is a passive foreign policy. they wait things to get really bad ,to start trying to "solve it". It was a real mistake of Russia to ever making an alliance with anyone in middle east . because Americans and Israel is there and it give the false illusion that Russia will stand with them to the end ,in case of war and thats not the case.
It will have been much better if Syria was just another jordan..a puppet state of Israel and
Russia not have to defend them. But Russia goes an encourage them to be "patriotic" and
to fight for their independence and later they are left alone when in need.
How dissappointed Syrians will be to know Russia is negotiating with Syrian enemies the annexation of their northern part.
nation in the world that wanted to consider Russia as their strategic ally? that they will be better
off ,to keep distance of Russia and avoid any kind of retaliation from the west.and what kind of message Russia is sending Europe who wants to be free? that Russia will not help them to the end in times of war.
Russia need to either be like China ,100% self centered.. or to be 100% fully supportive of any ally . But to give false expectations to Nations it seeks alliance is wrong. Russia do a major damage to other nations by offering a false picture of the kind of support they will receive from
them. That said.. it was a mistake for Russia to ever making any alliance with anyone in middle east. There will be no wars there and all nations be like Lebanon or Jordan and NATO controlled it. Russia total absence of middle east ,will have allowed those countries to understand they are
alone ,on their own ,and that it cannot be possible for them to oppose the western imperialism.
Freezing conflict won't work in Syria. Jihadists are those never surrender types. They never negotiate with anyone. The war in Syria cannot end even if Russia wants it to end.
EXACTLY!!!
The war in Syria will NOT end until all terrorist defeated all of them. Allowing NATO to control
northern Syria is basically a defeat . it will give terrorist a sense of a small victory ,and a small caliphate created in northern Syria for Alqaeda and Isis in northern Aleppo. and Raqqa possibly too. Russia is trying to negotiate land for peace and thats not going to work. Unless they have plans to continue fighting by stealth , i don't think the solution will be ever political in Syria.
but military one.
it will have been far better if Russia did not ever made any alliance with anyone in middle east
that way ,Syrians will understand will be alone and cannot oppose to western policies. Better for Syria to be another just another puppet state and friends with the evil Israel and manage to get Americans maintain Syria as fully secular nation and even have no friendship with IRAN or Russia ,than to be in civil wars for decades and with Americans arming terrorist.
Said in other way , if Russia have no plans to confront Americans to the end in defense of any nation ,they should better stay away from any US interest .Because otherwise it will incite small nations to defend their nation sovereignty when they do not have the capabilities to do it on
their own.
PapaDragon wrote:
I see that a lot of folks here a determined to render ignore function redundant by constantly quoting verified trolls...
d_taddei2 wrote:
i can understand where you are coming from but this is also a show by Russia that the USA can't and it that it won't let it go around the world forcing its will on a country anymore, because if Syria fell to USA terror puppets and Russia did nothing Iran would be next and then ask yourself where next would be on the hit list, Russia has decided to take a stand especially after what happened in Libya. When Libya fell Russia lost an ally as well as trade.
Militarov wrote:
Somewhere in Latakia
PapaDragon wrote:
I see that a lot of folks here a determined to render ignore function redundant by constantly quoting verified trolls...
ultron wrote:Russia warns Assad not to take back the whole country.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-russia-syria-envoy-idUSKCN0VR240
ultron wrote:Saudi Arabia sends surface to air missiles to jihadists. Good thing Russia has President S
https://twitter.com/Paradoxy13/status/700684572007264256
Viktor wrote:ultron wrote:Russia warns Assad not to take back the whole country.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-russia-syria-envoy-idUSKCN0VR240
No. Russia wants Assad to follow Russian lead in regaining his country.
AlfaT8 wrote:Viktor wrote:ultron wrote:Russia warns Assad not to take back the whole country.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-russia-syria-envoy-idUSKCN0VR240
No. Russia wants Assad to follow Russian lead in regaining his country.
Honestly this all just feels like bad wording by Mr.Churkin, now being used to create confusion in Syria-Russia relations.
In an effort to prevent further escalation, NATO has made it exceedingly clear to the Turkish government that it cannot count on alliance support should the conflict with Russia head up as a result of a Turkish attack. "NATO cannot allow itself to be pulled into a military escalation with Russia as a result of the recent tensions between Russia and Turkey," says Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn.
Should Turkey be responsible for escalation, say officials in both Berlin and Brussels, Ankara would not be able to invoke the NATO treaty. Article 4 of the alliance's founding treaty grants member states the right to demand consultations "whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the Parties is threatened." Turkey has already invoked this article once in the Syrian conflict. The result was the stationing of German Patriot missiles on the Syrian border in eastern Turkey.
NATO Gets Nervous
The decisive article, however, is Article 5, which guarantees that an "armed attack against one or more of (the alliance members) in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all." But Luxembourg's Foreign Minister Asselborn notes that "the guarantee is only valid when a member state is clearly attacked."
Ankara was already rebuked following the shooting down of the Russian warplane, with NATO diplomats speaking of a Turkish overreaction. "We have to avoid that situations, incidents, accidents spiral out of control," warned NATO General Secretary Jens Stoltenberg.
Berlin agrees. "We are not going to pay the price for a war started by the Turks," says a German diplomat. Because decisions taken by the North Atlantic Council, NATO's primary decision-making body, must always be unanimous, it is enough for a single country to exercise its veto rights, the official says. But, the official adds, it won't get that far: there is widespread agreement with the US and most other allies that Turkey would get the cold shoulder in such a case.
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