India-Pakistan Kashmir conflict

Tingsay wrote:

jhelb wrote:Hindus unlike Slavs (especially Russians) are NOT know to be great fighters. This explains why they were under Islamic occupation for over a thousand years, followed by British  - a country that never won against Russia

The win loss record is heavily stacked in favour of Muslims. Pakistan backed by its Arab allies & China will prevail. No way India is going to win this war.

Pretty sure India won all Indo-Pakistan Wars except for the debatable first (1947).  
So dont know what your talking about.

Pretty much. And only reason why Pakistan became Pakistan is thanks to a Hindu traitor (Ghandi). The Inbreeders in Pakistan cannot fight a war worth shit. Example is see Yemen.

Tingsay wrote:Pretty sure India won all Indo-Pakistan Wars except for the debatable first (1947).  
So dont know what your talking about.

Just explained how Hindus were under Islamic rule for over 1000 years followed by British rule.

In 2017 they fought with China in Bhutan for a few months & lost territory belonging to Bhutan that India was supposed to protect.

Unlike Slavs or for that matter Catholics, Protestants, Jews , Muslims these Hindus are NOT at all united. Divided into several castes, communities that are constantly fighting against one another. Ergo, they cannot put up a united front against foreign invaders.

Not sure where you come from, in order to be a great fighter look at Russia/Belarus. Have these countries ever been under Islamic rule for 1000 years? NO. Because Muslim invaders were routinely defeated by us.

jhelb wrote:

Tingsay wrote:Pretty sure India won all Indo-Pakistan Wars except for the debatable first (1947).  
So dont know what your talking about.

Just explained how Hindus were under Islamic rule for over 1000 years followed by British rule.

In 2017 they fought with China in Bhutan for a few months & lost territory belonging to Bhutan that India was supposed to protect.

Unlike Slavs or for that matter Catholics, Protestants, Jews , Muslims these Hindus are NOT at all united. Divided into several castes, communities that are constantly fighting against one another. Ergo, they cannot put up a united front against foreign invaders.

Not sure where you come from, in order to be a great fighter look at Russia/Belarus. Have these countries ever been under Islamic rule for 1000 years? NO. Because Muslim invaders were routinely defeated by us.

You have a poor grasp of knowledge on this. So take it from someone who has been to India on more than one occasion and has family in India (myself):

India isn't exactly a Hindu nation either. Majority may be Hindu but not everyone. Including, not everyone in the Army, airforce, etc are Hindu either.

In terms of air and naval warfare, indian won everytime against pakistan.

Today war is more about pushing buttons at the good moment than being a warrior.

PapaDragon wrote:
Honestly I am kinda leaning towards supporting Pakistan here.

Reason? That annoying Indian tourism add on TV.

Every time I hear that chick yelling ''INCREDIBLE INDIAAAAAA!!!!'' I get the urge to run my foot through the TV...

Waste of a good foot. If you don't need it give it to me, I've got one that don't work to well any more.

PapaDragon wrote:
Well, looks like Wikipedia has fallen victim to conflict as well

Trees??????????? My God, trees have feelings! The trauma, the terror, the fear those poor trees had to have felt as they saw their death coming right at them! Racsim! Sexism! Chocolatism! Horror of all horrors, a UN Security Council Meeting is demanded!!!!!!!!!

auslander wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Well, looks like Wikipedia has fallen victim to conflict as well

https://i.servimg.com/u/f18/19/21/24/38/pak10.jpg

Trees??????????? My God, trees have feelings! The trauma, the terror, the fear those poor trees had to have felt as they saw their death coming right at them! Racsim! Sexism! Chocolatism! Horror of all horrors, a UN Security Council Meeting is demanded!!!!!!!!!

I was about to print flyers to raise awareness of suffering of trees in this conflict when I realized that paper is made of trees

Soylent Green is people!  Paper is trees!  

You assholes care more about stupid trees than insects. No mention of the cockroaches, ants and beetles that died?

Nice double standards...

Isos wrote:Unfortunatly israeli jammer didn't work on the AMRAAM. Just like Israeli missiles fired from mirages didn't work. They will think twice next time they want to buy something from israel.

Not sure how India managed to fit Israeli jammers on a Soviet era Mig 21. That apart what happened to countermeasures like chaffs & flares ?

Also, the Mig 21 brought down the F-16 using a R 73. What happened to the jammers, countermeasures on board the F 16 ?

India shows the remains of AIM-120C-5 missile. It looks like PAF F-16C/D launch AMRAAM against MiG, but miss it and missile than fall inside Indian teritory. MiG-21 was than shot down by JF-17 with PL-12 missile. Maybe countermeasures work against AMRAAM, but not against PL-12, which use the same Agat ARH as R-77.

medo wrote:

India shows the remains of AIM-120C-5 missile. It looks like PAF F-16C/D launch AMRAAM against MiG, but miss it and missile than fall inside Indian teritory. MiG-21 was than shot down by JF-17 with PL-12 missile. Maybe countermeasures work against AMRAAM, but not against PL-12, which use the same Agat ARH as R-77.

Poeple say it was downed by ground fire. Chinese copy sucks more than amraam for sur. First r-77 are bad, russians rufused them. If the jammer can jam amraam then it can jam pl-12.

Ankit Panda
@nktpnd
·
24m
This is brutal: “Pakistan Air Force Wing Commander Shahaz-ud-Din, the F-16 pilot shot down in a dogfight over the Nowshera sector, is reported to have been lynched by a mob who mistook him for an Indian airman”

Pakistan Defence Command
@PDCMDOfficial
·
45m
#LOC: #IndianArmy is using Heavy Artillery and Anti Tank Guided Missiles (ATGMs) against #PakistanArmy positions.

I've enjoyed the effort put by both sides to control the narratives... truly a spectacle for the heart and minds.

Pakistan returns to India the downed MiG-21 fighter pilot

First r-77 are bad, russians rufused them.

The first R-77s were hardly refused... they didn't buy many because they didn't have any aircraft that could actually use them...

The first users of R-77 were China and India, the only Russian aircraft able to use R-77s in the 1990s and early 2000s were the Su-39 variant of the Su-25... they might have had about 4 prototypes in total, and the MiG-29SM which was not widely deployed either.

Later newer aircraft and upgraded older aircraft could use the R-77 actually got into service and by then production of the ARH seeker of the R-77 was developed in Russia instead of the Ukraine...

Isos wrote:Poeple say it was downed by ground fire. Chinese copy sucks more than amraam for sur. First r-77 are bad, russians rufused them. If the jammer can jam amraam then it can jam pl-12.

First no PL-12 were fired. Pakistanis had denied outright that F-16s were used. Now they are accepting it because AIM 120 can only be fired from F 16 not JF-17.

So Pakistan ingressed with F-16, Mirage 3 and JF-17. A total of 20 fighter aircraft. Pakistani F-16s fired at an Indian Mi-17 helo over Indian territory, killing all 6 soldiers on board. Indians scrambled 2 Mig -21s, 2 Mirage 2000IN and 2 Su-30MKI.


In the ensuing dogfight 2 Indian Mig 21s chased 3 F 16s and shot down one of those.

F-16s fired 2 AIM 120 at the 2 Mig 21s hitting one of them and missing the other.

What I find funny is that Indians had several SAMs - Pechora, Akash 2, Israeli QR-SAM. Why didn't they take a shot? Maybe because Indian SAMs lack IFF capability.

miketheterrible wrote:

You have a poor grasp of knowledge on this.  So take it from someone who has been to India on more than one occasion and has family in India (myself):

India isn't exactly a Hindu nation either.  Majority may be Hindu but not everyone.  Including, not everyone in the Army, airforce, etc are Hindu either.

80% are Hindus. The leadership is predominantly Hindu. In fact Christians & Muslims living in India were also Hindus who were converted by UK,US missionaries & Islamic rulers, respectively.

India was under Muslim rule for over a thousand years & under British rule for more than 200 yrs.

Why do you think that these same Muslims, Brits couldn't takeover Russia? Because Russians have a killer instinct. Those who mess with us, pay a heavy price.

Hindus cannot make such claims. They have no such achievements.

So Pakistan ingressed with F-16, Mirage 3 and JF-17. A total of 20 fighter aircraft. Pakistani F-16s fired at an Indian Mi-17 helo over Indian territory, killing all 6 soldiers on board. Indians scrambled 2 Mig -21s, 2 Mirage 2000IN and 2 Su-30MKI.

The helicopter crashed more than 100km from the border. It was a technical failure. F-16 can't detect an helicopter that far. In general helicopters are very hard to detect.

What I find funny is that Indians had several SAMs - Pechora, Akash 2, Israeli QR-SAM. Why didn't they take a shot? Maybe because Indian SAMs lack IFF capability.

Or maybe because they were not deployed in the area. If you follow what's going on there you would notice that they are using big artillery which would destroy any SAM deployed around there. They keep SAM for the protection of strategic targets like cities or factories. Not on the border where they can be destroyed from pakistani airspace

First no PL-12 were fired. Pakistanis had denied outright that F-16s were used. Now they are accepting it because AIM 120 can only be fired from F 16 not JF-17.

We still don't know who and which missile hit the mig. Pakistani are lying since the begining.

jhelb wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:

You have a poor grasp of knowledge on this.  So take it from someone who has been to India on more than one occasion and has family in India (myself):

India isn't exactly a Hindu nation either.  Majority may be Hindu but not everyone.  Including, not everyone in the Army, airforce, etc are Hindu either.

80% are Hindus. The leadership is predominantly Hindu. In fact Christians & Muslims living in India were also Hindus who were converted by UK,US missionaries & Islamic rulers, respectively.

India was under Muslim rule for over a thousand years & under British rule for more than 200 yrs.

Why do you think that these same Muslims, Brits couldn't takeover Russia? Because Russians have a killer instinct. Those who mess with us, pay a heavy price.

Hindus cannot make such claims. They have no such achievements.

First, 60% of Hindus. I'll get to the rest after bed.

Isos wrote:The helicopter crashed more than 100km from the border. It was a technical failure. F-16 can't detect an helicopter that far. In general helicopters are very hard to detect.

That's too much of a coincidence, isn't it. Especially Pakistanis themselves claimed that they downed two Indian planes. Some commentators are now suggesting that it's part of the de escalation process, so both Pakistan & India are claiming that it was a technical fault.

Isos wrote:Or maybe because they were not deployed in the area. If you follow what's going on there you would notice that they are using big artillery which would destroy any SAM deployed around there. They keep SAM for the protection of strategic targets like cities or factories. Not on the border where they can be destroyed from pakistani airspace

In interviews to RT, BBC, CNN Indian military is saying that their air defense is active. India & Pakistan are fighting in this area for over 3 decades so hard to believe that India has no SAM out there.

Isos wrote:We still don't know who and which missile hit the mig. Pakistani are lying since the begining.

Moreover, what happened to the much vaunted MAWS of the F 16? At least Hindus will claim that none of their fighter jets have MAWS (including Su 30MKI).

Even without MAWS, most Russian pilots would have managed to escape missiles, because your onboard radar is highlighting the incoming missile.

Indian pilots are not all that highly trained, unlike Russian pilots.

That's too much of a coincidence, isn't it. Especially Pakistanis themselves claimed that they downed two Indian planes. Some commentators are now suggesting that it's part of the de escalation process, so both Pakistan & India are claiming that it was a technical fault.

No it's not. It was war time. More probably they didn't check everything onboard and forget to do something.

They never claimed the helicopter but two fighters that went into pakistan. The helicopter was far away from the border.

In interviews to RT, BBC, CNN Indian military is saying that their air defense is active. India & Pakistan are fighting in this area for over 3 decades so hard to believe that India has no SAM out there.

Active where ? Look at the size of India. Most of their AD are short to medium range so if they want to cover the border wih them, they will be exposed.

India is doing CAP there 24/7 since the attack. If they had AD there would be less fighters in the air.

Moreover, what happened to the much vaunted MAWS of the F 16? At least Hindus will claim that none of their fighter jets have MAWS (including Su 30MKI).

Even without MAWS, most Russian pilots would have managed to escape missiles, because your onboard radar is highlighting the incoming missile.

Indian pilots are not all that highly trained, unlike Russian pilots.

Yeah ask the russian su-24 that was downed by turkish f-16 how he magically saw the missile because he is a russian guy

That's speculation. And defensive tools don't make the aircraft 100% safe. Flares and jaming without hard evasive manoeuvres are useless. India had su-30mki out there and they gave indication to the mig 21 that other pakistani fighter were there. So they saw them but didn't ebgage them nor did they protect the mig-21.

Mig-21 pilot is also stupid. He went alone to follow a f16 in pakistani airspace where he knew more fighters were waiting.

Indian pilots overestimate themselves actually.

jhelb wrote:

Isos wrote:Poeple say it was downed by ground fire. Chinese copy sucks more than amraam for sur. First r-77 are bad, russians rufused them. If the jammer can jam amraam then it can jam pl-12.

First no PL-12 were fired. Pakistanis had denied outright that F-16s were used. Now they are accepting it because AIM 120 can only be fired from F 16 not JF-17.

So Pakistan ingressed with F-16, Mirage 3 and JF-17. A total of 20 fighter aircraft. Pakistani F-16s fired at an Indian Mi-17 helo over Indian territory, killing all 6 soldiers on board. Indians scrambled 2 Mig -21s, 2 Mirage 2000IN and 2 Su-30MKI.


In the ensuing dogfight 2  Indian Mig 21s chased 3 F 16s and shot down one of those.

F-16s fired 2 AIM 120 at the 2 Mig 21s hitting one of them and missing the other.

What I find funny is that Indians had several SAMs - Pechora, Akash 2, Israeli QR-SAM. Why didn't they take a shot? Maybe because Indian SAMs lack IFF capability.

IAF MiG-21Bison was shot down by Hasan Siddiqui flying JF-17 Block 2.

When you found out that US don't only sell shit fighters to its dogs but also FORBID them using them as fighters

Jeff M. Smith
@Cold_Peace_
State Dept. looking into potential violation of end-user agreement with Pakistan's use of F-16s in Kashmir strikes.

"Due to non-disclosure agreements in [FMS] contracts, we cannot discuss the specifics of end user-agreements contained within,"-DoD spox

Isos wrote:
Ankit Panda
@nktpnd
·
24m
This is brutal: “Pakistan Air Force Wing Commander Shahaz-ud-Din, the F-16 pilot shot down in a dogfight over the Nowshera sector, is reported to have been lynched by a mob who mistook him for an Indian airman”

ROFL  

thats epic.. a pak pilot in AMerican uniform telling hem..  hey wait!!! im u guys...
U look a spy 2 me...  Boom bing bang .. perhaps Indian government should give them a medal
for courage and valor ..