New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

Militarov wrote:

Pinto wrote:

Militarov wrote:

medo wrote:

Pinto wrote:

medo wrote:The quickest way for Russia to make a single engine light fighter is to modify Yak-130 trainer. They could take its two AI-222 engines out and replace them with new RD-33MK or RD-93 engine and make it single seater to get enough space to install proper radar in its nose. Yak-130 is already very agile jet with g limitation at -3/+9 g, what is better than Tejas. Yak-130 number of hardpoints and combat load is already big enough.

If aesa radar can be installed in such fighter and has reliable engine then it must be fielded by Russia

RuAF decided more than 20 years ago to have only twin engined fighters and retire all single engine jets. They will not field such fighter, but could made it for export.

They decided that due to post USSR collapse situation, not because they have no use for single engine fighters. After all Mikoyan LMFS was supposed to be single engined.

Russia, US and Sweden have been asked to submit there bids so Russia must participate in this bid to be made in India. since US wont share critical technology it leaves Sweden and Russia

Well, US did not want to share F-35 technology, however they seemed quite keen on transfering Super Hornet technology a year back. Id put F-16 in same bag, as that is the technology they are slowly discarting.

No bro i dont think India will trust US so much to have fighter aircraft from them, Gripen seems to be best bet here as of now

Pinto wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Pinto wrote:

Militarov wrote:

medo wrote:

Pinto wrote:

medo wrote:The quickest way for Russia to make a single engine light fighter is to modify Yak-130 trainer. They could take its two AI-222 engines out and replace them with new RD-33MK or RD-93 engine and make it single seater to get enough space to install proper radar in its nose. Yak-130 is already very agile jet with g limitation at -3/+9 g, what is better than Tejas. Yak-130 number of hardpoints and combat load is already big enough.

If aesa radar can be installed in such fighter and has reliable engine then it must be fielded by Russia

RuAF decided more than 20 years ago to have only twin engined fighters and retire all single engine jets. They will not field such fighter, but could made it for export.

They decided that due to post USSR collapse situation, not because they have no use for single engine fighters. After all Mikoyan LMFS was supposed to be single engined.

Russia, US and Sweden have been asked to submit there bids so Russia must participate in this bid to be made in India. since US wont share critical technology it leaves Sweden and Russia

Well, US did not want to share F-35 technology, however they seemed quite keen on transfering Super Hornet technology a year back. Id put F-16 in same bag, as that is the technology they are slowly discarting.

No bro i dont think India will trust US so much to have fighter aircraft from them, Gripen seems to be best bet here as of now

Well to be honest many components on Gripen are also of US origin or use US built parts. Engine, Fly by Wire, fuel tank sealants, datalink bus....

You are also forgetting how many Tejas components are imported from various foreign suppliers like US, UK, Germany, Israel...

The only purpose for it being a single engine fighter is to make it cheap and so really they are trying to buy an already made foreign Tegas they can build in India.

Personally I think they are stupid to limit themselves to single engined aircraft... it is not cheaper when one engine fails.

It is not cheaper when it is made of totally different components/engines/systems that are not in Indian service already.

Of course it is not up to me but if it was I would split the budget for this new programme in half and spend half of it on developing Indian components to replace the foreign components in Tegas... especially the engine, and the other half on an existing type considered suitable... that would be the Mirage 2000 or the MiG-29UPG/M2.

I would just say to France we will buy a factory to make M2ks or we wont consider French products for the next decade... including Subs and ships and aircraft and armoured vehicles.

France can say yes or no.

As India plans to set up a domestic fighter production line by opening talks with top aviation giants, a letter sent by the Air Force has created confusion about the plan as well as concern that it may be a death blow to the indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA) programme.


While India has received several unsolicited bids for a Make in India fighter jet from Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Saab and even Dassault, an official letter had been dispatched for the first time to several nations earlier this month inviting interest.


However, the contents of the letter are confusing to say the least. The Air Force has asked for replacements to its ‘ageing fleet of single engine fighter aircraft’. The letter says the requirement is for a ‘minimum fourth generation single engine aircraft’ to be indigenously manufactured under the Make in India initiative.


India however has an ongoing production plan for exactly the same kind of fighter – the improved version of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft.


Orders for over 120 planes have been assured and the very aim of the Tejas programme is to replace the legacy single engine fighters in service – namely the MiG 21 fleet that is at the end of service life.


Efforts are also on to develop a new version of the LCA if the Air Force wants, with a more advanced engine. Secondly, the letter, which is not a formal invitation for bids but more of a consent that foreign nations are ready to take part in a contest, says the Air Force is looking for a medium weight category fighter and is also interested in air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons


This, when barely a month ago India concluded a protracted procurement process for a new medium multirole fighter – the French Rafale, 36 of which have been bought for 7.8 billion euro.


The Rafale was originally chosen after it won a techno-commercial contest for a new medium multirole fighter following detailed evaluation by the air force. Thirdly, the letter seems to indicate that India has forgone any intent of acquiring key weapons or simulator technology as part of the Make in India initiative.

The letter says that the transfer of technology for ‘weapons and simulators is not envisaged’. It also says that the first ‘few aircraft’ will be bought in flyaway condition and remaining to be manufactured here, again forgoing competitive bidding by players for a better deal.

While the letter may not be the final word from India, it brings down a selection to only two contenders with what is already being described as a ‘match fixing’ condition of a single engine fighter.


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/air-force-letter-creates-confusion-about-plans-to-set-up-indias-domestic-fighter-production-line/articleshow/54945552.cms

India needs new fighter jets, and the world's leading manufacturers are lining up to provide them.

The South Asian nation's government has sent letters to several companies regarding a new fleet of military aircraft, to be jointly produced with local firms. A potential deal, according to experts, could be worth up to $12 billion.

"India is looking at paying $65 to $80 million per aircraft for 150 aircraft," says Ben Moores, a defense and aviation analyst at IHS Jane's. The country faces an elevated sticker price for the fighters because government rules require most of the manufacturing to take place in India.

The requirement, which is part of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's "Make in India" initiative, is believed to have been a roadblock in India's most recent military aircraft deal with France.
That deal, which originally called for French company Dassault to supply the Indian air force with 126 Rafale fighters, underwent lengthy negotiations due to disputes over the local production clause.

Under the final terms of the sale agreed by India and France last month, India will only get 36 jets.

Other companies appear more than ready to fill the gap. U.S. manufacturer Lockheed Martin and Sweden's Saab are the leading contenders.

"We are prepared to provide a solution under the 'Make in India' program," said Saab spokesman Sebastian Carlsson, who confirmed that the company has received the Indian government's letter.

Carlsson touted his company's deal to supply Brazil with its Gripen fighters as a blueprint for a potential agreement with India. Saab is transferring technology to local firms as part of the deal, and is even training Brazilian engineers.

It's "an example of the way we like to do business," Carlsson said. He added that Saab was preparing an official response to India's letter.

Related: Vietnam's defense spending is $5 billion and rising fast
Lockheed Martin (LMT) has gone a step further, offering to make India the sole global manufacturing hub for its F-16 fighter if offered the deal.

"Exclusive F-16 production in India would make India home to the world's only F-16 production facility," said Abhay Paranjape, Lockheed's national executive for business development in India. "None of our competitors can offer that."

Paranjape said the company, which has received and responded to the government's letter, envisions "a joint venture model with Indian industry as prime owner."

While India appears to have begun the procurement process in earnest, past instances suggest a final deal — especially of the magnitude being discussed — will be anything but straightforward.
"There might be a strategic eagerness for modern aircraft but the reality is that bureaucratic hurdles and state owned industrial self-interest outweigh the requirement urgency," says Moores. "If India can sign a deal and make it stick that will be impressive in its own right."


http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/25/investing/india-fighter-jets-lockheed-saab/index.html

The Indian government is offering to buy hundreds of fighter planes from foreign manufacturers - as long as the jets are made in India and with a local partner, air force officials say.


A deal for 200 single-engine planes produced in India - which the air force says could rise to 300 as it fully phases out ageing Soviet-era aircraft -- could be worth anything from $13-$15 billion, experts say, potentially one of the country’s biggest military aircraft deals.


After a deal to buy high-end Rafale planes from France’s Dassault was scaled back to just 36 jets last month, the Indian Air Force is desperately trying to speed up other acquisitions and arrest a fall in operational strength, now a third less than required to face both China and Pakistan.


But Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s administration wants any further military planes to be built in India with an Indian partner to kickstart a domestic aircraft industry, and end an expensive addiction to imports.


Lockheed Martin said it is interested in setting up a production line for its F-16 plane in India for not just the Indian military, but also for export.


And Sweden’s Saab has offered a rival production line for its Gripen aircraft, setting up an early contest for one of the biggest military plane deals in play.


“The immediate shortfall is 200. That would be the minimum we would be looking at,” said an air officer briefed on the Make-in-India plans under which a foreign manufacturer will partner local firms to build the aircraft with technology transfer.


The defence ministry has written to several companies asking if they would be willing to set up an assembly line for single-engine fighter planes in India and the amount of technology transfer that would happen, another government source said.


“We are testing the waters, testing the foreign firms’ willingness to move production here and to find out their expectations,” the person said.


OPERATIONAL GAPS


India’s air force originally planned for 126 Rafale twin-engine fighters from Dassault, but the two sides could not agree on the terms of local production with a state-run Indian firm and settled for 36 planes in a fly-away condition.


Adding to the military’s problems is India’s three-decade effort to build a single-engine fighter of its own which was meant to be the backbone of the air force. Only two of those Light Combat Aircraft, called Tejas, have been delivered to the air force which has ordered 140 of them.


The Indian Air Force is down to 32 operational squadrons compared with the 45 it has said are necessary, and in March the vice chief Air Marshal BS Dhanoa told parliament’s defence committee that it didn’t have the operational strength to fight a two front war against China and Pakistan.


JET MAKERS RESPOND


Saab said it was ready to not only produce its frontline Gripen fighter in India, but help build a local aviation industry base.
“We are very experienced in transfer of technology – our way of working involves extensive cooperation with our partners to establish a complete ecosystem, not just an assembly line,” said Jan Widerström, chairman and managing director, Saab India Technologies.
He confirmed Saab had received the letter from the Indian government seeking a fourth generation fighter. A source close to the company said that while there was no minimum order set in stone for it to lay down a production line, they would expect to build at least 100 planes at the facility.


Lockheed Martin said it had responded to the defence ministry’s letter with an offer to transfer the entire production of its F-16 fighter to India.


“Exclusive F-16 production in India would make India home to the world’s only F-16 production facility, a leading exporter of advanced fighter aircraft, and offer Indian industry the opportunity to become an integral part of the world’s largest fighter aircraft supply chain,” Abhay Paranjape, National Executive for Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Business Development in India said in an email.


US TOP SUPPLIER


Lockheed’s offer comes on the back of expanding US-India military ties in which Washington has emerged as India’s top arms supplier in recent years, ousting old ally Russia.


Earlier this year Boeing also offered India its twin-engine F/A-18 Hornets, but the level of technology transfer was not clear.
India has never previously attempted to build a modern aircraft production line, whether military or civilian. State-run Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) has assembled Russian combat jets including the Su-30, but these are under licensed production.


“We have never had control over technology. This represents the most serious attempt to build a domestic base. A full or a near-full tech transfer lays the ground for further development,” said retired Indian air marshal M. Matheswaran, a former adviser at HAL.


He said the Indian government would be looking at producing at least 200 fighters, and then probably some more, to make up for the decades of delay in modernising the air force.


http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/made-in-india-govt-offers-to-buy-200-foreign-combat-jets-but-conditions-apply/story-yRinwqtd9VuGAaZqr94QCN.html
(Additional reporting by Tommy Wilkes )

India’s problem with its aging Air Force fleet is that it requires new fighter jets soon. The MiG-35 is best suited to meet India’s requirements and will be invited to participate in the tendering process in the near future.

​
Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG will offer the Indian Defence Ministry its latest MiG-35, so that it can participate in a tender to supply medium fighter jets. New Delhi is planning to announce the tender and seek expressions of interest in the near future. Earlier, in 2015, India rejected the ‘MiG 35’, opting for the French Rafale. The Indian Air Force is now organizing the tender, and planning to replace its 200 MiG-21 and MiG-27 airplanes.

In addition to the RAC MiG, those invited to participate in the tendering process are the Swedish company SAAB – with the Gripen NG aircraft, and the American Lockheed Martin – with the “Indian” version of the F-16. A major requirement for tender participants – is maximum localization of production of the fighter aircraft in India.

“The United Aircraft Corporation and RAC MiG will participate in the upcoming IAF tender,” Izvestia learned from the UAC. “We just need to wait for the official technical specifications from the Indian government and the invitation. After that, we will prepare and send a package of documents with our proposals to New Delhi,” the UAC representative said.


New Delhi is currently formulating the technical specifications which, in the form of an RFP (Request for Proposals), will be sent to selected companies participating in the tender. This will be the formal launch of the new tender. According to information from sources in the military and diplomatic circles, Indian representatives, as early as this summer, turned to Russia with a request to describe the possible packaging arrangement of the MiG-35, which the United Aircraft Corporation will be ready to offer in the tender.

According to the source, Russia has sent India an expanded list of equipment and weapons, which included electronic warfare stations, suspended opto-electronic sighting containers, a wide range of aircraft weapons, including air-air and air-land missiles, as well as high-precision bombs.

All members of the future tender had met between 2000 and 2015, during a similar competition for the right to supply 126 fighter jets worth $10 billion. In the course of this long tender, the MiG-35 beat the F-16IN and the Gripen NG, but lost out to the French Rafale. However, due to the high prices, India could not buy one hundred, but only 36 fighters. India did not receive the Rafale production technologies and localization of production in Indian enterprises, as promised.

Andrey Frolov, an expert, told Izvestia that the announcement of a new tender could be interpreted as the public recognition by India that the modernization problem of a rapidly aging Air Force fleet has not been solved.

“Now we are seeing a split in the year 2000 tender,” said Frolov. “The Rafale has been purchased, but the first aircraft will be delivered no earlier than 2019. India's own fighter jet, the Tejas, is apparently not ready yet. And now, in a situation of mass write-offs of the MiG-21 and MiG-27 airplanes, something needs to be done urgently with the domestic fleet.”

Frolov said the outcome of the new tender was difficult to predict. There are some difficulties with all the aircraft invited to participate in the tender. Sweden is prepared to share production technologies of the Gripen fighter, but there are not many Swedish parts in this aircraft. The main components are purchased from the United States and Europe with which they would have to negotiate for permission to localize production in a third country.

Another problem with the Gripen is that, for the production of a new fighter jet, the SAAB Company will be forced to remove parts from aircraft already with the Swedish Air Force. A scandal has recently erupted on this issue in Sweden – the essence of which was the question: does it make sense to “cannibalize” the existing fighter fleet for the production of new aircraft, or is it better to invest in the development and production of a more advanced fighter aircraft? The new aircraft from Saab is scheduled to appear in 2019 which, as in the case of the Rafale, does not solve the current problems of the Indian Air Force.

“With the American F-16 things are easier,” said Frolov. “Its production line in the USA is scheduled for closing in 2017, and Washington could, theoretically, transfer it to India.

In practice, however, Americans have never yet transferred technologies to manufacture their own weapons and military equipment to any other country. Especially since the onboard equipment of this latest version of the aircraft, the F-16 Blok 52/57, includes a radar with active electronically scanned array (AESA), which is considered as the key know-how in the design of modern fighters.

Ivan Konovalov, Head of the Centre for Strategic Trend Studies, believes the MiG-35 is the only aircraft with which the Indian military should not have any issues.

“The aircraft participated in the last tender and showed excellent results,” said Konovalov. “The MiG lost out to the French Rafale for political, rather than technical reasons. The formal reason for the choice in favour of the French aircraft was the fact that, under Indian legislation, the Indian military cannot buy weapons and military equipment from only one supplier. And at that time, Russia had already signed several major contracts to supply India with Su-30MKI fighters and naval MiG-29K/KUB planes.”

First published in Russian by Izvestia.

http://in.rbth.com/economics/defence/2016/10/17/migs-try-to-conquer-india_639481

If Gripen and F 16 can be allowed to re-enter into newly tweaked MRCA project then why not Russian MIG 35, which are our oldest supplier of advanced technology in defense or single engine condition has been made just to favor Americans F 35

GarryB wrote:The only purpose for it being a single engine fighter is to make it cheap and so really they are trying to buy an already made foreign Tegas they can build in India.

Personally I think they are stupid to limit themselves to single engined aircraft... it is not cheaper when one engine fails.

+1. This is whole "open tender" is a big wink wink to LockMart and either F-16IN or some version of the F-35. Or a mix of both.
India is very short-sighted. MiG-35 is what they need and could get it in huge numbers, built under license in their own country.

Russia too is invited in this tender and i am sure they will certainly make it tough for others if they pitch in yak 30 twin version fighter. Because what IAF need is light weight fighter to replace MIG 21 for point defence

YAK30 with payload off around 6-9 tonne will be effective contender to spoil others party imao

In a bid to upgrade military hardware and arrest a fall in operational strength, the Narendra Modi government is offering to buy hundreds of fighter aircrafts from foreign manufacturers. But as long as the jets are made in India and with a local partner, according to air force officials. The air force says a deal for 200 single-engine planes produced in India – could eventually rise to 300 – as India fully phases out ageing Soviet-era aircrafts. The deal could be well worth anything between USD 13-15 billion, say experts, potentially making it one of India’s biggest military aircraft deals.


Here is what you need to know:

1. After a deal to buy high-end Rafale planes from France’s Dassault was scaled back to just 36 jets last month, the Indian Air Force is desperately trying to speed up other acquisitions and arrest a fall in operational strength, now a third less than required to face both China and Pakistan.

ALSO READ: PM Narendra Modi seeks ‘shoot to kill’ hardware as part of military modernisation

2. Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s administration wants any further military planes to be built in India with an Indian partner to kickstart a domestic aircraft industry, and end an expensive addiction to imports. Lockheed Martin said it is interested in setting up a production line for its F-16 plane in India for not just the Indian military, but also for export.

3. India’s defence ministry has written to several companies asking if they would be willing to set up an assembly line for single-engine fighter planes in India and the amount of technology transfer that would happen, another government source said.

4. India’s military’s problems were compounded when it’s three-decade effort to build a single-engine fighter of its own which was meant to be the backbone of the air force. Only two of those Light Combat Aircraft, called Tejas, have been delivered to the air force which has ordered 140 of them.

5. The deal assumes more strategic importance as in March this year the vice chief Air Marshal B.S. Dhanoa told parliament’s defence committee that it didn’t have the operational strength to fight a two front war against China and Pakistan.

6. Lockheed Martin said it had responded to the defence ministry’s letter with an offer to transfer the entire production of its F-16 fighter to India. “Exclusive F-16 production in India would make India home to the world’s only F-16 production facility, a leading exporter of advanced fighter aircraft, and offer Indian industry the opportunity to become an integral part of the world’s largest fighter aircraft supply chain,” Abhay Paranjape, National Executive for Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Business Development in India said in an email.

7. India’s defence ministry has written to several companies asking if they would be willing to set up an assembly line for single-engine fighter planes in India and the amount of technology transfer that would happen, another government source said.

(With inputs from Reuters)


http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/narendra-modi-govt-foreign-combat-jets-rafale-lockheed-martin-3728832/

GarryB wrote:The only purpose for it being a single engine fighter is to make it cheap and so really they are trying to buy an already made foreign Tegas they can build in India.

Personally I think they are stupid to limit themselves to single engined aircraft... it is not cheaper when one engine fails.

It is not cheaper when it is made of totally different components/engines/systems that are not in Indian service already.

Of course it is not up to me but if it was I would split the budget for this new programme in half and spend half of it on developing Indian components to replace the foreign components in Tegas... especially the engine, and the other half on an existing type considered suitable... that would be the Mirage 2000 or the MiG-29UPG/M2.

I would just say to France we will buy a factory to make M2ks or we wont consider French products for the next decade... including Subs and ships and aircraft and armoured vehicles.

France can say yes or no.

Mirage would however require significant modifications/modernisations tho to be on pair with F-16IN, probably components derived from Rafale and Tejas. Modern engines are mature enough, failure rates are very low so single engined fighters are safe as it get, its far more likely that they crash due to other malfunctions in fly by wire, or navigation system, bad weather...

Two of world's major military aviation companies have sweetened the terms for making combat jets in India. The Government expects response from Russian companies too.

New Delhi (Sputnik): India has received proposals from two foreign companies within two months of asking countries like the US, Sweden and Russia to locally build a fighter under a generous technology transfer (ToT) arrangement.

The winner will bag the right to sell the fighters to India for several decades as the Indian Air Force seeks to build 42 active squadrons.

"SAAB of Sweden and Lockheed Martin from the USA have shown interest in manufacturing single engine fighter jets in the country. The initial proposals of both the companies entail ToT for manufacturing of fighter jets in India," Subhash Bhamre, India’s Minister of State for Defense informed Parliament on December 2. Lockheed to Expand Weapons Production in India

However, these global aircraft manufacturers have till now not detailed documents to back up their expression of interest proposals. Sources say that Saab is offering ‘ITAR-free’ Galium Nitride AESA radar technology but it is not clear whether Lockheed Martin was making a similar offer. Indian government plans to replace all the MiG-21 squadrons with the new single-engine fighter in the next few years.


India is expected to issue a formal request of proposal (RFP) after receiving the initial response from the global manufacturers. In the absence of a RFP, global manufacturers are unaware of demanded numbers, technical requirements and cost of the exercise.

India is staring at a startling shortage of combat jets to fight two front wars with Pakistan and China. Recently, India has decided to procure 36 Rafale aircraft from France but the first delivery will be made two years and the numbers will equip only two squadrons.

The current strength of the Indian Air Force is 34 squadrons (18-20 aircraft per squadron) which is far below the required strength of 42 squadrons suggested by Indian Parliamentary committees panels for two front wars.

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/military/201612021048106485-us-sweden-jet-tender-india/

Mirage would however require significant modifications/modernisations tho to be on pair with F-16IN, probably components derived from Rafale and Tejas. Modern engines are mature enough, failure rates are very low so single engined fighters are safe as it get, its far more likely that they crash due to other malfunctions in fly by wire, or navigation system, bad weather...

The mirage has the advantage that it is already in service and is familiar and is not in use by Pakistan like the F-16 is.

The MiG is also already in service and they could build up numbers simply by buying 200 MiG-29M2s and then gradually introducing the expensive stuff on the 35s as they deem necessary/affordable.

The Yak-130 or any derivative is not suitable as a replacement here... the only advantage it would have would be low cost, but once you replace engines and and install all the bits it needs like a modern self defence avionics suite and the fact that it is not currently in Indian service means it would not be that cheap any more... and its performance would not be improved to the medium weight aircraft class...

Personally I would have just taken the 10 billion from the original contract and used it to buy the technology to make the Tegas work as originally planned.

Even dragged MiG into it with their LMFS plans to assist... I am sure they would not say no to the investment.

The struggle between Saab and Lockheed Martin for the Indian Air Force contract for single-engine fighter jets

According to the French bulletin Intelligence online in the publication Les grandes manoevres de SAAB et Lockheed pour vendre leurs avions de chasse a New Delhi, in early September, 2017, it was reported that an alliance had been formed between the Swedish company Saab AB and the Indian holding company Adani Group, which should act at the tender for the purchase of a single-engine fighter by the Indian Air Force. The Indian Air Force program provides for the purchase of 120 fighters. The Ministry of Defense of India at the beginning of summer already sent the Swedes a request for proposals regarding the Saab Gripen NG fighter.

Saab is counting on its new partner to make a surprise. The company Adani Group was founded in 1988 by Gautam Adani in Gujarat, where the current Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is from. As in the case of Adani or the Reliance group, companies from this state received preferences after the arrival of Modi to power, and primarily the defense sector companies. Since late 2016, Adani is also a local partner of the Israeli company Elbit Systems. Both of these companies then established a partnership with Alpha Design Technologies (ADT), an electronics company historically associated with Sudhir Sudhri, a sales agent, to develop a UAV in India. ADT is cooperating in New Delhi with the Italian company Elettronica, which belongs to the groups Leonardo, Thales and the Benini family. After the revelations in the "Panamanian file", Eletronniс fell under suspicion of investigators from the Ministry of Defense of India due to the use of offshore companies and the Panamanian company Intertrade Projects to pay commissions in India.

For a new mega-contract for Saab fighters with a Gripen NG fighter, it competes with Lockheed Martin, which is promoting the F-16 Block 70 fighter to the Indian market. Indian pilots once dreamed of an F-35 Lightinig II fighter, but this hope was quickly dispelled by Washington . Lockheed Martin performs in the Indian competition with his long-term local partner Tata Group. To get 120 single-engine fighters, the Ministry of Defense of India did not send a request to Moscow, which is the country's main partner in the field of armaments. After the arrival of Modi to power, relations between the two countries are increasingly cooled in connection with Russia's rapprochement with China and Pakistan.

On the other hand, although the contract does not refer to the Rafale fighter, the French company Dassault Aviation hopes to conclude a new contract with the Indian Air Force, similar to the finalized contract for this year's 36 fighters, that is, another 36 aircraft. To do this, Dassault strongly relies on his local partner - the Reliance group, owned by Anil Ambani.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2872764.html

I still think mig-35 is better option. India already uses mig-29 makes complete sense. And it would be cheaper. And the mig is just as good as other contenders. This I feel on grounds of F-16 deal is to piss off China and to remove Russia from being main arms supplier. I think India needs to look at who has been providing arms for decades to them without any serious problems or political issues. India only has to look at various south American countries, Iran and Egypt to see how USA treats customers who spent with them.


Saab plans Gripen ecosystem in India

Saab and its Indian partner Adani held an event in New Delhi on 31 October, intended to build industrial alliances in support of the Swedish group’s bid to supply its Gripen E combat aircraft to the Indian Air Force (IAF).

Saab said that the ‘Gripen-India partnership summit’ was geared towards “creating an industrial ecosystem to develop and produce [the] Gripen in India”. Saab has offered the aircraft to meet the IAF’s single-engine fighter requirement.

The deal is framed around a localised production requirement, and could be worth about USD12 billion as the IAF seeks to procure up to 150 aircraft to replace its ageing Russian MiG-21 and MiG-27 fighter aircraft.

To support its localised production proposal, Saab said the summit brought together international Gripen partners – including Honeywell, Leonardo, Harris, and Cobham – and more than 100 Indian suppliers that “Saab and Adani believe can add value to the offering for India”.

Saab added, “This is to start shaping an eco-system for Gripen in India in preparation for the single-engine fighter selection process.”

The summit was held just two months after Saab and Adani announced their partnership to jointly bid for the IAF’s single-engine fighter requirement.

Saab said that it would endeavour to transfer design and manufacturing capabilities to Adani under the collaboration, with the goal of enabling the production of systems in India and promoting general development of the country’s defence industry.

Upon announcing the partnership with Adani, Saab’s president and CEO Håkan Buskhe said, “We are committed to the India-Sweden relationship, and in bringing the latest technology and skills to India. Our plans in India are to create a new defence ecosystem that would involve many partners, vendors, and suppliers. To achieve this, we need a strong Indian partner who can help create the framework for the infrastructure and eco-system to come into place.

http://www.janes.com/article/75370/saab-plans-gripen-ecosystem-in-india?utm_campaign=PC6110_E17%20DF%20NL%20Defence%2007_11_17&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua

$10-billion fighter deal hits tech-transfer air pocket

India’s $10-billion single-engine fighter jet deal is believed to have hit a stumbling block over the contentious issue of transfer of technology (ToT) and equity participation. This is while negotiations are on for the purchase of more Rafale jets from France.

India intends to abandon the tender for single-engine fighters and launch MMRCA-2

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3104209.html

I honestly believe that the reason India hasn't shown much love for the Mig-35 is simply because they aren't interested in more Russian tech, India now wants some of that sweet western technological nectar.
Also some sick fetish to torture their Logistics branch.

BTW, is this MMRCA-2 thing confirmed, Pinto where you at?

Sorry but this is turning into a joke.

The Rafale won the last competition even though from the outset it didn't meet the criteria... they were never going to get 130 odd fighters for 10 billion... it would have been more like 25 billion, so it is their own fault for letting it enter in the first place.

The fact that the second place entry also met the criteria but was half the price of the aircraft that won leads me to think they should not have bought any Rafale fighters and should have bought 60 odd MiG-35s and about 120 MiG-29M2s for the 10 billion dollars they were offering and the problem would have been sorted by now already.

I am sure their relationship with MiG might have been kept good.. but having a single engined fighter programme and telling MiG they should enter the MiG-35 is just taking the piss... especially now they have cancelled that.

If I worked for MiG I would not really think much of India and just focus on supporting their MiG-29s in the air force and navy...

Even if they pick the MiG-35 now I suspect they will demand the new MiG-35s they are working on now for the same price or less than the older less capable model offered in the MRCA programme... MiG wont make much money at all in this... the margins just aren't there.

Hahahaha... in that link in the comments section someone posted that scientists have discovered a way to work out exactly what a woman wants... the only problem is that in the time it takes to work it out she has already changed her mind.... hahahahha

Quite agree with you garryb.  Rafale is far too expensive and they were never were going to get any technology transfer etc. What a complete waste of money and time. India should give themselves a shake and wake up. You only have to look at the hassle Egypt is having now with getting missiles for its rafale.

I wouldn't be surprised if India do the stupid thing of getting F-16 or Gripen which would be a bad move.

India are to quick  forget who has been supplying them with arms and technology for decades. Russia should start to hike prices in response to this blatant stab in the back.

It makes complete and logical sense to buy mig-35. Not only is it fit for purpose and cheaper than the others but they already operate mig-29 so pilot and maintenance  training won't be a problem and technology transfer shouldn't be a problem either. Their made in India projects barely get off the ground. Ok the Tejas has been a joke but if they do succeed in getting into full production then it might be OK. But I still feel that they could have just bought mig-29M2 or yak-130 with more powerful engines instead of tejas, tejas could be still used as a trainer then buy mig-35 for its MMRCA program. So effectively they could operate Su-30, mig-35, mig-29k, and mig-29M2/yak-130, FGFA , oh and there 36 rafale and this would streamline things and provide easier technology transfer and maintenance. In the future possibly the mig-41 could be of use. They could purchase mig-31BME as a stop gap. Surprised they didn't once mig-25 was retired. I wonder if India will ever purchase Su-35 and Su-34?

Su-34 would be ideal for jaguar and mig-27 replacement.

Mirage 2000 could be replaced by Su-35 in the distant future. Or more Su-30.

As for the Apache Procurement I still think India should have just purchased mi-35 or a mix of mi-35 and mi-28. Or course ka-52 could be useful also. Always found it strange that considering the size of the Indian airforce and the small number of attack helicopters.

Am also surprised that India never purchased Su-24M2 even as a stop gap for mig-27 I know that the mig-27 had upgrades which might have been the reason.

India could also have saved money if they bought production rights for ansat this would have fulfilled the role of Dhruv and the ansat 2RC fulfilled the role of rudra would have saved all the research and development costs.

Seeing as they tejas had parts of mig-21 in it I am also surprised India didn't copy the mig-27 or buy rights from Russia with upgrades of course.

India is better off buying production rights saving them billions and they could still produce trainers and small arms and some vehicles. Really crazy the way they are wasting time and money. Iran is the same although in their defence they have sanctions.

But India will never learn they will continue to purchase expensive equipment with NO technology transfers and throw and waste billions into made in India projects. Nothing will change.

India are to quick forget who has been supplying them with arms and technology for decades. Russia should start to hike prices in response to this blatant stab in the back.

I agree... and not just as punishment... new technology costs money so the new things they are demanding will cost more... but still a fraction of the cost of developing these things themselves so in that sense they are still getting bargains...

Computer printers are generally rather cheap to buy... the real cost is in the printer inks... over the life time of a printer the actual purchase price is only a tiny fraction of the money spent on ink.

In other words some guy walks in off the street and asks to buy a printer really really cheap but also demands to be able to refill the ink cartridges himself and you kinda thing that the money invested in developing the printer and producing the ink is not going to be returned in this sort of deal so in actual fact despite wanting to sell printers... so you can sell ink cartridges,.. you really don't benefit from 2 years negotiating a deal with this guy... especially if he tells his friends it is a crap printer anyway. (No printer is perfect... there are always things that can be improved or changed).

So effectively they could operate Su-30, mig-35, mig-29k, and mig-29M2/yak-130, FGFA , oh and there 36 rafale and this would streamline things and provide easier technology transfer and maintenance. In the future possibly the mig-41 could be of use.

And that is the problem... they went from a mixed fleet including MiGs and mirages and jaguars to a fleet with some MiGs and Sukhois... it was going to be an all Russian fleet.

In every airforce where there are western and ex Soviet aircraft you always get factions for each side all through the power structure and I am sure those that flew the Mirage 2000 are screaming that if they get rid of all foreign fighters except Russian then they will be held to ransome by the Russians and parts will take years to get and meanwhile their aircraft will be grounded and useless and India will be vulnerable blah blah blah.

Of course local production of aircraft and major consumables should resolve those issues but they wont hear that... some manager can save some money not buying spares right away and just ordering them when they need them... for which he will likely give himself a fat bonus...

I wonder if India will ever purchase Su-35 and Su-34?

I rather suspect they will continue to upgrade the Su-30MKI to their level, while the FGA can do anything the 30MKI can't.

Su-34 would be ideal for jaguar and mig-27 replacement.

I don't agree... the Jaguar and MiG-27 are pretty much medium weight short to medium range strike aircraft, while the Su-34 is a heavy weight medium to long range strike aircraft... I would say the short and medium range strike roles have gone and have been replaced by medium multirole aircraft like the MiG-29SMT/M2/35 type aircraft that can perform both attack (MiG-27, Su-17) and air to air (MiG-23, MiG-21, Su-15/-21) roles.

They sort of fill the gap between CAS (Su-25) and super heavy theatre strike (Tu-22M3, Tu-160) in the air to ground role and the short to medium range air to air role supported by the longer ranged Su-35 and Su-57, and the dedicated interceptor MiG-31 and soon MiG-41.

Mirage 2000 could be replaced by Su-35 in the distant future. Or more Su-30.

It could, but their model is diversity so a western plane needs to be replaced by a western plane or the model needs to be changed.

Air forces don't generally change models very easily.

[qutoe]As for the Apache Procurement I still think India should have just purchased mi-35 or a mix of mi-35 and mi-28. Or course ka-52 could be useful also. Always found it strange that considering the size of the Indian airforce and the small number of attack helicopters. [/quote]

No argument there, but they have made their choice. I think part of the low numbers is because of the cost and the fact that it is a new area for them and they have to learn to use it effectively before rolling it out everywhere.

Am also surprised that India never purchased Su-24M2 even as a stop gap for mig-27 I know that the mig-27 had upgrades which might have been the reason.

The Fencer is in a different class... I suspect if India introduced Fencers then the US might have sold Pakistan some F-111s... which would not have been in Indian interests. For the same reason I don't think India would buy Backfires either... even though they would be rather potent with hypersonic Brahmos II model missiles.

Seeing as they tejas had parts of mig-21 in it I am also surprised India didn't copy the mig-27 or buy rights from Russia with upgrades of course.

Aircraft have generations... and not just because the US says so... aircraft of the MiG-21 generation had that wing shape for flight performance... ie some ability to turn and supersonic speed potential. The next generation was the MiG-23 which tried to combine fast speed and short landing and takeoff strips... there were pretty much two options then... swing wing and lift jets... they went with swing wings.

The next generation was the MiG-29 and Su-27 with new shapes and engines that combined high speed and reasonable takeoff run length.

Because of this I would not bother upgrading MiG-21s or MiG-23s... I would look seriously at a MiG-29 shape with one engine for a light fighter... in fact I would look at the FGA for the shape and fit one engine in it and make it smaller and much less ambitious to make a light 5th gen fighter...

India is better off buying production rights saving them billions and they could still produce trainers and small arms and some vehicles. Really crazy the way they are wasting time and money. Iran is the same although in their defence they have sanctions.

I agree... and that is exactly what Russia did... at the end of the cold war the Soviets realised they had invested in low light level TV when there was clearly more potential in thermal imagers... but they were seriously behind. They set up contracts with the French company Thales and many other western companies to locally produce new model thermal imagers and then learned and caught up... it took a couple of decades but their new models seem to be every bit as good as western models now.

This is not new... the Soviets licence produced lots of aircraft and trucks and other things before, during, and after WWII.

But India will never learn they will continue to purchase expensive equipment with NO technology transfers and throw and waste billions into made in India projects. Nothing will change.

Their real problem is that they want the technology transfer but they don't want to pay very much for that... which is why the company that owns the technology rarely feels like actually transferring the technology.

What they should be doing is buying the technologies they need outright and locally producing them... an example would be modern jet engines... find an ideal engine and pay for a production facility to be built in India and then pay for the contracts to supply that engine to major users around the world... and of course use it widely domestically for every thing it could possibly be used for...

With the experience you get from that set up some of your existing engine makers and get them trained up... even if it is not super high tech bleeding edge... just a good useful reliable powerful engine that can be used for a wide range of things, from land, sea, and air... It wont make India a world leader in jet engines... but it is a start... they are never going to buy themselves to the top of the world game... and even if they could it would cost too much to stay there.