Russian Sniper Rifles

George1 wrote:A combat variant prototype of Orsis K-15 Brat with a burst mode in 7.62 x 51 mm. Reminds of FN SCAR- looks, calibre & system wise - most likely features a short-stroke gas piston & gas regulator.Probably intended for export market but might find its way into some spetsnaz units.



https://twitter.com/Russian_Defence/status/990195885907816448

GarryB wrote:Likely for export.

Want them to come out with a replacement round for the 7.62 x 54mm... something like the 6x49mm or something newer...

GunshipDemocracy wrote:
6x49mm I've read recently (not bookmarked the source tho  ) that in US  there is discussion that 6x45mm is much better then Grendel in terms of terminal energy not to mention universality for LMGs and  flat trajectory.
7.62×35mm
BTW there were lotsa discussions that 7,62x39mm is old Soviet crap and now in US they "discovered" 0.3 blackout  7,62x35mm

Waht Russians could to is to play with ballistic coefficient and lower a bit weight of bullet so terminal energy is at least the sam eand trajectory flatter for longer distance. Not to mention costs saving to keep millions of AK chambered 7,62x39  as perspective weapons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_AAC_Blackout

Militarov wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:
6x49mm I've read recently (not bookmarked the source tho  ) that in US  there is discussion that 6x45mm is much better then Grendel in terms of terminal energy not to mention universality for LMGs and  flat trajectory.
7.62×35mm
BTW there were lotsa discussions that 7,62x39mm is old Soviet crap and now in US they "discovered" 0.3 blackout  7,62x35mm

Waht Russians could to is to play with ballistic coefficient and lower a bit weight of bullet so terminal energy is at least the sam eand trajectory flatter for longer distance. Not to mention costs saving to keep millions of AK chambered 7,62x39  as perspective weapons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_AAC_Blackout

And some quality control too to be honest.

https://warhead.su/2018/04/26/luchshie-v-mire-chto-ne-tak-s-rossiyskimi-patronami

I got box of 7,62x54R "Extra" last year from Novosibirsk ammo factory in one shop here (on my genuine suprise its available), and it was quite shubby, actually quite horrid compared to Serbian PPU and Winchester i mostly buy. Box contained 20, one failed for unknown reasons, one was "delaborated" by the loading mechanism of Izmash "Tiger" carabine.

KoTeMoRe wrote: That is no quality control issue it is an ethical issue. How many dinosaur surplus cans have been passed as new rounds?

This is a managerial problem. Will remain so until some suit is hanging by the balls.

6x49mm I've read recently (not bookmarked the source tho Sad ) that in US there is discussion that 6x45mm is much better then Grendel in terms of terminal energy not to mention universality for LMGs and flat trajectory.

7.62×35mm
BTW there were lotsa discussions that 7,62x39mm is old Soviet crap and now in US they "discovered" 0.3 blackout 7,62x35mm

Waht Russians could to is to play with ballistic coefficient and lower a bit weight of bullet so terminal energy is at least the sam eand trajectory flatter for longer distance. Not to mention costs saving to keep millions of AK chambered 7,62x39 as perspective weapons

but gents as for making "lightweight" 7,62x39mm say trading 125g bullet to 70-80 to increase AK initial energy and velocity? does it make sense?

George1 wrote:Russia to upgrade heavy sniper rifle

MOSCOW, May 30. /TASS/. Russia’s 12.7mm heavy sniper rifle OSV-96 will be upgraded to get a new cartridge and become a precision gun, a representative of the Shipunov Instrument-Making Design Bureau (the rifle’s developer) told TASS on Wednesday


More:
http://tass.com/defense/1007174

but gents as for making "lightweight" 7,62x39mm say trading 125g bullet to 70-80 to increase AK initial energy and velocity? does it make sense?

GarryB wrote:

but gents as for making "lightweight" 7,62x39mm say trading 125g bullet to 70-80 to increase AK initial energy and velocity? does it make sense?

The new rifle I recently bought is the 5.6x39mm Bars-4-1.... it is basically the 7.62x39mm case necked down to 5.6mm... it comes in two versions... one with a FMJ round and one with a soft nose hunting round... muzzle velocity is between 1km/s and 1.2km/s.

Compared with the 5.45x39mm this 5.6mm round has a much fatter cartridge case and therefore more powder, but is limited by a short stumpy projectile that dumps speed rapidly.

Regarding your original question, in the US they took the 5.6x39mm and scaled it to make the .22PPC and the 6mmPPC rounds... which are the standard for bench rest shooting out to 300m in terms of accuracy and performance.

The Grendel round is also based on the round too...

Hypersonic sniper cartridges can be developed in Russia within the next year

MOSCOW, September 25 - RIA News. Hypersonic sniper cartridges can be developed in Russia within the next year, told RIA Novosti the founder and chief designer of the arms company Lobaev Arms Vladislav Lobaev.

"We are closely studying this topic, I think, with a certain state support already in a state for a year to create a sniper cartridge with the initial speed of a bullet flight of two thousand meters a second." This is hypersound, "Lobaev said.

According to him, such cartridges are needed for high-precision sniper weapons, which will provide a new level of range and accuracy of aimed fire. He noted that such cartridges will be equipped not with gunpowder, but with detonating chemicals of a special composition.

Most modern sniper rifles and cartridges report bullets with an initial speed of up to 1200 meters per second.

Lobaev Arms is a brand owned by KB Integrated Systems, which in turn is included in the group of companies "LOBAEV", a Russian company, which was founded in 2013 in the Kaluga region.

True but my point was if without any sinigficatn changes you can use 7,62x39mm but trade of weight of round for better energy and range? not 8g but say 6g and ~800m/s?

GarryB wrote:

You can make the 7.62x39mm bullet lighter but if you keep the same diameter then you end up with a short stubby bullet with very poor aerodynamic shape.

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A 120 grain bullet moving at 730m/s at the muzzle but 300m/s at 300m is going to have a more curved trajectory than a 12 grain flechette fired from a 5.6x39mm case at 1,800m/s that is still moving at 1,600m/s at 800m.

Note during the tests for new rifles in the US the Steyr entry which used flechettes for projectiles had fixed iron sights because there was no need  to allow for bullet drop out to 800m...

The only problem was that unless they hit something hard like a belt buckle they punched a pin hole in the target and were not very lethal...

No doubt this is right. You provided correct however extreme examples either 10g or 2,8g. Why not 800m/s and 7g ?  Nevertheless there is  an optimum between muzzle energy (velocity/weight)  delivered and transferred to target in desired distance.  But ok just my considerations, I guess making anything like that for existing 7,62x39mm weapons (or future ones) make poor cost/effect ratio.

Regarding this new news with new propellant and 2km/s muzzle velocities... this is very interesting...
+++
All very interesting...

with new materials many things get possible. Besides it this is a sniper weapon it is not going to shoot massive number of rounds vbut flat trajectory and long range counts...

BTW I m not sure whether this is related but also interesting concept. Mind info form 2016.

A sniper-rocket complex with guided bullet to be created in Russia

Moscow. July 18th. INTERFAX.RU - The Advanced Research Foundation (FPI) is developing new composite barrels and long-range bullets for small arms, said Andrei Grigoriev, director general of the FPI.

“A fundamentally new family of bullets is being created, for example, from two or more metals, with special armor-piercing and long-range properties. Intelligent sights, a promising sniper rocket complex with a controlled bullet, and much more are being designed,” Grigoriev said in an interview to be published in Russian newspaper "on Tuesday.

According to him, the new composite barrels, which are being developed by FPI, "will be much easier than usual."

https://www.interfax.ru/russia/519234

No doubt this is right. You provided correct however extreme examples either 10g or 2,8g. Why not 800m/s and 7g ? Nevertheless there is an optimum between muzzle energy (velocity/weight) delivered and transferred to target in desired distance. But ok just my considerations, I guess making anything like that for existing 7,62x39mm weapons (or future ones) make poor cost/effect ratio.

He noted that such cartridges will be equipped not with gunpowder, but with detonating chemicals of a special composition.