Syrian War: News #12

Haha, this is rich, if true:

Coalition Strikes Daesh Depot With Chemical Weapons in Deir ez-Zor - Syrian MoD

The Syrian General Staff said that the US-led coalition struck a Daesh depot storing chemical weapons in Deir ez-Zor on Wednesday.

According to the Syrian General Staff, the US-led coalition's strike killed several hundred people, including civilians. Hundreds were poisoned as a result of the strike on Daesh's headquarters and depot with chemical weapons.

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201704131052598995-coalition-daesh-chemical-weapons-syria/

BKP wrote:Haha, this is rich, if true:

Coalition Strikes Daesh Depot With Chemical Weapons in Deir ez-Zor - Syrian MoD

The Syrian General Staff said that the US-led coalition struck a Daesh depot storing chemical weapons in Deir ez-Zor on Wednesday.

According to the Syrian General Staff, the US-led coalition's strike killed several hundred people, including civilians. Hundreds were poisoned as a result of the strike on Daesh's headquarters and depot with chemical weapons.

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201704131052598995-coalition-daesh-chemical-weapons-syria/

Several hundred dead from one attack! If true, it had to have been a chemical weapons incident. If true, it will be impossible to cover this up. Awful!

I haven't been able to find much on the web about this incident yet. Just articles that all refer to SANA reporting about a statement from the Syrian General Staff which announced the incident.

Have there been reports on the casualties coming out of the area hospitals?
Any video of the strike site and surrounding area yet?
Any other info on this?

A Different Voice wrote:................

Several hundred dead from one attack! If true, it had to have been a chemical weapons incident. If true, it will be impossible to cover this up. Awful!

I haven't been able to find much on the web about this incident yet. Just articles that all refer to SANA reporting about a statement from the Syrian General Staff which announced the incident.
...............

Oh trust me, this is entry level stuff...

Russia delivering to SyAF the 2nd batch of upgraded Su-24M2s (8 bombers) after first 2 received last Summer.
http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/syria-gains-more-upgraded-su-24m2-bombers.html

A Different Voice wrote:Several hundred dead from one attack! If true, it had to have been a chemical weapons incident. If true, it will be impossible to cover this up. Awful!

I haven't been able to find much on the web about this incident yet. Just articles that all refer to SANA reporting about a statement from the Syrian General Staff which announced the incident.

Have there been reports on the casualties coming out of the area hospitals?
Any video of the strike site and surrounding area yet?
Any other info on this?

Hmm, I've only seen this report on Al-Masdar News in addition to sputnik, so now I'm starting to have doubts. I mean, you'd of course expect western MSN to ignore it since they're just propagandists, but you'd expect alt media to hammer on it. But, at the same time it wouldn't surprise me at all if it were in fact true. We'll see.

The US has admitted today killing 18 SDF by accident in Tabqa.


The US-led coalition accidentally struck the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) in Tabqa, killing 18 moderate Syrian rebels fighting against Daesh. The incident occurred on April 11.

"The strike was requested by the partnered forces, who had identified the target location as an ISIS [Daesh] fighting position," the US Central Command said in a press release. "The target location was actually a forward Syrian Democratic Forces fighting position."

The coalition is probing the cause of the incident, according to the release.

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201704131052606839-us-coalition-sdf-killed/

Very easy to cover up an attack when the locals control what information gets out.

If the locals are anti Assad there would be no information about a nuclear strike by the US unless somehow they could blame the Syrian government, Iranians, or Russians for it...

GarryB wrote:Very easy to cover up an attack when the locals control what information gets out.

If the locals are anti Assad there would be no information about a nuclear strike by the US unless somehow they could blame the Syrian government, Iranians, or Russians for it...

Some poorly research article from Jane's

http://www.janes.com/article/69581/tomahawk-strike-in-syria-stokes-debate-about-performance-of-russian-air-defences

But I wonder Garry, why didn't the Mig 31 & Su 30 that are carrying look down, shoot down missiles, shoot down the Tomahawk cruise missiles?

jhelb wrote:

GarryB wrote:Very easy to cover up an attack when the locals control what information gets out.

If the locals are anti Assad there would be no information about a nuclear strike by the US unless somehow they could blame the Syrian government, Iranians, or Russians for it...

Some poorly research article from Jane's

http://www.janes.com/article/69581/tomahawk-strike-in-syria-stokes-debate-about-performance-of-russian-air-defences

But I wonder Garry, why didn't the Mig 31 & Su 30 that are carrying look down, shoot down missiles, shoot down the Tomahawk cruise missiles?

Because when just a couple of AB's, off of our islands, launch a volley of TLAMs (highlight, some were dedicated bunker-busting versions) against the Syrian military, there's absolutely nothing the entire Russian contingent in Syria can do. Those few/old aircraft are nowhere near capable to deal with such level and scale of 'big boy' war escalation. One that is quite reckless, but nevertheless overcomes whatever Russia has to offer in that theater (wunderwaffe hype aside). The USN didn't even have to try hard for all that.

Which goes to show how helpful it is as major world power, to have an actual Navy and not just focus in building a collection of some few glorified gunboats or half a dozen of frigates (named as destroyers).

jhelb wrote:

But I wonder Garry, why didn't the Mig 31 & Su 30 that are carrying look down, shoot down missiles, shoot down the Tomahawk cruise missiles?

Apart from any other reason there are no known Mig-31s in Syria.[/quote]

JohninMK wrote:

jhelb wrote:

But I wonder Garry, why didn't the Mig 31 & Su 30 that are carrying look down, shoot down missiles, shoot down the Tomahawk cruise missiles?

Apart from any other reason there are no known Mig-31s in Syria.

There's this ongoing internet myth, since the late 90s or early 00s, that Syria had received a few MiG-31s or even MiG-29SMTs (back then). Much like the rumors of Iran acquiring Flankers, it's all rubbish.

KiloGolf wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

jhelb wrote:

GarryB wrote:

But I wonder Garry, why didn't the Mig 31 & Su 30 that are carrying look down, shoot down missiles, shoot down the Tomahawk cruise missiles?

Apart from any other reason there are no known Mig-31s in Syria.

There's this ongoing internet myth, since the late 90s or early 00s, that Syria had received a few MiG-31s or even MiG-29SMTs (back then). Much like the rumors of Iran acquiring Flankers, it's all rubbish.

My fault, due to my sloppy editing the original quote was credited to Garry not jhelb. Have corrected my post but can't correct KiloGolfs.

KiloGolf wrote:........

Because when just a couple of AB's, off of our islands, launch a volley of TLAMs (highlight, some were dedicated bunker-busting versions) against the Syrian military, there's absolutely nothing the entire Russian contingent in Syria can do. ......

Not exactly, there was plenty they could do had those missiles flew anywhere close to Russian systems. They didn't. Even we were able to shoot down loads of cruise missiles back in 99 while being swarmed by entire NATO air power.

However USA are not stupid. They sent those missile way around any Russian systems because logically they wanted to avoid both losing the missiles in the process and needlessly provoking Russia with nothing to gain from it.

This event was masterclass in dick waving and measuring from both sides but we should get back to the real world.

USA sending missiles trough Russian "turf" in Syria even with plenty of heads-up would be very undesirable scenario with too many possibilities for things to snowball. Same goes other way around.

JohninMK wrote:The US has admitted today killing 18 SDF by accident in Tabqa.
.........

Meh, it happens, this is war...

SAA really need to pull their weight, a change of strategy is needed here. Have Russian/Iranians strategists/instructors in charge of each front.

https://southfront.org/hayaat-tahrir-al-sham-is-about-to-capture-al-minshyah-neighborhood-in-daraa/

par far wrote:SAA really need to pull their weight, a change of strategy is needed here. Have Russian/Iranians strategists/instructors in charge of each front.

https://southfront.org/hayaat-tahrir-al-sham-is-about-to-capture-al-minshyah-neighborhood-in-daraa/

The problem with Daara is of manpower. All the reserves are deployed to the north of Hama and south of Palmyra so they simply cannot spare them for Daara.

PapaDragon wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:........

Because when just a couple of AB's, off of our islands, launch a volley of TLAMs (highlight, some were dedicated bunker-busting versions) against the Syrian military, there's absolutely nothing the entire Russian contingent in Syria can do. ......

Not exactly, there was plenty they could do had those missiles flew anywhere close to Russian systems. They didn't. Even we were able to shoot down loads of cruise missiles back in 99 while being swarmed by entire NATO air power.

However USA are not stupid. They sent those missile way around any Russian systems because logically they wanted to avoid both losing the missiles in the process and needlessly provoking Russia with nothing to gain from it.

This event was masterclass in dick waving and measuring from both sides but we should get back to the real world.

USA sending missiles trough Russian "turf" in Syria even with plenty of heads-up would be very undesirable scenario with too many possibilities for things to snowball. Same goes other way around.

Planning the TLAM route so that the missiles would avoid those Russian SAMs and yet hit hardened shelters and other targets in a major airbase where Russian personnel are stationed, is just smart and proves that USN capability is comfortably superior.

KiloGolf wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:........

Because when just a couple of AB's, off of our islands, launch a volley of TLAMs (highlight, some were dedicated bunker-busting versions) against the Syrian military, there's absolutely nothing the entire Russian contingent in Syria can do. ......

Not exactly, there was plenty they could do had those missiles flew anywhere close to Russian systems. They didn't. Even we were able to shoot down loads of cruise missiles back in 99 while being swarmed by entire NATO air power.

However USA are not stupid. They sent those missile way around any Russian systems because logically they wanted to avoid both losing the missiles in the process and needlessly provoking Russia with nothing to gain from it.

This event was masterclass in dick waving and measuring from both sides but we should get back to the real world.

USA sending missiles trough Russian "turf" in Syria even with plenty of heads-up would be very undesirable scenario with too many possibilities for things to snowball. Same goes other way around.

Planning the TLAM route so that the missiles would avoid those Russian SAMs and yet hit hardened shelters and other targets in a major airbase where Russian personnel are stationed, is just smart and proves that USN capability is comfortably superior.

Certainly a different order of tasking magnitude from a flight of half a dozen Kalibre.

KiloGolf wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:........

Because when just a couple of AB's, off of our islands, launch a volley of TLAMs (highlight, some were dedicated bunker-busting versions) against the Syrian military, there's absolutely nothing the entire Russian contingent in Syria can do. ......

Not exactly, there was plenty they could do had those missiles flew anywhere close to Russian systems. They didn't. Even we were able to shoot down loads of cruise missiles back in 99 while being swarmed by entire NATO air power.

However USA are not stupid. They sent those missile way around any Russian systems because logically they wanted to avoid both losing the missiles in the process and needlessly provoking Russia with nothing to gain from it.

This event was masterclass in dick waving and measuring from both sides but we should get back to the real world.

USA sending missiles trough Russian "turf" in Syria even with plenty of heads-up would be very undesirable scenario with too many possibilities for things to snowball. Same goes other way around.

Planning the TLAM route so that the missiles would avoid those Russian SAMs and yet hit hardened shelters and other targets in a major airbase where Russian personnel are stationed, is just smart and proves that USN capability is comfortably superior.

Russia chose not to hit those missiles IMO, that's why they evacuated the base.

KiloGolf wrote:.........
Planning the TLAM route so that the missiles would avoid those Russian SAMs and yet hit hardened shelters and other targets in a major airbase where Russian personnel are stationed, is just smart and proves that USN capability is comfortably superior.

Following preplanned trajectory is basic function of any cruise missile. In fact, defining feature you could say.

Hitting a target on preselected coordinates is another. So this is hardly "superior capability" and more like bare basic product feature.

Avoiding Russian defenses simply involved punching in points A, B, C, D and E so that they go around Hmeim and Tartous bases where 90% of Russian SAM systems were located.

There were no Russian air defenses in targeted airbase. So those missiles just followed trajectory and landed on target. Nothing super impressive, just basic LACM functionality....and Russian willingness to play along in the charade.

In Break With Admin Officials, Mattis Says That Syrian Regime Change Is Not A Priority

https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/853037495331803136

PapaDragon wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:.........
Planning the TLAM route so that the missiles would avoid those Russian SAMs and yet hit hardened shelters and other targets in a major airbase where Russian personnel are stationed, is just smart and proves that USN capability is comfortably superior.

Following preplanned trajectory is basic function of any cruise missile. In fact, defining feature you could say.

Hitting a target on preselected coordinates is another. So this is hardly "superior capability" and more like bare basic product feature.

Avoiding Russian defenses simply involved punching in points A, B, C, D and E so that they go around Hmeim and Tartous bases where 90% of Russian SAM systems were located.

There were no Russian air defenses in targeted airbase. So those missiles just followed trajectory and landed on target. Nothing super impressive, just basic LACM functionality....and Russian willingness to play along in the charade.

So basically, Russians stationed their key anti-IS assets (Hinds, Hokums, etc.) in an airbase that the USN with just 2 destroyers can trash as it pleases. I know about preselected coordinates and all, my point was that the Russian posture and position in Syria is very vulnerable to merely some few assets the US can easily deploy in friendly waters, very far away. Makes those kalibr/gunboat videos from the Caspian sea look like a tiny insignificant sideshow and the Russian position in "their part of Syria" rather weak in the eyes of other serious countries (e.g. the PRC). They haven't thought this through at all, and it took Trump one simple decision to show who's the boss in Syria proper. Shayrat is right bang in the middle of regime-held Syria.

Trump upped the game and is in effective control of it now. The ball is in Putin's court, and he needs to show what exactly his exit strategy is in Syria, before he leaves office next year. Idlib doesn't exactly go well for Russia/Assad, same for vast areas in the south, where the new ''FSA'' (green areas) has gained within a few weeks of Trump coming in-office, tremendous areas of land in Suwayda, Damascus and Homs regions.

Russia and Assad sat there and watched as it happened and got severely TLAM'ed on top of that.

But I wonder Garry, why didn't the Mig 31 & Su 30 that are carrying look down, shoot down missiles, shoot down the Tomahawk cruise missiles?

As mentioned there are no MiG-31s in Syria and those aircraft that could shoot down cruise missiles are used to escort attack aircraft.... unless there was a Russian attack on Daesh positions at 4am that occured near Syrian government positions then there would not likely be any Russian fighters in the air at the time of the missiles flight time.

Daesh has no air force so there is no reason to have a CAP ready to scramble on warning of an attack.

A low flying cruise missile could not be differentiated from a UAV or UCAV and so the decision to actually shoot one down needs authorisation too.

Planning the TLAM route so that the missiles would avoid those Russian SAMs and yet hit hardened shelters and other targets in a major airbase where Russian personnel are stationed, is just smart and proves that USN capability is comfortably superior.

Bullshit.

If they were super stealthy all powerful missiles they all would have hit the airfield... instead more than half never even made it.

Navigating around air defences and hitting point targets is what all long range cruise missiles do... the fact that more than half of them never even made it to target means they are definitely inferior.

.and Russian willingness to play along in the charade.

A bit like saying the USAF allowing the aircraft to hit the world trade centre and the pentagon was playing along with Osama bin ladens plan...

Russian SAMs were there to protect Russian forces... they didn't shoot down US cruise missiles just like the didn't shoot down US aircraft or Israeli aircraft over Syria.

KiloGolf wrote:.........

So basically, Russians stationed their key anti-IS assets (Hinds, Hokums, etc.) in an airbase that the USN with just 2 destroyers can trash as it pleases.

No, Russia stationed tiny fraction of their anti-IS assets in the airbase that USN needs 2 whole destroyers to strike successfully.

Assets with actual value are stationed at places that would require far larger number of vessels to strike on top of willingness to initiate nuclear war.

KiloGolf wrote:
...... my point was that the Russian posture and position in Syria is very vulnerable to merely some few assets the US can easily deploy in friendly waters, very far away. Makes those kalibr/gunboat videos from the Caspian sea look like a tiny insignificant sideshow and the Russian position in "their part of Syria" rather weak in the eyes of other serious countries (e.g. the PRC)....

Fact that some god forsaken dump in the middle of the desert used almost exclusively by SAA  needed 2 full sized destroyers to hit says more about USN than it does about Russia. PRC can watch all they want but they won't be any wiser.

KiloGolf wrote:
.....They haven't thought this through at all, and it took Trump one simple decision to show who's the boss in Syria proper. Shayrat is right bang in the middle of regime-held Syria.....

And nobody gives a shit about Syria to put it bluntly. You are thinking about this like Syrian or Iranian. Don't. Try to think about it as if you were Russian. This was never about Syria. It's about securing strategic assets/bases (already done) and exterminating terrorists (ongoing). Stability, politics, human rights, refugees and all that other crap is just bonus.

KiloGolf wrote:
....Trump upped the game and is in effective control of it now.....

Yes, so much that he has Mattis the Mad Dog going on record yesterday that regime change is not on the menu in addition to making big firework in A-stan as a distraction and immediately revving up NK issue just to tone it down several days later.

Does anyone even talk about Syria/gas/cruise missiles in media anymore little over a week later? Nope, water under the bridge and nice little distraction from domestic issues that did not work at all to alleviate those domestic issues.

KiloGolf wrote:
...... The ball is in Putin's court, and he needs to show what exactly his exit strategy is in Syria, before he leaves office next year.....

Exist strategy for what? They will not be going anywhere for 50-75 years pending contract extension. Putin will be dead and buried long before that.

I don't think these images will make it into tomorrow's Western MSN but it is getting to Sputnik, no details yet

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201704151052670371-blast-syria-evacuees-aleppo/

 Ian Grant‏ @Gjoene 4m4 minutes ago

This again proves that not #ISIS is threat to #Syrian people, But #AlQaeda and their "moderate" allies, threatening to exterminate Syrians


Ian Grant‏ @Gjoene 6m6 minutes ago

This is what I was afraid of, rebels trying to exterminate Shia evacuees from #Kafarya and #Foua. Just horrible


EDIT NOT WS some bodies

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9dL8AIXsAAPD2_.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9dJ3qhW0AEI8SU.jpg

NDF‏ @NatDefFor 16m16 minutes ago

#BREAKING
Jihadists scums blow themself in Rashideen station where residents from Foah and Kafraya waiting for evacution
Dozens dead

@GarryB

60 CM started, one failed so at all 61 were started. Another one crashed into the ocean and one CM hit a village killing a few civilians. 58 CM hit the air base.

The number of half occurred due to a journalist counting only 23 or so crates, in the first hours after the strike. It should be clear, that after the first hours nothing is clear!!! In reality a lot of CM were programmed for the same target. So some shelters were hit by 2 CM. The statement in sputniknews was not a official statement of Russian MoD!!!

Russia would do best not taking information from every Syrian bum and instead wait a bit to verify information! Credibility in war is A and O!

Were was NO interception from AD systems and no electronic countermeasure, so why should around 30 battle proven CM fail!? Of course the CM hit only Syrian crap, nothing important.