Russian VSHORADS Thread

If 7 ton is to be kept then unlikely with Gatlings.

Most of the weight is ammo... the 30mm gatlings the Russians have are about 150kgs in the 6 barrel models... even trying the Tunguska approach with twin barrel models that only reduces the weight by about 35kgs per gun plus a rate of fire reduction from 6,000 rpm to 2,500 rpm per gun.

Personally I understand combining missile and gun systems on land vehicles but I think it is a little redundant on ships... a few SOSNA mounts with missiles and a couple of Duet mounts with twin 30mm gatlings make rather more sense to me... especially for smaller boats.

True but here IMHO mass and place is crucial parameter. With weight in same order or magnitude as GIbka you got say in NATO terms RAM-21 level of little ship protection. BTW as for guns much better option IMHO is to use 57/76 or even 100mm guns with programmable air burst ammo to counter missiles. Range is at least 2x and this gives practically a wall of tungsten balls for every incoming missile ...

You can't fire a warning shot with Gibka... guns together with missiles offer the best possible protection and flexibility.

A burst of 30mm cannon shells off to the side can serve as a warning.

30mm gatlings are always ready to fire, whereas with a heavy calibre weapon IMHO I would go for guided shells against missiles and aircraft...

Upgraded Tunguska with a Thermal-Optical Auto tracking system and reportedly improved radar parameters (max effective vertical range increased to 6000m)

Nice video from testing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP3mg599b9g

Entering service seems to be just around the corner

Viktor wrote:Entering service seems to be just around the corner  

Is this Sosna-R?

George1 wrote:Is this Sosna-R?

Yes it is.

- I assume the Sosnas will replace the Strela-10s and Strela-1s in service, as well as the VDVs BTR-ZD vehicles. Albeit the Strela-10s are currently getting upgraded, so they'll be around for a while.
- We also have Tor-M1/M2s steadily replacing the Osa vehicles.
- The Pantsirs haven't been procured for the Ground Forces yet but I assume that they eventually will be (although the Tunguskas easily have a couple upgrade cycles left in them); whereupon it will start replacing the Tunguskas there.

How's this for a prognosis

Right now the Ground Forces have: ZU-23-2s + Strela-1s + Strela-10s + Osas + Tors + Tunguskas (ZU-23-4s in reserve)
Within the next 10 years the balance will change to: Zu-23-2s + Strela-10s + Sosnas + Tors + Tunguskas + Pantsirs (Strela-1s, Osas, ZU-23-4s in reserve)
And eventually to: Zu-23-2s + Sosnas + Tors + Pantsirs (Strela-10s, Osas, Tunguskas in reserve)

The VDV currently has: BTR-ZDs + Strela-10s*
Within the next 10 years the balance will change to: Sosnas + Pantsirs** (BTR-ZDs in reserve)
* The Strela-10s are not air-droppable, so they will probably be replaced with some priority even despite the fact that the VDV only very recently acquired them and have the latest M4 variant.
** If they can create a lightweight Pantsir platform.

The Marines have: Strela-1s + Strela-10s* + Osas + ZU-23-4s
Within the next 10 years the balance will change to: Sosnas + Tors** + Pantsirs (Strela-10s, Osas, ZU-23-4s in reserve)
* They might well get rid of Strela-10s faster than the army as they may well switch to the Kurganets chassis faster (they've long been neglected and are due for some attention and new vehicles).
** Albeit they might just skip on the Tors.

VDV will have MANPADs Sosna-Rs

flamming_python wrote:
- The Pantsirs haven't been procured for the Ground Forces yet but I assume that they eventually will be (although the Tunguskas easily have a couple upgrade cycles left in them); whereupon it will start replacing the Tunguskas there.

Τhe Pantsyrs however are more advanced than Tunguska in terms of range, its a Short to Medium range AS System. Something between Tor and Buk.

I think Pantsyr is the Tunguska analogue in Air Force and in air defence of military/industrial/administrative installations not the replacement of Tunguska in Ground Forces

300 tuguska moderna ok
Fcs to digital. TI optic

I think new life help..

The Strela-10 (known in the west as SA-13 and based on an MTLB chassis instead of the smaller and less capable SA-9 on the BRDM-2 chassis) was a replacement for the ZU-23-2 towed 23mm cannon.

It was a stopgap measure until SOSNA-R is ready.

Among the ground forces I suspect the ZU-23-2 might be replaced by a single gun twin barrel 2A38M cannon on a light trailer... it has been shown in the past with a large EO ball and a quad launcher for SAMs.

Regarding the Tunguska and Pantsir question... I rather suspect all the development of the sensors and systems and missiles that has gone into the Pantsir-S1 will likely be applied to the Tunguska, which will continue in service in the Army. the Pantsir will likely also be adopted by the navy too as its extended missile envelope and improved sensors, as well as its new multi target engagement capability make it a rather more capable system without greatly increasing costs... though it is not cheap to buy... it would be relatively cheap to actually use and flexible with options of missiles and cannon shells.

GarryB wrote:The Strela-10 (known in the west as SA-13 and based on an MTLB chassis instead of the smaller and less capable SA-9 on the BRDM-2 chassis) was a replacement for the ZU-23-2 towed 23mm cannon.

It was a stopgap measure until SOSNA-R is ready.

Among the ground forces I suspect the ZU-23-2 might be replaced by a single gun twin barrel 2A38M cannon on a light trailer... it has been shown in the past with a large EO ball and a quad launcher for SAMs.

Regarding the Tunguska and Pantsir question... I rather suspect all the development of the sensors and systems and missiles that has gone into the Pantsir-S1 will likely be applied to the Tunguska, which will continue in service in the Army. the Pantsir will likely also be adopted by the navy too as its extended missile envelope and improved sensors, as well as its new multi target engagement capability make it a rather more capable system without greatly increasing costs... though it is not cheap to buy... it would be relatively cheap to actually use and flexible with options of missiles and cannon shells.

Yes the Tunguska will certainly continue for a long time, just as the T-90s, BTR-82s, BMP-3s, Msta-Ss, etc... will.

However, when it comes to the Armata/Kurganets/Bumerang-based vehicles; for air defence they will likely use Pantsir modules on their base chassis; and as these vehicle families take over a bigger proportion of the Armed Forces, so too will the Pantsir naturally replace the Tunguska - albeit it will be a slow process.

There is also the 'Morfei' system, and I have no idea how it will fit into all this.

Belarus, Russia Start Development of New Air Defense System

Belarusian Deputy Defense Minister said that Belarus and Russia have started joint development of a new short-range air defense system.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Belarus and Russia have started joint development of a new short-range air defense system to replace the outdated Strela-10M systems currently in service with the Russian and the Belarusian armed forces, Belarusian Deputy Defense Minister Maj. Gen. Igor Lotenkov said.

“The work is being carried out in the framework of the [Russia-Belarus] Union State. The project involves the development of a short-range air defense system,” Lotenkov told RIA Novosti.

The general added that the Strela-10M system was developed in early 1970’s and does not meet current air defense requirements.

Belarus is expecting the delivery of the first six Mi-8MTV-5 military transport helicopters from Russia under the 2015 contract by the end of 2016, Igor Lotenkov said.

The Belarusian Defense Ministry signed a contract with Russian Helicopters during the Army-2015 forum in June on the supply of 12 Mi-8MTV-5 military transport helicopters.

"As to the implementation of the contract on the supply of Mi-8MTV-5 helicopters, signed at the Army-2015 forum, we are planning to finalize the first stage – the delivery of six helicopters – by the end of 2016," Lotenkov said in an interview with RIA Novosti.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150820/1025958282.html#ixzz3jMudYEnf

George1 wrote:Belarus, Russia Start Development of New Air Defense System

Belarusian Deputy Defense Minister said that Belarus and Russia have started joint development of a new short-range air defense system.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Belarus and Russia have started joint development of a new short-range air defense system to replace the outdated Strela-10M systems currently in service with the Russian and the Belarusian armed forces, Belarusian Deputy Defense Minister Maj. Gen. Igor Lotenkov said.

“The work is being carried out in the framework of the [Russia-Belarus] Union State. The project involves the development of a short-range air defense system,” Lotenkov told RIA Novosti.

The general added that the Strela-10M system was developed in early 1970’s and does not meet current air defense requirements.

Belarus is expecting the delivery of the first six Mi-8MTV-5 military transport helicopters from Russia under the 2015 contract by the end of 2016, Igor Lotenkov said.

The Belarusian Defense Ministry signed a contract with Russian Helicopters during the Army-2015 forum in June on the supply of 12 Mi-8MTV-5 military transport helicopters.

"As to the implementation of the contract on the supply of Mi-8MTV-5 helicopters, signed at the Army-2015 forum, we are planning to finalize the first stage – the delivery of six helicopters – by the end of 2016," Lotenkov said in an interview with RIA Novosti.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150820/1025958282.html#ixzz3jMudYEnf

Umm.. isn't that what the Sosna was for?

Perhaps they are doing what they did with Pantsir-S1 with the UAE... joint development with a partner so you can use it domestically and have another guaranteed market at the same time...

Interesting, but i thought Belarus is atm modernising their Osa systems to T38 Stilet standard not sure how much space they have for another SHORAD, wouldnt it be easier just to obtain some Pantisr systems from Russia than developing totally different system to suplement Stilet.

State tests of the newest air defense systems "Sosna" will be completed in 2016

The main difference between the latest anti-missile short-range "Sosna" is increased twice in comparison with analogue, a complex "Strela", hitting the target range - from 5 to 10 kilometers, said the deputy director Sergei Ignatov.

Kuwait, December 9 - RIA Novosti. The state tests of the newest anti-aircraft missile system of short-range "Sosna" will start at the beginning of 2016, so that by the middle of the year to present the complex of the Defense Ministry, told RIA Novosti on Wednesday in Kuwait Deputy Director KBtochmash (developer of the complex) Sergey Ignatov.

"State tests begin in early 2016. We have a representative of the Defense Ministry complex in the middle of the year. Then expect to sign a contract with the Defense Ministry," - said Ignatiev.

According to him, the complex is designed on the technical task the Ministry of Defence, its main difference is increased twice in comparison with analogue, a complex "Strela", hitting the target range - from 5 to 10 kilometers.

The complex can be located on the track platform and the wheel on the boat, on the beach. "The main thing is that the platform meets the load-carrying capacity - of the order of 4 tons," - said Ignatiev.

In Kuwait, passes gun shows Gulf Defense and Aerospace, in which the Russian delegation participated for the first time.

"State trials of the new Russian short-range Sosna missile defense system will begin in early 2016 so that the Russian Defense Ministry can deliver the complex by the middle of the year, a deputy head of the system’s designers said Wedesday.

The system is intended to protect against all types of air threats including high-precision weapons e.g. cruise missiles and guided aircraft missiles in the area of the system responsibility: in range – up to 10 km, in altitude – up to 5 km.

Structure principles

• mount of missile armament with a launcher in one combat vehicle, air search and target tracking equipments, missile flight control units that are combined by integrated optronic combat control system
• missile armament consists of 12 high-speed high-precision maintenance-free missiles SOSNA-R deployed in a launcher. Light weight of the missiles allows to dispose of a transport/loading vehicle from the system
• optimal configuration of surface-to-air guided missile (SAM) payload allows to improve impact effect due to increased weight of spread warheads and application of impact/non-impact laser fuse with continuous circular beam pattern and adaptive burst time
• special multichannel automatic high-precision practically all-weather and day/night optronic control system
• combined missile control system:
– radio command system in start zone
– remote orientation in laser beam after engine division and missile targeting to the line-of-sight
• optronic combat control system with sector scan and in the automate target designation mode provide autonomous target detection capability

Qualities

• high effectiveness of combat application including high-speed and low-flying targets and helicopters during pop-up maneuvers
• high automation of combat processes
• day/night and all-weather capability of combat processes
• concealed fire preparation and high survivability
• unlimited minimum flight altitude of hitting target
• radar and optical countermeasure equipments immunity
• capacity to firing on the move"



Source: http://defence-blog.com/news/russia-to-complete-tests-of-newest-short-range-sosna-missile-defense-system-in-2016.html

http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201601150852-w5gq.htm

Во второй половине 2016 года ЗРК «Сосна» поступит в российскую армию и станет достойным украшением войсковой ПВО: его способности позволяют гарантированно «подчищать» ближние рубежи обороны от воздушного нападения.

In the second half of the year Russian army will start receiving Sosna VSHORAD complexes.

Russia to Present New Mobile Control Unit for MANPADS at Defexpo India 2016

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160328/1037070631/defexpo-india-russia-manpad.html#ixzz44DA6Eyus

just thought i would share some various pics relating to the topic enjoy. the shelter version is the first i have seen, and i really like the idea of the Igla mounted on the GAZ vodnik these would be ideal for protecting Iskander units.

Verba/Gibka on TIGR

TheArmenian wrote:Verba/Gibka on TIGR

Finally they made a simple mobile SAM complex, which I expect for some time. It will be excellent to escort wheeled convoys behind the front lines.