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Sujoy, learn economics. You are spreading bullshit that we already covered.
Russia's economy is diversified.
Christ almighty. This is pathetic
Russia's economy is diversified.
Christ almighty. This is pathetic
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miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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Sujoy- Posts : 2409
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Every country is diversified. Question is what is the contribution of those sectors to that country's GDP?miketheterrible wrote:Sujoy, learn economics. You are spreading bullshit that we already covered.
Russia's economy is diversified.
Christ almighty. This is pathetic
Oil and gas are responsible for more than 60% of Russia's exports and provide more than 30% of the country's gross domestic product (GDP).
https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/exports
Assuming I lied, like you said, why is the Russian economy smaller in size to even Germany, Japan and UK? Those countries have roughly the same population that Russia has. Moreover, they hardly have any meaningful natural resource that they can export. Yet these countries have an economy larger than Russia.
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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Sujoy wrote:Every country is diversified. Question is what is the contribution of those sectors to that country's GDP?miketheterrible wrote:Sujoy, learn economics. You are spreading bullshit that we already covered.
Russia's economy is diversified.
Christ almighty. This is pathetic
Oil and gas are responsible for more than 60% of Russia's exports and provide more than 30% of the country's gross domestic product (GDP).
https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/exports
Assuming I lied, like you said, why is the Russian economy smaller in size to even Germany, Japan and UK? Those countries have roughly the same population that Russia has. Moreover, they hardly have any meaningful natural resource that they can export. Yet these countries have an economy larger than Russia.
No, it does not. You failed at this.
Russian oil and gas account for about 9% of Russias GDP. This was covered by Awaragroup
https://www.awaragroup.com/blog/russian-economy-2014-2016-the-years-of-sanctions-warfare/
So no, you are far from correct.
Plus currency manipulation accounts for it.
Russias economy will surpass Germany in PPP due to the fact of their strong industrial production capabilities. Nominal is bullshit cause it accounts to currency valuation against the USD.
No one with half a brain would recommend or use nominal as it entirely competes against USD prices when in Russia they use what we call Rubles.
Plus way to fail reading comprehension, here is your own link
of which crude oil and natural gas accounted for 26 percent and 12 percent respectively
PPP basis arguably more useful when comparing differences in living standards between nations. A haircut in New York is more expensive than in Lima; the price of a taxi ride of the same distance is higher in Paris than in Tunis; and a ticket to a cricket game costs more in London than in Lahore. PPP is an exchange rate at which the currency of one country is converted into that of the second country in order to purchase the same volume of goods and services in both countries. If a hamburger is selling in London for £2 and in New York for $4, this would imply a PPP exchange rate of 1 pound to 2 U.S. dollars. PPP exchange rates are relatively stable over time. Drawbacks of PPP is that PPP is harder to measure than nominal.
Japan has a strong banking economy. But you see, Russia doesn't survive off of QE (funny money).
Hence why Debt per country makes a difference:
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/69-trillion-of-world-debt-in-one-infographic/
Gee, looks like India is reliant on funny money more so than Russia
which gives indication Russia's economy is far more stable because it doesn't rely on borrowing to be able to meet its demands. Thus development can happen with what they got. This is accumulated through the most important form of financial gain for Russia - its tax system. Which btw, is one of the lowest in the world.
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kvs- Posts : 15840
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The fraction of oil and gas in Russia's GDP is less than 7% since total resource rents which include mining and forestry are included in the
above graphic. The data is from the World Bank.
We see how propaganda works. It is Goebbels style repetition to indoctrination. Every fucking NATzO MSM piece on Russia trots out
the 50% of Russia's GDP lie which is a "mistake" over 50% of Russia's federal tax revenue. (The average sap can't tell the difference anyway).
But the 50% of federal tax is wrong on two counts:
1) The number is 37% and not 50% for the narrow federal budget
2) The number is 18% for the broad or consolidated federal budget
But 18% just means that the Russian government is using taxes on resource extraction instead of income taxes to get revenue. This
is brilliant since it leverages Russia's comparative export advantages and offloads the burden from the population. Collecting
more income tax (currently Russians pay a flat 13% tax) just to have "less dependence" on oil and gas for taxes is beyond retarded.
above graphic. The data is from the World Bank.
We see how propaganda works. It is Goebbels style repetition to indoctrination. Every fucking NATzO MSM piece on Russia trots out
the 50% of Russia's GDP lie which is a "mistake" over 50% of Russia's federal tax revenue. (The average sap can't tell the difference anyway).
But the 50% of federal tax is wrong on two counts:
1) The number is 37% and not 50% for the narrow federal budget
2) The number is 18% for the broad or consolidated federal budget
But 18% just means that the Russian government is using taxes on resource extraction instead of income taxes to get revenue. This
is brilliant since it leverages Russia's comparative export advantages and offloads the burden from the population. Collecting
more income tax (currently Russians pay a flat 13% tax) just to have "less dependence" on oil and gas for taxes is beyond retarded.
kvs- Posts : 15840
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Sujoy wrote:In order to compete with China, EU could have outsourced manufacturing to eastern Europe, instead they outsourced manufacturing to China.Isos wrote:All the eastern countries from EU are just as poor as Serbia. The advantage is that most western EU countries delocalize there and bring them work.Russia has a small but a skilled workforce. Per capita income is 2X that of China. I wonder why in all these years Putin steadfastly refused to diversify the Russian economy. They could have used the petro dollars to create a world class tech industry and a finance industry. Could have easily created a $5 Trillion economy by now and that would have given the Kremlin considerable heft in world affairs. Yet it remains an economy completely dependent on extraction of natural resources and export of weapons.Isos wrote:Russia isn't really a big economic partner. China is no better than US. EU is their last hope.
The Indian MSM is full of retarded parroting of NATzO MSM drivel. Russia is the top few countries on the planet that does not depend on imports.
The routine trick of only looking at its exports to judge its diversification works only on the ignorant. Russia is not a banana republic which does
not produce anything outside of the commodities it exports and imports everything else. But this is exactly what you are claiming, that Russia
only produces oil and gas. If that were true then its GDP would be close to the revenues it gets from exports of oil and gas and from domestic
consumption of these resources. But Russia's actual GDP is several times higher. That proves that the sources you parrot are spreading BS.
Funny how this BS is not applied to Saudi Arabia, a country that is a real banana republic which imports basically everything aside from oil.
The difference is that Saudi Arabia is a US protectorate but Russia is the designated enemy. NATzO propaganda and its parroting by
sycophants is not credible in the least.
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PapaDragon- Posts : 13463
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GarryB wrote:Keep hearing how Russia betrayed all these little countries in the region... quite amusing really because I seem to remember they took a lot of shit from the west over their support for Serbia and other states in the area.
They did? Really?
Wow, this is definitely hot take since every time Russia was about to say that they will support Serbia they would be given a container of expired chicken legs for their starving ''loyal'' masses and a pat on the back after which they would fold like lawn chairs and fall back in line
GarryB wrote:But I guess Russia not being able to save them from all of HATO is a much bigger betrayal and much harder to get over than HATO actually bombing their country
Bulgaria
They were cock blocked by the the military might of the superpower of Bulgaria
It think they simply don't give a fuck really
GarryB wrote:...and murdering their soldiers and policemen and of course helping local terrorists and criminals do the same.
And let's not forget Arabs, Iranians and Palestinians who did their part here (and got the ball rolling back in the late 80s)
Who do you thing was dropping cash in US congress, buying Soviet weapons and sending jihadists to the Balkans?
NATO are assholes but they ain't the only ones in this fun house
GarryB wrote:I do wonder how long Serbia will be in HATO and the EU before they stop thinking of them as being the bad guys that were friends with Russia.
If Belarus and the Ukraine are anything to go by it will be about 4 minutes and 27 seconds (give or take)
And since we never took a shit on Russia despite never getting free money from Russia (unlike everybody else) we still score way higher on that precious ''loyalty'' test
And there is one thing none of you have managed to explain yet: HOW EXACTLY DOES this have anything to do with Russia and how does it affect them in any way?
Russia doesn't have military bases in the region (Kosovo especially), they got no major political or financial investments or interests here and they haven't been making anything of this agreement themselves
They can't even drop a single gas pipe
Only ones getting their tampons clogged over this are assorted subjects of Queen Elisabeth who exhibit severe cases of Russia fanboyism
I will again reiterate my main point: none of this has anything to do with Serbia or even Russia for that matter for any of you
It's all about word ''Jerusalem'' on that paper
In that document USA could have handed over control of entire Balkan peninsula to Belgrade but local fanboys would still be throwing shit fits over it and screaming about ''betrayal of Russia'' because their main priority which are the Palestinians were getting some more of their comeuppance
Without it this news would not have even ended up here
And 90% the people here couldn't care less about Russia despite all their rants because they simply don't give a shit about Russia and they never did
No on this topic or anything else discussed here
They only see Russia as potential tool to get those accursed Jews in Israel and to do the dirty work of Saudis, Iranians, Palestinians and other assorted Jihadi lowlifes who can't fight their own wars because they know they will get ripped to shreds like cheap condoms
So please, spare me the fake outrage, nobody cares about ''poor little'' Abdul in Gaza Strip
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GarryB- Posts : 40489
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In order to compete with China, EU could have outsourced manufacturing to eastern Europe, instead they outsourced manufacturing to China.
Originally to defeat the Soviets they used the Chinese for cheap manufacturing... when the Soviet Union collapsed they should have moved their factories and investment from China to Eastern Europe... which would have given work to them and stop them coming the european countries looking for work, and the cheap labour and investment would have helped them develop real economies to become useful parts of the EU, but either they were not that smart or didn't really want their new eastern provinces to grow and develop... or possibly a mix of both.
The western mindset is that the west is the first world with all the money and technology, the second world is the commies which does not have the money, but has technology to offer the third world... cheaper but mostly second rate copies of the good stuff (ie ours).
The third world is non aligned countries with resources and people to exploit and make money from... a continuation of colonialism really, but economic rather than physical invasions.
Their problem is that the so called second world has technology that in some cases is better than theirs... 5g communications systems for instance, and China has money and Russia has gotten into a position where they are not in debt to their eyeballs like most western countries are now and they are scared...
Russia has a small but a skilled workforce. Per capita income is 2X that of China. I wonder why in all these years Putin steadfastly refused to diversify the Russian economy.
Their Armed forces basically make everything they currently use... there is no armed force on the planet that can say the same except for countries that don't have armed forces. America doesn't even make the material they use for their tents in the US... it is imported...
It is not up to Putin to diversify the economy, but he has done more than any other leader to do so. They even make Vaccines in Russia...
They could have used the petro dollars to create a world class tech industry and a finance industry.
They make their own 6 axis milling machines and 3D print jet engines, they have a space and aircraft industry that is starting to bloom... and fuck the finance industry.... that is what is wrong with the west.... look at the economic figures for western countries for the last 8 months of lockdown with no production and people in isolation stuck at home... the fact that the effect on their economies was tiny suggests they are not measuring their economy... it is all smoke and mirrors bullshit... who knows what the numbers mean but it has nothing to do with their economy.
Could have easily created a $5 Trillion economy by now and that would have given the Kremlin considerable heft in world affairs.
The only way you get into that game is the way Saudi Arabia did it.... selling their souls... which is why they are such bastards now.
Yet it remains an economy completely dependent on extraction of natural resources and export of weapons.
Weapons every bit as high text and technological as western equivalents which suggests parity... if there was a market for high tech goods they are probably in a better position to meet those needs... most western shit like apple crap is made in China because they can't afford to produce anything in the US...
Which is not to say Americans are better paid than the Chinese because those jobs and those lower pay rates are not in the US, they are all in China... so instead of 10 million workers in the US getting good pay you have 20 million Chinese workers getting OK pay and making 6 times more products that Apple can then sell for bigger profits for those Americans who have to get bullshit fake jobs like hedgefund managers...
Every country is diversified.
No they aren't. Venezuela and Saudi Arabia wouldn't be in trouble if they had diversified their economies... both countries are struggling because they relied on the high price of oil and so now while oil is cheap they have no direct income...
New Zealand relies on farming and tourism for most of its income so things aren't totally rosy here either...
Every country is diversified. Question is what is the contribution of those sectors to that country's GDP?
Oil and gas are responsible for more than 60% of Russia's exports and provide more than 30% of the country's gross domestic product (GDP).
So if every country is diversified but Russia is not and energy export dependent aren't you contradicting yourself even if what you said was true.
If 30% of Russian GDP comes from energy export and gas and oil are cheap at the moment wouldn't Russia be really struggling now because of US sanctions it can't access foreign loans... yet it seems to be balancing its books and increasing its rainy day fund in gold to quite a handsome level these days...
Assuming I lied, like you said, why is the Russian economy smaller in size to even Germany, Japan and UK?
Assuming you are right why are western economies almost unaffected by a global pandemic that led to seriously strict lock downs and many industries grinding to a halt... I mean if production stopping does not effect economic figures then what are those economic figures actually showing?
Almost like the economic indicators they use to show everything is fine are bullshit and not connected to their industries at all... because lets face it, a core part of markets is stability and trust... without it they are a house of cards that collapse, so it makes sense to use indicators that don't change much... like daytime temperatures with a modifier for the time of the year to counter the effect of winter and summer... so temperature deviation from average... most of the time that number will be 1 or 2 above or below average so it would be ideal to keep things calm...
Not realistic, but real can be dangerous... because economists are dicks anyway... they don't care about a company or what it makes or actually does, they just care about its current and near future share price.
Collecting
more income tax (currently Russians pay a flat 13% tax) just to have "less dependence" on oil and gas for taxes is beyond retarded.
To put that in perspective, in New Zealand we have a flat Goods and Services Tax called GST, which is like the British VAT, and it is currently 15%... we also have income tax up to about 33% and a multitude of other taxes like road tax added to fuel costs and car registration etc etc etc.
So when I get paid the government takes up to 33% of that before I get it, but once I get it anything I buy or pay for has GST on it so that is another 15% off my remaining 67% of the income I get in the hand... and after this Covid stuff they will likely want to raise GST to 18 or 20% to cover the extra costs...
They did? Really?
Wow, this is definitely hot take since every time Russia was about to say that they will support Serbia they would be given a container of expired chicken legs for their starving ''loyal'' masses and a pat on the back after which they would fold like lawn chairs and fall back in line
They got screwed by HATO just like you did... they were expecting to be a part of the peace keeping force.... what were you expecting them to do... bomb Brussels? They were hardly in a great position themselves.
Bulgaria
They were cock blocked by the the military might of the superpower of Bulgaria
It think they simply don't give a fuck really
Of course... A Russian invasion of Bulgaria would have solved everything.... it is what the US would have done.... I mean in 2008 the US sent 10 carrier groups into the Black Sea and marched shoulder to shoulder with Suck Arse Milli Vanilis troops which had bravely served with them in Afghanistan or Iraq or somewhere and now they returned the favour because Georgia is their best buddy and they have ties going back weeks and weeks with these people.
HATO essentially broke international law, but what exactly were you expecting Russia to do about it?
You have forgiven them so fast I guess I could give it a week and you will be best friends again with Russia too perhaps?
Ironic that you have long memories, but damaged understandings of the real world... the west wanted to kill you and break up your country and still hate you... this was just a stunt to get Trump re-elected... they still think you tried to wipe out the Albanians in an attempt at genocide because that is what CNN and the BBC tells them. Russia tried to help and clearly couldn't do what you wanted them to be able to do. They still think you got screwed by HATO, which I think we can all agree that you did... it is not Russia demanding you recognise Kosovo and not being part of Serbia... that is your new best buddies... the ones that can no longer do any wrong it seems...
And let's not forget Arabs, Iranians and Palestinians who did their part here (and got the ball rolling back in the late 80s)
Of course those Arabs built arcs and sailed to Europe and invaded and destroyed Yugoslavia... HATO countries had nothing at all to do with it.... how could they stop those Arabs because you know when it comes to Arabs Germany and France just can't say no to them... America too.... if the US has a fault it is their ingrained hatred for Jews and love of the Palestinians and Iranians.... it must be Putins fault I guess.
Who do you thing was dropping cash in US congress, buying Soviet weapons and sending jihadists to the Balkans?
NATO are assholes but they ain't the only ones in this fun house
HATO was powerless to stop it.... they tried their best to save all the people of Yugoslavia from these foreign arab terrorists but they were too strong...
Except in the real world the HATO terrorists did everything to blame everything for all the problems in the region on Serbia and their invasion and interference and bombing was not about Arab terrorists or the KLA or anything like that... they targeted the Serbs, and now you are saying it was the fault of Russia and Iran.... do you watch CNN much?
If Belarus and the Ukraine are anything to go by it will be about 4 minutes and 27 seconds (give or take)
Hahahaha... at Maiden they shot people on both sides and made sure the cameras got good views... they got people on social media put on western media and then walked them out and pointed cameras at them while they got paid snipers from the Georgian army to shoot them in cold blood... they also shot some policemen to get them fired up and keen to bash heads... in Venezuela the plan was to break into army stores and get small arms of all types and then break into a prison and arm the inmates to support the revolution... these are the people you want to be friends with...
And since we never took a shit on Russia despite never getting free money from Russia (unlike everybody else) we still score way higher on that precious ''loyalty'' test
Of course, and you can improve your standing by getting lots of Russian speakers and baracade them in a building and then burn it down... shooting anyone who tries to leave.... get video of it they will love watching that over and over... the charred blacked corpses in the stairwells where the suffocated and eventually burned.... they might give you some cookies... and if the building is concrete it might still be solid enough to keep your quote of migrants... maybe burn it down a few times eh?
Russia doesn't have military bases in the region (Kosovo especially), they got no major political or financial investments or interests here and they haven't been making anything of this agreement themselves
No point without any chance of access... you are too isolated to get the care you so desperately seem to need.
In that document USA could have handed over control of entire Balkan peninsula to Belgrade but local fanboys would still be throwing shit fits over it and screaming about ''betrayal of Russia'' because their main priority which are the Palestinians were getting some more of their comeuppance
It has nothing to do with Israel or the Palestinians... Israel is going to do what it does whether it has Serbian approval or not, this is just an election gimmick to try to get support for Yahoo and Trump... the fact that you are dealing with the devil is something you don't even notice as being a problem is the problem...
So please, spare me the fake outrage, nobody cares about ''poor little'' Abdul in Gaza Strip
Serbia is in bed with HATO and the US. That is all that this is about. Russia really can't afford to sell you fighters and air defence systems and other shit if you sleep with those
...As Luke Skywalkers mum said to his dad... you are heading down a path that I can't follow... sorry to see you go but you are an adult and you make your own choices...
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PapaDragon- Posts : 13463
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GarryB wrote: They got screwed by HATO just like you did... they were expecting to be a part of the peace keeping force.... what were you expecting them to do... bomb Brussels? They were hardly in a great position themselves.
Serbia: size of Kaliningrad, population of Moscow suburb and an army the size of St. Petersburg traffic police
Russia: 1/6 of Earth's landmass, 130 million people and second largest military in existence at the time
It's safe to say that Serbia getting screwed is not exactly the same as Russia letting themselves get screwed (several times in a row on a same trick)
GarryB wrote: Of course... A Russian invasion of Bulgaria would have solved everything....
No Garry, not Russian invasion of Bulgaria
Not everything requires an invasion (thinking that it does is one of major problems with people on this forum)
GarryB wrote:HATO essentially broke international law, but what exactly were you expecting Russia to do about it?
Start breaking some international law in return
GarryB wrote:You have forgiven them so fast I guess I could give it a week and you will be best friends again with Russia too perhaps?
We never forgiven them anything
And we never stopped being friends with Russia, only people who think we did are local Jihadi fanboys (and one airhead bimbo in Moscow)
Again, I am still getting no explanation from any of you as to how exactly does this affect Russia
I know how it affects Arabs and Palestinians but I couldn't give fewer fuck about that and neither could anyone else on our end
GarryB wrote:... these are the people you want to be friends with...
No, these are the people we need to do business with in part because they are the only game in town (and EU are far worse than USA at the moment at least for us)
Competition is nowhere in sight
GarryB wrote:....Of course, and you can improve your standing by getting lots of Russian speakers and baracade them in a building and then burn it down... shooting anyone who tries to leave.... get video of it they will love watching that over and over... the charred blacked corpses in the stairwells where the suffocated and eventually burned.... they might give you some cookies... and if the building is concrete it might still be solid enough to keep your quote of migrants... maybe burn it down a few times eh?
If the Ukraine is any indication it would probably result in Russia finally finishing that gas pipeline, giving us dirt cheap oil and gas and loads of free money for decades to come
Unfortunately for us we ain't exactly big fans of that approach to diplomacy (I blame our upbringing and mentality) so we have to actually work for a living
GarryB wrote:....It has nothing to do with Israel or the Palestinians... Israel is going to do what it does whether it has Serbian approval or not, this is just an election gimmick to try to get support for Yahoo and Trump... the fact that you are dealing with the devil is something you don't even notice as being a problem is the problem...
Everyone is waiting in line for a chance to deal with that Devil, Russia and China first and foremost (Chincoms ain't even pretending to be dignified about it)
And nobody here cares if they elect Beelzebub or Cthulhu if they want to, what matters is what we get out of it
GarryB wrote:....Serbia is in bed with HATO and the US. That is all that this is about....
We are solo as always (and finally learned to accept that fact and roll with it for the first time in history, fuck yeah finally)
GarryB wrote:....Russia really can't afford to sell you fighters and air defence systems and other shit if you sleep with those...
The moment we flash the cash Russia will be asking where we want them delivered (yes, unlike other Russian allies we actually pay for our shit, those helicopters and Pantsirs came without gift-wrapping)
GarryB wrote:....As Luke Skywalkers mum said to his dad... you are heading down a path that I can't follow... sorry to see you go but you are an adult and you make your own choices...
Seriously? Of all Star Wars movies you opted to quote that one?
You should have at least quoted the best one, you missed perfect opportunity to post this piece of perfection:
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flamming_python- Posts : 9516
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Um, yeah
Anyway, the EU is demanding Serbia slap sanctions on Belarus. The obvious implication is that they'll ask Serbia to join the sanctions regime on Russia next. Maybe starting with the new Navalny bill
So, I guess we'll soon see if PD's theory about Serbia hedging it's bets with Trump against the EU and US globalists is true or not then.
Anyway, the EU is demanding Serbia slap sanctions on Belarus. The obvious implication is that they'll ask Serbia to join the sanctions regime on Russia next. Maybe starting with the new Navalny bill
So, I guess we'll soon see if PD's theory about Serbia hedging it's bets with Trump against the EU and US globalists is true or not then.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13463
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flamming_python wrote:Anyway, the EU is demanding Serbia slap sanctions on Belarus. The obvious implication is that they'll ask Serbia to join the sanctions regime on Russia next
They have been demanding the same for Russia since 2014, they didn't get it at the peak of sanctions fervor and they ain't getting it now (or ever)
As for Belarus they are in the clear for decent amount time from our end if they just don't screw up too hard but considering Luka's tendency to act more retarded than Rogozin himself it would be best and safest option for Russia to cauterize that particular thing before it needlessly escalates
flamming_python wrote:Maybe starting with the new Navalny bill
Unlike Russia not a single person here would take that clown seriously
flamming_python wrote:So, I guess we'll soon see if PD's theory about Serbia hedging it's bets with Trump against the EU and US globalists is true or not then.
It's not theory and it's not hedging bets, it's about taking what you can now before elections in USA
Preferably this would have been done at more leisurely pace but we don't exactly have guarantees that Trump will stay in charge so you gotta roll now with what you got
And Trump is globalists, how can anyone think otherwise? Globalism = money for USA
It's just that USA happens to be offering stuff now while EU will never offer anything ever because like I said the Jihad they waged in Kosovo is the foundation upon which EU is built upon
And for the record support for joining EU here is nowhere near solid an varies greatly depending on caveats and polls
Only real advantage anyone sees in EU here is money and nothing more, offer that Russia could easily match and exceed but they simply aren't doing
But it looks like Trump's current USA just did (sucks for current EU but fuck them) so better grab it before autumn
No hard feelings
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GarryB- Posts : 40489
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Serbia: size of Kaliningrad, population of Moscow suburb and an army the size of St. Petersburg traffic police
Russia: 1/6 of Earth's landmass, 130 million people and second largest military in existence at the time
All true.
Outline what you think Russia should have done to save you and Kosovo.
Just lay it out step by step what they should have done to make the US and the EU to stop doing things it clearly had an interest in doing.
A UNSC resolution outlined that Kosovo was part of Serbia.... what was it... resolution 1244 or something... China abstained and Russia said yes because you had already agreed to it didn't you?
It's safe to say that Serbia getting screwed is not exactly the same as Russia letting themselves get screwed (several times in a row on a same trick)
Of course, Serbia was the villain then and now the victim... how many Oscars I wonder.
No Garry, not Russian invasion of Bulgaria
Not everything requires an invasion (thinking that it does is one of major problems with people on this forum)
Wow that kool aide kicks in really fast... so sanctions then?
Or perhaps just a stern letter of complaint?
Start breaking some international law in return
If they start acting like the west does that makes them no better. The west are clearly the bad guys because they break the rules they create themselves. Lowering themselves to the level of the west and why should we care who wins... Russia will just be more of the same.
Again, I am still getting no explanation from any of you as to how exactly does this affect Russia
It doesn't. I am not Russia. The other people here criticising your leader are not Russia either.
I know how it affects Arabs and Palestinians but I couldn't give fewer fuck about that and neither could anyone else on our end
Yeah, the more chaos there, the more new migrants the EU will be getting over the next few years... why should you care... interference in the Middle East can never hurt Europe right?
No, these are the people we need to do business with in part because they are the only game in town (and EU are far worse than USA at the moment at least for us)
Competition is nowhere in sight
You are clearly lost... you say you don't care about the Palestinians and arabs and I believe that... why should you... the question is... why do you think anything you can do for the US will ever make you their best interests in Europe... they are never going to think more of you than you think of the other vassals they screwed over this week. Should you be sucking up to the EU or US... well it is up to you but one of them has you land locked and will resent you sucking up to the other more than them... it is going to be very tricky... just as well you are prepared to be practical about it...
If the Ukraine is any indication it would probably result in Russia finally finishing that gas pipeline, giving us dirt cheap oil and gas and loads of free money for decades to come
Yeah... what bastards.... imagine being nice to your neighbours... or worse actually making an effort to be nice to your neighbours and having them turn out to be ungrateful ass holes like Ukraine and Georgia...
Unfortunately for us we ain't exactly big fans of that approach to diplomacy (I blame our upbringing and mentality) so we have to actually work for a living
...no risk of that with the EU as neighbours and the US as an ally...
Everyone is waiting in line for a chance to deal with that Devil, Russia and China first and foremost (Chincoms ain't even pretending to be dignified about it)
And nobody here cares if they elect Beelzebub or Cthulhu if they want to, what matters is what we get out of it
Everyone does it so it is OK when we do it... who are you trying to convince.... me, or yourself?
BTW if China and Russia and Iran and North Korea and Venezuela and Cuba did they wouldn't be under US sanctions... and the butt of western media propaganda...
We are solo as always (and finally learned to accept that fact and roll with it for the first time in history, fuck yeah finally)
So sucking up to the US is your way of showing independence?
The moment we flash the cash Russia will be asking where we want them delivered (yes, unlike other Russian allies we actually pay for our shit, those helicopters and Pantsirs came without gift-wrapping)
I am sure they have you on speed dial now...
Seriously? Of all Star Wars movies you opted to quote that one?
The shoe that fits...
Unlike Russia not a single person here would take that clown seriously
It is the west that thinks he is the leader of the opposition in Russia...
It's not theory and it's not hedging bets, it's about taking what you can now before elections in USA
And what sort of cookie did you get? ...when he is not president any more will he come visit? Are you going to get a Trump Tower or will you just be pleased to see him and that is a marker pen in your pocket?
Only real advantage anyone sees in EU here is money and nothing more, offer that Russia could easily match and exceed but they simply aren't doing
But it looks like Trump's current USA just did (sucks for current EU but fuck them) so better grab it before autumn
No hard feelings
You have to put a notice in the paper a week before an auction... any prize you win from Trump might turn out to not be valid after the next election... maybe Serbia could use its hard earned money to hire Russian hackers to swing another term for the orange one?
That would really piss the EU off... might even get a civil war going in the US... in a funny way you would be returning the favour... perhaps the Yellow Jackets in France could start something too... go for a royal flush.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13463
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GarryB wrote:Outline what you think Russia should have done to save you and Kosovo.
Not taking it up the ass like a maggot composed out of string of rectums would have been a solid basis for later moves
But in this particular case they could have just said ''no''
Afterwards some honesty about who and what they are would have improved their image post fact at least
GarryB wrote:If they start acting like the west does that makes them no better
Oh wait, this was betterment competition?
My bad, all this time I thought this was geopolitics. silly me
GarryB wrote:The west are clearly the bad guys
And? What about it?
Nobody gives a crap
I don't seem to recall good guys getting results
GarryB wrote:Lowering themselves to the level of the west and why should we care who wins... Russia will just be more of the same
They already are the same and always have been
Others just do it a lot better
GarryB wrote:You are clearly lost... you say you don't care about the Palestinians and arabs and I believe that... why should you... the question is... why do you think anything you can do for the US will ever make you their best interests in Europe... they are never going to think more of you than you think of the other vassals they screwed over this week
We know they don't care
And we don't care about them
Nobody gives a shit
It's what we can get out of it that matters
Lessons of the 90's
GarryB wrote:Yeah, the more chaos there, the more new migrants the EU will be getting over the next few years... why should you care... interference in the Middle East can never hurt Europe right?
Precisely!!!
The more chaos spreads over there the more those who fucked us over get to go to shit, a perfect storm
Sand Niggers (I do love this new name, thanks for coming up with it) go down the shitter first and they move to EU who goes down the shitter later as a result (Russia profits too, pro-bono hahaha)
Win - win for us, all the upsides with none of the downsides
What, did you think that we like EU here or something? They got money, only reason we give a crap
They fucking went to war against us
As for Sand Niggers they can always pop in a VHS copy of Disney's Aladdin and reminisce about the good old days when they were the good guys and those nasty Serbs were getting the big budget Jihad
GarryB wrote:So sucking up to the US is your way of showing independence?
Fucking over Palestinians is not sucking up, it's just easy ''money'' (hell, I would have done it for free long ago myself)
Palestinians, Iranians and most Arabs are lucky that their involvement in the wars here isn't as well known as it should be otherwise they would be getting very different treatment
But it will be if they throw too many shit fits
GarryB wrote:It doesn't. I am not Russia. The other people here criticising your leader are not Russia either.
And this is why none of these ''complaints'' y'all have matter
Relevant parties have no complaints, that's what matters
The rest is all just irrelevant background noise
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GarryB- Posts : 40489
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Not taking it up the ass like a maggot composed out of string of rectums would have been a solid basis for later moves
Maggots don't take it up the arse... social climbers do.
I am sure Serbia will become a utopia of peace and love and lots of money and wealth because that is what the West provides to all its allies... except these days it doesn't even apply to their own citizens... what scraps do you think will be left for you?
Great work ethic... provide a service and get paid.... but as any Hooker will tell you... make sure you get paid up front... the west is well known for not paying their bills...
But in this particular case they could have just said ''no''
Which would have stopped HATO in its tracks because they always do what Russia tells them to do... oops, no, that is the EU always does what Washington tells them... Russia is bad because they don't. Serbia is bad because it is friends with Russia.
Even if you lose that... most of your neighbours will be higher on the pecking order... they only forget when you become really useful and you could really only become really useful by being their bitch in Europe... more so that Poland is....
Afterwards some honesty about who and what they are would have improved their image post fact at least
A friendly country too far away to help... were you expecting them to fly in with troop ships full of Jedi to scare away the HATO terrorists and the Albanian Terrorists?
You are getting the timeline wrong.... the Stormtroopers were already shooting the jedi by that part of the series... Palpatine (Yeltsin) was a bitch to the Clintons... Putin knew right from wrong but did not have the power to take on the entire empire on his own... he needed to take time to grow and rebuild...
Oh wait, this was betterment competition?
No. But morality is important going forward... it is harder to dress your own wounds when they are in your back.
The funny thing is that it was HATO with the knife in the back and Russia trying to help but once it is in what could they do?
My bad, all this time I thought this was geopolitics. silly me
Of course... call it geopolitics and you can do any shit you like to anyone and it is OK... they do it too.
And? What about it?
Nobody gives a crap
I don't seem to recall good guys getting results
So why are you not a member of an Albanian gang... who gives a crap about the bad things they do... they are getting results... they got the west to give them part of Serbia for goodness sake... and you probably know better all the shit they had to do to get that...
But you can't argue with their results.
They already are the same and always have been
Others just do it a lot better
Clearly we disagree. The west works for their financiers... the 1%, Putin seems to be working in the interests of all Russians.
We know they don't care
And we don't care about them
Nobody gives a shit
It's what we can get out of it that matters
Lessons of the 90's
Sad that you are a teacher.
How do you explain the work hard ethic together with the forget morality and just take the easy options... it just seems like a contradiction to me.
The more chaos spreads over there the more those who fucked us over get to go to shit, a perfect storm
The 1% who funded you getting screwed over are not suffering... more wars in the Middle East means more ammo and more weapons production... they are making lots of money over chaos, and they don't live in the EU... they are getting more money than they know what to do with, if shit gets bad in EU or US they can easily move... what country wont take a billionaire?
It is people like you and me that will suffer from any conflict or problems... people in America and the EU because those rich 1% made a little bit more money than they were already making by closing their factory in the west and moving them to China or India or Bangledesh. Bring lots of poor uneducated migrants into places where there are no jobs for the locals will only create conflict... and more weapon and ammo sales... tougher laws... police forces buying military gear... and training to use it the military way... increased security and people tracking because the rich are paranoid...
Sand Niggers (I do love this new name, thanks for coming up with it) go down the shitter first and they move to EU who goes down the shitter later as a result (Russia profits too, pro-bono hahaha)
Migrants have been moving around the world for centuries... mostly white people moving away from white countries where they couldn't progress and become a land owner or improve their position... now the people of the world are looking at the nice streets and infrastructure in the west and realise a great way to get a huge jump in living standards is to move to a country that has a functioning healthcare and education system and something they had never heard of before... a welfare system.
What it will do first is destroy the welfare systems because after you say no, foreigners can't abuse it... you start to wonder what sort of other local people are abusing it too... Of course take away the safety net and like you say... you start doing what you have to to get on in the world, so you get drugs and prostitution... the two easiest ways to earn money anywhere... or just intimidation and theft... obviously the most vulnerable suffer there... the little old ladies and retired couples would be easy targets, children too....
Win - win for us, all the upsides with none of the downsides
Very western and almost American of you.... you only feel good when everyone around you suffers.
What, did you think that we like EU here or something? They got money, only reason we give a crap
I am not sure your leader has confided in you with his plans if he has any... I suspect this is you trying to rationalise it for yourself to understand what the plan might be...
They fucking went to war against us
They did, and you should not forget and you should not forgive... I understand why they want to forget... they didn't earn money by not doing business and with all due respect, if they are doing business with you it is because they are making a profit and it benefits them to do so... in your shoes I am not sure what I would be doing, but certainly not sucking up to Trump or Israel.
But obviously it is nothing to do with me.
As for Sand Niggers they can always pop in a VHS copy of Disney's Aladdin and reminisce about the good old days when they were the good guys and those nasty Serbs were getting the big budget Jihad
But that is the thing... they can just tag along at a Black Lives Matter march and have some fun setting fire to stuff and smashing windows and telling white people to kneel and say they are sorry for the colour of their skin and what bastards their ancestors were to their ancestors.
And this is why none of these ''complaints'' y'all have matter
You have spent a lot of time responding to peoples opinions that don't matter...
Relevant parties have no complaints, that's what matters
The rest is all just irrelevant background noise
As Nazi troops spread during the late 30s and early 1940s of last centuries the countries they occupied had little choice to change and adapt to the new music being played... militarily and socially most had no choice really.
Russia would have been the same had Hitler been clever but he was dumb and managed to treat the Russians worse than Stalin had treated them... they had little choice but to keep fighting no matter how far behind the front lines they ended up... they had no idea who would win in the end but the Germans didn't give them much in the way of choice because they wanted the land but didn't need that many servants so the excess were expendable.
For many of the occupied countries life became almost normal so there was no need to fight... many French saw German occupation as a normal continuation of war in Europe... later on they would occupy Germany...
It was more personal against the Russians and I suspect it will be the same with the Serbs because you are the bad guys...
PapaDragon- Posts : 13463
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Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
GarryB wrote:Maggots don't take it up the arse... social climbers do.
They definitely tried climbing
They just kept falling ass first on partners' dicks
GarryB wrote:most of your neighbours will be higher on the pecking order...
All of our neighbors, not just most
That's why we are going solo
GarryB wrote:more so that Poland is....
Poland is practically running Europe (EU) these days if you haven't noticed
Brussels may whine but finances, security, foreign policy it all happens how Poland says
They may be nothing more than flunkies but they still outrank rest of EU
GarryB wrote:A friendly country too far away to help...
More like hypocritical spineless losers trying (and failing) to live off the (minuscule) old glory
GarryB wrote:No. But morality is important going forward...
No it's not
It's completely irrelevant
GarryB wrote:it is harder to dress your own wounds when they are in your back.
Tell me about it, we had to learn that the hard way
GarryB wrote:The funny thing is that it was HATO with the knife in the back and Russia trying to help but once it is in what could they do?
Not familiar with modern history are we?
NATO was coming at us straight on, it was Russia that was sitting behind us
GarryB wrote:So why are you not a member of an Albanian gang...
Because I know what team I play for
Concept college commies aren't' familiar with
GarryB wrote:The west works for their financiers... the 1%, Putin seems to be working in the interests of all Russians.
If so good for Putin and Russians, no complaints here (not that anyone outside Russia has any right to complain one way or the other)
As for 1% claim (faulty one but let's play along for discussion purposes) that doesn't absolve other 99% of responsibility
They had jolly good time watching the party on TV and kept voting for that 1%
Time to pick up the tab
GarryB wrote:Sad that you are a teacher.
How do you explain the work hard ethic together with the forget morality and just take the easy options... it just seems like a contradiction to me.
Here's how it works: you get lesson list from ministry of education and you deliver those lessons in class without dumping your personal opinions in it (something that commies can't seem to be able to do) for which you get monetary compensation
There, work ethics
GarryB wrote:The 1% who funded you getting screwed over are not suffering... more wars in the Middle East means more ammo and more weapons production... they are making lots of money over chaos, and they don't live in the EU... they are getting more money than they know what to do with, if shit gets bad in EU or US they can easily move... what country wont take a billionaire?
It is people like you and me that will suffer from any conflict or problems... people in America and the EU because those rich 1% made a little bit more money than they were already making by closing their factory in the west and moving them to China or India or Bangledesh. [/quote]
Cry me a river
99% should have gotten off their asses at some point
They didn't
No such thing as free entertainment
GarryB wrote:...What it will do first is destroy the welfare systems because after you say no, foreigners can't abuse it... you start to wonder what sort of other local people are abusing it too... Of course take away the safety net and like you say... you start doing what you have to to get on in the world, so you get drugs and prostitution... the two easiest ways to earn money anywhere... or just intimidation and theft... obviously the most vulnerable suffer there... the little old ladies and retired couples would be easy targets, children too....
But on the upside Disney's Aladdin was an awesome cartoon, totally worth it in retrospect
GarryB wrote:Very western and almost American of you.... you only feel good when everyone around you suffers.
Not everyone, just ones that fucked us over
As for others: Hang in there, Whites! - Dave Chappelle, 2019
GarryB wrote:But that is the thing... they can just tag along at a Black Lives Matter march and have some fun setting fire to stuff and smashing windows and telling white people to kneel and say they are sorry for the colour of their skin and what bastards their ancestors were to their ancestors.
And I'll be in front of my TV with a bag of popcorn enjoying every second of it just like they did in the good old days
GarryB wrote:You have spent a lot of time responding to peoples opinions that don't matter...
Responding is pretty quick, it's formatting the text properly that's a hassle but I still do it because I care
I wouldn't want to remind anyone of Vann7 and his paragraph-less text walls
We must observe the decencies
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GarryB- Posts : 40489
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More like hypocritical spineless losers trying (and failing) to live off the (minuscule) old glory
I realise English is probably your second language, but the terms hypocritical and spineless would apply to Russia only if they were doing what your leader seems to be doing now.
But to listen to you you sound like you support that...
No it's not
It's completely irrelevant
Morality was what used to make you different from those that bombed you. They called the attacks on Serbia a moral conflict, which is like a communist country calling itself democratic...
Not familiar with modern history are we?
NATO was coming at us straight on, it was Russia that was sitting behind us
From your perspective a stab in the back... hardly a stab... more like they knocked you out of a war you could not win before HATO did irrepairable harm to you... and you ended up with a regime change frontal lobotomy like Afghanistan or Iraq got.
But keep believing they changed sides and helped HATO because they are their real friends, but then if that is true why are you rejecting the Russians and giving cuddles to Trump and Merkel et al.
As for 1% claim (faulty one but let's play along for discussion purposes) that doesn't absolve other 99% of responsibility
The 1% will think that is the best way to think about it because when the shit hits the fan and they do a runner it will be the 99% left to pay the bill...
They had jolly good time watching the party on TV and kept voting for that 1%
Time to pick up the tab
I agree it is their own stupid fault for pretending what they have even approaches democracy, but the fact of the matter is that when there are only two parties the 1% can easily afford to fund both sides so it doesn't matter who wins they always have their man in the hot seat.
Cry me a river
99% should have gotten off their asses at some point
They didn't
No such thing as free entertainment
Of course, which is why I don't like war. There are no good wars. There are necessary wars but these days most are unnecessary and all are wasteful.
Even a minor war you will see things you never can get out of your head, I remember growing up wanting granddad and uncles to talk about the war but they never did and I didn't understand because war on TV and in the movies seemed exciting.... an adventure. Adventures where people get blown to bits is not a fun adventure, when the next person to die could just as easily be you it is fear and then relief and then guilt that you made it and so many mates did not...
I have read about war most of my adult life but I am under no illusions, it is brutal and never fair or even reasonable.
The fact that you don't care... well thanks... now I can hate HATO and the US less because obviously it wasn't that bad... I am not going to hate Russia because they got you to stop before it got worse for you.
Some people think if they could only have given you S-300s you could have won... you were never going to win even if you had F-22s.... they just would have used different and much more brutal methods their media would not mention so no one would care, but you would notice the extra deaths and suffering.
But on the upside Disney's Aladdin was an awesome cartoon, totally worth it in retrospect
Never seen it.
I wouldn't want to remind anyone of Vann7 and his paragraph-less text walls
More reminding me of Aristide actually... wars are fine as long as they happen to other people who I have bunched into the category of having hurt me in the past... and of course it is Russias fault...
I have said all I want to say on the matter...
littlerabbit- Posts : 235
Points : 235
Join date : 2017-07-03
Location : Serbia
Israel definitely recognized so called Kosovo as independent state, according to Israel ambassador in Serbia, Yahel Vilan. 
So, this is 5:0 win for Serbia again, right?
http://rs.n1info.com/English/NEWS/a642039/Israeli-envoy-to-Serbia-We-recognised-Kosovo-on-September-4-it-s-not-issue-anymore.html
There is also a version in Serbian, with video:
http://rs.n1info.com/Vesti/a642005/Ambasador-Izraela-Izrael-je-priznao-Kosovo-4.-septembra-to-vise-nije-pitanje.html
Win-win situation, really...
So, this is 5:0 win for Serbia again, right?
http://rs.n1info.com/English/NEWS/a642039/Israeli-envoy-to-Serbia-We-recognised-Kosovo-on-September-4-it-s-not-issue-anymore.html
There is also a version in Serbian, with video:
http://rs.n1info.com/Vesti/a642005/Ambasador-Izraela-Izrael-je-priznao-Kosovo-4.-septembra-to-vise-nije-pitanje.html
Win-win situation, really...
Odin of Ossetia- Posts : 943
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Join date : 2015-07-03
To see how spineless Russia is and was, they even abandoned the ethnic Russians in Chechnya during 1996-1999.
That poster "Papa Dragon" has made some excellent points:
http://www.vojska.net/eng/armed-forces/bosnia-and-herzegovina/army/foreign/
Not only is the fact that there were plenty of foreign Muslim volunteers fighting in the war in Bosnia-Hercegovina (and later in Kosovo-Metohija) often now forgotten, but that there were more than a few of the non-Muslim Western volunteers also fighting on behalf of the Bosnian Muslim regime, even from countries like Denmark, U.K., Spain, and others.
Yes, Western non-Muslims were fighting on the side of the Muslims against the Serbs and Yugoslavia.
9-11 and 3-11 in Spain did them well. Got to taste some of their own medicine.
slasher- Posts : 196
Points : 194
Join date : 2015-09-28
Been doing a bit of research on the background behind the partition Serbia and Kosovo. Am curious about claims as posted here asserting Russia's "betrayal" of Serbia in the unfolding of events. Granted I haven't personally lived through them, but there's nothing I've read to leave me with anything close to such a damning impression. To basically cast so much blame and spew so much bile at Russia, who by all accounts (and within the context of their having to deal with their own massive internal convulsions) steadfastly defended Serbia's interests on the international political and diplomatic fronts, has me wondering what other forum members more personally attached may be thinking. Perhaps the real question is what might have been the fate of Serbia itself had it not been for the weight of it's big ally Russia as a major international actor, even as diminished as it was at the time. Seriously, is there anything that Russia doesn't get blamed or thrown under the bus for anymore?
GarryB- Posts : 40489
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Russia can't afford to carry Serbia and offer the investment and attention she clearly needs to accept Russia as a friend... they are just too remote.... too far buried in hostile territory.
If Serbia feels it needs to suck up to Trump or the EU to get by then I don't blame them for that, but blaming Russia for not coming in and saving them from HATO and the US...
It seems the fact that they didn't risk WWIII and nuclear holocaust that they are not Serbias friend any more.
Well sorry you feel that way... it is a bit like the Ukraine or Poland... they are clearly wanting to jump ship and are cutting ties and turning away.
If PD really believes what he is saying then he will understand Russia has its own problems and has been essentially fighting the west since the west broke Yugoslavia apart... honestly if Russia really was guilty of stabbing Serbia in the back they could have done it then and kept good relations with the west and right now there would not have been problems in Georgia or the Ukraine and the rise of China would have the Americans sucking up to Russia to try to get support to try to deal with a rising China... and if Russia had dumped Serbia like you said why would they not do the same to China?
Of course they haven't... they don't give up till you do... like georgia and ukraine did... they even kept sending products through Baltic ports to feed their economies until they were kicked out... and Ukraine and georgia blocked Russia... not the other way around.
If Serbia feels it needs to suck up to Trump or the EU to get by then I don't blame them for that, but blaming Russia for not coming in and saving them from HATO and the US...
It seems the fact that they didn't risk WWIII and nuclear holocaust that they are not Serbias friend any more.
Well sorry you feel that way... it is a bit like the Ukraine or Poland... they are clearly wanting to jump ship and are cutting ties and turning away.
If PD really believes what he is saying then he will understand Russia has its own problems and has been essentially fighting the west since the west broke Yugoslavia apart... honestly if Russia really was guilty of stabbing Serbia in the back they could have done it then and kept good relations with the west and right now there would not have been problems in Georgia or the Ukraine and the rise of China would have the Americans sucking up to Russia to try to get support to try to deal with a rising China... and if Russia had dumped Serbia like you said why would they not do the same to China?
Of course they haven't... they don't give up till you do... like georgia and ukraine did... they even kept sending products through Baltic ports to feed their economies until they were kicked out... and Ukraine and georgia blocked Russia... not the other way around.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13463
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Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
GarryB wrote:I realise English is probably your second language, but the terms hypocritical and spineless would apply to Russia only if they were doing what your leader seems to be doing now.
Our ''leader'' could be spawn of Satan himself but it would still have no effect on Russia discussion nor be excuse for someone else's BS
This is same nonsense when locals here try to excuse failures of Roscosmos by pulling something SpaceX did, it's still no excuse for Roskosmos no matter what happens to SpaceX
GarryB wrote:Morality was what used to make you different from those that bombed you
And it cost us 30% of population in WW1 alone
And we still have more morality (a useless resource) than anyone else, hopeful we will learn to ditch that hogwash at some point
GarryB wrote:From your perspective a stab in the back... hardly a stab... more like they knocked you out of a war you could not win before HATO did irrepairable harm to you...
Wow, so they were actually helping us by fucking us? This one is peak apologism and Russia fanboyism, you are giving some of our local clowns run for their money with this statement
Have you tried a career as a psychologist?
GarryB wrote:The 1% will think that is the best way to think about it because when
I already said that I have no interest in whatever excuses people there have for their failings
Your bed, your problem, sleep in it now
GarryB wrote:Of course, which is why I don't like war. There are no good wars.
And this is why Whites can't really complain when someone tells them to kneel, can they?
Odin of Ossetia wrote:Not only is the fact that there were plenty of foreign Muslim volunteers fighting in the war in Bosnia-Hercegovina (and later in Kosovo-Metohija) often now forgotten, but that there were more than a few of the non-Muslim Western volunteers also fighting on behalf of the Bosnian Muslim regime, even from countries like Denmark, U.K., Spain, and others.
Yes, Western non-Muslims were fighting on the side of the Muslims against the Serbs and Yugoslavia.
9-11 and 3-11 in Spain did them well. Got to taste some of their own medicine.
It's not just that but also insane amounts of money which were pumped by Arabs and Iranians into lobbying in USA and EU against us for several decades
This mountain of money is the reason why EU and USA are so unwavering and inflexible in approach to Serbia (USA has tiny minuscule fluke of flexibility now but that's exception not the rule)
This all started in late 70's and we are now supposed to ignore Arabs and strictly blame USA?
It's like asking someone to solely blame contract killer and ignore the person who hired him and gave him orders
Contractor is a sideshow, I want one who paid him
slasher wrote:Been doing a bit of research on the background behind the partition Serbia and Kosovo. Am curious about claims as posted here asserting Russia's "betrayal" of Serbia in the unfolding of events. Granted I haven't personally lived through them....
You didn't live through them and you have no clue what you are talking about as a result
Same goes for everyone else here
As the situation deteriorated over the course of the 90s Russians kept saying how they got our backs, how they will support us no matter what and how all we need to do is ask and they will be on the job
And then when we did need help they threw immediately sold us for a truckload of expired chicken legs
And here we are now
And even that was still not enough for us to tell Russians to fully fuck themselves but after that Russian word is worth less than nothing (at least USA said they will fuck us up and they did, no hypocrisy there)
Only actions and money up-front is accepted from Russians going forward
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slasher- Posts : 196
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GarryB wrote:Russia has its own problems and has been essentially fighting the west since the west broke Yugoslavia apart... honestly if Russia really was guilty of stabbing Serbia in the back they could have done it then and kept good relations with the west
Indeed. The break-up of Yugoslavia fuelled by the West has been widely cited as at the heart of Russia's humiliation and resultant disenchantment with the West. It has severely tainted Russia's view of its dealings with the West since, and deeply scarred its leadership's psyche. While Serbia certainly was the victim, Russia too was opportunistically taken advantage of and shamed to look on helplessly as the West flexed its power. Are people forgetting at that time the US was vaunted as the world's first 'hyper-power'? What did they want? That Russia should have resorted to its only remaining card left, its nuclear arsenal?... but then which of us would've been here today?
So this generation in their bitterness now turns against their Slavic brethren and common ally for the same Western aggressors that sought to destroy their state. I imagine there should be a name for that type of psychosis.
And to do this at the point in time where the one world order has been showing signs of cracking from within itself, and being confronted by the few brave states rising to the challenge.
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PapaDragon wrote:As the situation deteriorated over the course of the 90s Russians kept saying how they got our backs, how they will support us no matter what and how all we need to do is ask and they will be on the job
And then when we did need help they threw immediately sold us for a truckload of expired chicken legs
And here we are now
And even that was still not enough for us to tell Russians to fully fuck themselves but after that Russian word is worth less than nothing (at least USA said they will fuck us up and they did, no hypocrisy there)
The Soviet Union ceased to exist at the end of 1991. Either the Russians were kidding themselves, fantasizing about their lost legacy status, or they just plain lied to Serbia then. In either case Serbia would have deluded themselves into believing Russia was in any position to ride into town to save them without risking outright confrontation with the West, which they could not win.
So yes, Russia really did Serbia a favour by negotiating a path out of the mess (for which Serbia did itself no favours).
PapaDragon wrote:Only actions and money up-front is accepted... going forward
There's a word for that line of work. It seems your wish for Serbia ditching any morality it might have had has been granted. Serbia is now honing its skills in prostituting itself to the highest bidders.[/quote]
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slasher wrote: Either the Russians were kidding themselves, fantasizing about their lost legacy status, or they just plain lied to Serbia then.
Exactly
Honest thing to do would have been to just admit that they threw in the towel and tell us that we are on our own
Instead they used us to get some extra expired chicken legs (I hope they at least asked for a pack of KFC gravy as while they were at it, that shit is awesome)
slasher wrote:So yes, Russia really did Serbia a favour by negotiating a path out of the mess
That's the new word for it?
USA sure helped Russia get out of the mess they gotten themselves into back in the late 70s... and 80s... and 90s...
And Israelis are helping Palestinians get themselves out of the mess they gotten themselves into back in the 50s (Iranians will be getting help soon as well)
I do love this new approach, helping is good
slasher wrote:There's a word for that line of work. It seems your wish for Serbia ditching any morality it might have had has been granted. Serbia is now honing its skills in prostituting itself to the highest bidders.
If we ever chose to pursue that line of work we won't need to hone skills because Russia already wrote a textbook on it
But unlike Russia we will definitely get lot more than expired chicken legs out of it if it comes to that
slasher wrote:in time where the one world order has been showing signs of cracking from within itself, and being confronted by the few brave states rising to the challenge
Really?
Which ones?
slasher wrote:The break-up of Yugoslavia fuelled by the West has been widely cited as at the heart of Russia's humiliation and resultant disenchantment with the West. It has severely tainted Russia's view of its dealings with the West since, and deeply scarred its leadership's psyche
Oh yes, so much disenchantment and tainting and scarring
The horror, the horror
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GarryB- Posts : 40489
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This is same nonsense when locals here try to excuse failures of Roscosmos by pulling something SpaceX did, it's still no excuse for Roskosmos no matter what happens to SpaceX
Of course Russia is not allowed to make mistakes or be wrong, just like Roskosmos... they have to be perfect, but SpaceX can make outrageous claims and not back any of them up but that is fine... no wonder Russia is the villain and is stabbing countries in the back, while the countries who bombed you and treat you like shit... well business is business... you have to be practical and suck the dick of power at the moment.
Wow, so they were actually helping us by fucking us?
You were never going to win... the best you could get by sticking to your guns was economic and political isolation like North Korea or Cuba.
But of course you would be blaming Russia for that too I guess.
This one is peak apologism and Russia fanboyism, you are giving some of our local clowns run for their money with this statement
Have you tried a career as a psychologist?
Are you suggesting 20 batteries of S-300 would have saved you? Are we talking about the same HATO? Why would they back down to Serbia?
They would just change tactic... economic embargo and of course stand off weapons... they can afford to launch a dozen cruise missiles a day to hit all sorts of targets... in all likelyhood without your surrender they just would have lowered the criteria to get on the to bomb list, and power stations and bridges and food stores and anything else of value would have been bombed... and guess what... you still would not have won.
Your bed, your problem, sleep in it now
You think you are sleeping in your bed yet?
And this is why Whites can't really complain when someone tells them to kneel, can they?
Anyone can tell me to kneel.... just hope they are not offended when I tell them to fuck off.
It's not just that but also insane amounts of money which were pumped by Arabs and Iranians into lobbying in USA and EU against us for several decades
What a shock.... you were blaming the Iranians for everything before but now you say Arabs and the US and the EU as well as the Iranians... it is pretty well known the US and the EU and the Saudis like to put money into regime change... white helmets are not a new invention... but you manage to blame the Iranians first and foremost... because obviously they have the most money to spend on regime change... history proves it... so Iran and Russia didn't save you from the abuse and rape inflicted by the west so your response is to suck up to the west and blame Russia and Iran for all your problems.
And you think I need a head doctor...
This mountain of money is the reason why EU and USA are so unwavering and inflexible in approach to Serbia
So you are saying the west hates Serbia because they were paid to hate them by Iran. Does Iran actually have that much money? Would they ever give it to the EU or US just to punish Serbia?
Think you might have an inflated opinion of what Serbia means to the world to be honest.
They needed a bad guy to justify getting involved in the conflict in Yugoslavia, and Serbia fit the bill because it was not rabidly anti Russian... perhaps if you had been anti Russian 30 years ago you would be part of the EU and HATO and wondering why you have so many troops in Iraq and Afghanistan still.
This all started in late 70's and we are now supposed to ignore Arabs and strictly blame USA?
The Americans and Arabs are made of teflon because you have been blaming Iran and Russia...
It's like asking someone to solely blame contract killer and ignore the person who hired him and gave him orders
Contractor is a sideshow, I want one who paid him
Hahahahaha... The contract killer was HATO and the EU and US driving it... demanding it... the Arabs in the background paying for it is fucking unlikely... no amount of cash would have gotten the EU and HATO to start a war in Europe... they really don't need the cash... in this case the contract killer did the hit for their own reasons, while Russia was the friend down the street being held back by the Police cordon set up by HATO around your city block... but what member of the audience would blame Russia and Iran for this attack by HATO and the EU whether it was paid for by the Arabs or not... what sort of attack could Iran afford back then... they were under sanction and did not have a lot of money to waste getting Serbia whacked...
As the situation deteriorated over the course of the 90s Russians kept saying how they got our backs, how they will support us no matter what and how all we need to do is ask and they will be on the job
You mean like a friend would?
The Bastards....
Offering to help a friend if that friend gets into trouble... total bastards.
No wonder you hate them more than the people that bombed the shit out of you and demanded you hand over territory to a bunch of terrorists they supported...
I mean in comparison to that those Russians... who could possibly say anything nice about them.
And then when we did need help they threw immediately sold us for a truckload of expired chicken legs
What help were you expecting.... a couple of nuclear weapons?
What exactly would have helped you beat all of HATO and the EU... because I am sure the Russians want quite a bit of that themselves right now... that would come in handy... they could probably sell some to China and Iran and North Korea and Cuba and a lot of other countries around the place who want a defeat HATO and the EU and the US card...
And even that was still not enough for us to tell Russians to fully fuck themselves but after that Russian word is worth less than nothing (at least USA said they will fuck us up and they did, no hypocrisy there)
You are right, it was nothing to do with Serbia at all... it was those damn Russians that broke up Yugoslavia... and made HATO and the US attack Serbia and treat them like the bad guys...
Only actions and money up-front is accepted from Russians going forward
Serbian actions suggest they need to start by threatening to bomb you and then bomb you and then you will be their friend and the EU and US and HATO will be the bastards...
Indeed. The break-up of Yugoslavia fuelled by the West has been widely cited as at the heart of Russia's humiliation and resultant disenchantment with the West.
When the cold war supposedly ended the Americans said the Soviet Union didn't lose... democracy is not a disease or punishment that is inflicted on losers, but then local politics took over and the attitude changed... vote for me... we won the cold war...
The west made all sorts of promises to the Soviets... give up communism and we will welcome you into the international community, there will be a huge peace dividend, HATO wont expand... in fact the Soviets got the impression that when they brought their troops and equipment out of eastern europe that the American and British and French troops in Germany and western europe would be withdrawn back to their respective countries borders... instead they expanded HATO right to Russias doorstep and actively promoted regime change in Ukraine and now Belarus, yet still the Russians tried to cooperate... the CFE agreement... the only country that signed it and was actually abiding by it was Russia and it got lots of shit from the west because Russian peace keepers in South Ossetia and Nagorno Karabach were not covered by the CFE agreement and they also complained that Russia had too many forces in their southern region despite the ongoing conflicts in the Caucasus at the time... no other country had any restrictions on how troops could be deployed within their own borders except Russia and Ukraine. Nobody else had ratified it either so Russia decided that they would not recognise or respect the agreement till everyone else had signed it and also abided by the rules it set out.
It has severely tainted Russia's view of its dealings with the West since, and deeply scarred its leadership's psyche.
The west are a bunch of manipulative lying
. The less Russia has to do with them the better it will be for Russia.So this generation in their bitterness now turns against their Slavic brethren and common ally for the same Western aggressors that sought to destroy their state. I imagine there should be a name for that type of psychosis.
Stockholm syndrome.
Either the Russians were kidding themselves, fantasizing about their lost legacy status, or they just plain lied to Serbia then.
What did they promise? They blocked anything the west tried to push through the UNSC... what exactly were the Serbians expecting?
Honest thing to do would have been to just admit that they threw in the towel and tell us that we are on our own
Would like to know what you think they were promising... in the 1990s the Russians were clearly not the force they are today, but I am scratching my head today wondering what sort of help they could provide today that would have helped serbia defeat the EU and the US...
Oh yes, so much disenchantment and tainting and scarring
The horror, the horror
Are you forgetting what started this discussion? Serbian leader smiling with Trump and Yahoo signing an "I am your bitch" agreement in the hopes Trump will get re-elected...
I am sure Serbia will do well with the west, they will pour money into your economy for no reason at all and forget they thought you were guilty of genocide for killing some foreigners trying to annex part of your territory.
Good luck with that.
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GarryB wrote:Are you suggesting 20 batteries of S-300 would have saved you?
Were you even paying attention or is this all just an excuse to copy/paste pre-written stuff?
No, nobody was expecting 20 batteries of anything, we expected them to be upfront and honest
They couldn't afford 20 AAA batteries (as in Duracell) back then, they were whoring themselves for expired chicken legs for Christ's sake
Instead of empty promises they should have just said back in 1990 (or pretty much any later point): Our country is decomposing, our economy is dead, our population is starving, our military is trash, we are throwing in the towel and doing everything USA orders us to do. We can't do anything to help you and you are on your own. Deal with it.
There, that's all it took. But instead they did the opposite
There's your answer and it also covers rest of your excuse list for Russia
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