P.V.O. (Russian Air Defence) General Thread:

To be honest for years I was a bit bitter about Rust... what a dick...

But honestly I don't think Russian air defence would be what it is without the developments and steps that went ahead because small slow targets are hard to detect and track and engage.

Just from that video you could see that a helicopter like a Hind with soldiers in the cabin armed with heavy gauge shotguns or light automatic weapons could be viably used to deal with large numbers of drones or small numbers...

With airburst laser detonated shells they would be even more potent... the Mi-28NM has been described as being able to shoot down drones... presumably using its 30mm cannon and laser command detonated shells... most civilian drones can be optically detected and tracked by the Havocs built in EO system and its MMW radar for detecting ground targets should also be ideal for the larger drones at much greater ranges... the data sharing and communications systems that have been added to the aircraft to allow frontline troops to get access to the view from the helicopter in terms of radar and IIR sensors, and it just makes sense that ground target information can be sent to these helicopters too to help them find specific targets. NEBO and other ground based radars designed to detect drones could direct these helicopters to deal with these threats too...

Shield with control: the West of Russia will be covered by an automated system

It will include fighters, anti-aircraft missile systems and radar stations

Russia will be covered by a large anti-aircraft shield. Air defense systems and combat aviation in the Western military district will soon be combined under the management of a new unified automated control system (ACS). Integration will allow creating a defense of missiles and fighters in the space from St. Petersburg to Voronezh. Previously, a similar principle was tested in the Crimea. The introduction of modern automation tools is necessary in order to meet the high level of rearmament of domestic troops, experts explained.

Western border

As sources in the military Department told Izvestia, the integrated automated control system will begin to be formed as part of the 6th army of the air force and air defense of the Western military district next year. It will include several digital subsystems. They will take control of fighters, antiaircraft complexes, as well as radio engineering and radar stations. In turn, the automated control system will bring together data on the air situation and transmit them to the pilots of aircraft and calculations of SAM launchers.

Earlier, the Russian military Department said that the ZVO in the near future, as part of the state defense order, should receive promising automated control systems with anti-aircraft missiles and aircraft complexes, radio-technical troops and electronic warfare.

For the first time, a single automated control system was created to integrate air defense on the Crimean Peninsula in 2018, Izvestia previously reported. But in the Western military district, the territory that will be closed in a single contour is much larger. From North to South, and from West to East, the length of the zone of control of the 6th army of the air force and air defense is about 2 thousand km. It contains 26 regions of the northwestern and Central Federal districts.

Due to the international situation, it is especially important to develop the air defense system on the Western borders, believes the former commander of the 4th army of the air force and air defense, Lieutenant General Valery Gorbenko.

— The area for a potential enemy is interesting — from there you can move to Moscow and St. Petersburg, - the expert explained. — The Kaliningrad region is also located nearby, which does not have a common border with us. In those regions, NATO aircraft are now constantly conducting reconnaissance flights — including over neutral waters. It is not far from the Western borders to Moscow. In addition, the country's considerable industrial potential is concentrated in these regions. Therefore, we must be ready to repel not only current but also future threats. Now many countries are developing unmanned aircraft, hypersonic missiles and other means of attack.

"Troops of high automation»

Tests of a similar integrated system were conducted in the Crimea. According to the defense Ministry, during the exercises, the Russian armed forces on the Peninsula conditionally repelled the RAID of seventy cruise missiles at once. The prospective unified automated control system continuously received information about air and ground objects from radio engineering stations and radars, drones and aviation. All intelligence was aggregated and processed in real time. The system analyzed the type of targets, their level of danger, speed, altitude and direction of movement. There was a continuous exchange of information between all its participants, and target designations for air defense and fighter aircraft were issued. A commander of any level could get a complete picture of the enemy's actions and recommendations for its destruction.

Earlier, the Ministry of defense reported that for automation in the armies and anti-aircraft missile brigades of the Aerospace forces, the automated control system "Polyana-D4M1", which exists both in stationary and mobile versions, is being implemented. Under its control fall the famous S-400, S-300 and "Pantsiri".

To unite the army's air defense assets at the level of motorized rifle and tank brigades and divisions, the basic Barnaul-T subsystem is being supplied to the troops. It controls "Tori", "Tunguska", "Arrows" and various radars.

Both "Polyana" and "Barnaul-T" are capable of uniting the air defense forces of both the Ground forces and the aerospace forces under a single command. This helps them effectively detect and distribute among themselves various targets-from small drones to ballistic missiles.

— Air defense forces are highly automated troops. Starting from the primary link, the radar company, they are connected to various systems and subsystems — " said former Deputy head of the air force for the CIS joint air defense system, Lieutenant General Aytech Bizhev. — The task of the automated control system of radio-technical troops is to convey information to the higher command post as quickly as possible. Automated control systems of the antiaircraft missile forces should make a competent target allocation of fire capabilities of brigades and regiments. In the case of a massive air attack by an enemy, when a person does not have time to do it, the target designation is carried out in automatic mode. Previously, on the S-125, the commander himself twisted the antenna, and his operators carried out tracking of the target. Now everything depends on the algorithm. You only need to look at the screens and follow the recommendations of the car.

The automated system in the air defense system was also in the Soviet era, but today the troops and the aviation are supplied with new aircraft and air defense systems with other capabilities, the expert added. And the automated control system must comply with them.

— The modern control system should be very flexible, active, resilient, with wide combat capabilities, - added Aytech Bizev. — If earlier information about the change in the air situation reached the command post in two or three minutes, today the operator brings the marker to the object on the screen, and in a few seconds all the characteristics of the target-speed, altitude, direction-are on the monitors of a higher supervisor. The bandwidth of communication lines is constantly growing. Air defense systems are a high-tech type of armed forces.

Even anti-aircraft gunners equipped with the latest Verba portable air defense systems now have their own automated control system. It transmits information from radars, helping to find the enemy object even before it comes into view.

https://iz.ru/1098336/anton-lavrov-roman-kretcul/shchit-s-upravleniem-zapad-rossii-prikroet-avtomatizirovannaia-sistema

Almaz-Antey: Russia can resist all means of air and space attack

The head of the concern, Jan Novikov, said that the Russian Nebo-M radar station is capable of detecting the latest stealth combat aircraft, including the American F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II fighters.

NIZHNY NOVGOROD, May 22. /TASS/. Russia can resist any modern means of air and space attack. This was announced by the head of the concern "Almaz-Antey" Jan Novikov.

"We are able to resist all modern means of air and space attack," Novikov said at a lecture at the New Knowledge marathon.

According to the head of the concern, Russian air defense and missile defense systems are leading in a number of areas and are not inferior to their foreign counterparts. "In terms of air defense, we are absolute leaders, in terms of missile defense, we are going toe - to-toe," Novikov said.

According to him, the Russian Nebo-M radar station is capable of detecting the latest stealth combat aircraft, including the American F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II fighters.

"The Nebo-M radar is a stealth technology. Perfectly sees the F-22, F-35 and so on, " Novikov informed. According to him, Almaz-Antey pays considerable attention to the production of radars. "The concern produces more than 30 types of multifunctional mobile radar systems," Novikov added.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/11446201

Day of the Air Defense - 2021

Russian air defense will get a new advantage, by Evgeny Pozdnyakov, Daria Volkova, Alyona Zadorzhnaya for VZGLYAD. 02.27.2023.

It seems that a fundamental change has taken place in the organizational structure of the Russian Armed Forces. According to sources, the military air defense, subordinate to the Ground Forces, was transferred to the control of the Russian Aerospace Forces. What is the logic of such a transformation and what result should it lead to?

Military air defense (air defense) was withdrawn from the subordination of the Ground Forces and reassigned to the main command of the Aerospace Forces (VKS) of Russia. This was reported to TASS by two sources close to the Russian military department, but there was no official confirmation of the information.

As the agency notes, earlier air defense formations were both part of the Ground Forces (SV) and the Aerospace Forces. The first were engaged in escorting and covering units in the combat zone "on the ground." The latter solved the problem of "objective air defense".

During the Soviet period, the USSR Air Defense Forces were one of the five branches of the Armed Forces, including anti-missile and anti-space defense forces, fighter aircraft, anti-aircraft missile forces and radio engineering troops. Accordingly, the air defense forces were controlled by the commander-in-chief of this type of the USSR Armed Forces, which simplified the coordination of actions within the structure.

However, in the post-Soviet period, as a result of several reforms, this structure was divided between the VKS and the SV. “Accordingly, the transfer of military air defense to the Commander-in-Chief of the Aerospace Forces will allow creating a single radar and information field, as well as integrating all the necessary forces and means. This is how we will be able to overcome the existing discord,” said Aitech Bizhev, Lieutenant General, ex-Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force for the Joint Air Defense System of the CIS member states.

“A unified system will also simplify the goal-setting process."

The military will have a complete picture of the battles, which means that our actions will become more understandable and streamlined. In such a situation, the risks of “not noticing” an important object “will be seriously reduced,” the interlocutor continues.

“In addition, the transfer of air defense under the command of the VKS will make life easier for aviation. It will be extremely clear how and in what direction to support our aircraft. This discrepancy must be eliminated. In addition, we have such experience,” the expert notes.

“Efforts to centralize the activities of air defense have been made in Russia more than once. So, from 1978 to 1987, Air Marshal Alexander Ivanovich Koldunov held the position of Air Defense Commander-in-Chief. However, after Mathias Rust landed on the Bolshoy Moskvoretsky Bridge, Koldunov was dismissed,” recalls Bizhev.

“We returned to the issue of a unified command in 1991. Then, at the Alabino training ground, unified exercises were held, which were attended by Air Defense Commander Viktor Prudnikov and Ground Forces Commander Vladimir Semenov. And the first department showed a total advantage in all respects,” the expert emphasized.

“But a unified command did not work out. The fact is that air defense has become an important part of the Ground Forces. Its withdrawal was perceived as damaging the status of the entire department. However, the expert community still believes that a centralized air defense command is necessary,” the source points out.

Summing up, Bizhev noted: "If the decision to reassign the air defense is really made, this will be a qualitative change in the structure of the Russian Armed Forces, which in the future will lead to a more accurate fulfillment of the tasks set."

“We can assume that the changes are aimed at improving interspecific interaction and improving the quality of air defense at all levels: from tactical to operational,” military expert Boris Rozhin told the VZGLYAD newspaper. This will also reduce the number of cases of so-called friendly fire, that is, friendly fire.

“Infrequently, but there have been incidents when our own aircraft were shot down by mistake. In the case of integration, this problem can be solved. It is also likely that air defense and aviation communications will be strengthened on the ground and reliable air cover will be provided during attacking operations, ”the source notes.

“Combining resources, automation and control tools will create a unified aerospace defense system that will more effectively repel enemy attacks on our troops and rear facilities,” agrees Yuri Knutov, director of the Museum of Air Defense Forces.

The expert also recalled some incidents with the penetration of enemy UAVs into the rear areas of Russia. Most of the attacks were repulsed by means of electronic warfare, however, a possible reform will make it possible to comprehensively counteract such attacks.

“Obviously, we will not see the fruits of this reform tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. But in the future, the integration of air defense will allow us to quickly distribute and destroy targets, as well as expand our advantage in the air, ”added Knutov.

https://vz.ru/society/2023/2/27/1201047.html

Makes me wonder if air defence should not be a separate branch of the military all together so the Air Force and the Navy and the Army operate together with the Aerospace Defence forces (which incorporate space defence and air defence as well as Army air defence and Navy air defence...).

Having a unified air defence force means targets get one designation when detected which is shared by every branch so a naval target crosses onto land then army and navy and air force all share the same designation for the one target...

But does this mean essentially Pantsir and Tunguska and TOR become Aerospace defence force vehicles?

This is going to be interesting.

But does this mean essentially Pantsir and Tunguska and TOR become Aerospace defence force vehicles?

For vehicles such as the Tunguska, Tor, Strela-10, Sosna and others that are directly part of army or VDV formations - this doesn't make much sense though.
Nor does it make sense for Buks and such which may operate further back or independently, but which would be sharing all the same logistics chains, repair bases and so on.

Calculations of radio engineering troops have detected and provided support for more than 2 million air objects

During the air defense combat duty in 2023, the combat crews of the radio engineering troops on duty detected and provided support for more than 2.0 million air objects. Of these, about 600,000 foreign aircraft, more than 2,000 reconnaissance aircraft and more than 20 combat strategic bombers. At the same time, the forces on duty were alerted No. 1 more than 4,000 times, which is a clear indicator of the high intensity of combat duty in the radio engineering troops.

Today, the radio engineering troops are armed with modern radar equipment "Sky-MM", "Podlet", "Casta-VM", "Observer-FSRiKVP", "Update", "Niobium-M" and automation complexes "Foundation-M", remote indicator post- "VIP-117M3", the complex application of which makes it possible to detect and accompany any means of aerospace attack - from small–sized unmanned aerial vehicles to hypersonic missiles not only in the air, but also in space.

The operation of sophisticated electronic equipment requires a high level of personal training of officers, warrant officers, sergeants, soldiers and the coherence of units, taking into account the experience gained during a special military operation and in the Syrian Arab Republic.

During a special military operation, units and subunits of radio engineering troops receive tremendous combat experience, actively improve and develop new tactics for the use of units based on the high mobility of the latest models of electronic equipment.

This year, two military educational institutions of the Aerospace Forces - the Military Academy of Aerospace Defense named after Marshal of the Soviet Union G.K.Zhukov (Tver) and the Yaroslavl Higher Military School of Air Defense, as well as military training centers at federal state educational institutions of higher education – Siberian Federal University and Moscow State Technical University The Bauman University has trained more than 1,000 highly qualified officers of the radio engineering troops.

https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12494476@egNews

The army might ignore a blip on the radar which is not affecting their operations

But the Aerospace Forces will see everything and can give an order to intercept a drone seen heading to Russia

So the Tunguska and BUK and other army systems would be connected to the PVO network and will be detecting targets and transmitting that information to the PVO network too, but the PVO wont be defending empty space, they will be defending army and air force and navy targets as well as serious civilian infrastructure, so if a blip is detected that is not affecting their operations they might still get ordered to fire at it, just as some other force somewhere else might detect a blip not going for them but might be going for something else... if you can get it you shoot it down.

Of course PVO is not just about detecting and identifying objects and deciding whether to shoot them down or not, there will be enemy targets and also friendly targets and neutrals all operating in that airspace... a very complex air situation.