S-400 SAM System Exports

The contract to supply China systems S-400 has been signed yet - head FSMTC
05.16.2016 15:37:08

Moscow. 16th of May. Interfax-AVN - Contract for the supply of systems to China C-400 has not been signed, the head FSMTC Alexander Fomin.

"It is not signed will sign when you first find out." - Said the head of service, answering the question, where it may be awarded the contract for the supply of S-400 to China.

great, hope never...

Russia Could Deliver Variety of Air Defense Systems to Turkey - Kremlin

(Sputnik) — Russian President Vladimir Putin and his Turkish counterpart Recep Tayyip Erdogan discussed the possibility of supplying various types of air defense systems to Turkey, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Friday.

"Indeed, issues related to military and technical cooperation were in the agenda of Putin's contacts with Erdogan. Various air defense systems have been mentioned, which, if Turkey wishes, Russia could consider supplying in different variations," Peskov told reporters. "It is a purely commercial matter, a very sensitive area of cooperation," he clarified.

What do you think about that?

Airman wrote:Russia Could Deliver Variety of Air Defense Systems to Turkey - Kremlin

(Sputnik) — Russian President Vladimir Putin and his Turkish counterpart Recep Tayyip Erdogan discussed the possibility of supplying various types of air defense systems to Turkey, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Friday.

"Indeed, issues related to military and technical cooperation were in the agenda of Putin's contacts with Erdogan. Various air defense systems have been mentioned, which, if Turkey wishes, Russia could consider supplying in different variations," Peskov told reporters. "It is a purely commercial matter, a very sensitive area of cooperation," he clarified.

What do you think about that?

I think if there were any sales it would demonstrate that Ankara has a convincing argument for coming under threat from NATO in the future. But considering recent history I do not think this is altogether a likely possibility.

OminousSpudd wrote:

Airman wrote:Russia Could Deliver Variety of Air Defense Systems to Turkey - Kremlin

(Sputnik) — Russian President Vladimir Putin and his Turkish counterpart Recep Tayyip Erdogan discussed the possibility of supplying various types of air defense systems to Turkey, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Friday.

"Indeed, issues related to military and technical cooperation were in the agenda of Putin's contacts with Erdogan. Various air defense systems have been mentioned, which, if Turkey wishes, Russia could consider supplying in different variations," Peskov told reporters. "It is a purely commercial matter, a very sensitive area of cooperation," he clarified.

What do you think about that?

I think if there were any sales it would demonstrate that Ankara has a convincing argument for coming under threat from NATO in the future. But considering recent history I do not think this is altogether a likely possibility.

Even possibility of Turkey exiting NATO is scary enough for NATO. Turkish PM revealed such posibility in case Clinton is "voted" president

"NATO member Turkey says it is in talks with Russia to purchase advanced S-400 long-range air defense missile systems. Earlier, Ankara backed out of a similar deal with China, citing Beijing’s reluctance to transfer technolog".


https://www.rt.com/news/367445-turkey-russia-s-400/

par far wrote:"NATO member Turkey says it is in talks with Russia to purchase advanced S-400 long-range air defense missile systems. Earlier, Ankara backed out of a similar deal with China, citing Beijing’s reluctance to transfer technolog".


https://www.rt.com/news/367445-turkey-russia-s-400/

Are you F'ing kidding me, there's no way.

There are more and more reports that Russia is in negociation with Turkey for selling them the S-400 system. Are they really going to give it to a NATO member ?

Isos wrote:There are more and more reports that Russia is in negociation with Turkey for selling them the S-400 system. Are they really going to give it to a NATO member ?

Only really two possibilities here.

1. It is an Export version which is basically a watered down version Russia doesn't care if the Turks give to NATO. Because anyone with half a mind knows you cannot trust the turks.

2. Russia is so desperate for money they are basically selling their national security, one could argue they did this with China, Selling them the S-35 and 400's, since all china does is reverse engineer anything they buy. I assume Russia gave them export versions also knowing this.

It would be beyond insanity to sell them the s-400 the domestic version hell it was beyond insanity to give china anything that isn't 10-20 years old tech wise.

IMO China is beyond smart, why do the research yourself when you can hack/buy it from someone else and just copy it? basically letting you do all the work and just take the rewards. Chinese can't make tech on their own but they can build shit faster than anyone else, So once they copy something they can spit it in huge numbers with ease.

They will assess the risks. Russia isn't desperate for sales as Su-35, like Su-30SM was not intended as a domestic use aircraft but for export at the times of their make/induction. As well, China and Russia has some real backroom deals in terms of copyright hence why Russia hasn't actually bitched to China about copying. There is still some differences, mostly things like onboard systems that are different (Russian processors rather than using Chinese or something else). As noticed from past, Russia lost very little in these sales to China.

S-400 to Turkey, even if watered down, isn't exactly the best Idea. Imo.

miketheterrible wrote:They will assess the risks. Russia isn't desperate for sales as Su-35, like Su-30SM was not intended as a domestic use aircraft but for export at the times of their make/induction.  As well, China and Russia has some real backroom deals in terms of copyright hence why Russia hasn't actually bitched to China about copying.  There is still some differences, mostly things like onboard systems that are different (Russian processors rather than using Chinese or something else).  As noticed from past, Russia lost very little in these sales to China.

S-400 to Turkey, even if watered down, isn't exactly the best Idea. Imo.

Normally I would agree with you about selling S-400 to Turkey, but I think I get the reasoning behind why they want to sell it to the Turks. If you look at the NATO-Euro Meat Shield, The Aegis Ashore System, it's nothing more than NATO getting carte' blanche' to blatantly violate the INF Treaty, because the Mk. 41 cells derived from Aegis is capable of storing and launching Tomahawk cruise missiles, which ground based/launched cruise missiles are strictly prohibited by the INF Treaty. From Moscow's point of view, limiting NATO's first-strike potential (specifically from it's Southern flank) trumps everything else.

Only really two possibilities here.

1. It is an Export version which is basically a watered down version Russia doesn't care if the Turks give to NATO. Because anyone with half a mind knows you cannot trust the turks.

2. Russia is so desperate for money they are basically selling their national security, one could argue they did this with China, Selling them the S-35 and 400's, since all china does is reverse engineer anything they buy. I assume Russia gave them export versions also knowing this.

It would be beyond insanity to sell them the s-400 the domestic version hell it was beyond insanity to give china anything that isn't 10-20 years old tech wise.

IMO China is beyond smart, why do the research yourself when you can hack/buy it from someone else and just copy it? basically letting you do all the work and just take the rewards. Chinese can't make tech on their own but they can build shit faster than anyone else, So once they copy something they can spit it in huge numbers with ease.

The structure is the same, the domestic version has better software but with the same structure, IMO. If it's so much downgraded, it would be a S-300P/PMU1 and they wouldn't want it as they already rejected the S-300VM offered officialy when they opted for chinese versions. With China they have lot of long term agreements about oil and other civil agreements so they don't care.

Normally I would agree with you about selling S-400 to Turkey, but I think I get the reasoning behind why they want to sell it to the Turks. If you look at the NATO-Euro Meat Shield, The Aegis Ashore System, it's nothing more than NATO getting carte' blanche' to blatantly violate the INF Treaty, because the Mk. 41 cells derived from Aegis is capable of storing and launching Tomahawk cruise missiles, which ground based/launched cruise missiles are strictly prohibited by the INF Treaty. From Moscow's point of view, limiting NATO's first-strike potential (specifically from it's Southern flank) trumps everything else.

The cruise missile varient of Iskander can fire cruise missiles at 2500+ range. Bastion P can also target land as we saw last month. And they are mobile, not the case of these US land base lunchers.

The new relations between Russia and Turkey are more based on the relations between Erdogan and russia than mutual interest between countries and I'm not talking about military relations...

Turkey will not be buying S-400. It's all political shit show. Erdogan is trying to cut a deal with EU and west by playing the Russian card(holding them hostage). They played a similar game with Chinese HQ ABM system. At the end Turkey allegiance is with west, no matter what happens.

Isos wrote:There are more and more reports that Russia is in negociation with Turkey for selling them the S-400 system. Are they really going to give it to a NATO member ?

They gave S-300 to NATO member, back in time when it was what S-400 is now.

so it is official??

Turkey, Russia clinch agreement on S-400 air defense system deliveries

ANKARA, April 28. /TASS/. Turkey and Russia have reached an agreement in principle on the delivery of Russian-made S-400 long-range surface-to-air missile systems to the Turkish side and are negotiating the price and joint production issues, Turkey’s Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said on Friday.


More:
http://tass.com/defense/943772

George1 wrote:so it is official??

Turkey, Russia clinch agreement on S-400 air defense system deliveries

ANKARA, April 28. /TASS/. Turkey and Russia have reached an agreement in principle on the delivery of Russian-made S-400 long-range surface-to-air missile systems to the Turkish side and are negotiating the price and joint production issues, Turkey’s Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said on Friday.


More:
http://tass.com/defense/943772

Is this for real??

I read the article and it says that no deal has been signed, they are 'in talks'. It is an agreement in principle.
With the current political situation any kind of leverage or side agendas could be operating here. Unless Turkey leaving NATO is one of the key priciples agreed to I doubt this will go any further.

Turkey, Russia clinch agreement on S-400 air defense system deliveries

More:
http://tass.com/defense/943772


How safe it is to sell such a top end system to a NATO nation like Turkey that keeps changing colours like Chamelion

Austin wrote:Turkey, Russia clinch agreement on S-400 air defense system deliveries

More:
http://tass.com/defense/943772


How safe it is to sell such a top end system to a NATO nation like Turkey that keeps changing colours like Chamelion  

Not very safe at all. But then again, who knows what they (Turkey) would be getting. Russians are not stupid, so they probably figured that they can sell them S-400 with very specific tailored structure so it does not compromise what Russia uses. Don't forget, they did the same to S-300V to US which then later they funded VM which is a very potent and scary system that US complain about.

Austin wrote:Turkey, Russia clinch agreement on S-400 air defense system deliveries

More:
http://tass.com/defense/943772


How safe it is to sell such a top end system to a NATO nation like Turkey that keeps changing colours like Chamelion  

I don't trust them too . As soon as they will get their hands on them, they will conduct some "industrial espionage", and will send all data collected to their NATO allies.

Benya wrote:

Austin wrote:Turkey, Russia clinch agreement on S-400 air defense system deliveries

More:
http://tass.com/defense/943772


How safe it is to sell such a top end system to a NATO nation like Turkey that keeps changing colours like Chamelion  

I don't trust them too   . As soon as they will get their hands on them, they will conduct some "industrial espionage", and will send all data collected to their NATO allies.

Still it could mark the gradual shift from NATO to Russia. Turkey badly needs air defense. This is a win win situation.

Viktor wrote:

Benya wrote:

Austin wrote:Turkey, Russia clinch agreement on S-400 air defense system deliveries

More:
http://tass.com/defense/943772


How safe it is to sell such a top end system to a NATO nation like Turkey that keeps changing colours like Chamelion  

I don't trust them too   . As soon as they will get their hands on them, they will conduct some "industrial espionage", and will send all data collected to their NATO allies.

Still it could mark the gradual shift from NATO to Russia. Turkey badly needs air defense. This is a win win situation.

Maybe, but not safe at all. The Russian mod isn't foolish though. They know very well what is possibly at stake. Giving modern, advanced Russian AD system isn't a smart thing to do, especially to Turkey. But S-400 isn't anything new technically, and they could end up giving Turkey something like a PMU-1 but renamed to S-400.

With multitude of different munitions and sub systems. It isn't just a single system. Wrong again as always Arrow.