Incidents in Russia (Natural Disasters, Accidents and Emergencies)

http://translate.google.com/translate?&ie=UTF-8&sl=&tl=en&u=http://ria.ru/

1 dead and 2 injured. Wasn't in capital of Daegestan but in a village on main road.

Russian MoD building has burning issues...

As I said in the thread in the army section, I have a suspicion it maybe intentional. Old building + work being done on it + already having 3 newer buildings up and operational just gives me an idea that is an insurance scam. You hear it happening here with gov sites. But I could be wrong and may have been shoddy work or an oversight.

sepheronx wrote:As I said in the thread in the army section, I have a suspicion it maybe intentional. Old building + work being done on it + already having 3 newer buildings up and operational just gives me an idea that is an insurance scam. You hear it happening here with gov sites. But I could be wrong and may have been shoddy work or an oversight.

As i have few friends working in Russia on construction, mostly welding and similar specialised jobs, they say Russians love dodging basic rules when its about safety. Its quite similar here tho if construction company is one of the domestic ones.

Video of F5 that crashed in Netherlands

I figured creating this thread so that we can all get some information to incidences that happen in Russia. Daily there are fires in Russia and of course, there is spread of fake news surrounding it, especially in western media. So I figure with this thread, we can go through and provide some kind of intellectual (with some people at least) discussion of the events.

First post

Fire at Uralvagonzavod Plant:

https://ria.ru/incidents/20170827/1501184880.html

MOSCOW, 27 Jun — RIA Novosti. Paint shop caught fire Sunday evening at a defense plant "Uralvagonzavod" in Nizhny Tagil in the Sverdlovsk region. This was reported RIA Novosti a source in the emergency services of the region.
The fire area was about 150 square meters. Fight the fire, as reported in the Siberian regional emergency center, led 40 people and nine units of equipment.
According to preliminary data, the fire started in the spray booth at 20:20 GMT it was localized, and then eliminated. There were no injuries.
The shop was evacuated 50 people. As the source noted, the CHP plant is not affected. Danger to people in the enterprise there.
Uralvagonzavod — the largest Russian company tank engineering, as well as the developer and manufacturer of various types of freight cars, gondola cars, cargo trucks, tanks.

As noted, no one was injured and the fire was specifically in the spray painting section of the plant were 50 people operate.

When reading foreign press about it, it talks that there was the fire at the plant, largest in soviet Russia, etc etc etc and then comments like Kharkov plant is needed for Russia and blah blah blah.

An explosion in a St.Petersburg store has left around 10 injured.

https://www.rt.com/news/414373-explosion-petersburg-store-injured/

miketheterrible wrote:An explosion in a St.Petersburg store has left around 10 injured.

https://www.rt.com/news/414373-explosion-petersburg-store-injured/

I wonder if whoever did this was connected to the cell that got arrested there recently.

Chances are we'll see more of this in the lead up to the election and the World Cup

What's was the exact cause of this? Strictly rainfall or rivers overflowing?

If it's rivers then they should do something about dykes and dredging (we learned that the hard way here)

If it's just rain then not much you can do about it.

I would say the combination of both heavy rain and melting ice and snow would make things very difficult to cope with... even with plans in place...

Heavy rain on its own can be a problem at the best of times, but when it frees up water locked in ice and snow then you can get a lot of water very very quickly, which is hard to cope with.

They got flooded before but not to this extent. This is basically the same thing as the Mississippi flood plain residential areas but without
the levee's. They build their houses in the flood plain because they previous flooding has not been catastrophic in historical memory and
towns have tendency to form near rivers since rivers were the original highway system for goods shipment.

I suggest that this town be relocated to higher ground by decree. There is no point in praying the next flood event will be less severe.

Yeah, it is easy to make such judgements, but what is the higher ground nearby like... it might be unstable.

It doesn't matter where you build a house there is always a risk of something... flood, landslide, fire, earthquake,...

Every time I see a homeowner interviewed by the press, whether it is some rich bastard where their house surrounded by beautiful trees that was burned down in a fire, or some house in the US tornado ally... they always say they will rebuild...

GarryB wrote:Yeah, it is easy to make such judgements, but what is the higher ground nearby like... it might be unstable.

It doesn't matter where you build a house there is always a risk of something... flood, landslide, fire, earthquake,...

Every time I see a homeowner interviewed by the press, whether it is some rich bastard where their house surrounded by beautiful trees that was burned down in a fire, or some house in the US tornado ally... they always say they will rebuild...

Strange take you have there.

1) It is a fact that climate change is happening and turning 500 year floods into 10 year floods. Soon to be 1 year floods.

2) People live in various locations because they are emotionally attached not just because they are oppressed. Russia
is not America and your American examples are not relevant.

3) Are taxpayers supposed to keep rebuilding every flooded house every spring because somebody decided that floods are
a tolerable risk? These people are responsible for their own decisions.

Thus my suggestion that the town be relocated with a one time cost to the government is the correct course of action.
I am not sure what your moralizing is about.

1) It is a fact that climate change is happening and turning 500 year floods into 10 year floods. Soon to be 1 year floods.

Not that much higher ground in big open flat areas like Siberia, and with the current wildfire issue moving off a flood plane into something else may not be the best solution.

You need to look at why the houses are there in the first place... there is no point in moving entire cities to avoid the 500 year events that are now 10 year events, if they places you move them have the same problems that haven't become evident yet.

In 50 years time all of Siberia might be under 2m of water for all we know...

2) People live in various locations because they are emotionally attached not just because they are oppressed. Russia
is not America and your American examples are not relevant.

Isn't that what I said? Otherwise they would not rebuild... they would move to somewhere where the problem does not occur.

3) Are taxpayers supposed to keep rebuilding every flooded house every spring because somebody decided that floods are
a tolerable risk? These people are responsible for their own decisions.

What has taxpayers got to do with this... this is a house insurance issue... they are responsible for their own decisions, but those decisions will be heavily influenced by whether they can ensure what they rebuild or not.

Thus my suggestion that the town be relocated with a one time cost to the government is the correct course of action.
I am not sure what your moralizing is about.

Why do you think it is a government decision?

Let the people decide.

Question is how did it flood? Nearby river? My understanding it was from divergent of water from a Dam that was done incorrectly. But anyway, it can be fixed by how the water diverges. Then, towns need to build proper water drainage systems for if it rains really heavy.

Sad situation and now heavy fires too. Head of the emercom has stated politicians in the regions were warned ahead of time of the disasters but they did not act. Thus they should be prosecuted.

miketheterrible wrote:Question is how did it flood? Nearby river? My understanding it was from divergent of water from a Dam that was done incorrectly. But anyway, it can be fixed by how the water diverges. Then, towns need to build proper water drainage systems for if it rains really heavy.

Sad situation and now heavy fires too. Head of the emercom has stated politicians in the regions were warned ahead of time of the disasters but they did not act. Thus they should be prosecuted.

I would call BS on the bad construction spin. Spring/early summer floods in the north are routinely due to ice jams and if the
melt is too fast the degree of flooding is worse. We are clearly going to see faster melt in the coming years. As I noted before,
most of these town are on the river since they were not founded yesterday. It really is all about the melt rate. The soil remains
frozen while the snow rapidly melts causing a surge of water to the drainage pathways.

But even rainfall flooding is an increasing problem. We have had them here in Canada where massive convective rainbursts have totally
overwhelmed the drainage in sizeable population centers (parts of Toronto and Peterborough). These sorts of events are aggravated
by having housing in a river flood plain since the rainfall water deposition rate is too fast for absorption by the soil and the river
level rises substantially. The Mississippi flooding is rain induced flooding. No amount of dam control can prevent flooding.

There is no justification for people to be living in flood plains. The past is not a forecast of the future with climate change.
And whatever internet experts believe, there are places to relocate to that are not all that far from the original location.

I don't know why there are knee-jerk defenders of flood plain development idiocy. I guess the notion of sewage coating ever square
inch of real estate including the basements and first floors of flooded houses is somehow not repugnant.

Well there were lots of people here in New Zealand who asked why so many died in Christchurch when they had an earthquake... especially when they had already had a similar earthquake previously that only damaged buildings... but in this case it was the difference between the time of day of the quake rather than power... the deadly earthquake occurred during the day when people were on the streets so when the fronts of buildings collapsed onto the streets cars and people were crushed. When it happened before it happened in the middle of the night when most people were in bed.

For floods it is rather complicated... several factors need to occur together to cause a real problem, like dams bursting, and lots of ice and snow that large amounts of rain can turn back in to water, and lots of other issues like drains and drainage areas not being kept clear of debris that could block it etc etc.

Simply moving to higher ground sounds like good advice but what is the local area actually like... for all we know it could have been built on high ground that simply wasn't high enough this time and going to the enormous expensive of moving everything to even higher ground might not prevent flooding problems... large inland areas can have enormous rain catchment areas so even light drizzle over a large area or for a long period of time can lead to enormous amounts of water that you really can't do anything with... in such regions where the ground is permafrost and one or two metres down the ground is frozen solid you are not going to get the water being absorbed into the ground and going down to a water table... the water will just flow like the ground is clay.

You can improve water ways and set up large open empty areas to divert water into to prevent other areas from being flooded but even that does not work all the time.

Even just preparation and warning times to people to be aware of the problems and perhaps build a second story on their house they can move to for safety could be things to look at, but a large amount of fast flowing water will bring down the strongest constructions... I just think saying move the place to higher ground is like saying that the people on the Hindenberg should have been a bit more careful....

The military should have a quick develop unit for situations like these.


https://www.rt.com/russia/507540-vladivostok-electricity-shortages-extreme-weather/

par far wrote:The military should have a quick develop unit for situations like these.


https://www.rt.com/russia/507540-vladivostok-electricity-shortages-extreme-weather/

The same thing happened in Canada in the province of Quebec with the same long duration power outage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_1998_North_American_ice_storm

The military can't fix all the damaged infrastructure all that fast. They would have to have deployed
generators but the number involved would be massive. Nobody had the domestic backup power
in Canada since we are not talking about one of those 4000 Watt generators but a larger one tied
into the electrical system of the house. In Russia people live in multi-residential buildings so those
buildings would require hospital sized backup generators. Those are huge and nobody anywhere
installs them in apartment buildings.

Anyone trying to spin this as a Russian fail is a scumbag.