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Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

Hole

Hole: Posts : 11109
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Post n°926

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

Hole Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:40 pm

The B747 was produced sode by side with the B777 for nearly two decades.

The Il-96 wasn´t build in large numbers because western "advisers" told Jelzin that in a market economy you can´t subzidize companies. So no money for russian producers. In the meantime Airbus and Böing received 20+ Billion from Washington and Brussels, respectively.

KiloGolf

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Post n°927

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

KiloGolf Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:43 pm

Hole wrote:The B747 was produced sode by side with the B777 for nearly two decades.

The Il-96 wasn´t build in large numbers because western "advisers" told Jelzin that in a market economy you can´t subzidize companies. So no money for russian producers. In the meantime Airbus and Böing received 20+ Billion from Washington and Brussels, respectively.

Even if they marketed Il-96 (e.g. in ex-USSR or Eastern Countries/Africa) nobody would buy it as the Boeing 767, 777 and A330, 340 were better options.

miketheterrible

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Post n°928

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

miketheterrible Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:21 am

Actually no Kilo, go back a while and read Austin's post. It was found out Il-96 was very efficient and effective. Hole is correct, Aeroflot was bribed not to purchase them and purchase boeing's instead

kvs likes this post

KiloGolf

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Post n°929

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

KiloGolf Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:23 am

miketheterrible wrote:It was found out Il-96 was very efficient and effective. Hole is correct, Aeroflot was bribed not to purchase them and purchase boeing's instead

Il-96 was never going to be efficient on Aeroflot long haul routes vs. 777-200ER or -300ER.
It just wouldn't work. Even the 200ER back in the day carried more pax, burning less fuel

Last edited by KiloGolf on Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:25 am; edited 1 time in total

Nibiru

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Post n°930

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

Nibiru Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:23 am

because of the tense atmosphere between NATO and Russia, somewhere down the road Russia might even to denied purchase of 777Fs, if this happens what will be Russia's alternative? many here claim Il-96 is old and outdated, so is there actually a plan by Russia to develop their own NEW long range wide body airliner that can also be converted for cargo purposes? Russia can't just sit this one out, there is a high demand for these types of aircrafts today and for many years to come.

Austin

Austin: Posts : 7617
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Post n°931

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

Austin Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:30 am

Russia did a big mistake by not putting into large serial production IL-96 and Tu-214/204 , Till now they would have got better variants of two.

It is not just a mistake but treasonous and even now airlines are allowed to buy Boeing or Airbus

Nibiru

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Post n°932

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

Nibiru Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:42 pm

Austin wrote:Russia did a big mistake by not putting into large serial production IL-96 and Tu-214/204 , Till now they would have got better variants of two.

It is not just a mistake but treasonous and even now airlines are allowed to buy Boeing or Airbus

what happened is unfortunate, but is Russia doing something to address this problem?

Hole

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Post n°933

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

Hole Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:54 pm

MS-21, Il-496, CR919
Plus there are now state-owned banks and leasing companies that help russian airlines. Only thing missing are politicans who go aorund the world and threaten smaller countries with wars if they don´t buy russian jets.

George1

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Post n°934

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

George1 Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:15 pm

Press tour around the Sukhoi SuperJet-100 production in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. So far 164 aircraft produced

https://fotografersha.livejournal.com/997075.html

Nibiru

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Post n°935

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

Nibiru Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:36 pm

Hole wrote:MS-21, Il-496, CR919
Plus there are now state-owned banks and leasing companies that help russian airlines. Only thing missing are politicans who go aorund the world and threaten smaller countries with wars if they don´t buy russian jets.

Thanks. i was kinda hoping though that Russia pursue its 777f analog by its own, but i guess in difficult times Russia has no other better option than to partner with China. I am not against Russia-China collaboration, but of course the more Russia can do by its own, the better.

Isos

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Post n°936

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

Isos Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:35 pm

Hole wrote:MS-21, Il-496, CR919
Plus there are now state-owned banks and leasing companies that help russian airlines. Only thing missing are politicans who go aorund the world and threaten smaller countries with wars if they don´t buy russian jets.

It is not just a mistake but treasonous and even now airlines are allowed to buy Boeing or Airbus

Press tour around the Sukhoi SuperJet-100 production in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. So far 164 aircraft produced

They lease money for that shity SSJ which is a western plane that russia only put togather. They should either stop it or make it full russian. At first I though it was the case but it isn't.

It's like Saab and grippen ...

Sukhoi probably get 1% of the price when they sell one ...

kvs

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Post n°937

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

kvs Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:29 am

Isos wrote:

Hole wrote:MS-21, Il-496, CR919
Plus there are now state-owned banks and leasing companies that help russian airlines. Only thing missing are politicans who go aorund the world and threaten smaller countries with wars if they don´t buy russian jets.

It is not just a mistake but treasonous and even now airlines are allowed to buy Boeing or Airbus

Press tour around the Sukhoi SuperJet-100 production in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. So far 164 aircraft produced

They lease money for that shity SSJ which is a western plane that russia only put togather. They should either stop it or make it full russian. At first I though it was the case but it isn't.

It's like Saab and grippen ...

Sukhoi probably get 1% of the price when they sell one ...

You are grossly exaggerating when you claim that the joint Russia-France project SENCMA engines make the SSJ a western plane
which Russia puts together. Did you ever bother to inform yourself about the SSJ? Does not sound like it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerJet_SaM146

http://www.aeronewstv.com/en/industry/commercial-aviation/3748-building-a-sukhoi-superjet-100-who-does-what.html

All the foreign components are no indication of "pre-fab" assembly in Russia.

Isos

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Post n°938

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

Isos Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:49 am

I saw that 66% of the engine are of western tech. Look the picture in your second source basically everything is from the west. Sukhoi provide the plastic for the fuselage. Every critical systems are from other companies.

GarryB

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Post n°939

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

GarryB Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:15 am

Russia has no other better option than to partner with China. I am not against Russia-China collaboration, but of course the more Russia can do by its own, the better.

Actually collaboration with China is a very good thing.

China does not impose sanctions on Russia regarding morality or this or that elected official in China or Russia, and more importantly the joint venture creates a product with two significant markets, where the alternative is perhaps China builds a competing item for their domestic market that they will try to compete on the international market with... against anything the Russians might build.

With joint development it means a shared domestic market and shared marketing around the world...

Hole

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Post n°940

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

Hole Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:53 am

China needs the tech and know how to build large planes, which Russia has.

The SSJ 100 is a typical "modern" plane. Parts from all over the world. And it was supposed to be that way to win customers from western countries.

George1

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Post n°941

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

George1 Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:18 am

United Aircraft Corporation to receive $21 mln for upgrade of Il-96-400M production

The project is estimated at 1.47 bln rubles ($23 mln)

MOSCOW, July 28. /TASS/. Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev has signed a decree on providing investments from the budget for the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) amounting to 1.32 bln rubles ($21 mln) to finance the production of Il-96-400M passenger airliner, according to the document released on the government’s website on Saturday.

"The signed decree provides budget investments amounting to 1.32 bln rubles for the United Aircraft Corporation. The funds will be allocated to reconstruction and technical upgrading of the Il-96-400M passenger airliner construction. The project will be commissioned in 2020," an explanatory note to the decree said.

The project is estimated at 1.47 bln rubles ($23 mln), with 1.32 bln rubles ($21 mln) being federal budget funds.

More:
http://tass.com/economy/1015191

Nibiru

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Post n°942

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

Nibiru Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:23 am

United Aircraft Corporation to receive $21 mln for upgrade of Il-96-400M production

Any ideas what will come out of this project? Upgrade of production, so retooling of factories perhaps? Is it safe to assume that Il-96 400M orders will increase after this?

Austin

Austin: Posts : 7617
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Post n°943

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

Austin Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:13 pm

Nibiru wrote:

United Aircraft Corporation to receive $21 mln for upgrade of Il-96-400M production

Any ideas what will come out of this project? Upgrade of production, so retooling of factories perhaps? Is it safe to assume that Il-96 400M orders will increase after this?

Cost effective and safe mass transport system ( 400 + pax ) for long distance flight like say connecting Moscow to Far east or moscow to vladivostok

Hope they make 20 plus IL-96-400M

Austin

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Post n°944

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

Austin Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:15 pm

IL-96-400M - the future flagship of Russian aviation

kvs

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Post n°945

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

kvs Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:43 pm

Austin wrote:IL-96-400M - the future flagship of Russian aviation

Lots of sloppy analysis. Like the claim that the same price tag if $20 billion for the Chinese-Russian new aircraft from scratch
development will apply to the update to the IL-96-X.

Discussion about video screens on passenger chairs is inane. There is no question that such details will be updated.

The central landing gear in the rear is a totally secondary issue compared to the engines when it comes to operating cost
per passenger. Trying to remove this actually useful feature (regardless of the yapping about runway quality) would entail
fuselage redesign and unnecessary cost. May as well do a new aircraft design from scratch.

Given NATO's war aggression, worrying about bitchy demands by international customers is not worthwhile. Russia needs
its own long-haul aircraft to replace all the 777s and A-350s. Instead we have this:

Austin

Austin: Posts : 7617
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Post n°946

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

Austin Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:59 pm

kvs agree 100 % , They should first ban buying any new Foreign type be that be boeing or airbus and this should start from Aeroflot.

This is nothing short of Treasonous when Russia is under more than 45 different sanction from west.

kvs likes this post

PapaDragon

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Post n°947

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

PapaDragon Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:13 pm

kvs wrote:.....
Given NATO's war aggression, worrying about bitchy demands by international customers is not worthwhile. Russia needs
its own long-haul aircraft to replace all the 777s and A-350s. Instead we have this:

No problem, as soon as Russia starts building aircraft that can do what A350 can they should definitely get local product...

Until then no prizes for second place...or no place as things are right now for Russia

Austin

Austin: Posts : 7617
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Post n°948

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

Austin Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:48 pm

You dont reach 1st till you reach 2nd ... so suggesting Russia should not buy more IL-96-400M till they can build as good as A-350 is a loosing game.

This is the same problem we face in India where we keep importing hoping someday what we make will catch up the best of the world and this is a never breaking cycle.

If Russia has to make something as good as A-350 or better it should start using IL-96 now and in next 10 year it will catch up to something like A350 else it a never breaking loop

I hope the next ban from US is to stop sell civilian aircraft to Russia would be a Great Blessing

George1

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Post n°949

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

George1 Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:40 am

Construction of the first prototype aircraft Il-114-300

United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) on July 30, 2018 published a photo of the first pilot prototype of the passenger turboprop Il-114-300 under construction. The signature reads: "The prototype IL-114-300 in the hangar of the branch of PJSC" IL "in Zhukovsky, where its assembly is based on the existing reserve. The completion of work on the aircraft is planned after 2020".

Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 38 5757921_original

Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 38 5757921_original

Further, the UAC releases the release of "Il-114-300 will be produced in Lukhovitsy on the production site of the RAC" MiG ". As a power plant for the reconstructed aircraft, the perspective engines TV7-117ST will be used, which are tested at the flying IL-76LL laboratory. "

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3290808.html

KomissarBojanchev

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Post n°950

Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

KomissarBojanchev Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:19 pm

PapaDragon wrote:

kvs wrote:.....
Given NATO's war aggression, worrying about bitchy demands by international customers is not worthwhile. Russia needs
its own long-haul aircraft to replace all the 777s and A-350s. Instead we have this:

No problem, as soon as Russia starts building aircraft that can do what A350 can they should definitely get local product...

Until then no prizes for second place...or no place as things are right now for Russia

The Il-96-400 can do what the A350 can. And it shouldnt matter even if its 10 times as inferior, they should not fund their mortal geopolitical and economic enemies. Also by buying Russian, this will increase the GDP so Russian aircraft companies can create aircraft superior to airbus. That's how the west won. France encouraged its citizens to buy citroen and peugeot no matter how inferior they were to Ford or mercedes, and that's how france is an automotive superpower.

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