Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues
Tsavo Lion wrote:I doubt that such a big sub with non-hydrodynamicaly & large conning tower won't generate undesirable noise when moving at 20+ knots.
They better have 2-3 escort SSNs/ASW ships & carry ISR UAVs for better situational awareness & targeting.
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Big_Gazza wrote:maybe the naval architects involved forgot to tank test the model with the sail attached?
Mir wrote:The double hull construction already makes it a very stealthy sub. The only time when they will be noisy is when they launch those Tsirkons
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I'm no expert, but if they were noisier before modernization, what was done to reduce the noise, besides puting new screws? The rest of the sub looks the same.Big_Gazza wrote:So now you're a hydrodynamics expert who can evaluate the efficiency of a sail solely by visual appearence?
The Pr.949 sail looks fine IHMO, and I'd find it hard to believe that a boat designed to covertly trail behind NATOstani CBGs would be equipped with a noisy sail... maybe the naval architects involved forgot to tank test the model with the sail attached?
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Arrow wrote:
https://spp.fas.org/eprint/snf03221.htm
A Western study on silencing Soviet/Russian submarines. Of course, everything is based on speculation.
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. Even though they tested it on Kilo ships etc. before it was on project 955.GarryB, Big_Gazza, lancelot and Mir like this post
Arrow wrote:YEven though the Russians did excellent machining and had very good machine tools, etc.
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Because of all those facts the Americans had only two things to counter: our electronics are better and our subs are quieter.The scale of the Soviet experience in the area is unmatched by anyone, only because of scale and numbers here.
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Because of all those facts the Americans had only two things to counter: our electronics are better and our subs are quieter. wrote:
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It was made only to suggest that it carries same number as the 671RTM, which is not the case. GarryB, Hole, lancelot and Mir like this post
Last but not least, 671RTM was introduced only a YEAR after 688, as a stop gap solution only - a 3rd generation 945 and 971 were just around the corner, beating shit out of every single murican Wunderwaffe until Seawolf closed a gap - a decade later ... wrote:
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but the funny part is that those are the same old shitty Tomahawks and Harpoons that impress perfectly no one these days. wrote:
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the Oscars r noisy compared to newer subs;
Hitting a moving CSG from that far will need help with up to date target designation by other ships/subs/UAVs/sats or MPA.
the NATO intel will know they r on patrol since they'll not be that hard to detect.
I doubt that such a big sub with non-hydrodynamicaly & large conning tower
won't generate undesirable noise when moving at 20+ knots.
They better have 2-3 escort SSNs/ASW ships & carry ISR UAVs for better situational awareness & targeting.
I'm no expert, but if they were noisier before modernization, what was done to reduce the noise, besides puting new screws? The rest of the sub looks the same.
What is an issue with 99% of US based sources is the fact that every single one of those is spoiled by the fact that they are trying to push "murica better" agenda rather than verify.
Even the Granit's a very "intelligent" missile!
... what makes me wonder, what will Russkie do with hundreds of P-700 missiles they have in storage?
They surely have about 1000 pcs, as only the ships carried around 500 missiles on board.
Those would make formidable area denial batteries only if dismantled and put on shore.
Even if such a 3M22 is approaching the target, it must slow down so that its radar or optoelectronic/IR sensors can better image the target.
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This is like claiming an F-15 has to slow down to subsonic speed so that the AIM-120 can be aimed better.it must slow down so that its radar or optoelectronic/IR sensors can better image the target.
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not while following enemy ships' movements!True, but at low speeds the are difficult enough to detect that you would need active sonar to find one... and no huge reason to operate at high speeds...
raising comm antenna may be detected before it's lowered again- all of NATO+Japan has many MPA, UAVs & ASW helos to prosecute subs.They can receive data on carrier groups via satellite, ..
even if it was, it's the biggest of all subs since the Typhoon SSBNs been retired, making more turbulence thx to increased H2O resistance. It's like the old Chinese coastal junks that had flat bottom & blunt nose sections for navigating in shallows but making them slow & harder to navigate in deep water. The Portugeese Lorcha was a hybrid ship with streamlined shape, Chinese style masts & rigging, giving it better seekeeping.Why do you think its conning tower is not hydrodynamically designed?
it's possible, but the UK has bases on its islands there & Swedes/Germans/Spanish/Italians/French can send their SSK/SSNs to track it 24/7. More efficient to use them as escorts or sentinels in the N. Atlantic/Pacific/Med.Sea to augment newer SSN/GN subs.What if it runs at 30 knots to the south atlantic and then starts operating at speeds you would need to get very close and stay very close to continue to follow for the next month. At quiet speeds it could easily make its way north and loiter unnoticed off the coast of the US of A,
they could operate with CGNs & in the Arctic as multipurpose subs & occasionaly surface & make port calls to show they mean business- the USN SSG/BNs did the same not that long ago.Operating with ships would make its presence obvious...
"not that hard to detect" isn't=easy. They may be harder to detect & still have utility, as u well know, the RuN still doesn't have enough large surface ships & SSNs to face threats & conduct blue water ops. The same excuse they have with other old ships they been storing/upgading for years while being busy with building NP icebreakers, Arctic OPVs, LHDs, & LNG tankers that take a lot of space in drydocks... if noise was a problem on such a sub... why would they bother with an upgrade and new missiles if it was easy to find and deal with?
or warehouses full of arms/production of drones.I thought it would be a good weapon for hitting western Ukraine... along with any Vulkans and Moskits they might have lying around.
or they could cut off the missile section on retired Oscar & bring it to the Azov/Caspian Sea by rivers before launching them, if the entire sub is too big to sail it there.Maybe modify the Tu-22M3 to carry them three at a time perhaps...
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