Poliment-Redut Naval Air Defense System

GarryB wrote:In the Oscar the Granit tubes are side by side, but three Onyx missiles fit inside the Granit tubes.

Ok thanks. That is strange because the Granit is not that much bigger in terms of diameter compared to the Onyx (0.85 vs. 0.7 m)

The cell size is fixed and as you can see in the picture above the use of 9M96 missiles does not fill the cell efficiently. Having a quad liner for the cell so four missiles could be loaded makes sense but if the missiles are shorter as well as narrower then why not have layers too?

Yes that is the idea.

One tube could carry one S-400 full sized missile with a range of 400km, or it could carry a normal S-400 with a 250km range, or it could carry two layers of missiles with four missiles packed into each layer for 8 x 9M96 missiles per tube, or three layers of 5 missiles with the 9M100 missiles with a total of 15 missiles per tube.
...
It would make bigger ships very formidably armed...

I referred to smaller ships because they already have no huge amount of the big CMs /ASMs and therefore further reduction by using up some cells for SAM would maybe not be as interesting as spreading the SAM cells in swallower areas of the ship. In bigger ships you would be better off by stacking and putting short/mid range SAMs side by side in deeper cells, it may help using up the hull better.

I don't see the point in unification of the UKSK cruise missile launchers and the Redut SAM launchers... the difference between the small SAMs and the big SAMs is big enough already without adding enormous cruise missiles to the problem.

S-400 tubes and VLS are not really different in size. Some missions may need more offensive firepower, other more SAMs. Flexibility is always good, as well as unification. Don't have a strong opinion on feasibility though.

You could have small shallow 9M100 launchers all over the place as they are short range lock on after launch IIR guided missiles that would always be useful... even embedded in the sides of ships facing outwards...

Agree to some point, but complex technical setups are cheaper and easier to maintain if concentrated in one or few areas. Our technology is not that sophisticated yet to have missiles on a ship as if they were leafs growing by themselves on a tree if you know what I mean

hoom wrote:UKSK-M is supposed to be properly universal.

Could make sense as said above. Even when smaller VLS cells will still be needed.

Ok thanks. That is strange because the Granit is not that much bigger in terms of diameter compared to the Onyx (0.85 vs. 0.7 m)

The information released stated the Granit launch tubes were to be kept and fitted with launch tube liners and the payload was going from 24 Granits to 72 Onyx missiles...

Agree to some point, but complex technical setups are cheaper and easier to maintain if concentrated in one or few areas. Our technology is not that sophisticated yet to have missiles on a ship as if they were leafs growing by themselves on a tree if you know what I mean

Will always need a crane to lower the weapons into the launchers, but a better design would be to open the hatches and lower complete tube liners containing the missiles all ready to fire into each cell.

Side mounted cells would be tricky to access, but just a use of available space...

Source: Polymer-Redut air defense system will be put into service in the first half of 2019

The interlocutor of the agency noted that all tests of the anti-aircraft missile system are scheduled for completion at the end of 2018

At the end of 2018, it is planned to complete all tests of the air defense system from the Corvette Project 20380, including firing from this carrier to air and sea targets. In the first half of 2019, the complex is planned to be used by the Navy," the agency’s source said.

The source said that the “Polymen-Redut” air defense system will be armed with all new and upgraded surface combat ships of the corvette and frigate classes. "The air defense system will also be installed on the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier and on the Admiral Nakhimov and Peter the Great heavy nuclear missile cruisers during their renovation with modernization," the source added.

Earlier, tests of the complex were successfully completed on the main frigate of the project 22350 "Admiral Gorshkov". According to open sources, a version of the Redut air defense system is currently being installed on the corvettes of the project 20380, without the Polyment radar antenna with a phased antenna array.

"Polyment-Redut" - a shipborne anti-aircraft missile system with a vertical launch. According to open sources, the system is able to use 9M96MD anti-aircraft missiles with a maximum range of destruction of air targets up to 150 km.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5835876

It is interesting... sometimes they say 40km and 120km range for the big and small 9M96 missiles and sometimes it is 60km and 150km range... perhaps the two shorter ranges are for the export models?

BTW had a look at photos of the Granit launchers on the Oscars and the tubes look to be over 1m across... perhaps the rear fins don't fold?

The tubes on the Kuznetsov are big too.

The range of 40 and 120km was mentioned back in the late 90´s as the 9M96 emerged. Engines and propellant got better since then.

Pic of P-700 in its transport/launch container.

In the Russian Federation completed state tests of the shipborne anti-aircraft complex "Polyment-Redut"[/b]

MOSCOW, February 11. / TASS /. State tests of the Polimen-Redut shipborne anti-aircraft missile system have been completed, said Vladimir Korolev, Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, who was quoted on the Red Star newspaper on Monday .

"[b]The state tests of the Poliment-Redut anti-aircraft missile system have been completed," Korolev said.

Previously, a TASS source in the military-industrial complex reported that the development will be adopted in the first half of 2019.

"Poliment-Redut" combines a new radar system "Polyment" with the Redut complex, which implements a vertical launch of anti-aircraft missiles. According to open sources, it allows the use of 9M96MD missiles, whose range reaches 150 km. The frigates of project 22350 are equipped with such complexes, the first of which, Admiral Gorshkov, added to the Russian Navy in July 2018. As expected, the second ship of this type, the Admiral Kasatonov, will be received by sailors by the end of 2019.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6099263

Done

Good news!
I wonder if its actually meeting original planned specs now or if they rolled back the requirements a bit?

Hope they do a video like the one where Grigorovich did a 6 (or was it 8?) missile salvo launch at 3 (4?) simultaneous targets.

it could be that we are talking about three types of missiles not two as discussed about untill now

- 40km (small range) , 60km (from BUK - medium range ) and 120km for export and 150km (long range)

Viktor wrote:it could be that we are talking about three types of missiles not two as discussed about untill now

- 40km (small range) , 60km (from BUK - medium range ) and 120km for export and 150km (long range)

I think the 40km range is the export version of the 60 km range.

There are supposedly the 9M96 (60km), 9M96M (120km) and 9M96M2 (150km) plus the 9M100 (10km).

The BUK-M3 missile is Shtil-1 on 11356.
I've seen no indication its compatible with Redut, though presumably the Active version could work with Poliment.

Look at infographics gents,

1) 3 kinds of missiles presented + one perspective with range 400km altitude 35km Izvestia claims it is built base of 40N6E

2) on second infographics there is info which ships are to be armed with new poliment redut.
23560, 22350 and corvettes 20385 but picture actually depicts 22160. I would not mint thb



https://iz.ru/813938/aleksei-ramm-bogdan-stepovoi/sbit-so-sveta-korabli-poluchat-novye-zenitnye-rakety

Hole wrote:There are supposedly the 9M96 (60km), 9M96M (120km) and 9M96M2 (150km) plus the 9M100 (10km).

looks like here it comes a new one with range 400km...

One cell can hold four 9M100.


And a missile with a much larger diameter then 9M96, according to Gunship.

Might just be for testing.

The 9M96 serious of missiles were called S-400, but will become S-350 missiles in the land based missile system.

Originally there were four S-400s to each launcher and the 9M96 were designed to have four missiles for each S-400 missile tube.

In the tube above they use a liner that only has one tube per launch hatch but there is clearly room for more than one tube on the final missile system... it was initially intended for there to be four smaller missiles per tube, and indeed in terms of length you could probably put two layers of the shorter 40-60km range missiles.

Very simply it would be very inefficient if you could only have one missile per tube no matter what type.

Being able to have one 400km range missile in the tube makes sense because it would be a big missile, but if smaller missiles only fit one per tube why would you bother carrying smaller missiles... you wouldn't.

But if the choice was one 400km missile or four 150km range missiles or 8 60km range missiles then you can mix and match your weapons to meet potential situations.

For instance if you have a 12 tube launcher you might want four tubes for long range weapons that could take down AWACS aircraft or inflight refuelling tanker aircraft that stray too close or JSTARS or Growler aircraft that you might be able to catch unaware... that leaves 8 tubes, so four tubes with 150km range missiles would give you 16 shots at aircraft, and 32 shots at missiles or close in threats, for a total of 52 missiles in a 12 tube launcher... that is pretty good defence and most ships should be able to manage at least two launchers so you can double that sort of fire power.

Over time you could add even smaller missiles for CIWS defence like the 9M100 or indeed a new version of TOR that can be fitted to shallow areas of the deck with lots of ready to fire missiles.

Really huge news! Redut and Pantsir-M will be coming in a shipping container near you!

For the Russian Navy will develop a containerized missile systems

Container versions of UKSK/M and Redut? Oh the possibilities....

Isos wrote:You need a search and a tracking radars for redut missiles. That's useless unless you make a datalink btw the container and a gorshkov that is sailing few km away. But then there is no surprise factor.

Apparently the antennas with the radars are in the container and come out when open, so they don't need to be linked to a frigate nearby.

SAM "Redoubt" is composed of the radar "Polyment" with four phased array antennas and missiles that are placed in the installations of vertical start-up consisting of modules of four or eight cells each. In the end, the system can fire up to 16 targets simultaneously. Its practical range is 400 km.

a combined container versions air defense systems "Shell-M" and "Redoubt" might create a layered air defense of the ship, initially not having a strong defense.

It is not clear how many modules of 4 or 8 cells can they normally carry. If they have less than 16 cells I would find more practical a containered shtil (naval buk), that I believe has a decent 65 km range

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

It is not clear how many modules of 4 or 8 cells can they normally carry. If they have less than 16 cells I would find more practical a containered shtil (naval buk), that I believe has a decent 65 km range

Container Redut likely will able to fire missiles designated for Vityaz, so medium range will likely be covered.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

It is not clear how many modules of 4 or 8 cells can they normally carry. If they have less than 16 cells I would find more practical a containered shtil (naval buk), that I believe has a decent 65 km range

Container Redut likely will able to fire missiles designated for Vityaz, so medium range will likely be covered.

I just meant that if they have less than 12 cells it is almost not worth to carry the expensive poliment radar to be able to direct the long range redut missiles. I believe that the radar for shtil can be simpler and cheaper. Of course, if they are carrying something 24 redut cells or more the cost of the better radar is justified

Well what sort of radar would it need in these containers?

These missiles are ARH and IIR, so the civilian ship carrying these containers could have a datalink to the naval network, or it could use its own civilian air search radar to find a target and calculate an intercept box to direct these missiles too so they could then activate their own radar inside the nose of the missile and engage the target.

I would say having a large number of these crates sitting on the decks of ships with a single Ka-31 helo would be interesting... even on a civilian cargo ship...

But more importantly it makes Russian military ships rather more flexible because ships can be uparmed simply by putting a crate on it deck for specific missions to add capability....

Makes them much more modular... expect new Russian military ships to have free deck space for cargo containers... will be useful for logistics too...

I guess you could do an S-350 radar truck bit in one container, a TEL truck in another

1) 3 kinds of missiles presented + one perspective with range 400km altitude 35km Izvestia claims it is built base of 40N6E

Well that confirms why the area under each Redut hatch is so big... to fit the 40N6 missiles.

Therefore it is logical that the 9M96 missiles can be loaded four to each hatch, and the smaller 9M100 can be fitted 16 to each hatch... and that is assuming they only use one layer of missiles as the much smaller 9M100 missiles might be short enough to stack in two layers...