Poliment-Redut Naval Air Defense System

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:I thought I would repost one of my earlier post on this subject.

On 05/06/14 Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

TR1 wrote:Yes, as I thought from the start.

It is a small ship, Redut is a pretty potent system on a corvette.

I stand corrected. I was one of the people that thought there would be 48 of the 9M96/9M96D class missiles in the 12 launcher wells.

My current assessment is as follows.

Having twelve of such highly potent missiles in this warship qualitatively represents a very high level of capability but also a low quantity of missiles. Also this arrangement makes inefficient use of the deck area; it is worth noting all of the empty, unused space in each well.

It is possible to fit, may be, 9 X 9M100 class missiles in each well, but that would equate to a case diametrically opposite to the above situation. A combination of 9M96-class and 9M100-class would still not address a requirement for a moderately large number of moderately capable missiles.

Based on the above considerations, I think these ships will additionally use a class of moderate-size radar guided missile (similar to 9M338 or 9M339 class) where four of each can fit in each well.

My calculations show that the 9M338-class and the 9M339-class of missiles have a fuselage diameter of about 195 mm; TLC diameter is 240 mm. 9M96/9M96D missiles, on the other hand, have fuselage diameters of 240 mm.

Also to consider is, for example, Agat's "9B-1103M-150" Ka band active seeker which is designed for missiles with fuselage diameters of 150 mm.

In conclusion, I think the load-out would include a few larger missiles, a few smaller missiles, and many medium-size ones.

Guys,

I had to do a major edit after I initially posted this; I can now make out the writings on the TLCs.

The following image apparently shows the 9M100 missiles, packed 4 per each well in, let's say, the proekt 20381's Redut launcher.

It had been claimed that the 9M100 family missiles had a body diameter of 125 mm. The TLCs here seem to be much larger.

Please also see my assessment above.

sepheronx wrote:As a note, both Gorshkov and steregushi both use Redute and thus currently have the same issues. Engine issue is resolved? Which engines?

Anyway, they need to build more of these.

sepheronx wrote:The understanding is that it isn't the missiles that are the problem but the guidance/tracking system. Since it was multiple of missiles of each type that failed.  Which ones is Steregushi using?

Good to know engine solution has been worked out.

The understanding is that it isn't the missiles that are the problem but the guidance/tracking system. Since it was multiple of missiles of each type that failed.

Standard Redut missiles used in other ships have no problems.

hoom wrote:

The understanding is that it isn't the missiles that are the problem but the guidance/tracking system. Since it was multiple of missiles of each type that failed.

This is the big confusion for me too
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sepheronx wrote:Papa, read this:
https://m.lenta.ru/articles/2016/08/18/front_rabot/

It seems to state Palmas antey has issues with everything, but I am assuming its bullshit. 9m96 being bad performer, 40n6 not in service, etc. But it leads me to believe being garbage journalism cause 9m96 was in service for years and 40n6 was tested years ago as well.

It talks about issue with redut and shtil

Except 9m100 is an IR missile that probably doesn't require guidance & I've not seen any suggestion that the Puma gun firecontrol radar is capable of working with AA missiles so the credibility is low in my opinion

So the 9M100 and such are working as intended.

sepheronx wrote:After doing a bit of reading and even reading nationalreview (blah...) it turns out that the issue isn't all the missiles, but just 1 missile type - 9M96 missile.  Essentially it is having trouble with long range missiles and all other ones (less than 150km range) are working as intended so they blame the Fakel plant which makes the missile, hence why they never mentioned the radar but the missile itself.  Makes sense.  So the 9M100 and such are working as intended.

hoom wrote:.........
Possibly 20380 wasn't ever really intended to be able to properly use 9m96 but they gave it a whirl anyway hoping for something like 30km effective?
...........

Air defense missile system 3K96 "POLIMENT-redoubt" ( "redoubt") The development of modern air defense systems for the ships of the Russian Navy "Poliment-Redoute" is the NGO "Almaz-Antey".
SEC "Altair", being a parent in GSKB Concern PVO "Almaz Antey "on the complexes and sea-based systems, in 2012, continued the work begun in the structure of" MNIIRE "Altair".
First of all, the ROC and the participation in the supply of production samples on the main themes NTC - ed. 3K96 and SAM "Calm 1".
In the onshore SAM 50R6 "Vityaz" uses tezhe missiles that SAM "Redoubt" ( "Poliment-Redoute"), this anti-aircraft missiles 9M96 and 9M100.
In 2011, products 9M96 and 9M100 shot S-400 air defense system "Redoubt".
In both cases, the target acquisition homing (GOS) was broke, and the target were not affected.
As noted in 2011, the development of modern air defense systems for the ships of the Russian Navy "Poliment-Redoubt" was behind schedule.
The lag was due to the shortage of engineers in the design bureau of the group. Instead of a complex maritime best design minds occupied land.
This situation has led to a delay in the construction of new Russian frigate project 22350.
The main difficulties arose in the establishment of the radar "Poliment" station with a phased antenna array (PAA) and the Marine version 9M96 missiles, which should become the main weapon SAM "Redoubt".
Together, these two systems constitute complex defense "Poliment-Redoute."
All 2012 Concern PVO "Almaz-Antey" arguments homing anti-aircraft missiles 9M96 "to mind" and held their own ground tests.
In October 2012 the Department of Defense suffered indefinitely test ship antiaircraft missile system (SAM) "Redoubt" which must arm a new generation of ships.
In 2012, shot three times - twice with a corvette of the Baltic Fleet "savvy" 20380 to the sea, and once with a ground installation.
All launches were not successful, in August 2012 the launch took place in normal mode, but the homing head is unable to acquire a target, and the missile self-destructed.
According to the test results, the 1st Central Research Institute of the Ministry of Defence presented the conclusion complex underfulfilled needs to eliminate a plurality of drawbacks.
Naval experts particularly unhappy rocket under the symbol 9M96M and radar "Furke-2." In SAM "Redoubt" do not have a radar target detection.
This problem is solved "Furke" general ship radar detection at the time of the test is not sufficiently effective.
Theme 3K96 in 2012, made ​​significant amount of work that allows you to speak with confidence about the end of the test in 2013, ed. 3K96-3 on ships 20380 and putting samples of the products of the Navy, as well as carrying out preliminary bench tests, the supply of sample Vol. 3K96-2 on the lead ship of the project 22350, its assembly and testing.
At the head of the project 22350 frigate "Admiral Gorshkov" test "Reduta" will begin no earlier than 2014, upon the ship's readiness.
In this set of 9M96 missiles and 9M100 9M96D ready for testing. On the frigates of Project 22350 will be installed 4 module SAM "Poliment-Redoute" to 8 cells in each (a total of 32 cells for SAM).
During the briefing, which took place in the framework of the MAKS-2013, the general director of Concern PVO "Almaz-Antey" said that testing of the new SAM system was interrupted in 2012 due to a fire in the TFR "savvy" (20380).
This year the ship after repairs arrived for the resumption of SAM tests. He also said that at the head of the project 22350 frigate "Admiral Gorshkov" test "Reduta" will begin no earlier than 2014, upon the ship's readiness.
In this set of 9M96 missiles and 9M100 9M96D ready for testing.
Источник: http://bastion-opk.ru/poliment-redut/ ОВТ «ОРУЖИЕ ОТЕЧЕСТВА» A.V.Karpenko

Viktor wrote:
It seems that we have the answer to the question whether 9M96 is ok or not  

George1 wrote: