Typhoon MRAP family vehicles

You are wrong GarryB. The data offered in the links about the engine power is a parameter of the engine, not a variable. You really do not know about engines.

The info about weight and engine power of the four links is quite clear:

Typhoons 6x6:
21 tons 450 hp Typhoon-K
24 tons 450 hp Typhoon-U
20 tons 450 hp Kamaz 63969

Typhoons 4x4
12 tons 350 hp Kamaz 53949

While the Typhoons 6x6 clearly have the same engine and likely share the same chasis, it is very clear that the chasis and the engine of the Typhoon 4x4 is different.

The vehicles of the Typhoon family are being designed on two different platforms, one for 6x6 vehicles and the other for 4x4 vehicles.

Equipped with a "Armata" X-shaped diesel engine Chelyabinsk-85 A-3. It has a switching mode power limit from 1200 to HP 1500-1600

Post 494

https://www.russiadefence.net/t1854p475-official-armata-discussion-thread-1?highlight=armata+engine

From this source:

http://argumenti.ru/army/n398/271027

The vehicles of the Typhoon family are being designed on two different platforms, one for 6x6 vehicles and the other for 4x4 vehicles.

The whole purpose of the exercise is standardisation/unification... it makes no sense to have several different types of engine/transmission etc etc in one unit.

Have you not heard of an engine governor? ie limiting the power of an engine to improve fuel efficiency or engine life or both?

Why not put the same engine in both vehicles with the smaller vehicle having an engine governor to limit its power to 350hp, and no governor on the heavier vehicles allowing them to develop 450hp... it means all the vehicles in the unit have the same engine... same transmission, same parts.

Engine power is limited by the transmission... you can put any engine in a car you like but if the transmission is limited to 400hp then all the engines you put in that car will be 400hp or less... if they are more you blow the transmission and you walk everywhere.

As i read about tayphoon K 4x4 it use Cummins engine, not russian?

You are not understanding the issue GarryB. The parameter of engine power for an engine of 450 hp limited to 350 hp is still 450, not 350. If this would be the case, the source would say that the Typhoon 4x4 has a 450 hp engine.

The problem with all this, is that what we see happening with the Typhoon family, is not a vehicle platform like in the case of the armata, kurganets, bumerang or BMD-4M. Then nothing makes think that it will be Typhoon divisions, like can be standard combat divisions with armata, kurganets, bumerang or BMD-4M based vehicles.

In the Typhoon family we have adopted two armoured trucks (1st and 2nd links) of mid size that can work to transport people or material in contested/combat areas. In the case of the Typhoon-U there are two variants (3rd and 4th links) that are very close, one more oriented to transport of people and the other more adapted to transport of cargo.

We also have another 6x6 APC like variant (5th link) that has not been adopted, and that would be by size fairly redundant with the bumerang. It makes very difficult to see this third variant adopted. And we have one smaller 4x4 variant (6th link) with some recent change, that also has not been adopted, and that seems more oriented to export markets or to internal security forces.

http://www.military-today.com/apc/kamaz_taifun.htm (Kamaz 63968)
http://www.military-today.com/apc/ural_taifun.htm (Ural 63095 and(?) Ural 63099)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alabino220415part1-20.jpg (Ural 63095)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ural-63099_armored_vehicle-2012-04.jpg (Ural 63099)
http://www.military-today.com/apc/kamaz_63969.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc/kamaz_53949.htm

As i read about tayphoon K 4x4 it use Cummins engine, not russian?

There is no chance it could enter Russian military service with a foreign engine like that.

You are not understanding the issue. The parameter of engine power for an engine of 450 hp limited to 350 hp is still 450, not 350. If this would be the case, the source would say that the Typhoon 4x4 has a 450 hp engine.

Over time engines are improved and their engine power is increased.

The engine power rating of an engine can therefore change up or down... putting a turbo or supercharger on it boosts engine power.

The engine rating reflects the amount of power it puts out.

Put a governor on it and the engine power rating is reduced... that is what governors do.

Put a supercharger on it and the power is increased... that is what superchargers do too.

Then nothing makes think that it will be Typhoon divisions, like can be standard combat divisions with armata, kurganets, bumerang or BMD-4M based vehicles.

Entire recon divisions could be created, and I suspect for low intensity conflicts a light wheeled division with high mobility and good fire power and excellent communications and support would be very useful.

We also have another 6x6 APC like variant (5th link) that has not been adopted, and that would be by size fairly redundant with the bumerang. It makes very difficult to see this third variant adopted. And we have one smaller 4x4 variant (6th link) with some recent change, that also has not been adopted, and that seems more oriented to export markets or to internal security forces.

I have yet to see a proper revelation of the Typhoon family with a full range of vehicle types... the turrets will be standard so the IFV turret on an Armata and an APC turret on an Armata and a MBT turret should be pretty much the same across the various vehicle families.

GarryB wrote:

As i read about tayphoon K 4x4 it use Cummins engine, not russian?

There is no chance it could enter Russian military service with a foreign engine like that.
..........

It does use Cummings engine and that is also the reason it never entered service with Russian military.

It's also the reason why VDV is getting modified and localised version that we posted about recently.

GarryB wrote:

You are not understanding the issue. The parameter of engine power for an engine of 450 hp limited to 350 hp is still 450, not 350. If this would be the case, the source would say that the Typhoon 4x4 has a 450 hp engine.

Over time engines are improved and their engine power is increased.

The engine power rating of an engine can therefore change up or down... putting a turbo or supercharger on it boosts engine power.

The engine rating reflects the amount of power it puts out.

Put a governor on it and the engine power rating is reduced... that is what governors do.

Put a supercharger on it and the power is increased... that is what superchargers do too.

Again, this is not right, unless you talk about to tamper engines. Something that the Russian Armed Forces obviously will not do.

The changes in engines that affect to this parameter include changes in the dimenssions of a number of components that lead to have a different engine.

To include properly a turbo in a engine is only possible if the rest of the engine is designed to resist it. If the engine is designed to have a turbo, the design of the rest of the components is done taking it into account. And if the engine is designed to work without a turbo, the design of the rest of the components is done also taking it into account. An engine for use installed in vehicles, never is designed to include late changes, is designed for an optimized work under determined conditions.

An engine for use installed in vehicles, never is designed to include late changes, is designed for an optimized work under a determined conditions.

Never?

So over time as the weight of the vehicle increases or requirements for fuel consumption change they need to develop a whole new engine from scratch?

It does use Cummings engine and that is also the reason it never entered service with Russian military.

Interesting sentence... start with something I didn't say and end with something I did.

I know it has a foreign engine and as I said... it wont enter Russian military service with a foreign engine... they are not the Russian Navy.

I surely hope the engine for the Typhoon K 4x4 is interchangeable with a Russian made one otherwise I dont see the point in developing these vehicles in the first place if they cant compete with Russian army procurement, unless these vehicles were developed for export

GarryB wrote:........

It does use Cummings engine and that is also the reason it never entered service with Russian military.

Interesting sentence... start with something I didn't say and end with something I did.

I know it has a foreign engine and as I said... it wont enter Russian military service with a foreign engine... they are not the Russian Navy.

Hold your horses there cowboy.  You never said it. You quoted it. See:

GarryB wrote:

As i read about tayphoon K 4x4 it use Cummins engine, not russian?

There is no chance it could enter Russian military service with a foreign engine like that.
..........

https://www.russiadefence.net/t3291p75-typhoon-mrap-family-vechiles#173265


Next time you quote something don't leave out the name of the guy who you quote. Minimizes the confusion.

New Tigr being tested including with a 30mm cannon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGZvdb1tp3Y

GarryB wrote:

An engine for use installed in vehicles, never is designed to include late changes, is designed for an optimized work under a determined conditions.

Never?

So over time as the weight of the vehicle increases or requirements for fuel consumption change they need to develop a whole new engine from scratch?

It does use Cummings engine and that is also the reason it never entered service with Russian military.

Interesting sentence... start with something I didn't say and end with something I did.

I know it has a foreign engine and as I said... it wont enter Russian military service with a foreign engine... they are not the Russian Navy.

Never. This is not something considered. Engines are not modified except by engine tampers, or for experimental use in laboratories. As the maximum engine power is a parameter of the engine, the maximum weight is makerd by other parameter of the vehicle, and both must agree. Sometimes it is possible to replace the engine if it is compatible. Nothing else.

If you know the Typhoons 4x4 had a not Russian engine, how you said that all the Typhoons have or must have the same engine? Obviously the Typhoons 6x6 have been adopted and have Russian engines.

If you know the Typhoons 4x4 had a not Russian engine, how you said that all the Typhoons have or must have the same engine? Obviously the Typhoons 6x6 have been adopted and have Russian engines.

The fact that that vehicle has a foreign engine pretty clearly shows it was never part of the Typhoon family that will be adopted by the Russian Army... or do you think the Sukhoi design bureau will build PAK FAs with US engines too?

We have not seen the full family of Armata/Kurganets/Boomerang/Typhoon, I fact I have yet to see mention of a definitive member of the Typhoon family that is genuine.

We have seen lots of MRAPs and trucks and other vehicles called Typhoon, from several vehicle manufacturers... but then we saw the Mi-28A well before we were shown the Ka-50... mainly because the Ka-50 won the competition to enter service so the Mi-28 was revealed to improve its export prospects.

I suspect it is the same with this Cummins powered vehicle... no chance of domestic service so put it out there and sell it on the export market.

There is a chance that they might not even develop the light wheeled family of vehicles and just use Boomerang as the lightest army vehicle family and use BMD variants for the VDV because they can be air dropped and have good cross country mobility for the rear areas the VDV is likely to operate in.

Next time you quote something don't leave out the name of the guy who you quote. Minimizes the confusion.

If you had been reading the discussion you would know who said it, and the fact that I was quoting makes it clear what I am referring to and at the same time that I did not say it.

My script blocker disables most of the functions on this forum so I type in my quote Html... I would have thought that was pretty obvious when I misspell qutoe...

VDV Tyrpoon with the new combat module


http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2076261.html







will it replace Tigr?

Tigr is an MRAP type vehicle, whereas this is probably more suited to proper military unit use.

In other words the Tigr is a UAV jeep that has been adapted to survive mine damage, whereas this vehicle is more a BRDM-3 designed to operate with armoured vehicles in combat.

The main difference is that this small vehicle will be a part of a family of vehicles including 4 and 6 wheeled versions with roles from MBT and IFV and APC through to engineer and air defence and artillery and ambulance, as well as EW, and ATGM, and command vehicles... etc etc.

Armored Car K63968 "Typhoon-K": successfully passed tests at undermining

According to our blog Deputy Director for Development JSC "Plant of special vehicles" (SAR, Naberezhnye Chelny) Aleksandr Matveev, armored modular vehicle K63968 "Typhoon-K", made in 2013 the preliminary tests, it has been successfully tested at undermining and shelling.



http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2174256.html

Couple more pics of the 30mm Typhoon-K from http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2175630.html


Such gloriously outrageous firepower

A brief analisys of the 4x4 "Typhoon-K", made by Armyrecognition (technical specs included)

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Russia has developed new 4x4 armoured vehicle K4386 Typhoon VDV for Russian airborne troops.

Russian defense industry has developed the new 4x4 armoured vehicle K4386 "Typhoon-VDV" especially designed for airborne troops. According some Russian military sources, the design of the vehicle is made by the Company OJSC a subdivision of the Russian Company Kamaz.


The new K4386 "Typhoon-VDV" was developed under a contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense to provide a new 4x4 armoured vehicle for Russian airborne troops. according Russian military sources, the first prototype of the vehicle is based on the K53949 which was unveiled some few years ago.

October 4, 2016, the Russian Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST) has released a video showing a first prototype of the K4386 "Typhoon-VDV". The Russian airborne troops expected to complete the first field trial tests at the end of 2018.

According to the manufacturer, the K4386 was developed in less than 6 months and could be tested before the end of the year. The vehicle has a weight of 11 tons and can carried from six to eight military personnel.

On the video released by the CAST, the K4386 seems to be fitted with a remotely operated weapon station armed with a 30mm cannon. A 7.62mm coaxial machine gun is mounted to the left side of the main armament. Three smoke grenade discharger are integrated in the armour of the turret on each side at the front of the turret.

The K4386 offers a protection for the crew Level 3 STANAG 4569, against firing of small arms 7.62x51mm and mine explosion blast of 8kg under the wheels.

The K4386 is motorized with a 350 horsepower Diesel engine coupled to an automatic transmission. It can run at a maximum road speed of 105 km/h with a maximum cruising range of 1,200 km.


Source: http://www.armyrecognition.com/october_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/russia_has_developed_new_4x4_armoured_vehicle_k4386_typhoon_vdv_for_russian_airborne_troops_11210162.html

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What I can tell about this is that the 30mm autocannon module on the Typhoon is more modern than the one on the Tigr.

Interesting article about the upcoming tests of the 4x4 Typhoon-K MRAP with some technical info (made by Army Recognition)

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Russian Company ZSA will test anti-mine capabilities of new K4386 Typhoon 4x4 MRAP

JSC Special Automobiles Plant (Russian acronym: ZSA, Zavod Spetsialnyh Avtomobiley) will test the anti-mine capabilities of its newest K4386 Typhoon (Taifun) mine-resistant ambush-protected (MRAP) vehicles intended for Russia`s Airborne Forces (VDV, Vozdushno-Desantnie Voyska), according to the Business Online newspaper.


Several years ago, the plant launched the final stage of the K4386 development. The relevant airdropping tests were scheduled for September 2016 to be followed by anti-mine and protection trials. The experts of Business Online point out that ZSA has met all requirements issued by VDV. According to the pundits, such kind of collaboration may be profitable for both sides.

The K4386 MRAP vehicle`s anti-mine capabilities are to be tested before the year-end, the newspaper said. Taifun-VDV has received a remote controlled weapon station (RCWS); therefore, the manufacturer has already defined the design of the armoured car. The vehicle is being developed under a contract signed with Russia`s Ministry of Defense (MoD) in November 2015, according to Business Online. It should be noted that K4386 was originally intended for the VDV troops. Therefore, the demonstrator of the armoured car was produced within five months.

At the same time, the development of a MRAP vehicles for the service was announced by KAMAZ (the company has ceased the designing of armoured vehicles) several years ago. In February 2013, then-acting Commander-in-Chief of VDV, Colonel General Vladimir Shamanov said that KAMAZ has a dual-axis heavy car intended for the Airborne Forces. The officer was supposed to have mentioned the K53949 (unofficially named Taifunyonok). It is believed to have become the basic model of the new MRAP vehicle.

"We expect that the development of the new wheeled platform for VDV will be finished at an early date. We suppose that the vehicle equipped with a combat module will have been designed by the year-end. The service will master the car," Shamanov said in late 2013. On May 16, 2016, the general informed that Russia`s defense industry had started the assembly of 4x4 wheeled armoured vehicles protected at Level 5 GOST/Level 2 STANAG 4569 (all-round protection against 7.62 mm steel core armour-piercing bullets at 30 m distance). "We are planning to get the demonstrators [of the vehicle] before the year-end in order to start the relevant operational tests and evaluation," Shamanov pointed out. According to the open sources, the factory trials of K4386 started in Spring 2016, and the military authorities highly appreciated the results achieved by the vehicle.


The new armoured vehicle for VDV should be an air-droppable one, being able to transport airborne soldiers on the battlefield and to protect them against bullets and small fragments. The vehicle has a high level of localization - 50% for the demonstrator and 70-80% for serially produced vehicles. According to the open sources, the K4386 MRAP vehicle is armoured at Level 3 (K) STANAG 4569 (all-round protection against 7.62mm hard steel/tungsten alloy armour-piercing bullets at 30 m distance). The MRAP car can withstand the explosion of 8 kg (explosive mass) anti-tank mine under its belly or any wheel (Level 3 (M) a/b STANAG 4569).

It is equipped with 14.00 R20 run-flat tires. The engine compartment of the car is reinforced with additional ceramic armour plates. K4386 can be armed with a remotely controlled 14.5 mm KPVT heavy machinegun to increase the vehicle`s self-defense capabilities. The vehicle can carried six to eight mounted soldiers. The demonstrator of the vehicle was powered by a multifuel diesel engine (350 h.p.) developed by Cummins and produced by KAMAZ under license. It is supposed to be replaced by a Russian-originated analogue under the import substitution program. The engine is coupled with an automatic transmission.

The K4386 also features an independent hydropneumatic suspension, an automatic maximum pressure override system, an air conditioning unit, and anti-blast seats (ABS). The ABSs integrated with the K4386 MRAP vehicle significantly increase the survivability of the mounted soldiers on the modern battlefield. The armoured car is supposed to receive an RCWS armed with 30 mm automatic cannon. In September 2016, the Designer General of KAMAZ, Danis Valeev said that K4386 features chassisless construction with an integral body and a weight reduced by 2 t (compared to the basic model). The editor-in-chief of the Arms Export magazine, Andrey Frolov told the Business Online newspaper that the developers are believed to use the previously gathered experience during the development of the new vehicle for the Airborne Forces.

Source: http://www.armyrecognition.com/weapons_defence_industry_military_technology_uk/russian_company_zsa_will_test_anti-mine_capabilities_of_new_k4386_typhoon_4x4_mrap_12510161.html

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BONUS!

Air droppable combat ambulance named "Linza", based on the Typhoon-K 4x4



Source:  bmpd

Armored Modular Vehicles K-63968 "Typhoon" on tests

Interview with Yakov Karpov, CEO of the Special Vehicles Company (ZSA) facility part of JSC “Remdizel”

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2436902.html

Receipt of armored vehicles K-63968 "Typhoon-K" in Nizhny Novgorod region

From Otvaga2004.

The IFV variant is absolutely brilliant. BRILLIANT.

KoTeMoRe wrote:The IFV variant is absolutely brilliant. BRILLIANT.

was he adopted?