Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Lobbyism and war propaganda in one move nothing else, US bribes many people and scares even more in believing of Putin throwing little children from their bikes and stealing lolipops.

Battalion0415, it is quite hard to understand your 'agenda' here...


The general opinion of the public in Sweden is that no one really wants to join Nato but when Russia is visiting with their submarines very close to
the capital and fly close to commercial airlines with their fighter planes without any reasons, it is Russia who pushes Sweden towards Nato.

Sweden just wants to be left alone, but if swedes are forced to chose a side, it will always be the Nato side.

No russian submarines a few miles from the capital --> No Nato membership.

richsu wrote:Battalion0415, it is quite hard to understand your 'agenda' here...


The general opinion of the public in Sweden is that no one really wants to join Nato but when Russia is visiting with their submarines very close to
the capital and fly close to commercial airlines with their fighter planes without any reasons, it is Russia who pushes Sweden towards Nato.

Sweden just wants to be left alone, but if swedes are forced to chose a side, it will always be the Nato side.

No russian submarines a few miles from the capital --> No Nato membership.

Yes, sure the russian submarines...and yes it is also the russian jets that are "aggressive" in international waters, not NATO planes constantly trying to get closer and closer to russian airspace and already have abused in incidents and were flying to close to russian airliners.

It is not Russia driving Sweden towards NATO it is traitor oligarchic Swedisch political slaves that do that, there was no submarine only warmongering and fearmongering of the stupid average citizen to justify NATO integration.

Exactly the attittude that brings Sweden closer to Nato I'm afraid.

richsu wrote:Battalion0415, it is quite hard to understand your 'agenda' here...


The general opinion of the public in Sweden is that no one really wants to join Nato but when Russia is visiting with their submarines very close to
the capital and fly close to commercial airlines with their fighter planes without any reasons, it is Russia who pushes Sweden towards Nato.

Sweden just wants to be left alone, but if swedes are forced to chose a side, it will always be the Nato side.

No russian submarines a few miles from the capital --> No Nato membership.

All the circus aside - is there any evidence that it was a Russian sub down there?
Scant few details have been released.

The problem is that Sweden has a very, very obvious anti-Russian agenda and has had one for quite some years, and if it's floating false rumours about chasing down a Russian sub - it wouldn't be the first time that it would have done so.

I remember the uproar a couple years back about how Russian planes were supposedly practising a 'bombing run' against Sweden. What actually happened, what we know, is that some 2 Su-34s or Su-30SMs (forget which) headed on a trajectory towards Swedish airspace, but then changed their course about 10-15km from Swedish airspace.

They could have been practising any kind of manuever. It could have been related to Sweden, it could have not been. It could have been anything actually, even just a normal flight bearing and course correction.

Yet the Swedish media, or Swedish MoD expects us to believe that it has some magic means of scrying, by which it was actually able to see into the cockpit and discern what the Russians were planning.
Well the only other way I guess would be to intercept and decode Russian communications - but if the Swedes had that capability, they sure as hell wouldn't let the whole world (and consenquently Russia) know about it.

This fits into the other pattern of BS I noticed recently, all the accusations of Russian military aircraft flying with their transponders off and every other means of identification, not agreeing their flight paths or informing any airspace authorities.
Well the Russian MoD recently vehemently denied such accusations.

So who's lying? My bet is on the Western NATO allies - it's in their interests to demonize the Russians as much as possible.
Conversely, it's not really in the Russian's interests to create bad PR for themselves, endanger civilian airtraffic, try and provoke Sweden into joining NATO, etc... go ahead and think for yourself.

flamming_python wrote:

richsu wrote:Battalion0415, it is quite hard to understand your 'agenda' here...


The general opinion of the public in Sweden is that no one really wants to join Nato but when Russia is visiting with their submarines very close to
the capital and fly close to commercial airlines with their fighter planes without any reasons, it is Russia who pushes Sweden towards Nato.

Sweden just wants to be left alone, but if swedes are forced to chose a side, it will always be the Nato side.

No russian submarines a few miles from the capital --> No Nato membership.

All the circus aside - is there any evidence that it was a Russian sub down there?
Scant few details have been released.

The problem is that Sweden has a very, very obvious anti-Russian agenda and has had one for quite some years, and if it's floating false rumours about chasing down a Russian sub - it wouldn't be the first time that it would have done so.

I remember the uproar a couple years back about how Russian planes were supposedly practising a 'bombing run' against Sweden. What actually happened, what we know, is that some 2 Su-34s or Su-30SMs (forget which) headed on a trajectory towards Swedish airspace, but then changed their course about 10-15km from Swedish airspace.

They could have been practising any kind of manuever. It could have been related to Sweden, it could have not been. It could have been anything actually, even just a normal flight bearing and course correction.

Yet the Swedish media, or Swedish MoD expects us to believe that it has some magic means of scrying, by which it was actually able to see into the cockpit and discern what the Russians were planning.
Well the only other way I guess would be to intercept and decode Russian communications - but if the Swedes had that capability, they sure as hell wouldn't let the whole world (and consenquently Russia) know about it.

This fits into the other pattern of BS I noticed recently, all the accusations of Russian military aircraft flying with their transponders off and every other means of identification, not agreeing their flight paths or informing any airspace authorities.
Well the Russian MoD recently vehemently denied such accusations.

So who's lying? My bet is on the Western NATO allies - it's in their interests to demonize the Russians as much as possible.
Conversely, it's not really in the Russian's interests to create bad PR for themselves, endanger civilian airtraffic, try and provoke Sweden into joining NATO, etc... go ahead and think for yourself.

I hear what you are saying and the fact is that US and their foreign politicts is'nt widely popular in Sweden. But if swedes are forced to chose side, it will be US/NATO.
If the swedish goverment claims to have evidence of a russian submarine very close to the capital, and the russian government denies it. Who do you think they will believe in? Their own government ofcourse.

I would rather see that my country (sweden, if that wasn't clear yet ) didn't chose any side and that is probably still the public opinion.

The media reporting is very one sided also, and one russian fighter jet in swedish airspace is big news while french jets (or whatever) will go unnoticed in media.

richsu wrote:Battalion0415, it is quite hard to understand your 'agenda' here...


The general opinion of the public in Sweden is that no one really wants to join Nato but when Russia is visiting with their submarines very close to
the capital and fly close to commercial airlines with their fighter planes without any reasons, it is Russia who pushes Sweden towards Nato.

Sweden just wants to be left alone, but if swedes are forced to chose a side, it will always be the Nato side.

No russian submarines a few miles from the capital --> No Nato membership.

What a crock of bullshit, the claim of 'Russian Submarines' were never actually proven out right at the time of the 'incident', and fast-forward months later and they still haven't found definitive evidence. BTW Russian planes were flying in international airspace. I

Hahahahaha... so if all these so called sightings will push Sweden into the arms of NATO, what do Swedes think the Russians are doing in their waters?

Perhaps read a book:

The Secret War Against Sweden: US and British Submarine Deception in the 1980s
By Ola Tunander
Psychology Press, 2004 - History - 358 pages

Following the stranding of a Soviet Whiskey-class submarine in 1981 on the Swedish archipelago, a series of massive submarine intrusions took place within Swedish waters.

However, the evidence for these appears to have been manipulated or simply invented. Classified documents and interviews point to covert Western, rather than Soviet activity. This is backed up by former US Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger, who stated that Western "testing" operations were carried out regularly in Swedish waters. Royal Navy submarine captains have also admitted to top-secret operations.

Ola Tunander's revelations make it clear that the United States and Britain ran a "secret war" in Swedish waters. The number of Swedes perceiving the Soviet Union as a direct threat increased from 5-10 per cent in 1980 to 45 per cent in 1983. This Anglo-American "secret war" was aimed at exerting political influence over Sweden. It was a risky enterprise, but perhaps the most successful covert operation of the entire Cold War.

But of course the wonderful and pure and clean NATO and western powers would never want Sweden to give up neutrality and become a front line for a new cold war... would they?

Very simply they did it before, why wouldn't they do it now?

US forces have repeatedly violated the air and sea space of dozens of countries and has no respect for sovereignty... do you think your waters are sacred... do you think they spy on everyone except you?

Go ahead and Join NATO... it is not as if Sweden has been neutral in the past... so nothing really changes on that score.

GarryB wrote:Hahahahaha... so if all these so called sightings will push Sweden into the arms of NATO, what do Swedes think the Russians are doing in their waters?

That's what most people ask themselves and thats mainly the reason why most people dont want to join Nato.
The debate is so one-sided in media as I said before, all the media just write about the "russian threat".

The threat from Nato seems more imminent, as far as I am concerned. If something were to happen in the east, Nato would just use our country anyway.
If we joined now, at least it would seem voluntarily

The problem is that when the nuclear armed tactical missiles start hitting targets if you are part of NATO you become a target for the Russians.

If you keep neutral they are unlikely to waste warheads on your territory.

I doubt they would risk invading your country... why would they bother?

If there is a WWIII the Russians will largely be trying to take out major NATO assets before they can be used against them.

But if your country wants to add your cities and military sites to Russias target list... don't let me try to change your mind.

to be honest if WWIII does occur I do hope Russia launches a few missiles at New Zealand... there was lots of talk about very rich Americans buying property here in case there are real problems in the US and the poor rise up against the rich... I don't know why they would think they were safe here... the rich taste good...

richsu wrote:

GarryB wrote:Hahahahaha... so if all these so called sightings will push Sweden into the arms of NATO, what do Swedes think the Russians are doing in their waters?

That's what most people ask themselves and thats mainly the reason why most people dont want to join Nato.
The debate is so one-sided in media as I said before, all the media just write about the "russian threat".

The threat from Nato seems more imminent, as far as I am concerned. If something were to happen in the east, Nato would just use our country anyway.
If we joined now, at least it would seem voluntarily  

Swedes have always been one-sided and are easily gullible by MSM. Why do you think the Swedish Academy awarded Nobel Barack with the Peace Prize? What a bunch of BS.
There's a saying in my country (which rhymes): " Los suecos son chuecos", meaning the swedes are turncoats.

Kyo wrote:
Swedes have always been one-sided and are easily gullible by MDM.

Melodic Death Metal??

AlfaT8 wrote:

Kyo wrote:
Swedes have always been one-sided and are easily gullible by MDM.

Melodic Death Metal??

Just edited it. Typo error. It's MSM: mainstream media.

Kyo wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:

Kyo wrote:
Swedes have always been one-sided and are easily gullible by MDM.

Melodic Death Metal??

Just edited it. Typo error. It's MSM: mainstream media.

I know, but i couldn't resist.

Kyo wrote:

richsu wrote:

GarryB wrote:Hahahahaha... so if all these so called sightings will push Sweden into the arms of NATO, what do Swedes think the Russians are doing in their waters?

That's what most people ask themselves and thats mainly the reason why most people dont want to join Nato.
The debate is so one-sided in media as I said before, all the media just write about the "russian threat".

The threat from Nato seems more imminent, as far as I am concerned. If something were to happen in the east, Nato would just use our country anyway.
If we joined now, at least it would seem voluntarily  

Swedes have always been one-sided and are easily gullible by MSM. Why do you think the Swedish Academy awarded Nobel Barack with the Peace Prize? What a bunch of BS.
There's a saying in my country (which rhymes): " Los suecos son chuecos", meaning the swedes are turncoats.

Swedish academy decides who gets the Nobel peace prize...?

richsu wrote:

Kyo wrote:

richsu wrote:

GarryB wrote:Hahahahaha... so if all these so called sightings will push Sweden into the arms of NATO, what do Swedes think the Russians are doing in their waters?

That's what most people ask themselves and thats mainly the reason why most people dont want to join Nato.
The debate is so one-sided in media as I said before, all the media just write about the "russian threat".

The threat from Nato seems more imminent, as far as I am concerned. If something were to happen in the east, Nato would just use our country anyway.
If we joined now, at least it would seem voluntarily  

Swedes have always been one-sided and are easily gullible by MSM. Why do you think the Swedish Academy awarded Nobel Barack with the Peace Prize? What a bunch of BS.
There's a saying in my country (which rhymes): " Los suecos son chuecos", meaning the swedes are turncoats.

Swedish academy decides who gets the Nobel peace prize...?

Yes, a corrupt shithole of country and gremium decides and gives "Nobel Peace Prize" to Obama, Shimon Perez who is a terrorist in the true sence and Menachim Begin another true zionist terrorist who bombed a hotel and killed dozens of people and he recieved nobel "peace" prize. This prize only shows you who licks the wests ass and those of zionazis.

Werewolf wrote:

richsu wrote:

Kyo wrote:

richsu wrote:

GarryB wrote:Hahahahaha... so if all these so called sightings will push Sweden into the arms of NATO, what do Swedes think the Russians are doing in their waters?

That's what most people ask themselves and thats mainly the reason why most people dont want to join Nato.
The debate is so one-sided in media as I said before, all the media just write about the "russian threat".

The threat from Nato seems more imminent, as far as I am concerned. If something were to happen in the east, Nato would just use our country anyway.
If we joined now, at least it would seem voluntarily  

Swedes have always been one-sided and are easily gullible by MSM. Why do you think the Swedish Academy awarded Nobel Barack with the Peace Prize? What a bunch of BS.
There's a saying in my country (which rhymes): " Los suecos son chuecos", meaning the swedes are turncoats.

Swedish academy decides who gets the Nobel peace prize...?

Yes, a corrupt shithole of country and gremium decides and gives "Nobel Peace Prize" to Obama, Shimon Perez who is a terrorist in the true sence and Menachim Begin another true zionist terrorist who bombed a hotel and killed dozens of people and he recieved nobel "peace" prize. This prize only shows you who licks the wests ass and those of zionazis.

I think you are mixing up norway with sweden here.
Norway is the country that gives the Nobel peace prize..

I did not say anything about norway.

Ok. I understood it as you thought sweden had anything to do with the Nobel peace prize. They dont.

richsu wrote:Ok. I understood it as you thought sweden had anything to do with the Nobel peace prize. They dont.

After Henry Kissinger and Barack Obama, I suggest the Norwegian Nobel Committee award next Peace Prize to Arseniy Yatsenyuk and Benjamin Netanyahu, jointly. On behalf of that great Norwegian tycoon that was Alfred Nobel.

Kyo wrote:

richsu wrote:Ok. I understood it as you thought sweden had anything to do with the Nobel peace prize. They dont.

After Henry Kissinger and Barack Obama, I suggest the Norwegian Nobel Committee award next Peace Prize to Arseniy Yatsenyuk and Benjamin Netanyahu, jointly. On behalf of that great Norwegian tycoon that was Alfred Nobel.

Putin might be a strong candidate also.

richsu wrote:

Kyo wrote:

richsu wrote:Ok. I understood it as you thought sweden had anything to do with the Nobel peace prize. They dont.

After Henry Kissinger and Barack Obama, I suggest the Norwegian Nobel Committee award next Peace Prize to Arseniy Yatsenyuk and Benjamin Netanyahu, jointly. On behalf of that great Norwegian tycoon that was Alfred Nobel.

Putin might be a strong candidate also.

richsu wrote:

Kyo wrote:

richsu wrote:Ok. I understood it as you thought sweden had anything to do with the Nobel peace prize. They dont.

After Henry Kissinger and Barack Obama, I suggest the Norwegian Nobel Committee award next Peace Prize to Arseniy Yatsenyuk and Benjamin Netanyahu, jointly. On behalf of that great Norwegian tycoon that was Alfred Nobel.

Putin might be a strong candidate also.

LMFAO.

NATO Membership Debated in Finnish Elections

HELSINKI — Finn President Sauli Niinistö has described future NATO membership for the non-aligned Nordic country as an "available option," but insists that any move to join would require a national referendum.

The commander in chief of Finland's armed forces, Niinistö likened the constitutional process and roadmap needed to apply for NATO membership to that of Finland's formal application to join the European Union in the early 1990s.

NATO membership has surfaced as a hot topic among political parties and the Finnish electorate as Finland heads to fresh parliamentary elections in mid-April.

"At this time no party leader is advocating NATO membership but, on the other hand, all are considering the possibility," said Niinistö.

Finland's deepening defense relationship with Sweden has raised the prospect of a joint leap by the two neighbors into NATO at some stage. However, discussions between the two states on establishing a bilateral defense pact so far have not mentioned support for such a strategy.

The strengthening long-term relationship between Finland and NATO was aired during talks here between NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg and Finnish Prime Minister Alexander Stubb on March 5.

The meeting covered significant neighborhood events, including Russia strengthening its military presence in the High North and the Baltic Sea areas; the fallout from the regional instability caused by the Kremlin's actions in Ukraine; NATO's role in enhancing security and stability in the Baltic Sea area; and future cooperation between Finland and NATO.

"We reaffirmed our commitment to the development of the Finland-NATO partnership cooperation in which we already have a long history behind us. International security and defense policy cooperation is crucial to Finland; it complements our own defense in an important way. NATO partnership offers the best opportunities and concrete added value to the development of our national defense," Stubb said.

Stoltenberg also held meetings, during the visit to Helsinki, with Finland's Foreign Affairs Minister Erkki Tuomioja and Defense Minister Carl Haglund, as well as representatives of the Finnish legislature's parliamentary Defense and Foreign Affairs committees.

As evidence of Finland's deepening cooperation with NATO, the armed forces is engaged in a series of crisis management exercises with the alliance and other Partnership for Peace countries. Scheduled to run to March 10, the NATO CMX (Crisis Management Exercise) 2015 weeklong exercises also include contributions from Sweden, Ukraine, Japan and Australia.

NATO CMX 2015 is centered on a fictitious scenario in which a military conflict erupts between two distant states with consequent humanitarian and maritime security implications.