Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

Singular_Transform wrote:.........
US invested lot of money to destroy the economical capabilities of syria.

Destroyed money.

Who gives a crap about USA in Syria?

I am talking about Russia.

KiloGolf wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:parade uselessly around the fringes of HATO nations.

hato?
I know, both keys are close.

as in HATE-O.... do I really have to spell it out?

PapaDragon wrote:

Singular_Transform wrote:.........
US invested lot of money to destroy the economical capabilities of syria.

Destroyed money.

Who gives a crap about USA in Syria?

I am talking about Russia.

The war in Syria has no economical benefit for the US population.

The war in syria has same benefit for the Russian population, only because the US made a completely senseless military campaign .

It is like if two worker bring two stick to fight with each other in the workplace because of high testosterone level.
The net result will be worst than without the fight with each other.

In individual level the outcome can be positive, but on high level there is negative average benefit.

So, say that the military / war is a negative sum game.

No one cares about the UK except the British themselves and perhaps the Argentinians (half of Arg oligarchy doesn't care anyway so it's a partial assessment).

In groupie configuration the UK is a serious nuisance. Take Big Brother out and they're just a stretch of depleted land on the sea. Big Brother falls, the whole financial system keeping Britain afloat also falls and they'll be worse off.....much much worse - and like a chameleon change tune given new realities.

Anyway the point being is that Britain is not the standard, the Americans are. Unless it's a contest of which fallen empire can shit the bed worse.

ATLASCUB wrote:No one cares about the UK except the British themselves and perhaps the Argentinians (half of Arg oligarchy doesn't care anyway so it's a partial assessment).

In groupie configuration the UK is a serious nuisance. Take Big Brother out and they're just a stretch of depleted land on the sea. Big Brother falls, the whole financial system keeping Britain afloat also falls and they'll be worse off.....much much worse - and like a chameleon change tune given new realities.

Anyway the point being is that Britain is not the standard, the Americans are. Unless it's a contest of which fallen empire can shit the bed worse.

It is a bit more complicated.

The UK economy doesn't benefiting too much from the current financial order.

It devastating the country actually.

Why did they leave that plane on board, or at least leave it on the hanger deck?

I don't think this is a real plane, but a mock up to test carrier subsystems.

JohninMK wrote:Why did they leave that plane on board, or at least leave it on the hanger deck?

Good Lord, place looks like a naval morgue of sorts.

JohninMK wrote:Why did they leave that plane on board, or at least leave it on the hanger deck?

Old file photo. Look at the weather conditions. Aircraft could have been left on ship for various reasons from training to cosmetic appearances for parade or tours.

Kuznetsov will come back "much earlier" than expected. So possibly already in 2019, instead of 2020!

http://tass.com/defense/997125

Bugger... that suggests a superficial upgrade...

GarryB wrote:Bugger... that suggests a superficial upgrade...

Could also suggests they don't want to spend to much on it and will go for a new carrier sooner than expected...

New carrier comes only after they finish Liders around 2035. First priority are two large LST ships Priboy, built in 2020-2026, then they will put all their resources in 8 Liders, which should be done in around 10 years. This is consistent with the pattern we've seen in the last 10 year funding program. Starting with corvettes in 2001, following up with frigates in 2006, Boreis in 2008 and Yasens in 2010.

And the upgrade is expected to cost 700 mio $ (+ possible increases), so it won't be superficial. They really need their flagship to work for two more decades and they have awfully a lot to do. It looks like the speed of work in Russian shipyards is increasing, as they are expanding their capacities and employing new working force. Signals for optimism after two sad decades.

Isos wrote:

GarryB wrote:Bugger... that suggests a superficial upgrade...

Could also suggests they don't want to spend to much on it and will go for a new carrier sooner than expected...

Well its actually good news, its a CV when they cut away the Granits SSM. I mean how much work can you or should you do besides overhaul of engine, arrest cables and electronis.
The ship is needed in service for many reasons, and the prospect for a new carrier sooner then later is also a positive sign.

verkhoturye51 wrote:New carrier comes only after they finish Liders around 2035. First priority are two large LST ships Priboy, built in 2020-2026, then they will put all their resources in 8 Liders, which should be done in around 10 years. This is consistent with the pattern we've seen in the last 10 year funding program. Starting with corvettes in 2001, following up with frigates in 2006, Boreis in 2008 and Yasens in 2010.

And the upgrade is expected to cost 700 mio $ (+ possible increases), so it won't be superficial. They really need their flagship to work for two more decades and they have awfully a lot to do. It looks like the speed of work in Russian shipyards is increasing, as they are expanding their capacities and employing new working force. Signals for optimism after two sad decades.  

Good text but i think a new carrier has a higher priority then Priboy or at least Leaders if the go for super Gorshkovs. I would make a guess that construction will begin by 2022-2025 and operational by 2030-2033

After Priboys, we'll get Liders, see http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2018/january-2018-navy-naval-defense-news/5861-shipyard-in-northwest-russia-to-start-building-lhd-in-2020.html

And Priboys are certain http://tass.com/defense/948625

A carrier bulding in Russia is a science fiction at the moment. Russian shipyards haven't constructed any large surface ship since Soviet union, and they are the part of military industrial complex that suffered the most. Even in the times of Soviet union, carriers and heavy cruisers were built in Mykolaiev in Ukraine. Russian shipyards have struggled even with refitting Indian carrier, which lasted ten years. They have no experience, knowledge, funds or even capacity to build such ship. Hence gradual progression from corvettes to carriers.

The only real option for Russian carrier is Russo-Indian cooperation. That's why Russians tried to sell their carrier designs to Indians, first the 100.000 ton one and the 70.000 ton one later on. But it doesn't look good.

And that's not a real problem. Russians don't need carriers that urgently. Their navy isn't as offensive as US army, and is thus based on submarines instead of carriers, since the times of Khruscev.

Supersonic anti ship missiles are pretty much Russian only at the moment... soon with scramjet technology, hypersonic missiles are going to become available... and the advantages of AWACS is clear in such a situation... AWACS requires a carrier.

Kuznetsov repairs WILL last 3 years 2018-2021, like originally planned:

They'll cost 400 mio, down from 800 mio. So Zvezdochka will only repair the ship, while modernization will be more or less limited to the works on engine - 4 boilers are to be changed and 4 overhauled.

It remains to be seen if they'll change Granit missile system with Kalibr/Onyx VLS, like promised last spring. And works on the deck should have even higher priority, so their Migs don't keep on falling in the sea like in Syria.

Well its actually good news, its a CV when they cut away the Granits SSM.

I remember seeing schematics for the Kuznetsov and anybody who thinks they can rip out the Granits and just extend the internal space for aircraft is dreaming.

The location of the Granits is not an accident... it is very well protected... understandably from external and internal explosions and problems, and is not connected to the internal hangar bay.

If they take out the Granits it is likely they will replace them with UKSK launchers with a deck surface over top that can be raised before launch.

So technically it will remain... what... a CVGN?

So Zvezdochka will only repair the ship, while modernization will be more or less limited to the works on engine - 4 boilers are to be changed and 4 overhauled.

Would like to see a propulsion replacement rather than a patch up job, but it certainly needs work on its propulsion... It would have been a nice opportunity to put in nuke propulsion to test the new units they are developing for their large cruisers and carriers... I guess it is not to be.

And works on the deck should have even higher priority, so their Migs don't keep on falling in the sea like in Syria.

That is the arrester cable gearing, and it certainly needs to be fixed... and they lost an Su-33 as well...

MOSCOW, April 23. /TASS/. A source in the Russian defense sector told TASS on April 23, 2018 that Russia’s Defense Ministry and the United Ship-Building Corporation had signed a contract on the repair of the country’s sole aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov.

More:
http://tass.com/defense/1001341

ST. PETERSBURG, April 25. /TASS/. Upgrade works on Russia’s sole aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov will begin in May and the warship will get new air defense missile systems during its modernization, Russian Navy Deputy Commander-in-Chief Viktor Bursuk said on Wednesday.

More:
http://tass.com/defense/1001753

New versions of naval TOR (smaller and longer ranged new models allow twice as many in the same volume of space) and new model Pantsir would be good...

It would be awesome if they could develop a vertical launch system for the Pantsirs that blows them up into the air like Rif with side thruster rockets to orient the missile in the direction of the target like the TOR missiles do and then fire the main solid booster in the direction of the target...

Would be interesting if they had Morfei and the two S-350 missiles ready too...

Sputnik said Pantsir will be installed.

That makes sense as Pantsir basically replaces the existing Kashtan-M.

I would assume they would also upgrade the Klintok to take the new longer range smaller missiles of the TOR-M3 system too, and of course upgrade the electronics and sensors that go with it..

BTW

The war in Syria has no economical benefit for the US population.

Actually the US taking half of Syria means Qatar can pipe gas through Iraq and Syria to Turkey and counter Russian gas sales to Europe.

Of course the US forces getting kicked out of half of Syria could allow Iran to build gas and/or oil pipes through Syria to Turkey too but Iran and Turkey are not best buddies ATM.

Of course Russia and the EU aren't best buddies either but they take their gas because it is cheaper....