Russian Navy: Status & News #4

George1 wrote:

dino00 wrote:Cruiser Sonata: atomic fleet sent for scrap

Six legendary ships and submarines will be scrapped instead of upgraded

Aleksey Ramm
Alexey Kozachenko
Bogdan Stepovoy

Several sources in the military department told Izvestia about an unexpected decision. Recycling plan to complete before the end of 2021. The most sensational will be the destruction of two heavy nuclear missile cruisers "Admiral Ushakov" and "Admiral Lazarev" project 1144 "Orlan". In addition to them, four nuclear submarines will be cut into scrap: K-448 “Daniel of Moscow”, K-221 “Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky”, K-433 “St. George the Victorious” and K-232 “Podolsk”, a source in the Main Command of the Navy said. Disposal will cost 2.7 billion rubles.

From "Kirov" to "Peter"

"Eagle" - the legend of the Navy. They are considered the largest in the world after aircraft carriers. These are the only ships in the Russian fleet with a nuclear power plant. Their range is almost unlimited. Cruisers can operate in harsh climatic conditions, including in the Arctic region.

For the Navy of the USSR and Russia, four nuclear-powered cruisers of the Orlan type were built: Admiral Ushakov (originally, Kirov), Admiral Lazarev, Admiral Nakhimov and Peter the Great. The series was built for a long time - from 1973 to 1996. Three ships strengthened the Northern Fleet, and the latter, the Admiral Lazarev, hit the Pacific. Now only one ship of this project is listed in the ranks - Peter the Great.

Projects on re-equipment of the Orlans have been discussed for a long time, but the money was allocated only under the state program of armaments for 2011–2020.

The End of the Black Prince
Three submarines of the Kalmar 667 BDR, a strategic missile submarine cruiser carrying 16 R-29R intercontinental liquid-propellant rockets and torpedoes, will be allowed into recycling. For many years the boats were the basis of the marine component of the country's nuclear triad. Light body "Squid" has a characteristic hump behind the fence of the cabin, closing the rocket mines, exceeding in its dimensions durable body. The fleet will remain two project submarines - K-44 Ryazan and BS-129 Orenburg.

The K-448 “Daniil Moskovsky” submarine of Project 671 “Pike” was the main multipurpose submarine of the Navy in the 1980–1990s with torpedo armament. In the fleet of the project boat were considered successful for their quietness, performance characteristics and reliability - for all the time of operation they have not had a single accident. In the NATO countries, nuclear-powered icebreakers have been nicknamed the “Black Prince” for their elegant hull lines.

Full article
https://iz.ru/868993/aleksei-ramm-aleksei-kozachenko-bogdan-stepovoi/kreiserova-sonata-atomnyi-flot-otpraviat-v-util

With all this recent news about the Navy it looks like they made up their minds about what they want.

all logic decisions for 2 inactive Kirov class cruisers, the one left Victor III class sub and 3 Delta III SSBNs

George1 wrote:

The Navy will not lose in its combat power, since the dismantled ships and submarines will be replaced with new ones, military expert Dmitry Boltenkov told Izvestia.

Full article
https://iz.ru/868993/aleksei-ramm-aleksei-kozachenko-bogdan-stepovoi/kreiserova-sonata-atomnyi-flot-otpraviat-v-util

Truck wrote:

George1 wrote:

dino00 wrote:Cruiser Sonata: atomic fleet sent for scrap

Six legendary ships and submarines will be scrapped instead of upgraded

Aleksey Ramm
Alexey Kozachenko
Bogdan Stepovoy

Several sources in the military department told Izvestia about an unexpected decision. Recycling plan to complete before the end of 2021. The most sensational will be the destruction of two heavy nuclear missile cruisers "Admiral Ushakov" and "Admiral Lazarev" project 1144 "Orlan". In addition to them, four nuclear submarines will be cut into scrap: K-448 “Daniel of Moscow”, K-221 “Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky”, K-433 “St. George the Victorious” and K-232 “Podolsk”, a source in the Main Command of the Navy said. Disposal will cost 2.7 billion rubles.

From "Kirov" to "Peter"

"Eagle" - the legend of the Navy. They are considered the largest in the world after aircraft carriers. These are the only ships in the Russian fleet with a nuclear power plant. Their range is almost unlimited. Cruisers can operate in harsh climatic conditions, including in the Arctic region.

For the Navy of the USSR and Russia, four nuclear-powered cruisers of the Orlan type were built: Admiral Ushakov (originally, Kirov), Admiral Lazarev, Admiral Nakhimov and Peter the Great. The series was built for a long time - from 1973 to 1996. Three ships strengthened the Northern Fleet, and the latter, the Admiral Lazarev, hit the Pacific. Now only one ship of this project is listed in the ranks - Peter the Great.

Projects on re-equipment of the Orlans have been discussed for a long time, but the money was allocated only under the state program of armaments for 2011–2020.

The End of the Black Prince
Three submarines of the Kalmar 667 BDR, a strategic missile submarine cruiser carrying 16 R-29R intercontinental liquid-propellant rockets and torpedoes, will be allowed into recycling. For many years the boats were the basis of the marine component of the country's nuclear triad. Light body "Squid" has a characteristic hump behind the fence of the cabin, closing the rocket mines, exceeding in its dimensions durable body. The fleet will remain two project submarines - K-44 Ryazan and BS-129 Orenburg.

The K-448 “Daniil Moskovsky” submarine of Project 671 “Pike” was the main multipurpose submarine of the Navy in the 1980–1990s with torpedo armament. In the fleet of the project boat were considered successful for their quietness, performance characteristics and reliability - for all the time of operation they have not had a single accident. In the NATO countries, nuclear-powered icebreakers have been nicknamed the “Black Prince” for their elegant hull lines.

Full article
https://iz.ru/868993/aleksei-ramm-aleksei-kozachenko-bogdan-stepovoi/kreiserova-sonata-atomnyi-flot-otpraviat-v-util

With all this recent news about the Navy it looks like they made up their minds about what they want.

all logic decisions for 2 inactive Kirov class cruisers, the one left Victor III class sub and 3 Delta III SSBNs

There are 2 active Victor III class submarines more.
Do you know 4 of the 6 mentioned (with strong mistakes) were decommissioned by 2017?
Based on what would make sense the decommission of the other 2?

Vladimir79 wrote:

George1 wrote:
The Navy will not lose in its combat power, since the dismantled ships and submarines will be replaced with new ones, military expert Dmitry Boltenkov told Izvestia.
Full article
https://iz.ru/868993/aleksei-ramm-aleksei-kozachenko-bogdan-stepovoi/kreiserova-sonata-atomnyi-flot-otpraviat-v-util

This military expert is laughable if he thinks renovating old warships means replacing them with new ones.

George1 wrote:

is there any plan for modernization of Delta class subs or there was in the past??? since they are decommissioned the logic says that will be scrapped
Is there any rule that says if a submarine is decommissioned before 1-2 years, that it will be modernized for sure?

There is only one Victor III class submarine in service, the K-448 was in reserve for years and now article says that it will not be upgraded. Dont say me now that a class of SSNs with 1 left has any future in Russian Navy since new Yasen class is entering the fleet

Tsavo Lion wrote:
What do u mean? He means those ships & subs will be replaced by new 1s, so the VMF combat power won't decrease.
But IMO they could offer to sell the CGNs "as is" instead to India or China, $aving on dismantling. They have plenty of years left in them, since 2 of their sister ships r being upgraded & kept in commission. But perhaps the whole point is for some companies to make $ on dismantling & for the VMF to use them for cannibalization.

There are no new cruisers that are replacing Ushakov and Lazarev.

Tsavo Lion wrote:

There are no new cruisers that are replacing Ushakov and Lazarev.

They were in reserve awaiting refits for so long that no1 really missed them, except Russian patriots & VMF fans.
Perhaps the only way to keep the youngest 2 of them is to get rid of the 2 older 1s, $aving on their refit & maintenance/ops.  For the price of 1, they could get 2-3 smaller ships that can be based in any port.

George1 wrote:

Truck wrote:

George1 wrote:

dino00 wrote:Cruiser Sonata: atomic fleet sent for scrap

Six legendary ships and submarines will be scrapped instead of upgraded

Aleksey Ramm
Alexey Kozachenko
Bogdan Stepovoy

Several sources in the military department told Izvestia about an unexpected decision. Recycling plan to complete before the end of 2021. The most sensational will be the destruction of two heavy nuclear missile cruisers "Admiral Ushakov" and "Admiral Lazarev" project 1144 "Orlan". In addition to them, four nuclear submarines will be cut into scrap: K-448 “Daniel of Moscow”, K-221 “Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky”, K-433 “St. George the Victorious” and K-232 “Podolsk”, a source in the Main Command of the Navy said. Disposal will cost 2.7 billion rubles.

From "Kirov" to "Peter"

"Eagle" - the legend of the Navy. They are considered the largest in the world after aircraft carriers. These are the only ships in the Russian fleet with a nuclear power plant. Their range is almost unlimited. Cruisers can operate in harsh climatic conditions, including in the Arctic region.

For the Navy of the USSR and Russia, four nuclear-powered cruisers of the Orlan type were built: Admiral Ushakov (originally, Kirov), Admiral Lazarev, Admiral Nakhimov and Peter the Great. The series was built for a long time - from 1973 to 1996. Three ships strengthened the Northern Fleet, and the latter, the Admiral Lazarev, hit the Pacific. Now only one ship of this project is listed in the ranks - Peter the Great.

Projects on re-equipment of the Orlans have been discussed for a long time, but the money was allocated only under the state program of armaments for 2011–2020.

The End of the Black Prince
Three submarines of the Kalmar 667 BDR, a strategic missile submarine cruiser carrying 16 R-29R intercontinental liquid-propellant rockets and torpedoes, will be allowed into recycling. For many years the boats were the basis of the marine component of the country's nuclear triad. Light body "Squid" has a characteristic hump behind the fence of the cabin, closing the rocket mines, exceeding in its dimensions durable body. The fleet will remain two project submarines - K-44 Ryazan and BS-129 Orenburg.

The K-448 “Daniil Moskovsky” submarine of Project 671 “Pike” was the main multipurpose submarine of the Navy in the 1980–1990s with torpedo armament. In the fleet of the project boat were considered successful for their quietness, performance characteristics and reliability - for all the time of operation they have not had a single accident. In the NATO countries, nuclear-powered icebreakers have been nicknamed the “Black Prince” for their elegant hull lines.

Full article
https://iz.ru/868993/aleksei-ramm-aleksei-kozachenko-bogdan-stepovoi/kreiserova-sonata-atomnyi-flot-otpraviat-v-util

With all this recent news about the Navy it looks like they made up their minds about what they want.

all logic decisions for 2 inactive Kirov class cruisers, the one left Victor III class sub and 3 Delta III SSBNs

There are 2 active Victor III class submarines more.
Do you know 4 of the 6 mentioned (with strong mistakes) were decommissioned by 2017?
Based on what would make sense the decommission of the other 2?

is there any plan for modernization of Delta III class subs or there was in the past??? since they are decommissioned the logic says that will be scrapped
Is there any rule that says if a submarine is decommissioned before 1-2 years, that it will be modernized for sure?

There is only one Victor III class submarine in service, the K-448 was in reserve for years and now article says that it will not be upgraded. Dont say me now that a class of SSNs with 1 left has any future in Russian Navy since new Yasen class is entering the fleet

Truck wrote:

George1 wrote:

Truck wrote:

George1 wrote:

dino00 wrote:Cruiser Sonata: atomic fleet sent for scrap

Six legendary ships and submarines will be scrapped instead of upgraded

Aleksey Ramm
Alexey Kozachenko
Bogdan Stepovoy

Several sources in the military department told Izvestia about an unexpected decision. Recycling plan to complete before the end of 2021. The most sensational will be the destruction of two heavy nuclear missile cruisers "Admiral Ushakov" and "Admiral Lazarev" project 1144 "Orlan". In addition to them, four nuclear submarines will be cut into scrap: K-448 “Daniel of Moscow”, K-221 “Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky”, K-433 “St. George the Victorious” and K-232 “Podolsk”, a source in the Main Command of the Navy said. Disposal will cost 2.7 billion rubles.

From "Kirov" to "Peter"

"Eagle" - the legend of the Navy. They are considered the largest in the world after aircraft carriers. These are the only ships in the Russian fleet with a nuclear power plant. Their range is almost unlimited. Cruisers can operate in harsh climatic conditions, including in the Arctic region.

For the Navy of the USSR and Russia, four nuclear-powered cruisers of the Orlan type were built: Admiral Ushakov (originally, Kirov), Admiral Lazarev, Admiral Nakhimov and Peter the Great. The series was built for a long time - from 1973 to 1996. Three ships strengthened the Northern Fleet, and the latter, the Admiral Lazarev, hit the Pacific. Now only one ship of this project is listed in the ranks - Peter the Great.

Projects on re-equipment of the Orlans have been discussed for a long time, but the money was allocated only under the state program of armaments for 2011–2020.

The End of the Black Prince
Three submarines of the Kalmar 667 BDR, a strategic missile submarine cruiser carrying 16 R-29R intercontinental liquid-propellant rockets and torpedoes, will be allowed into recycling. For many years the boats were the basis of the marine component of the country's nuclear triad. Light body "Squid" has a characteristic hump behind the fence of the cabin, closing the rocket mines, exceeding in its dimensions durable body. The fleet will remain two project submarines - K-44 Ryazan and BS-129 Orenburg.

The K-448 “Daniil Moskovsky” submarine of Project 671 “Pike” was the main multipurpose submarine of the Navy in the 1980–1990s with torpedo armament. In the fleet of the project boat were considered successful for their quietness, performance characteristics and reliability - for all the time of operation they have not had a single accident. In the NATO countries, nuclear-powered icebreakers have been nicknamed the “Black Prince” for their elegant hull lines.

Full article
https://iz.ru/868993/aleksei-ramm-aleksei-kozachenko-bogdan-stepovoi/kreiserova-sonata-atomnyi-flot-otpraviat-v-util

With all this recent news about the Navy it looks like they made up their minds about what they want.

all logic decisions for 2 inactive Kirov class cruisers, the one left Victor III class sub and 3 Delta III SSBNs

There are 2 active Victor III class submarines more.
Do you know 4 of the 6 mentioned (with strong mistakes) were decommissioned by 2017?
Based on what would make sense the decommission of the other 2?

is there any plan for modernization of Delta III class subs or there was in the past??? since they are decommissioned the logic says that will be scrapped
Is there any rule that says if a submarine is decommissioned before 1-2 years, that it will be modernized for sure?

There is only one Victor III class submarine in service, the K-448 was in reserve for years and now article says that it will not be upgraded. Dont say me now that a class of SSNs with 1 left has any future in Russian Navy since new Yasen class is entering the fleet

     There are 2 active and 1 reserve:
SSN B-138 Obninsk Project 671RTMK 1990 active
SSN B-414 Daniil Moskovskiy Project 671RTMK 1990 active
SSN B-448 Tambov Project 671RTMK 1992 reserve
And the decision about scrapping is made habitually at the time of the decommission, now only would be the signature of a contract for scrapping in the case of 4 of the 6.
Eehnie explained very well the meaning of reduction of the fleet.
Based on what would make sense the decommission of the other 2 (Lazarev and Tambov)?
Lazarev has not replacement at least until the commission of the first Lider. Tambov is recent.
Your two comments have been a disaster.

George1 wrote:

Truck wrote:

George1 wrote:

Truck wrote:

George1 wrote:

dino00 wrote:Cruiser Sonata: atomic fleet sent for scrap

Six legendary ships and submarines will be scrapped instead of upgraded

Aleksey Ramm
Alexey Kozachenko
Bogdan Stepovoy

Several sources in the military department told Izvestia about an unexpected decision. Recycling plan to complete before the end of 2021. The most sensational will be the destruction of two heavy nuclear missile cruisers "Admiral Ushakov" and "Admiral Lazarev" project 1144 "Orlan". In addition to them, four nuclear submarines will be cut into scrap: K-448 “Daniel of Moscow”, K-221 “Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky”, K-433 “St. George the Victorious” and K-232 “Podolsk”, a source in the Main Command of the Navy said. Disposal will cost 2.7 billion rubles.

From "Kirov" to "Peter"

"Eagle" - the legend of the Navy. They are considered the largest in the world after aircraft carriers. These are the only ships in the Russian fleet with a nuclear power plant. Their range is almost unlimited. Cruisers can operate in harsh climatic conditions, including in the Arctic region.

For the Navy of the USSR and Russia, four nuclear-powered cruisers of the Orlan type were built: Admiral Ushakov (originally, Kirov), Admiral Lazarev, Admiral Nakhimov and Peter the Great. The series was built for a long time - from 1973 to 1996. Three ships strengthened the Northern Fleet, and the latter, the Admiral Lazarev, hit the Pacific. Now only one ship of this project is listed in the ranks - Peter the Great.

Projects on re-equipment of the Orlans have been discussed for a long time, but the money was allocated only under the state program of armaments for 2011–2020.

The End of the Black Prince
Three submarines of the Kalmar 667 BDR, a strategic missile submarine cruiser carrying 16 R-29R intercontinental liquid-propellant rockets and torpedoes, will be allowed into recycling. For many years the boats were the basis of the marine component of the country's nuclear triad. Light body "Squid" has a characteristic hump behind the fence of the cabin, closing the rocket mines, exceeding in its dimensions durable body. The fleet will remain two project submarines - K-44 Ryazan and BS-129 Orenburg.

The K-448 “Daniil Moskovsky” submarine of Project 671 “Pike” was the main multipurpose submarine of the Navy in the 1980–1990s with torpedo armament. In the fleet of the project boat were considered successful for their quietness, performance characteristics and reliability - for all the time of operation they have not had a single accident. In the NATO countries, nuclear-powered icebreakers have been nicknamed the “Black Prince” for their elegant hull lines.

Full article
https://iz.ru/868993/aleksei-ramm-aleksei-kozachenko-bogdan-stepovoi/kreiserova-sonata-atomnyi-flot-otpraviat-v-util

With all this recent news about the Navy it looks like they made up their minds about what they want.

all logic decisions for 2 inactive Kirov class cruisers, the one left Victor III class sub and 3 Delta III SSBNs

There are 2 active Victor III class submarines more.
Do you know 4 of the 6 mentioned (with strong mistakes) were decommissioned by 2017?
Based on what would make sense the decommission of the other 2?

is there any plan for modernization of Delta III class subs or there was in the past??? since they are decommissioned the logic says that will be scrapped
Is there any rule that says if a submarine is decommissioned before 1-2 years, that it will be modernized for sure?

There is only one Victor III class submarine in service, the K-448 was in reserve for years and now article says that it will not be upgraded. Dont say me now that a class of SSNs with 1 left has any future in Russian Navy since new Yasen class is entering the fleet

     There are 2 active and 1 reserve:
SSN B-138 Obninsk Project 671RTMK 1990 active
SSN B-414 Daniil Moskovskiy Project 671RTMK 1990 active
SSN B-448 Tambov Project 671RTMK 1992 reserve
And the decision about scrapping is made habitually at the time of the decommission, now only would be the signature of a contract for scrapping in the case of 4 of the 6.
Eehnie explained very well the meaning of reduction of the fleet.
Based on what would make sense the decommission of the other 2 (Lazarev and Tambov)?
Lazarev has not replacement at least until the commission of the first Lider. Tambov is recent.
Your two comments have been a disaster.

Give source for Victor iii class in active service to see who is disaster.
Tell me also when you last saw Lazarev in active service, unless you consider painting in drydock as ship in active service.

It is madness how you are constantly insisting on things that don't happen

Truck wrote:
Give source for the contrary. Give source for the decommission of B-138 Obninsk and B-414 Daniil Moskovskiy.

Truck wrote:.
Disaster because you have been unable of reproducing right the past and of recognizing your mistakes. Do you think only Eehnie would catch your mistakes?

Truck wrote:
Lazarev and Tambov can be modernized, and should be, at their turn.

Gazputin wrote:yeah read that …
Ivan Gren … was designed by a committee … its a crazy design … but I get why the big crane was in the middle of the ship re stability
question is …. why do you need the crane anyway ? …. primitive ports etc ?? nfi

GP wrote:anyway they are made at Yantar
so I looked up their website and they can make ships up to 150-160 m long and 25-26m wide … max

LMFS wrote:
Is strange to talk about an 'helicopter carrier' because of several reasons:

- First, a newer vessel of a newer class (and more in the size of a LHD) would need many years to be approved developed and built. 2024 is simply too close and we have heard nothing until now about concrete building plans for helo carriers

LMFS wrote:
- Turning Ivan Gren into a LHD? Sorry? What would be used of the original ship? It makes no sense to do this, the deck would be different, the size too, the bay would be completely different due to hangars and completely different layout of the superstructure. In fact, the Gren is an old vessel with an unimpressive hull that has already been put down for not so good sea-keeping They have just patented a newer hull type which would be ideal for a LHD

SeigSoloyvov wrote:The Russians looked at this and decided the sheer cost and time verse what it offered was in NO WAY worth it.

You guys need to move on from those relics, get new and better subs stop trying to keep crappy ones alive.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:The Russians looked at this and decided the sheer cost and time verse what it offered was in NO WAY worth it.

You guys need to move on from those relics, get new and better subs stop trying to keep crappy ones alive.

The decision about scrapping 5 large nuclear powered ships is is logical and an good one. Why to keep old extremely expensive and non unified ships if with same or smaller amount of resources you can build better, newer ships?


PtG modernization was from 30-50Bns Rub + 4 years. In 2012. So it might be even higher.  Lider shall cost ~100Bns Rubles and 6-7 years to build?
Sme with subs better to build more Huskies Laikas then moderinze old subs

https://iz.ru/703082/konstantin-bogdanov/velikii-remont

Tsavo Lion wrote:Then why keep 2 of them still? They could mothball/sell them & build 2-3 more SSGNs instead! U need to have the right tool for the job!