Syrian War: News #17

Vladimir79 wrote:

Isos wrote:

France can't stop Turkey attacking the kurds. They already said they don't mean to send troops to stop turkey. If they really want to survive, Kurds should ask russian for protection or give back some of their territory to Assad to have a buffer zone. They won't survive a fight against a modern army.

The only thing the French have to do is provide a no-fly-zone.  Turkish AMRAAMs are incapable of shooting down NATO transponders.  It would be really funny watching a bunch of antiquated F-16s and F-4 with only Sidewinders and guns against Rafales armed with Meteors.  

Where did you get this info ? I never saw that. So russians just have to hack nato transponders and they are safe ?

Is it true for every AMRAAM ? Like tomorrow if nato attack Egypt their f-16 will be useless ?

Vann7 wrote:

well that could be true.. but don't forget F-16s have also direct gun fire... NATO transponders can't stop
a vulcan gun can it ?.  Turkey have the numbers of fighter planes advantage too (245 F-16C/D)  vs France small airforce in Syria , if Erdogan was crazy ..( oh wait)..and he wanted to punish France he have ways to do it..  Erdogan will neither have problem to get air defenses from IRAN to target NATO planes.. Manpads from IRAN or China he also can get . But for that to happen ,he will have to break relations with france. So technically speaking if Erdogan really wanted to cause problems to France in Syria he can do it. The Turkey army will not be stopped by a small airforce of france in Syria.
Neither Russia small airforce can stop that.. will have to use nukes to stop a a full scale army invasion from Turkey.
but don't think anyone will go that far. we will have to wait and see.. anything can happen ,bur ERdogan does not
think carefully his actions.. his driven more by emotions ,that common sense and that have always to be taken into consideration.

Vulcan cannons taking out Meteor equipped eurocanards? I would put more faith in the AIM-9s as at least those will work. TuAF numbers are irrelevant when they don't have the pilots to fly them. In Operation Olive Branch TuAF pilots had to fly double shifts and couldn't equip over 60 combat aircraft. You forget Erdogan purged the air force of all of its best pilots, the rest of them ran away to the airlines. If Turkey wants to make it a war France can give them one they can't win, it doesn't take long to move aircraft squadrons. All they would really have to do is drop off one or two SAMP/T batteries would shut TuAF down. If the best Turkey can do is to get Iran in on it they are out of luck as they are just there in an advisory role. The only way to stop the French is a US or Russia intervention, something neither side looks willing to do. Don't forget an attack on a NATO member means all suppliers cut off to Turkey so whatever you have at the start is all you get. The French have a pretty extensive arms industry that won't get cut off from its suppliers.

Isos wrote:

Where did you get this info ? I never saw that. So russians just have to hack nato transponders and they are safe ?

Is it true for every AMRAAM ? Like tomorrow if nato attack Egypt their f-16 will be useless ?

Of course, it is part of the IFF system. Only the US can turn it off for them.

Vladimir79 wrote:

Isos wrote:

Where did you get this info ? I never saw that. So russians just have to hack nato transponders and they are safe ?

Is it true for every AMRAAM ? Like tomorrow if nato attack Egypt their f-16 will be useless ?

Of course, it is part of the IFF system.  Only the US can turn it off for them.

IFF is manual system. If the pilot doesn't use it he can still shoot the missile. Rafales also have IFF and I think US manage those systems for everyone, same with link 16.

Why would they buy something that won't work against any threat possible ? Specially knowing that Turkey and Greece could start a war anyday soon and greece is also a nato member.

kvs wrote:

auslander wrote:There is for the last five days persistent scuttlebutt that more then one western operative, read serving military US and Germany, have been captured in the Damaskus Region with their equipage. Scuttlebutt is 'SAA and allies' did the pounce, no other ID. If my aging memory serves, Gouta is in Damaskus Region.

This rumour is likely valid.   The SAA and Russian forces had their sh*t together during this operation and neutralized the false flag
being prepared and stopped the big "retaliation" plans of the USA and its minions.    For sure a chemical terrorist act was being prepared
by the moderate head choppers at the behest of their NATO masters.    The labs were seize too fast for them to act and their chemical
raw material was tracked down to the fake NGO that delivered them.    It is quite likely that the East Ghouta operation moved too fast
for the NATO minders to clear out fast enough and some likely got caught.   I assume they were good leverage against NATO since
the build up of the mass media propaganda hysteria about Russia bombing babies in the last hospital and cat sanctuaries fizzled out
for some mysterious reason.

Noise is pretty consistent as are the details, almost no variation anywhere and it's not the usual mouths who ain't there, ergo my post.

Mother did toss a monkey wrench in the moderate and gentle opposition's plans and such plans would have had to involve 'westerners', IOW not the 'local' opposition. Might be an interesting spring in Damaskus Region amongst other places.

Isos wrote:

IFF is manual system. If the pilot doesn't use it he can still shoot the missile. Rafales also have IFF and I think US manage those systems for everyone, same with link 16.

Why would they buy something that won't work against any threat possible ? Specially knowing that Turkey and Greece could start a war anyday soon and greece is also a nato member.

The exported AMRAAMs cannot be used without IFF. It is a fail-safe planned that way after the Iranian Revolution so US equipment could not be used against the US. The rush to destroy Phoenix missiles taught them a lesson they didn't want to face again. Turkey does not buy anything from the US, it is part of their military aid welfare package. Turkey cannot shoot down Hellenic aircraft with AMRAAMs, it can use Sidewinders or guns. Same goes for Egyptian F-16s that want to shoot down an Israeli jet. War would have broke out long ago if the US let that happen. The French make their own missiles and programme them how they want, Turkey is reliant on the US.

Vladimir79 wrote:

Isos wrote:

IFF is manual system. If the pilot doesn't use it he can still shoot the missile. Rafales also have IFF and I think US manage those systems for everyone, same with link 16.

Why would they buy something that won't work against any threat possible ? Specially knowing that Turkey and Greece could start a war anyday soon and greece is also a nato member.

The exported AMRAAMs cannot be used without IFF.  It is a fail-safe planned that way after the Iranian Revolution so US equipment could not be used against the US.  The rush to destroy Phoenix missiles taught them a lesson they didn't want to face again.  Turkey does not buy anything from the US, it is part of their military aid welfare package.  Turkey cannot shoot down Hellenic aircraft with AMRAAMs, it can use Sidewinders or guns.  Same goes for Egyptian F-16s that want to shoot down an Israeli jet.  War would have broke out long ago if the US let that happen.  The French make their own missiles and programme them how they want, Turkey is reliant on the US.

That's pathetic... and they still want f-35.

Does russian do the same with their equipment ? SAM ans air to air missiles ?

Info circulating here about AMRAAM's and NATO transponders is completely bullshit.

AMRAAM's engagement protocol is active radar contact by the AMRAAM's own RF seeker. And that is directed by the host aircraft. Turkish AMRAAMs can even shoot down another Turkish planes. And AMRAAM and likewise munitions do not have any IFF protocol.

Whoever claims such things has no clue about NATO munitions...

Isos wrote:

That's pathetic... and they still want f-35.

Does russian do the same with their equipment ? SAM ans air to air missiles ?

It is paid for by the US taxpayer so they only want the best they aren't paying for. If they had to spend their own money it would be Russian aircraft all day, the same as S-400 when they didn't have enough welfare money left to get SAMs.

AbdulhamidtheSecond wrote:Info circulating here about AMRAAM's and NATO transponders is completely bullshit.

AMRAAM's engagement protocol is active radar contact by the AMRAAM's own RF seeker. And that is directed by the host aircraft. Turkish AMRAAMs can even shoot down another Turkish planes. And AMRAAM and likewise munitions do not have any IFF protocol.

Whoever claims such things has no clue about NATO munitions...

Watch your language.  AMRAAM receives mid-course guidance from the aircraft's radar or Link 16 which is tied into IFF.   It will not allow the aircraft to launch the missile at a friendly without an override which tier 2 export versions don't have. There has never been a frat incident with an AMRAAM where the transponder was squawking on the correct frequency.

https://twitter.com/Navsteva/status/980541395634094080

Jihadi Julian losing his FSA supporters. LOL. He was always a NATO propagandist.

kvs wrote:https://twitter.com/Navsteva/status/980541395634094080

Jihadi Julian losing his FSA supporters. LOL. He was always a NATO propagandist.

Kyle Orton is taking shit from jihadi cheerleading squad too, what's happening?

“Thousands of Christians in Aleppo & across Syria turn out for Easter celebrations (PHOTO, VIDEO).”

https://www.rt.com/news/422925-syria-eater-celebrations-aleppo/

Arabs in Raqqa have formed a pro-Syrian government militia
https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/04/arabs-begin-insurgency-against-kurdish-us-occupiers-in-syria-videos/

Vladimir79 wrote:

AbdulhamidtheSecond wrote:Info circulating here about AMRAAM's and NATO transponders is completely bullshit.

AMRAAM's engagement protocol is active radar contact by the AMRAAM's own RF seeker. And that is directed by the host aircraft. Turkish AMRAAMs can even shoot down another Turkish planes. And AMRAAM and likewise munitions do not have any IFF protocol.

Whoever claims such things has no clue about NATO munitions...

Watch your language.  AMRAAM receives mid-course guidance from the aircraft's radar or Link 16 which is tied into IFF.   It will not allow the aircraft to launch the missile at a friendly without an override which tier 2 export versions don't have. There has never been a frat incident with an AMRAAM where the transponder was squawking on the correct frequency.

Turkish F-16's use national IFF systems produced by ASELSAN. I have seen actual F-16 IFF protocols made by ASELSAN and the engineer I talked with clearly explained me how things work. Your explanation may only work for countries completely using US made protocols.

Sorry but the word I used is quite correct except its kindness...

AbdulhamidtheSecond wrote:
Turkish F-16's use national IFF systems produced by ASELSAN. I have seen actual F-16 IFF protocols made by ASELSAN and the engineer I talked with clearly explained me how things work. Your explanation may only work for countries completely using US made protocols.

Sorry but the word I used is quite correct except its kindness...

Turkey got limited technology transfer for domestic assembly and re-export and that's worth something, in terms of commercial ties with Lockheed Martin. But Turkey tends to get its F16 avionics via FMS, Foreign Military Sales (government to government) rather than DCS (commercial war profiteering). That makes it a US Defense Department procurement on Turkey's behalf, with Turkey nominally in control of the system configuration. The deal they got makes them a distinctly junior partner compared to the MIDS founders, Germany, Italy, Spain, and France. Turkey can tinker with the systems all they want, but as long as they depend on Viasat et al., the US can cut off maintenance and configuration management control. So as long as NATO makes Turkey helpless against anyone of their choosing, diversified sourcing would do more to bolster Turkey's security than relying on an unfriendly NATO.

Vladimir79 wrote:

AbdulhamidtheSecond wrote:
Turkish F-16's use national IFF systems produced by ASELSAN. I have seen actual F-16 IFF protocols made by ASELSAN and the engineer I talked with clearly explained me how things work. Your explanation may only work for countries completely using US made protocols.

Sorry but the word I used is quite correct except its kindness...

Turkey got limited technology transfer for domestic assembly and re-export and that's worth something, in terms of commercial ties with Lockheed Martin. But Turkey tends to get its F16 avionics via FMS, Foreign Military Sales (government to government) rather than DCS (commercial war profiteering). That makes it a US Defense Department procurement on Turkey's behalf, with Turkey nominally in control of the system configuration. The deal they got makes them a distinctly junior partner compared to the MIDS founders, Germany, Italy, Spain, and France. Turkey can tinker with the systems all they want, but as long as they depend on Viasat et al., the US can cut off maintenance and configuration management control. So as long as NATO makes Turkey helpless against anyone of their choosing, diversified sourcing would do more to bolster Turkey's security than relying on an unfriendly NATO.  

I read somewhere, a Turkish Minister was complaining,that they had to go through a 3rd party, to get something simple as assault rifles.

USAF F-15's shot down two US Army Blackhawk helicopters with AIM-120 during the no-fly zone mission in Iraq. So an allied fighter jet can shot another allied plane with radar guided missiles like AIM-120. Just look at the friendly fire accidents during in 1991 and 2003 Iraq. As Abdulhamid said, we have national IFF system, which is using by our F-16's and F-4's. So that means we can easily choose who is the friend or foe.

USAF F-15's shot down two US Army Blackhawk helicopters with AIM-120 during the no-fly zone mission in Iraq. So an allied fighter jet can shot another allied plane with radar guided missiles like AIM-120.

He was talking about export models not domestic US ones.

Isos wrote:

USAF F-15's shot down two US Army Blackhawk helicopters with AIM-120 during the no-fly zone mission in Iraq. So an allied fighter jet can shot another allied plane with radar guided missiles like AIM-120.

He was talking about export models not domestic US ones.

Not to mention the Blackhawks weren't squawking the IFF code which is why they were shot down, the IFF safeguard never kicked in.

This is why planes have IFF. But code numbers are changed manually at any given time, so Turkey could simply use different codes than the rest of NATO in IFF and those planes will be seen as hostile. It's the same in air defense and in air force. You change code number and plane which didn't change as well, will be seen as enemy, because he will answer with wrong code number.

medo wrote:This is why planes have IFF. But code numbers are changed manually at any given time, so Turkey could simply use different codes than the rest of NATO in IFF and those planes will be seen as hostile. It's the same in air defense and in air force. You change code number and plane which didn't change as well, will be seen as enemy, because he will answer with wrong code number.

Here, I should add that S-400 systems that are purchased by Turkey will have domestic IFF systems on them also. So other Turkish systems will be able to see S-400's as integral parts of Turkish military.


If we return to the main topic, Turkish military delegation visited Khan Sheykun today to examine possible observation points...

Those Blackhawks that were shot down failed to change codes after entering Iraqi airspace, and so were giving the wrong response.

The irony is that the brave F-15 pilots were so afraid they were Hinds they never got within about 6km of the helos at about 800km/h fight speed, but it was the guy in the AWACS that got the blame for the mistaken identity....

Off subject but is it true your PM was saying that there was no Russian spies to throw out so they couldn't stand together with their allies in throwing Russians diplomats out?

We currently have a coalition government that does not include National (right wing... well actually right middle wing like all in west). the leader of one minor party has got rather more power than he has ever had before and he doesn't care about politics or American/EU propaganda, I think he used to be a lawyer and would rather trade than punish... especially without trial or due process...

In French but seems to be good.

JohninMK wrote:In French but seems to be good.

French disposition in Syria according to Turkey