Syrian War: News #17

One system we have heard very little of in syria in 2k22 tunguska Pantsir-S1 has had a fair bit of coverage sure tunguska would be capable of shooting down cruise missiles. I know that they only have a small number of then so it could just mean not in the right place at the right time.

Any word on S-300 delivery and what variant?  Would be nice for the Russians to sent a dozen Sonsa R give them a combat testing as well as  another asset tried and tested and isn't Sonsa cheaper than Pantsir-S1?

Lavrov stated he saw no moral obligation not to deliver S-300 I wonder if that would extend to the delivery of yak-130 and mig-29m2 it's likely they might get them  at the end of the war probably along with bmp-2 and T-72B3M. I can't imagine their airforce will be in any fit sit by then with majority being retired. If there lucky they might even get Su-24m2 as Russia replaces some of theirs

Lavrov: There is no longer any "moral reason" to prevent Moscow from supplying Damascus with S-300 anti-aircraft defense systems.

https://muraselon.com/2018/04/%D8%AA%D8%B2%D9%88%D9%8A%D8%AF-%D8%AF%D9%85%D8%B4%D9%82-%D8%A8%D9%85%D9%86%D8%B8%D9%88%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AF%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%B9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D9%88%D9%8A-%D8%A5%D8%B3-300/

https://muraselon.com/en/2018/04/russia-no-longer-has-any-moral-obligations-to-deny-syrias-military-s-300-air-defense-system-lavrov/

Vann7 wrote:Anna news report of some American cruise missiles that did not explode..
by "mysterious reasons"..  this should clarify the trolls claiming there is "no evidence"
of failure of American or European missiles..


Ignore the stupid music..  the original video have to be somewhere
in Anna news channel.. but not going to search for it.

One AGM-158 JASSM missile that did not explode and the engine was fried
for "unknown reasons" ..




Perhaps the missile got an electrified wlecome by Russia EW defenses?   
The missile was delivered to Russia military for study and reverse engineering,
if there is a need for it.

EW cant "fry the engine".

Footage of SAA offensive at Yarmouk camp  
https://vk.com/syriantube?z=video-128368123_456240282%2Fa05dbd0e0200d46a9e%2Fpl_wall_-55849790  

---

24 Resistance Axis @Syria_Hezb_Iran  
MAP: #SAA led by Tiger Forces capture strategic Mt Al-Batra’ & Mt Al-Afa’i in eastern #Qalamoun, imposing siege on remaining “rebels”-held towns.

Isos wrote:

Vann7 wrote:

Anna news report of some American cruise missiles that did not explode..
by "mysterious reasons"..  this should clarify the trolls claiming there is "no evidence"
of failure of American or European missiles..


Ignore the stupid music..  the original video have to be somewhere
in Anna news channel.. but not going to search for it.

One AGM-158 JASSM missile that did not explode and the engine was fried
for "unknown reasons" ..




Perhaps electronic attack ?  

This is a video of the first attack on the airbase.

Yup that's the air base alright.
So even Vann7 couldn't find anything, well we got nothing, looks like the Americans won this one, total victory,..... Pr victory anyway.
I'd like to believe the Syrians/Russians, but i see nothing so, until something comes out, moving on.

Iran and Israel are threatening each other. The rhetoric is hotting up:

http://www.atimes.com/article/finger-trigger-missiles-ready-launch-iran-tells-israel/

American F-22A fighters took part in striking Syria

According to the American Web site Militarian.com, officials from the US Air Force Central Command (AFCENT) said that the fifth-generation Lockheed Martin F-22A Raptor fighter aircraft of the US Air Force participated in the attack by the United States, Britain and France on Syrian targets April 14, 2018 of the year. Earlier participation of F-22A in this operation was not disclosed.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3167770.html

@ d-taddei 2

I agree with you on bringing cost down . I read that Syria had over 2000 " old" AAA . That they are " phasing out " ! If they have hardware and bullets to fire , then they could fit low cost IR detection available on market to these guns . They could then train operators to bring down incoming missiles . Or these guns can be fixed in position with overlapping fixed field of view . Can image be electronically scanned , once a spike in signal detected , to open fire ? Even smaller caliber can be adapted . Now we see bringing down low speed cruise can be done . Relatively easy . We have looked the monster in the eye . This method can be used in conjunction with existing system . Without problem . Since it is short range and passive . The round they fire should not be tracer . To confuse the optics on ground .

par far wrote:
I don't think Iran will do any retaliation, they will likely sent in more weapons and support for the SAA and Hezbollah.

I think you're right and certainly hope so. Israel may be seeking a pretext to destroy a lot more than it has already.

nomadski wrote:@ d-taddei 2

I agree with you on bringing cost down . I read that Syria had over 2000 " old" AAA . That they are " phasing out " !  If they have hardware and bullets to fire , then they could fit low cost IR detection available on market to these guns . They could then train operators to bring down incoming missiles . Or these guns can be fixed in position with overlapping  fixed field of view . Can image be electronically  scanned , once a spike in signal detected , to open fire ? Even smaller caliber can be adapted . Now we see bringing down low speed cruise can be done . Relatively easy . We have looked the monster in the eye . This method can be used in conjunction with existing system . Without problem . Since it is short range and passive . The round they fire should not be tracer . To confuse the optics on ground .

I think most of their AAA guns have been mounted on trucks and 4x4 etc and used in ground support role which is fine I've seen zpu 1/2/4, zu-23-2, 61-k 37 mm,  & S-60 mounted in that way. Haven't seen type -65 yet nor 52-k and ks-19 but Syria had 100's of these and Cuba have mounted then in ground support role before so I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't.  Could even be mounted on mt-lb or bmp-1. But those guns  (52-k / ks-19) given an upgrade like Iranian sa-ir ( ks-19 automatic radar guided self loading 4-5 rounds system) it becomes deadly 100mm shells will have a good blast radius and powerful. Now if you fitted EMP shells even better lol. I think syria even hauled out of storage zsu -57-2 for ground support role which it's actually quite good at. But give this system what you mentioned it could be capable of taking out cruise missiles range and penetration wouldn't be a problem. But to be honest AAA guns have proved to be VERY useful in the war in ground support role and made these weapons useful against although in a different role. Iraq and Libya was the same. I always thought that the zpu-4 mounted on a truck or mt-lb would be a great VBIED killer adequate range, reasonable penetration, and 4 barrels increased chances to hit.

Never stand in the way of some infighting


Riam Dalati
‏Verified account @Dalatrm
16h16 hours ago

Damascus Voice:
"Ultra-conservative" faction of #IslamicState in #YarmoukCamp and Southern #Damascus kill overall Emir after he issued orders banning them from attacking #HTS positions. Prominent since late 2013, he had only been re-appointed to his position 2 days ago.

Russia, Iraq, Iran and Syria coordinating their security and intelligence now in a regular forum. This is great news guys:

https://youtu.be/R6inVQ9Har4

Good news from Southern Damascus



Couple notes to make:

@ 3:50
Terrorists probably heard that sound kilometres away. I wager a good many of them turned tail and ran. I sure as hell wouldn't stick around after hearing that hellish screech.

@ 4:23 & 5:43
Good to know all you need to fire 122mm grad rocket is a step ladder and a railing. I find it amusing that, at the latter time stamp, there's that one guy trying to sight in. I'm sure he has ample control of trajectory

Rebels in east Qalamoun hand over their tanks and weapons to SAA

Jaish al-Islam's Iranian Zelzal-2 launcher and associated artillery rockets recovered by SAA

here in use by terrorists

GarryB wrote:

The important thing about air defence is integrating all your sensors and weapons together so they work together... Missiles force aircraft and missiles to fly low, where they can be engaged by guns or even small arms, but you need to know what is coming and when.

Fitting IR sights to AAA is fine but if they don't know what is coming and from where then it wont help...

Wonder why they never mentioned the venerable S-75 (SA-2) in the aftermath of the 14th april strike...it should be around in substantial numbers. Wasn't it part of that upgrade package like the other Soviet-built legacy SAMs or can it be considered as phased-out of service?

It's obvious the SyAD has made considerable progress recently...it was a cakewalk for the IAF for decades and lately they were able to intercept several smaller attacks. Not completely but still remarkable...and out of nothing they blunt a relative large-scale attack last week. That's a watershed moment imho. The west lost one of its big sticks that night. One of my big concerns was that the defenders would be running out of missiles and simply getting overwhelmed but its obvious they could have absorbed a much bigger attack. heck the Pantsirs fired meager 25 missiles and they operate quite a number (40 or so...that's a number to be reckoned with for a small country).

So what has to be done yet by Russia and Syria to create a full-fledged integrated multi-layered air-defense network? Adding a few S-300 batteries and more Buk-M2E and Pantsir-S1 of course but whats with the abundant AAA and ManPADs?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uqJbUKEPgXc


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf3dHfucoQk


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iKZpUvz4MZo

@ calm

That "Iranian " rocket must have been supplied to SAA . Only later to fall into hands of rats .

@ d-taddei 2

You obviously know your guns . I was thinking of using the most available and cheapest ones . Since if we develop super expensive warheads and radar , then it defeats the objective of assymetric approach to defeating this CM menace .

@Gary B

Detection of heated tail of CM not as much of problem . We can know where it is going . And in this scenario , do not need to know where it is coming from . Concentrations of AAA is only effective in point defence . What if yanks used glide bombs instead of CM ? Then not even heated tail . A rock falling from sky . Then borrow from history and think outside box . Here is a sample :

( 1 ) Most attacks by CM at night . Why ? Because visual detection possible . Target with simple AAA.

( 2 ) So make night into day . By ( a ) Passive radar generally directing search light . Then AAA hit missile . ( b ) By higher altitude flares , creating counter shading of missile and hitting with AAA .

( 3 ) Syrian jets circle at higher altitude and dive after CM . Hitting with cannon . Like WW2 , where Germany V 1 was shot down Iin chase by spitfire .

( 4 ) technological solution of seeding atmosphere around target with gases dispersed by rocket . These give off light when hot gases or objects disturb them . By sticking to surface ........

All cheaper methods .......

calm wrote:Rebels in east Qalamoun hand over their tanks and weapons to SAA...

That's a lot of hardware...TOW missiles too. I'm surprised they didn't blow it up before surrendering

nomadski wrote:

@ calm

That "Iranian " rocket must have been supplied to SAA . Only later to fall into hands of rats .

@ d-taddei 2

You obviously know your guns . I was thinking of using the most available and cheapest ones . Since if we develop super expensive warheads and radar , then it defeats the objective of assymetric approach to defeating this CM menace .

@Gary B

Detection of heated tail of CM not as much of problem . We can know where it is going . And in this scenario , do not need to know where it is coming from . Concentrations of AAA is only effective  in point defence . What if yanks used glide bombs instead of CM ? Then not even heated tail . A rock falling from sky . Then borrow from history and think outside box . Here is a sample :

( 1 )  Most attacks by CM at night . Why ? Because visual detection possible . Target with simple AAA.

( 2 ) So make night into day . By ( a ) Passive radar generally  directing search light . Then AAA hit missile . ( b ) By higher altitude flares , creating counter shading of missile and hitting with AAA .

( 3 ) Syrian jets circle at higher altitude and dive after CM . Hitting with cannon . Like WW2 , where Germany V 1 was shot down Iin chase by spitfire .

( 4 ) technological solution of seeding atmosphere around target with gases dispersed by rocket . These give off light when hot gases or objects disturb them . By sticking to surface ........

All cheaper methods .......

Like I most AAA guns were put into ground support role but haven't seen the larger calibre guns being used in that manner so maybe they are still in storage or in an air defence role. But a mix of these and smaller calibre guns would be ideal what the Iranians did with their KS-19 wasn't expensive and I am sure Iran wouldn't mind giving Syrian guns the same treatment likely for free. Excellent drone killers. There's nothing fancy about the upgrade just makes an old gun better. They also have the mesbah-1 using 4 zu-23-2 giving 8 barrels yet again radar and IR used along with fire control system and was designed to shoot missiles along with usual air targets and you also have the Iranian bahman basically a truck mounted with a turret from a zsu -57-2 with increased rmp think around 10,000 and likely increased ammo load and likely operates similar to the other systems. So syria has an ally with the answers and technology with working examples already so no need to go inventing anything. Iranians just need to stump up the cash and get it done as syria ain't got the cash. Oh and all systems I believe have been tested and shot down intended targets so no need to test. Am on my phone in Uganda so don't have pics but i've posted plenty in Iranian threads on here or Google it

PapaDragon wrote:
Not Syria but if true then it might be related on certain level...

There are reports of heavy gunfire at the Saudi King Palace in Riyadh

https://twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/987761596264001537

Meh, just a victory parade rehearsal after winning in Yemen :-)

Skandalwitwe wrote:

It's obvious the SyAD has made considerable progress recently...it was a cakewalk for the IAF for decades and lately they were able to intercept several smaller attacks. Not completely but still remarkable...and out of nothing they blunt a relative large-scale attack last week. That's a watershed moment imho. The west lost one of its big sticks that night. One of my big concerns was that the defenders would be running out of missiles and simply getting overwhelmed but its obvious they could have absorbed a much bigger attack. heck the Pantsirs fired meager 25 missiles and they operate quite a number (40 or so...that's a number to be reckoned with for a small country).

So what has to be done yet by Russia and Syria to create a full-fledged integrated multi-layered air-defense network? Adding a few S-300 batteries and more Buk-M2E and Pantsir-S1 of course but whats with the abundant AAA and ManPADs?

as for AA missiles supplies - nobody canceled Syrian Express yet. With S-300 it si Zionist problem. Otherwise it could be shipped long time go. But the good side of April 14 aggression that actually both Iran and Syria can receive phased out S-300 regiments. Perhaps Syria also Osa-Ms

[quote="AlfaT8"][quote="Isos"]

Vann7 wrote:
So even Vann7 couldn't find anything, well we got nothing, looks like the Americans won this one, total victory,..... Pr victory anyway.
I'd like to believe the Syrians/Russians, but i see nothing so, until something comes out, moving on.

You know your logic works both ways?

Unless you can find us something that Proof.. That Russia defense minister is blatantly lying that Syria shot down
71 missiles and is the Pentagon the one telling the truth.. that "none missiles were intercepted".. Then we can move
on ,and continue with other topics.. I have no reason to believe why Will Russia military be lying or even less
why would Russia air defenses have any problem to intercept a stupid S U B S O N I C  missiles ,that is very very
slow for missile standards and fly in the very linear and predictable flight path..

I have posted videos of Tomahacks flying that combat planes can chase them.. Russia even have manpads [Verba]
that can are advertised as able to shutdown Cruise missiles.. So where is the "Alien Science" in intercepting a missile designed in the 80s.. already 30 years old.. and that fly very slow ?  oh noo is NATO.. if its from NATO then is impossible to intercept?  

If Russia can intercept Intercontinental Ballistic missiles ,flying at Mach 20.. intercepting a stupid missile flying
at mach 0.8 is laughable for Russia military. Since the 70's if not earlier ,Russia have the capability to intercept Cruise Missiles.. no no idea where is the controversy to do it now..

Since you like videos.. take a look of Russia training intercepting Cruise missiles.



and the video shows any close range Gatling Gun , can intercept a cruise missile. oh wait Pantsirs also have
a gatling Gun too and is only used if the missile interception fails.. then use direct fire..

and Russia military says they did it..

Pantsir-S1 Repelling US Strikes on Syria Showed 100% Effectiveness - Russian MoD

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201804161063620948-pantsir-s1-syria/

So people questioning Russia claims ,can you provide any evidence? that Russia is lying?
I don't see why interception of such outdated missiles is a big deal.. If we were speaking about
Hypersonic missiles interception or Supersonic ,But this are subsonic slow missiles that even a manpad can intercept
if you knew before hand the linear trajectory and time the missile will pass withing visual rang of you. A modern combat plane is more harder to intercept.. since have counter electronics and fly too fast and too high.. but NATO cruise missiles generally don't have any defenses. and they rely in Mass numbers attacks to overwhelm an airdefense
.

Vann7 wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:So even Vann7 couldn't find anything, well we got nothing, looks like the Americans won this one, total victory,..... Pr victory anyway.
I'd like to believe the Syrians/Russians, but i see nothing so, until something comes out, moving on.

You know your logic works both ways?

Unless you can find us something that Proof.. That Russia defense minister is blatantly lying that Syria shot down
71 missiles and is the Pentagon the one telling the truth.. that "none missiles were intercepted".. Then we can move
on ,and continue with other topics.. I have no reason to believe why Will Russia military be lying or even less
why would Russia air defenses have any problem to intercept a stupid S U B S O N I C  missiles ,that is very very
slow for missile standards and fly in the very linear and predictable flight path..

I have posted videos of Tomahacks flying that combat planes can chase them.. Russia even have manpads [Verba]
that can are advertised as able to shutdown Cruise missiles.. So where is the "Alien Science" in intercepting a missile designed in the 80s.. already 30 years old.. and that fly very slow ?  oh noo is NATO.. if its from NATO then is impossible to intercept?  

If Russia can intercept Intercontinental Ballistic missiles ,flying at Mach 20.. intercepting a stupid missile flying
at mach 0.8 is laughable for Russia military. Since the 70's if not earlier ,Russia have the capability to intercept Cruise Missiles.. no no idea where is the controversy to do it now..

Since you like videos.. take a look of Russia training intercepting Cruise missiles.

......

and the video shows any close range Gatling Gun , can intercept a cruise missile. oh wait Pantsirs also have
a gatling Gun too and is only used if the missile interception fails.. then use direct fire..

and Russia military says they did it..

Pantsir-S1 Repelling US Strikes on Syria Showed 100% Effectiveness - Russian MoD

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201804161063620948-pantsir-s1-syria/

So people questioning Russia claims ,can you provide any evidence? that Russia is lying?
I don't see why interception of such outdated missiles is a big deal.. If we were speaking about
Hypersonic missiles interception or Supersonic ,But this are subsonic slow missiles that even a manpad can intercept
if you knew before hand the linear trajectory and time the missile will pass withing visual rang of you. A modern combat plane is more harder to intercept.. since have counter electronics and fly too fast and too high.. but NATO cruise missiles generally don't have any defenses. and they rely in Mass numbers attacks to overwhelm an airdefense.

I think you misunderstood when i said "PR" victory.

We know Syria's current Russian systems and a number of modernized Legacy systems are more than capable of handling some slow as F missiles.
Problem is, there's no proof coming out, and without it there is no case for the Russian systems on the PR front, while the U.S can simply point towards the damage they had inflicted as well as the previous 2017 Shayrat strikes, and many will conclude that the Russians are lying here too.

In short, at least the U.S has satellite footage confirming impact, while Russia has nothing.