Syrian War: News #17

Israel Defense Forces hit a SA22 / Pantsir-S1 aerial interception system as part of a wide-scale attack against Iranian military sites in Syria

Location: Mezzeh Military Airport

par far wrote:

Hey Seig, how good are the Iranian AD systems? Please be  unbiased here.

People need to remember that Air Defenses (AD) are never supposed to be used alone..
without any other additional help.. anyone who do that , is operating them not the way ,they are intended.
So you can deploy S-500 or S-900s in Syria.. with 200 missiles... as for example.. but the loader
carry lets say 20 missiles.. This means that even if the missiles have 100% interception rate.. perfect.
and never miss.. once the 20 missiles are used... guess what? you need to refill more missiles. and during
this time of reloading could take half an hour or more. that will be a time the zone defended will be
vulnerable to any attack.. since the AD system used all the missiles.. and need to refill for more..

Air defenses needs to be backed by Airforce.. at this is the Achilles' heel of syria.. you need Airforce
to Push Back enemy combat planes farther away from your borders ...and fire missiles on them ,to interrupt
their attacks ,and force them to do evasive movements to escape your missile.. see this?

But since Syria have no Airforce that could match Israel 250? F-16/F-15s combat jets..
then it have to limit in a Big way ,their defense capabilities and Allow Israel Airforce to try ,try and try
and continue trying .. so even if their missiles are junk... by launching many in big numbers.. sooner or
later they will penetrate the AD system for overwhelming them.  

They way to strenghten significatively your AD systems
1) A powerful modern airforce with trained pilots to intercept israeli planes..
2) Electronic Warfare to jam missiles guidance ,GPS and TV camera .
3)Decoys to make missiles hit the sand... by cloning the signal of your AD systems.
4)strong drones support..
5)Also if you have Energy physical attack weapons , lasers ,microwaves guns? etc.

and there is the saying there is no better defense than Offense..
So start to shutdown israeli planes and bomb their military bases.. will interrupt their entire
operation.. and they will need to switch from Offense to Defense..
But going full offensive against Israel is pushing to a full scale war..
And as you all know ISrael have nukes.. So Russia and Syria Rules of Engagement are mostly defensive
to avoid whenever is possible not needed fights..

If this fight was of Israel vs Russia.. lets say that Israel deployed a base in Ukraine.. and started to bomb
Donetsk and Lugansk.. bombing their buildings.. of Russian allies.. you bet Russian airforce will wipe the
Isreal Airforce big time.. and Israel pushed far away from Russia borders..with S-400s and Russian airfoce
to the point that they will not be in combat range to attack Russia.. This is how air defenses works.. you need
to Push Farther from your borders ,the enemy air force positions..and shut down their AWACS and Intelligence
Planes too ..not allow them to gather intelligence.. but all this scenario is only possible in a real full scale war..
and while Russia can do that , if the fight was next to Russian borders... in Syria , Russia face major limitations
of space and supplies.. any reinforcements needs to travel from long distances.. and in Syria Russia have no much
space to deploy many planes..

Because Syria had many parts of its territory occupied by Terrorist and they have mortars ,rockets and artillery and
drones... and on top of That NATO major powers and ISrael attacking Syria..when Syrian army does not yet
control all its territory then this complicate significantly your AD system.. because it can be hit by terrorist or drones
in positions near.. also all this Rebels zones in Syria can be used for NATO to spy on Syrian Air defenses and
provide a shorter distance of travel for missiles if fired from their positions.

Before S-300 is deployed by Syria in damascus ,they need to first clear all terrorist zones ,near..
so their AD system are not shelled with artillery but also needs Rings of short range defenses around it..
like Pantsirs and TORs.. but also Electronic warfare. and decoys.. and early warning flying radar system
can also help.. with targeting low flying missiles and very dense attacks.

If Russia had 2 giants aircraft carriers.. with 100 planes each.. it could project power anywhere in the world..and
have your places ,from safe distance of enemy positions. THis could significantly reinforce Latakia base..however
all this cost a lot of money too.. so for now Russia will try to keep their military operations as cheap as possible.

Israel airforce humiliated again. Wreckages burning. Very very unprofessional.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

par far wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Militarov wrote:Seems real, video was posted by IDF.

me wonders Iran/Syria/Hezbollah always have their asses kicked by air-force (either US or Israeli) so why Iran is not trying to develop AAD complexes? like behind doors Russia/China help? Industrial espionage?
At level of BUK-2,  or Belorussian OSA modifications?

They are making AD systems they just aren't providing Syria any of them.

They expect the SAA to cover them from Isreali's air attack, which frankly is stupid on Iranian's part.

If you want better coverage deploy your own AD with the Syrian AD, rather then ask Russia to constantly supply the SAA with systems.

It's not Russia's job to protect iran in Syria they have more than the capability to do it themselves.

Hey Seig, how good are the Iranian AD systems? Please be  unbiased here.

Good enough to down Isreali's missile, if the right circumstances are met, the operators are good enough they could probably down a jet or two now and then.

Iran has been making systems based off the S-300's russia gave em. with some short, medium and long-range systems.

Since 2013 they have produced 100ish Talaash's for example.

Iran is just not giving the systems out.

Could this be because of the nuclear deal or Russia told them not to.

No s-300 for Syria.

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5191507/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Actually they need more pantsirs. S-300 wouldn't be manned correctly and they would have to spend their limited number of missiles on small israeli cruise missiles.

the questions being asked around are that nothingyahu was in Moscow hugging Putin, and launching these attacks on syria. lol

Nobody knows wtf is going on anymore.

Isos wrote:No s-300  for Syria.

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5191507/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Actually they need more pantsirs. S-300 wouldn't be manned correctly and they would have to spend their limited number of missiles on small israeli cruise missiles.

Still cannot make sense of the contradictory information regarding whether S-300 has or has not been already delivered to Syria:

http://thesaker.is/syria-sitrep-how-the-russian-general-stuff-is-fooling-the-us-and-israel/

Of course it would make sense that Russia delivers theses systems before saying to reduce the risks of Israelis attacking them before deployment. But the very lukewarm position of Russia regarding recent Israeli aggressions and intense contacts with their leadership make me think that Russia is really trying to remain as neutral as possible in this issue, even when the international law is on the side of Syria and Israel is clearly trying to involve US in a wider scale war, prevent Syrian government from finishing the jihadists and voiding two and a half years of Russian efforts. There is clearly a big amount of talking being done between Russia and Israel from which we do not really know the specifics. Just hope Russia is not fooled (or worse bought) into thinking that Israel will show restrain and settle for anything less than the destruction of its Arab neighbours. The conflict is clearly entering another phase and still not all the positions have been defined, I think we will have to wait still a bit.

I'll tell you something here, if it wasn't for Iran, you'd be 2000 miles from Syria right now. You understand?

PapaDragon wrote:

lulldapull wrote:the questions being asked around are that nothingyahu was in Moscow hugging Putin, and launching these attacks on syria. lol

Nobody knows wtf is going on anymore.

It's not a mystery. Russia is stitching Syria back together and after that they plan on hunkering down for better part of the century.

Iran however is still obsessing over Israel and honestly, Israel is obsessing over Iran. Difference is that Israel is sticking close to it's turf while Iran is trying to use current situation to position itself in the vicinity for next war.

And there lies the issue: Russia wants it quiet, Iran digging in next to Israel will be opposite of quiet.

Iran simply fucked up: they were dragging their feet and doing same stupid shit with Israel while USA was digging in beyond Euphrates. Had they followed Russia's lead DeZ would have been liberated year earlier at least and everything beyond it would have been secured long before SDF would have taken it.

Now they have another USA zone of control and are still doing same dumb crap near Golan while jeopardizing Russia's interests and risking very existence of Syrian state in the process.

Russia just managed to secure Naval presence in Mediterranean with nothing but couple of dozen fighter jets and couple of thousand spec-ops on the ground, something that even USSR at peak power was unable to achieve. And they also got rights to station nuclear vessels there. This was something that USSR could not even dream of having.

You really think they will risk it all because Iran refuses to stop being stupid?

Why do poeple always think Russia has to protect Iran ? They have 0 agreement for that. Before the iranian revolution russians used to destroy their fighters at the border. They don't even sell them weapons. Stop dreaming guys.

Iran didn't even let russian park some bombers to make their work easier in Syria and you think russia will go at war with ten or twenty sukhois and two s-400 against Israel for Iran ?

Iran knew its forces will be targeted if they send them at the Israeli borders. Its their choice not russia's.

LMFS wrote:

Of course it would make sense that Russia delivers theses systems before saying to reduce the risks of Israelis attacking them before deployment. But the very lukewarm position of Russia regarding recent Israeli aggressions and intense contacts with their leadership make me think that Russia is really trying to remain as neutral as possible in this issue, even when the international law

against what cough cough international law? Intl law is not worth a piece of paper it is written on. It is just a set of rules powerful make for small and weak. Rest is only semantic figures on propaganda machines. As for Russia- there is surely many behind scenes negotiations. There are conflict interests of ziodiaspora all over west and Russia and Russian interests. Some arm twisting,blackmailing surely take place.

Isos wrote:Why do poeple always think Russia has to protect Iran ? They have 0 agreement for that. Before the iranian revolution russians used to destroy their fighters at the border. They don't even sell them weapons. Stop dreaming guys.

Iran didn't even let russian park some bombers to make their work easier in Syria and you think russia will go at war with ten or twenty sukhois and two s-400 against Israel for Iran ?

Iran knew its forces will be targeted if they send them at the Israeli borders. Its their choice not russia's.

Iran is creating more problems in/for Syria than positive contributions.
Russia is doing all the heavy lifting, be it on the ground or in terms of diplomacy (e.g. having Bibi in Moscow).

Russia better take the trash out, Iran can enjoy their 2 new Airbus planes, cause santions are back on in August.

You guys crack me up. Entertaining terrorists in moscow won't cause the problem to go away. And FYI, the targeted were and always are the SyAA, and no, Iran is not looking for Russian protection in Syria.......what a joke.

Bibi was in Russia licking Putin's boots so that he could get the go ahead for this... I agree with KiloGolf... for once in my life. Iran needs to pull it's head in and start actually pulling its weight. No point in trying to be sneeki breeki when in such close proximity to the Chosenites and their shithole. Either start pummeling the living crap out of the IDF from afar, under the cover of their own AD (and, I don't know, maybe some air assets as well?) or pack up and go home. I am guessing that Israel got the go ahead because Iran has been attempting to carry out an independent strategy within Syria, not according to the Russian plan.

As for KiloGolf's assessment of the IDF... heh, let's just say mandatory nappies is never really a thing to be proud of in any military force... but that is O/T.

Also, let's not forget that Israel's policy in the MidEast is very expansionist, and the partitioning of Syria has always been a part of this policy.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:
against what cough cough international law? Intl law is not worth a piece of paper it is written on. It is just a set of rules powerful make for small and weak. Rest is only semantic figures on propaganda machines.

This is very true. And nevertheless, respect for international law and restrain is the best that we have and the way to go in order to get more balanced international relationships.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:
As for Russia- there is surely many behind scenes negotiations. There are conflict interests of ziodiaspora all over west and Russia and Russian interests. Some arm twisting,blackmailing surely take place.

Yes, that is what concerns me. Russia wants to develop economically, the zionists are our banking Gods...and Putin is very pragmatic.

lulldapull wrote:You guys crack me up. Entertaining terrorists in moscow won't cause the problem to go away. And FYI, the targeted were and always are the SyAA, and no, Iran is not looking for Russian protection in Syria.......what a joke.

Syrian army isn't the target but Iranian forces. The remaining forces of SAA are fighting against rebels and terrorist. They don't want and didn't try to attack israel since the begining of the civil war.

Assad is not really an issue for israel too. It's better for them to have him as the lider in Syria with russian controling him than a Iranian puppet or Isis.

The problem is iran/israel not israel/SAA.

LMFS wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:
against what cough cough international law? Intl law is not worth a piece of paper it is written on. It is just a set of rules powerful make for small and weak. Rest is only semantic figures on propaganda machines.

This is very true. And nevertheless, respect for international law and restrain is the best that we have and the way to go in order to get more balanced international relationships.

Very true when law is follow up  of balanced power in international relations.  I'm afraid right now there is a tectonic shift in geopolitics so no law will be really applied beside slaw of jungle.

LMFS wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:
As for Russia- there is surely many behind scenes negotiations. There are conflict interests of ziodiaspora all over west and Russia and Russian interests. Some arm twisting,blackmailing surely take place.

Yes, that is what concerns me. Russia wants to develop economically, the zionists are our banking Gods...and Putin is very pragmatic.

In western sphere yes, In Asia no. That' my main hope I dont think Putin will leave Syria to Zionists but Syria/Iran will not get many means to support because of this pressure.

PapaDragon wrote:
It's not a mystery. Russia is stitching Syria back together and after that they plan on hunkering down for better part of the century.

Iran however is still obsessing over Israel and honestly, Israel is obsessing over Iran. Difference is that Israel is sticking close to it's turf while Iran is trying to use current situation to position itself in the vicinity for next war.

And there lies the issue: Russia wants it quiet, Iran digging in next to Israel will be opposite of quiet.

Iran simply fucked up: they were dragging their feet and doing same stupid shit with Israel while USA was digging in beyond Euphrates. Had they followed Russia's lead DeZ would have been liberated year earlier at least and everything beyond it would have been secured long before SDF would have taken it.

Now they have another USA zone of control and are still doing same dumb crap near Golan while jeopardizing Russia's interests and risking very existence of Syrian state in the process.

Russia just managed to secure Naval presence in Mediterranean with nothing but couple of dozen fighter jets and couple of thousand spec-ops on the ground, something that even USSR at peak power was unable to achieve. And they also got rights to station nuclear vessels there. This was something that USSR could not even dream of having.

You really think they will risk it all because Iran refuses to stop being stupid?

So, what are exactly the offensive actions Iran is undertaking against Israel?

KiloGolf wrote:

par far wrote:Hey Seig, how good are the Iranian AD systems? Please be  unbiased here.

Tor-M1 is pretty frickin good. But the mullah's don't seem to be willing to deploy them.

they dont make them and ammo supplies might be restricted

LMFS wrote:
So, what are exactly the offensive actions Iran is undertaking against Israel?

so far they exist and say  zionism is evil?

Isos wrote:
Iran didn't even let russian park some bombers to make their work easier in Syria and you think russia will go at war with ten or twenty sukhois and two s-400 against Israel for Iran ?

do you really think that war is two S-400 and couple of fighters against Israel? in army there is so called chain of commands you know . there are hot lines and non public negotiations. Shooting one Israeli fighter or Russian one wont trigger any war. This is always decided on political level.

None of political indicators are telling about Russo-Israeli conflict. All it is is just negotiations about spheres of influence and economic relations.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:
In western sphere yes, In Asia no. That' my main hope I dont think Putin will leave Syria to Zionists but Syria/Iran will not get many means to support because of this pressure.

You see, as I see it there is always a tandem to any empire, a national political / military structure and an international financial support. That Russia is fighting US establishment is clear, but will Putin refuse having the financial might on their side? I doubt it. And, why is it that Israel can exert pressure on Russia as you mention. Want to think like you but I see concerning developments

SeigSoloyvov wrote:
They are making AD systems they just aren't providing Syria any of them.

They expect the SAA to cover them from Isreali's air attack, which frankly is stupid on Iranian's part.
.

Civilization surviving 4 thousands years it by no means stupid. I dont know what is reality on the ground but surely there mus be problem] ith quantity of their AAD systems and we dont know what was agreed between Russia,Iran and Syria. BTW Iranian budget is very small comparing to enemies.

Perhaps some day we'll see them testing own AADs in Syria

LMFS wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:
In western sphere yes, In Asia no. That' my main hope I dont think Putin will leave Syria to Zionists but Syria/Iran will not get many means to support because of this pressure.

You see, as I see it there is always a tandem to any empire, a national political / military structure and an international financial support. That Russia is fighting US establishment is clear, but will Putin refuse having the financial might on their side? I doubt it. And, why is it that Israel can exert pressure on Russia as you mention. Want to think like you but I see concerning developments

Between conflict and negotiations there is always huge space IMHO. Putin has to play cards he has indeed. Especially that this is his last term hs has to focus on 2 things economy and successor.