T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

But having said that they wont be 100% effective and will need to be cleverly designed to that munitions can be reloaded in the field so the enemy just doesn't keep attacking from the same direction to use up the munitions on one side of the vehicle to make it vulnerable to attack.

I always imagined a "simple" solution to protect tanks from FPV drones is to mount a shotgun (like the Saiga or Vepr) or an AGS-30 grenade launcher with remote detonation rounds to the commander's sights. 



As long as you have some means of detecting the drones before they come into range, taking them out is honestly child's play. If nothing else it would be extremely cheap compared to a quarter million dollar APS shooting shaped charges worth more than the drone its neutralizing.

Obvious downside to that is if the enemy was to attack with multiple drones simultaneously, I'd hope that smoke canisters and EW would be deployed to protect the tank and crew at that point.

now they just have to figure how to smuggle SHORADs close the front to deal with Orlan type tactical recon drones acting as spotter for enemy fires.

The obvious problem is that the AI finds targets and engages them but can't see outside the video image so as you saw as the camera on the mount scanned along the line of targets it could see a target is up and shoot it down again but it could only see targets in the video image at the time so targets at the other end outside of camera view stood up and were not shot at until the camera panned back past them.

Obviously for use against drones you would need some other sensor to detect them and get the camera pointed in their direction for this system to deal with the targets.

Also you need to determine friendly from enemy targets/drones, and also check its field of fire so it is not firing at a drone hovering between your gun platform and friendlies so when you open up on the drone you end up shooting friendly forces as well.

This has an enormous way to go yet.

I always imagined a "simple" solution to protect tanks from FPV drones is to mount a shotgun (like the Saiga or Vepr) or an AGS-30 grenade launcher with remote detonation rounds to the commander's sights.

The problem is that the commanders sights only point in one direction at a time and might not be pointing at the threat when it appears.

The advantage of APS systems like ARENA is that munitions are fixed and cover arcs and the munitions overlap so a missile coming from a single launcher can be engaged with multiple munitions even if the turret does not move.

Having the munition launched upwards and outwards and the wide spray of fragments directed down into the ground means multiple munitions can cover any individual path of a missile, but also that the fragments that miss are all expended into the ground and do not pose a threat to friendly troops or civilians out to several kilometres if you are using a machine gun.

Having double sided munitions that launch fragments up and down could be used for top attack weapons too... fragments launched upwards wont pose a huge threat as they wont be aerodynamic and retain flight speed over enormous distances like a bullet shaped projectile will if it remains point forward.

If nothing else it would be extremely cheap compared to a quarter million dollar APS shooting shaped charges worth more than the drone its neutralizing.

An important factor is that first of all 120K is not 250K, it is half that, so we are talking 1/8th of a million, but more importantly this APS system would defend against drones but also RPGs and ATGMs and GMs of all types, which actually makes it a good investment to keep your vehicle safer on the battlefield.

I think it is money well spent.

Jamming, smoke, camouflage, lasers to dazzle, lasers to destroy... and for those that think that is SciFi BS they have lasers to cut up cranes and cut down trees over very short distances, so blinding or removing a wing from a drone wont be impossible, but also missiles and guns.... not to mention drones that hunt down enemy drones.

The key is to make things multi use... APS protects from missiles and rockets and now drones, Smoke is useful in different situations, lasers can be designed to be used for a variety of purposes, including as a laser radar, as a blinding device for optics, to destroy light items like drones, even to set fire to things remotely, to mark targets for artillery, and to guide laser beam riding weapons., and of course airburst rounds are useful for all sorts of targets in the air and on the ground.

Each system has its place and has features which other systems don't.

ERA started out as only effective against HEAT rounds, but as its design evolved and improved now it reduces the performance of kinetic rounds and problems like the entire ERA package all exploding with one hit due to sympathetic detonations has been solved.

Over time and with use and development and experience these technologies get better and cheaper and more effective.

Standoff cage armour can be integrated into a tanks design and have ERA incorporated into its structure effectively meaning you have ERA and cage armour and then a half metre to metre air pocket and then the ERA on your vehicle and then your vehicles armour, and then an inner anti spall liner.

You will also have material like Nakidka that was draped over your ERA armour originally but now would make more sense over the cage armour.

In fact I would say the next development would be cage armour covered in Nakidka material to hide the vehicle from radar and IR sensors, but with external cage mounted radar and EO sensors as well as mast mounted sensors poking out the top so your visibility is not effected, with an APS system that can intercept incoming threats, rockets, missiles, and drones... as well as EW jamming equipment and perhaps laser based weapons to blind or even shoot down drones at close range.

The external cage and material protection can have doors and ladders built into it so the crew can get into and out of the vehicle easily enough, with the design allowing turret traverse... you could have part of the cage extending over the barrel and have the radar absorbing and IR absorbing material hung over the cage structure so it covers the gun without actually touching the gun... maybe half a metre separation so the gun is obscured from radar and IR systems too...

Such cages would make aiming for weak spots on the tank more difficult which will improve survivability too.

Having fixed video cameras providing 360 degree views of the terrain around the vehicle actually would make the AI systems more effective.

As I mentioned above the AI system controlling the remote machine gun can only detect targets in the cameras field of view so you have to continuously scan around looking for targets and of course targets can see where you are looking and duck down as you turn towards them and then pop up and fire at you when you turn away.... having multiple cameras all pointing in different directions with an onboard computer that stitches the video images together in real time means you could not only use VR goggles so while sitting inside the tank you have an unobstructed view of the battlefield around your vehicle without opening your hatch, but that video feed can be scanned by the AI software for threats and targets to alert the crew and automatically activate APS systems or remote weapon stations if the latter are fast enough.

A dual feed grenade launcher with anti drone round that explode at a specific distance would be rather useful when paired with a laser range finder that perhaps could also be a dazzler and also physically destroy some types of drone. The main limitation of lasers is their effective range in different atmospheric conditions, but if the target comes to you then a FPV drone that zooms in close and climbs up and tries to dive down and hit your turret would be an ideal target for a short range laser or shotgun based defence system which are most effective at very short range.

Of course camouflage means not being spotted in the first place, but obviously when you have to move then remaining hidden becomes rather tricky.

New cage armour could be made rather practical too offering space to put material the crew might want like water or comfortable mattresses, and perhaps extra HMG ammo or even drones with the electrical connections to charge the drones while the tank is operating and allowing drones to be launched to scout ahead if needed.

Perhaps a drone on a tether with MMW and IIR sensors could be launched vertically 500-700m or so to reveal enemy positions and the terrain ahead... being powered via the tether and with a fibre optic cable transmitting target data directly to the tank which can then transmit it to other platforms and HQ.

Drones are a problem, but Tanks were a problem when they first appeared on the battlefield... anti armour weapons were developed... land mines adapted to destroy armoured vehicles as well as people, and artillery and anti aircraft guns were adapted for use against heavy ground vehicles too.

Tanks didn't stop being made, they improved and adapted and tactics were developed to reduce the danger of some threats... mine rollers, mine ploughs, mine clearing charges, mine/IED jammers, EMP devices to disable remote detonation systems...

The same pattern with aircraft, with body armour, with submarines, with ships, with helicopters... now it is drones.

It is likely to evolve... a lot of the current stuff turns the tank into artillery with no ability to turn the turret... it is like someone dropped a barn on the tank which reduces visibility and the capacity to use a turret properly... I suspect it also makes the smoke launchers and optics useless too.

If you think of it as a border fence, then the first models were simple and quick.

The next ones will be better thought out and more practical to allow an extra layer of ERA to be fitted, plus smoke and plenty of room for externally mounted launchers for cassettes to intercept incoming threats.

If you think about the original ARENA with a ring around the turret with upward firing munitions that are launched upwards and fire fragments down into the path of incoming threats... with a layer that has a gap of 1-2 metres whose surface includes ERA blocks and radar and thermal screens that might hide the signature or even show something else like the IR or radar signature of a tractor or a bush or a large rock. The top could be fitted with hatches for the crew to board easily through the cage, but also with upward firing munitions to intercept threats and drones.

Sensors like optics and radar and even drones (tethered or not tethered) could be raised via masts clear of the cage like periscopes on a submarine... it could hide behind bushes and loft HE rounds at distant targets or guided top attack missiles to attack enemy vehicles.

A factor is that the cage will be covered in ERA blocks and fabric material to hide the signature of the vehicle... inside might be a MBT, but equally it could be a small vehicle like a Tigr or Typhoon... the cage for the turret to allow the turret to rotate and elevate with signature reduction materials half a metre off the barrel means that barrel could be a 125mm or a 30mm or a 57mm cannon... you could only tell when it fires or if it is pointing directly at you.

Another factor is that in combat targeting weak spots will be more difficult because most wont be visible.

PhSt wrote:
...I guess the recent action by Youtube gives some proof to my speculation that RDF is constantly monitored by NATO high command.

That is known in general for any information that is not alligned with the western narrative.
Every time something happens the Bots get active.

I have seen it on this forum several times where "Users" have been created somewhere between 2014 and 2020 with only a dozen posts.

Year long inactivity of these Bots then becoming highly active after such terror attacks like on Crimea bridge or murder of Darya Dugina and many other examples.

Sadly, just because you are paranoid doesn't mean the whole western world isn't out to get you...

having problems please hold

New thread continues here.