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speaking with armata mbt in mind, i think an unmanned turret with a potentially heavier(and certainly more powerful) gun system would still be lighter than a manned turret with lighter vanilla gun system. and turret and gun movement for the latter is fast enough- the former should be even faster. the rof is not a problem too, first look first shot is the name of the game anyway, but higher rof is always good. you are right about the need for lighter sabots, just hope they make them affordable. read they cost huge chunk of really pricy murican apfsds and sabot rounds need to be "pumped" quite a few times into enemy armor(esp. moving) to ensure reliable chance of igniting ammo and fuel and kill crew. and that wont really work if you can only carry a couple onboard.victor1985 wrote:
but in this you need powerfull cannon and lighter sabot.... and big cannon mean extra weight for tank so move slower also the turret move slower wich is important. Rate of fire is also affected cause big cannon make big shockwave wich means fewer fires can be made in a minute.also the shockwave make the barrel shake so must wait until stop. Bigger cannon bigger and long time shake.
+59
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[Official] Armata Discussion thread #1
collegeboy16- Posts : 1135
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Join date : 2012-10-05
Age : 28
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victor1985- Posts : 632
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Join date : 2015-01-02
You have right. Often the rule is first seen first shoot. But.... this means is about effective range that you dont know cause every tank has a armour that is beaten from different distances whith different velocityes. Practically means if two tanks enemy whit each other no matter when they discover enemy at least discover in time they are out of enemy range and in own practic range of cannon. Means that a poor cannon must first get a hit then approach enemy and hit too. When you have countermeasures doesnt look so bad to have a poor cannon. Or better said a lighter one. Cause whith countermeasures lighter cannon mean more speed so fast approach in own effective range.
Point is a tank must hit whit the sabot a essential part of enemy tank. Cause the sabot do damage only by penetrating armour. A sensor of pressure and split in srapnels after penetrating is a good way to do more damage. Or a grenade in the back of tail....
Point is a tank must hit whit the sabot a essential part of enemy tank. Cause the sabot do damage only by penetrating armour. A sensor of pressure and split in srapnels after penetrating is a good way to do more damage. Or a grenade in the back of tail....
GarryB- Posts : 40511
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The problem with the 30mm cannon is that while it is still effective against aircraft and soft ground targets like cars and trucks and MRAPs, its primary function should include engaging enemy IFVs and most of them are over 30 tons in weight.
The advantage of going to a much heavier gun is that for most targets an APHE round is possible that is vastly more effective than HEAT or APFSDS in terms of lethality because of its secondary effects on target.
A 57mm gun wont need max penetration against an MRAP or M113 APC or even a Marine landing vehicle.
Having a full bore calibre penetrator with a HE charge will make it rather more lethal even if it is not able to penetrate as much armour as a much higher performing APFSDS round.
APHE are cheaper and likely more accurate and more effective against things like bunkers and light armoured vehicles and indeed aircraft.
Lower rate of fire is not important if the rounds are guided or just accurately placed on target.
The advantage of going to a much heavier gun is that for most targets an APHE round is possible that is vastly more effective than HEAT or APFSDS in terms of lethality because of its secondary effects on target.
A 57mm gun wont need max penetration against an MRAP or M113 APC or even a Marine landing vehicle.
Having a full bore calibre penetrator with a HE charge will make it rather more lethal even if it is not able to penetrate as much armour as a much higher performing APFSDS round.
APHE are cheaper and likely more accurate and more effective against things like bunkers and light armoured vehicles and indeed aircraft.
Lower rate of fire is not important if the rounds are guided or just accurately placed on target.
George1- Posts : 18514
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Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
How Will Russia Unveil Its Top-Secret T-14 Battle Tank? Details Revealed
The new T-14 tank on the Armata platform will be presented at a night-time parade rehearsal as soon as Friday, but it's likely that arms experts will not be able to learn much about it.
The Russian next-generation T-14 Armata main battle tank, due to be unveiled at the Red Square Victory Day parade in Moscow on May 9 will appear in public at an advance parade rehearsal, according to a source in the defense industry, Russian news site Lenta.Ru reported.
The latest rehearsal for what is planned to be the biggest Victory Day parade in Russia's recent history is scheduled for Friday, at 6:45 a.m., so it's possible that the Armata tank will appear as soon as this week.
However, the tank will appear in a camouflage that will distort it's silhouette and make it impossible to examine its exact configuration. The technique, practiced by car manufacturers to protect prospective models from espionage, will likely be adapted for the Armata. One existing technology to conceal a tank's shape is the Nakidka, developed by Moscow's Steel Research Institute, which also conceals a tank's thermal, infrared and radar signatures.
The first 20 T-14 Armata main battle tanks were handed over to the military earlier in February. It was initially thought that the new tank would be revealed then, but authorities decided to keep the tank's details a secret.
The T-14 (Object 149) main battle tank is based on the Armata platform, which has been in development at Uralvagonzavod since 2009. Other than the tank, the platform will be used for armored fighting vehicles (AFVs), self-propelled guns (SPGs), engineering vehicles and other uses.
The Armata tank will reportedly feature a remotely controlled gun and fully automated loading, as well as a separate crew compartment made from composite materials and protected by multilayered armor.
The tank will go through state trials in 2016, and it is expected that by 2020, over 2,300 tanks on the Armata platform will be supplied to the military.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150225/1018747955.html#ixzz3Sqm8vS00
The new T-14 tank on the Armata platform will be presented at a night-time parade rehearsal as soon as Friday, but it's likely that arms experts will not be able to learn much about it.
The Russian next-generation T-14 Armata main battle tank, due to be unveiled at the Red Square Victory Day parade in Moscow on May 9 will appear in public at an advance parade rehearsal, according to a source in the defense industry, Russian news site Lenta.Ru reported.
The latest rehearsal for what is planned to be the biggest Victory Day parade in Russia's recent history is scheduled for Friday, at 6:45 a.m., so it's possible that the Armata tank will appear as soon as this week.
However, the tank will appear in a camouflage that will distort it's silhouette and make it impossible to examine its exact configuration. The technique, practiced by car manufacturers to protect prospective models from espionage, will likely be adapted for the Armata. One existing technology to conceal a tank's shape is the Nakidka, developed by Moscow's Steel Research Institute, which also conceals a tank's thermal, infrared and radar signatures.
The first 20 T-14 Armata main battle tanks were handed over to the military earlier in February. It was initially thought that the new tank would be revealed then, but authorities decided to keep the tank's details a secret.
The T-14 (Object 149) main battle tank is based on the Armata platform, which has been in development at Uralvagonzavod since 2009. Other than the tank, the platform will be used for armored fighting vehicles (AFVs), self-propelled guns (SPGs), engineering vehicles and other uses.
The Armata tank will reportedly feature a remotely controlled gun and fully automated loading, as well as a separate crew compartment made from composite materials and protected by multilayered armor.
The tank will go through state trials in 2016, and it is expected that by 2020, over 2,300 tanks on the Armata platform will be supplied to the military.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150225/1018747955.html#ixzz3Sqm8vS00
collegeboy16- Posts : 1135
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Join date : 2012-10-05
Age : 28
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HOLY SH!T 
, is this for realsies? like tomorrow friday? dayum, would make for a great treat after exams. hope its clad in official camo, not in just mere tarp tho.
, is this for realsies? like tomorrow friday? dayum, would make for a great treat after exams. hope its clad in official camo, not in just mere tarp tho.
Cpt Caz- Posts : 86
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Join date : 2013-09-08
Bochkarev: the cost of tanks "Armata" will be reduced
РИА Новости http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150227/1049933241.html#ixzz3T06TyiLk
MOSCOW, February 27 - RIA Novosti. Reduced prices for armored vehicles on the platform "Armata" will be made by simplifying the system and non-small-demand parameters, said in an interview with RIA Novosti deputy chairman of the board of the Military-Industrial Commission under the President of the Russian Federation Oleg Bochkarev.
Earlier it was reported that the Ministry of Defense and the Military-Industrial Commission dissatisfied with the high cost of tanks "Armata". Uralvagonzavod, which produces this technique, promised to reduce the cost. According Bochkareva, tools that will be used to reduce the price quite a lot.
"As for the price point, it is very important. We may give up some" bells and whistles ". Also, we will go the way of simplifying some systems. The characteristics that we have provided - a very expensive solution. Simplify some things we do not lose the properties this machine, but save a lot in price, "- said Bochkarev.
He noted that the new technology is expensive, does not go in the series - and this is caused by the high cost of the proposed machines. According to the deputy chairman of the board of MIC on the technique that goes into pilot operation Branch, will be all that "invented" the industry.
"Everything was done at the request of the customer, and when the operation starts, it becomes clear that a small parameter in demand, so it can be waived", - said the agency.
Bochkarev confirmed that the pilot operation troop of tanks "Armata" will begin in early 2016.
Ground forces of the Russian Federation in 2020 plan to renew the fleet of armored vehicles by 70%, and the purchase of modern serial samples will begin in 2016. In troops should enter the tank platform "Armata" armored personnel carrier "Boomerang", infantry fighting vehicle "Kurganets-25" and family cars "Typhoon". Tanks "Armata" will take part in the Victory Parade on Red Square this year.
РИА Новости http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150227/1049933241.html#ixzz3T06TyiLk
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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Nice 
"Rostec": new equipment integrates tanks "Armata" into a single management system in action
"Rostec": new equipment integrates tanks "Armata" into a single management system in action
George1- Posts : 18514
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Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
New Russian Tank Armata to Receive Fifth Generation Radio Communication Means
![[Official] Armata Discussion thread #1 - Page 36 1329848160_05-e1425316713891](https://rostechnologiesblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/1329848160_05-e1425316713891.jpg)
United Instrument Manufacturing Corporation (included in Rostec) developed unified software and hardware complex (UPTK), which will be part of a new generation of tanks “Armata”. The complex includes a fifth-generation radio communication means, corporation representative said on Monday.
“The system allows the technique to solve the majority of problems in an automated mode with minimal crew participation and integrates every fighting machine into a single system of tactical control. The UPTK structure consists of fifth-generation radio communication means developed by the concern “Sozvezdie”, in particular, automation and control means, navigation equipment,” was said in a statement.
According to the developers, the complex implemented “a complete set of functions required of modern tanks”. Its use allows you to “automate most of the process and minimize the participation of the crew”. The complex is uniform and in the future will be installed not only in tanks, but in other military equipment.
https://rostechnologiesblog.wordpress.com/2015/03/02/new-russian-tank-armata-to-receive-fifth-generation-radio-communication-means/
United Instrument Manufacturing Corporation (included in Rostec) developed unified software and hardware complex (UPTK), which will be part of a new generation of tanks “Armata”. The complex includes a fifth-generation radio communication means, corporation representative said on Monday.
“The system allows the technique to solve the majority of problems in an automated mode with minimal crew participation and integrates every fighting machine into a single system of tactical control. The UPTK structure consists of fifth-generation radio communication means developed by the concern “Sozvezdie”, in particular, automation and control means, navigation equipment,” was said in a statement.
According to the developers, the complex implemented “a complete set of functions required of modern tanks”. Its use allows you to “automate most of the process and minimize the participation of the crew”. The complex is uniform and in the future will be installed not only in tanks, but in other military equipment.
https://rostechnologiesblog.wordpress.com/2015/03/02/new-russian-tank-armata-to-receive-fifth-generation-radio-communication-means/
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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Here's an updated version of the fan-made T-14 Armata model that I posted earlier in the thread, I think they renamed it the T-15 BMPT :
:
zg18- Posts : 888
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Join date : 2013-09-26
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First images 
![[Official] Armata Discussion thread #1 - Page 36 QUj4c35](https://i.imgur.com/qUj4c35.jpg)
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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zg18 wrote:First images
So '7' track wheels confirmed?
Stealthflanker- Posts : 1459
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hmm and turret looks quite high
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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Stealthflanker wrote:hmm and turret looks quite high
Most likely panoramic sights, the tarp most likely is giving an illusion of making the turret look much bigger than it probably really is. For example just look how high the panoramic sight sits sticking up vertically on top of the BMPT turret, combined with the twin 30mm cannons sticking out horizontally...if you placed a tarp over the BMPT turret, it would probably look much bigger than it actually is:
![[Official] Armata Discussion thread #1 - Page 36 Bmpt-turret](https://russellphillips.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/bmpt-turret.jpg)
Then again, this is just my humble opinion.
mack8- Posts : 1039
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Join date : 2013-08-02
Thank dog they haven't covered the T-50 like that when they unveiled it first time, you can't see anything! Hope they didn't left out protection for road wheels and tracks (same for Kurganets).
Cyberspec- Posts : 2904
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There doesn't seem to be a bore evacuator on the gun 
akd- Posts : 23
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Cyberspec wrote:There doesn't seem to be a bore evacuator on the gun
Turret is unmanned.
Cyberspec- Posts : 2904
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Good point.
And the comparisons have begun...
![[Official] Armata Discussion thread #1 - Page 36 20150323215758-d0d1e492](https://2img.net/h/gallery.without.ru/upload/2015/03/23/20150323215758-d0d1e492.jpg)
And the comparisons have begun...
Werewolf- Posts : 5927
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Cyberspec wrote:Good point.
And the comparisons have begun...
That comperision is already bad.
The wheels are bigger on Armata with 7 tracks and that comperision makes both chassis to seem equal in length.
We will have to wait for 9th May, i guess they will parade T-14 along with T-90A's or Buratino or any vehicle that uses T-72/90 chassis.
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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Werewolf wrote:Cyberspec wrote:Good point.
And the comparisons have begun...
That comperision is already bad.
The wheels are bigger on Armata with 7 tracks and that comperision makes both chassis to seem equal in length.
We will have to wait for 9th May, i guess they will parade T-14 along with T-90A's or Buratino or any vehicle that uses T-72/90 chassis.
Why the skepticism? Cant you see with that image we're in fact engaging in the highest level of NATO forensic analysis, high level forensic tools such as photoshop, twitter/facebook analysis, and most importantly for information gathering...the game of 'telephone' are at our disposal...
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4888
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magnumcromagnon wrote:
Why the skepticism? Cant you see with that image we're in fact engaging in the highest level of NATO forensic analysis, high level forensic tools such as photoshop, twitter/facebook analysis, and most importantly for information gathering...the game of 'telephone' are at our disposal...
+1 ROFL
Zivo- Posts : 1487
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Hmm. Armata looks like it might have a small bustle and auxiliary weapons like on the KBTM model. Look at the barrel shaped protrusion on the side of the turret, it's at the same angle as the main gun.
Werewolf- Posts : 5927
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AZZKIKR- Posts : 41
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Oddly enough, from this angle doesnt seem like any of the designs or concept art provided.
TR1- Posts : 5435
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![[Official] Armata Discussion thread #1 - Page 36 F46cb848e3ad](https://2img.net/h/s020.radikal.ru/i715/1503/bd/f46cb848e3ad.jpg)
Werewolf- Posts : 5927
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![[Official] Armata Discussion thread #1 - Page 36 Ufw3jkpu](https://2img.net/h/fs1.directupload.net/images/150324/ufw3jkpu.jpg)
plus, minus 8 cm.