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    Russian Economy General News: #5

    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:37 pm

    kvs wrote:Austin systematically ignores my posts and repeats the drivel above.   Gazprom debt is not state debt and Siluanov should just shut up.
    Here we see one of Russia's main problems: too many idiots in high places who don't even know to keep their traps shut.   The Chinese
    have a saying that the mouth is the source of all calamity and I fully agree.   Siluanov's ignorant blather damages Russia's economy.  

    Austin is the Cassandra (prophetess of doom) of RDF....I remember reading articles about the imminent bankruptsy of Russia since I joined the forum Smile
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:52 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    kvs wrote:Austin systematically ignores my posts and repeats the drivel above.   Gazprom debt is not state debt and Siluanov should just shut up.
    Here we see one of Russia's main problems: too many idiots in high places who don't even know to keep their traps shut.   The Chinese
    have a saying that the mouth is the source of all calamity and I fully agree.   Siluanov's ignorant blather damages Russia's economy.  

    Austin is the Cassandra (prophetess of doom) of RDF....I remember reading articles about the imminent bankruptsy of Russia since I joined the forum Smile

    Sanctions caused the Russian economy to shrink by $1 trillion....REMEMBER.... Wink lol1 Austin had some classic "Da Sky is Falling!!!11!" articles and posts lol!
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    Post  Austin Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:03 am

    Gazprom and Rosneft amoung other are state run companies as they hold more than 50 % shares

    http://www.gazprom.com/investors/stock/

    They get prefential treatment when it comes to allocating Energy Assset like in Arctic.

    If state owns it and get the profit then state also responsible to bear the loss. Thats how it runs every where.

    The Finance Minister did not invent those figures from thin air these are supported and accepted by Duma and has been the case for many years.

    You need to get your logic right Laughing
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    Post  sepheronx Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:35 am

    You make a good poi.t Austin, as I always enjoy reading what you have to say even if I get critical. But you also just pointed out something. Rus gov owns not 100% of these organizations. So technically, not 100% of the debt falls on them but also falls on the other members. At that point, if something happens and they need to default, Rus gov can purchase the shares and gain 100% control of the company (so long as the others actually want to give up the shares).

    Look at Trump industries. 4 chapter 11 bankruptcies and he still owns the company making billions. Which really makes me hate economics overall as it proves its a sham.
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    Post  Austin Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:52 am

    ITs about majority stake holder of company , for eg in India the International Airline Air India is owned by Government the government constantly bails them out and they are bad in managing.

    The government bails them out with public money which means the money from from Budget or government has to borrow which comes from Public Debt , Money that can be spent more effeciently on other project instead of propping a loss making organisation.

    Same goes for Russian State controlled organisation , Ofcourse if the stakes are controlled by private players like Rosneft has some control by BP then they bear the losses equally as much as profit.

    So there is no denying the fact that these are government entities controlled by state and responsible for its debt/loss or profit depending how much is their control


    I wont dispute the figures coming from Government as these statistic is not invented yesterday and something the government used the same stastics so far , Lets take as face value instead of bad mouthing them.

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    Post  sepheronx Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:25 am

    I wont be able to though since technically, if it isnt 100% owned, it isnt 100% govs responsibility in its debt.  As well, the companys are called state owned by name only as the state is the largest investor. But that doesnt mean much anyway.  There are plenty of options and things to do that would help themselves out.

    We will have to agree to disagree.  And the politicians arent all knowing either. Many have their own agendas as I pointed out, and many of them have been wrong on multitude of times as I have also pointed out. Nothing wrong in that. What is wrong though is constantly screaming "The sky is falling" when it isnt even close to that (not referring you but the politicians).
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    Post  kvs Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:34 pm

    Austin doesn't get to use his own definition of sovereign debt. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

    http://www.bnn.ca/News/2013/6/19/Canada-net-foreign-debt-drops-almost-25.aspx

    http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/canada-s-net-foreign-debt-down-41-1b-to-66-2b-in-q3-statscan-1.1586522

    See above if you want an example of the loose definition of foreign debt.

    The Russian state does not underwrite Gazprom's debt. If Gazprom defaults then the Russian state is not obliged to pay in its
    stead. Until Austin admits this fact he is blowing smoke up our asses with his silly posts.
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    Post  kvs Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:38 pm

    sepheronx wrote:I wont be able to though since technically, if it isnt 100% owned, it isnt 100% govs responsibility in its debt.  As well, the companys are called state owned by name only as the state is the largest investor. But that doesnt mean much anyway.  There are plenty of options and things to do that would help themselves out.

    We will have to agree to disagree.  And the politicians arent all knowing either. Many have their own agendas as I pointed out, and many of them have been wrong on multitude of times as I have also pointed out. Nothing wrong in that. What is wrong though is constantly screaming "The sky is falling" when it isnt even close to that (not referring you but the politicians).

    Even the part the government owns does apply to debt liability.   Gazprom's debt is commercial debt and the lenders take their chances.
    There are no state guarantees behind Gazporm's debt.    Austin totally ignores this aspect.   Owning shares in companies shields the state
    from liability.   The worst that happens is that the share owner is left with worthless shares.   Have you ever heard of shareholders required
    by law to pay the debts of the company whose shares they own?   No.  There is no such thing.   Please don't pollute this board with anymore
    of your crap hysterical BS, Austin.

    BTW, the CBR's peculiar counting of Russian debt demonstrates that it is a compromised outfit serving interests aside from those of Russia.
    Various propaganda spigots pick up on its fluffed up government debt number and wave it in everyone's face. Of course, if they were
    honest journalists they would correct the CBR nonsense and use the same definition as the USA. The US does not even count municipal
    and state debt as part of the national public debt.
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    Post  Austin Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:24 am

    You Smart Alec type comment shows you have lost it.

    If Gazprom pr Rosneft sinks the government will bail it out , it wont let these companies that provide 40 % of Budget revenue to just sink and let lakhs of people go jobless.

    Russian Government owns Gazprom and it is entitled of Gazprom Profit as much it is entitled of its loss.

    Its a very normal things to do happens even in US where they even bail out private banks and companies forget the public ones and that happens at the cost of National Debt Very Happy


    As far as stastics goes I dont invent them , those are official FM stastics , something the State Duma and Russian State Auditing uses it , so no one can dispute those in any way.

    The Russian Government is not the Chinese and US government using Shanghai Stastics to fake things Very Happy

    The CBR head has the support of Putin and that says enough isnt it or even Putin is a CIA tool Laughing Laughing
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    Post  max steel Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:17 am

    Any idea on Russian purchasing power currently ? Is it diminishing ?

    Austin ji thoda economy ko chod ke Military stuff pr zyada gyaan bata karo respekt
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    Post  sepheronx Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:30 am

    It is roughly 3.3T. It diminished a bit thanks to inflation.

    Austin is correct in that they would try to bail out the companies, he is very correct on that. But thanks to sanctions, there is the idea that they can let gazprom go bankrupt (chpt 11) and keep its assets but change company name. Who will take the assets? Not like anyone from US or France will come in to take it. But the drawback for that will be any future loans you can kiss goodbye as well as potential partners too. Catch 22.

    I think the companies should also be looking at each other for loans. For example, Novatek needs money to fund Yamal, roughly $20B. Something both Rosneft and Gazprom have. Why not they lend 5 - 10B each and then someone else can fund the rest. Will make it easier plus the other companies will have a stake in Yamal which is guaranteed to make money anyway.

    They could do it, but for some reason dont.
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    Post  Austin Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:31 pm

    max steel wrote:Any idea on Russian purchasing power currently ? Is it diminishing ?

    Austin ji thoda economy ko chod ke Military stuff pr zyada gyaan bata karo respekt

    Thanks Max , Really tired of Military Stuff pale
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    Post  zg18 Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:42 pm

    In basic terms, as reported by BOFIT, per Rosstat, Russian seasonally-adjusted retail sales (by volume) fell more than 10% y/y in September, with non-food sales driving the figure deeper into the red. On the ‘upside’, services sales to households fell less than overall retail sales. This accelerates the rate of decline in household consumption expenditure - over 1H 2015, expenditure fell just under 9% y/y. Small silver lining to this cloud is that household debt continued to decline as Russian households withdrew from the credit markets and focused on increased savings (most likely precautionary savings).

    Russian households are not the only ones that are saving. Overall external debt of the Russian Federation fell, again, in 3Q 2015, with preliminary data from the Central Bank of Russia figures putting total foreign debt at USD522bn as of end-September, down just over USD30bn compared to 2Q 2015. Per official estimates, ca 50 percent of the overall reduction q/q in external debt came from repayment of credit due, while the other 50 percent was down to devaluation of the ruble (ca 20 percent of Russian external debt was issued in Rubles).

    Overall, 3Q 2015 saw some USD40 billion of external debt maturing, which means that over 1/4 of that debt was rolled over by the non-bank corporations. Per CBR estimates, ca 40% of the external debt owed by the Russian non-bank corporations relates to intragroup loans - basically debt owed across subsidiaries of the same percent entity. And over recent quarters, this type of debt has been increasing as the proportion of total debt, most likely reflecting two sub-trends:
    1) increasing refinancing of inter-group loans using intra-group funds; and
    2) increasing conversion of intra-group investments/equity into intragroup debt (and/or some conversion of FDI equity into intra-group debt).

    Over the next 12 months (from the start of 4Q 2015), Russian foreign debt maturity profile covers USD87 billion in maturing obligations against country currency reserves of USD370 billion-odd. As noted by BOFIT, “A common rule-of-thumb suggests that a country’s reserves need to be sufficient to cover at least 100% of its short-term foreign debt to avoid liquidity problems.” Russia’s current cover is closer to 430%. And that is absent further ruble devaluations.

    Russian Economy General News: #5 - Page 30 Screen%2BShot%2B2015-10-28%2Bat%2B15.41.46

    http://trueeconomics.blogspot.hr/2015/10/281015-russian-economy-update.html
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    Post  kvs Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:55 pm

    zg18 wrote:

    Russian Economy General News: #5 - Page 30 Screen%2BShot%2B2015-10-28%2Bat%2B15.41.46

    http://trueeconomics.blogspot.hr/2015/10/281015-russian-economy-update.html

    Let's reconcile the CBR's bogus $322 billion "state debt" claim with the above servicing costs. Given that Russia has a BB- rating there is no
    way in Hell it can have interest costs that are so small. The above servicing costs are consistent with a $39 billion sovereign/state debt.
    The Bank of Finland would not make some amateur mistake like confusing corporate debt with sovereign debt.
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    Post  kvs Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:41 pm

    sepheronx wrote:It is roughly 3.3T. It diminished a bit thanks to inflation.

    Austin is correct in that they would try to bail out the companies, he is very correct on that. But thanks to sanctions, there is the idea that they can let gazprom go bankrupt (chpt 11) and keep its assets but change company name. Who will take the assets? Not like anyone from US or France will come in to take it.  But the drawback for that will be any future loans you can kiss goodbye as well as potential partners too. Catch 22.

    I think the companies should also be looking at each other for loans. For example, Novatek needs money to fund Yamal, roughly $20B. Something both Rosneft and Gazprom have. Why not they lend 5 - 10B each and then someone else can fund the rest. Will make it easier plus the other companies will have a stake in Yamal which is guaranteed to make money anyway.

    They could do it, but for some reason dont.

    Sorry but even if Gazprom defaults it will not be cut off from capital markets. The biggest gas company on the planet with the biggest reserves
    is not going to experience lack of investor interest. In fact, the current Gazprom debt is basically zero risk to the lenders. And Russia does not
    need to worry about servicing Gazprom's debt.
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    Post  sepheronx Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:20 pm

    Maybe. It would also be easier to name change as well.
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    Post  kvs Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:16 pm

    Russian Economy General News: #5 - Page 30 309368_original

    As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. The above is a good metric of the Russian economy. You can
    see the 1990s depression and even the 2009 recession. In 2014 we were being brainwashed by the NATO MSM and its
    parrots that the Russian economy was collapsing. The above graphic shows no evidence of any decline whatsoever.

    This graphic is excellent since it measures the economic state of the consumer. Russia has broken the all time high
    for the USSR period for passenger flights.
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    Post  ExBeobachter1987 Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:56 am

    Karl Haushofer wrote:There were all kinds of food shortages in the country in the 1980's. Or why do you think common people were willing to spend hours standing in lines to buy food? This was the case even in Moscow. Wonder what it was like in Krasnoyarsk or Omsk then.

    No worse than in Moscow. My parents have never told me about food shortages in Omsk during their studenthood in the 1980s.

    Anyway, some good news for our critical Finn.

    Indonesia To Buy Four Russian Beriev BE-200 Amphibious Aircraft

    Indonesia will buy four Russian Beriev BE-200 aircraft for its armed forces and for cloud seeding to extinguish forest or land fires.

    "We have submitted the proposal and included it in our strategic plan to buy four aircraft. This would be sufficient," the countrys Air Force Chief of Staff, Marshal Agus Supriatna, stated after meeting Vice President Jusuf Kalla here on Friday, according to Antara news.

    He noted that the Beriev BE-200 aircraft is ideal for conducting water bombing operations in areas affected by fires. With additional Beriev aircraft being deployed to conduct cloud seeding operations, we would also be able to complete the operations quickly, he added.

    To extinguish the current fires in Sumatra, the government has leased two Russian amphibious aircraft to conduct cloud seeding operations to create artificial rain. "Many sorties are needed. An aircraft needs 20 to 30 minutes to fetch water from the sea and 15 to 17 seconds to load before flying for 30 minutes to reach a location," he was quoted as saying by Antara news.

    During the government of former president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, two BE-200 aircraft had been used to conduct a similar operation for several months and were leased on a contract worth up to US$5.4 million. Indonesia has also been offered the option to buy the aircraft.
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    Post  Austin Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:18 am

    Ministry of Finance: The aim is to reach a balanced budget in the Russian Federation in 2019

    http://ria.ru/economy/20151031/1311513303.html


    "Options for 2017 already marked. Of course, the prognosis should be discussed. I can say that the federal budget deficit for 2017 adopted at the level of 2% of GDP, while in 2016 - 3%. In 2018 - just 1%. The goal in 2019 to enter the non-deficit budget, "- said Lavrov.

    He stressed that while it is impossible to say that this detailed forecast, but rather a concept.

    Lavrov pointed out that the budget forecast for 2017 is more positive than in 2016. The Ministry of Finance plans to reduce the budget deficit by 1% due to cost containment.


    In particular, the agency has developed a number of measures to control the allocation of subsidies. Among them - the refund previously introduced subsidies on treasury accounts with the further distribution. In that case, if the subject did not realize a subsidy from the federal government and has no plans to redeploy their other needs, they will be returned to the state budget.

    Lavrov said the priority will remain "subsidies on social services, grants to support the housing sector and subsidies in agriculture."

    The draft budget for next year was introduced by the Government to the State Duma on October 23. Revenues are projected at 13.738 trillion rubles, expenses - 16.098 trillion rubles. The budget deficit will amount to 2.36 trillion rubles, or 3% of GDP. Document been drawn up for the next year based on the inflation rate not exceeding 6.4%.
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    Post  Austin Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:45 am

    Nice Video , Do Watch

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    Post  Austin Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:01 am

    Very good read

    Russia Leaps Up World Bank 'Ease of Doing Business' Rankings - Refuting Claims of Corruption and Backwardness
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    Post  higurashihougi Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:22 am

    From the Communists, again.

    It is slightly related to the airliner accident but I believe it is more suitable in here.

    https://www.rt.com/politics/320494-communist-leader-promotes-referendum-on/

    The head of the Russian Communist Party has reiterated demands to hold a nationwide referendum on the possibility of nationalization of all major companies, saying only state control would help to prevent disasters such as the A321 air crash in Sinai.

    “The ongoing crisis, including that in the aircraft building industry, is proof they can’t answer the challenges of the future. Nationalization of oligarchs’ property is long due and we hold that a nationwide referendum on the issue would seriously improve the situation,” Gennadiy Zyuganov was quoted as saying by Interfax.

    The Communist chief again suggested replacing the Russian cabinet with a “government of people’s trust,” which would have more representatives from various political parties. “Our crisis is in essence a man-made phenomenon and without a reshuffle in the government, without a government of people’s trust, it will be difficult to get out of this situation,” Zyuganov stated.
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    Post  sepheronx Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:22 am

    Are the communists not aware that they do not make A321's? Has nothing to do with domestic manufacturers.

    I keep seeing people post such garbage that "its Russian so it will crash" but this is an Airbus jet for crying out loud.
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    Post  George1 Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:12 am

    Russian manufacturing sector grows in October

    The Purchasing Managers' index (PMI) for the manufacturing sector rose to 50.2 from 49.1 the previous month, edging above the 50.0 mark that separates expansion from contraction.
    Russian Economy General News: #5 - Page 30 CSzxzyXWwAA9QdH
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:59 am

    sepheronx wrote:Are the communists not aware that they do not make A321's?  Has nothing to do with domestic manufacturers.

    I keep seeing people post such garbage that "its Russian so it will crash" but this is an Airbus jet for crying out loud.

    Whatever the case, such public statements is enough to make the 5th coulum's skin crawl... Wink  The Kudrins, Chubais, etc. of Russia will have to make a tough choice: 1.) Keep attacking VVP's rule of law, and by default strengthen the communists, who would be much more troublesome to them than VVP would. 2.) Maintain the status quo, and prevent the communists from getting any stronger.

    ...Either way you slice it, the 5th column is up Sh*t Creek without a paddle... Razz lol1

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