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Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

Big_Gazza

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Post n°126

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

Big_Gazza Thu May 20, 2021 3:31 pm

I hate to say this, but that image is a photshop comprised of bits of the Venera 13 footage and filled out with created content. The author (Don P Mitchell) made it as an example of what the terrain would generally look like.

The ones below are the best versions I've seen of projecting the imagery (V14 in this case) as true panoramas. These 3 guys are truly wizards when it comes to processing of spacecraft imagery!

Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions - Page 6 Venera11

Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions - Page 6 Venera12

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thegopnik

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Post n°127

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

thegopnik Thu May 20, 2021 4:11 pm

Big_Gazza wrote:

Daniel_Admassu wrote:My favorite is the images from Venera 9. Those were relatively clear and really a big deal considering the venusian atmospheric and surface conditions.

However expensive manned missions are, no probe can replace human presence in any exploration. I agree that current chemical rocket tech is what is holding everything back. Let's just hope that the nuclear tug project will give not just Russia but humanity the edge again. Any official timeframe?

The Venera 9 image was the first image taken from the surface of another planet. It is a deeply historical picture, but given that was by the Soviets, the tendancy in the West has been to ignore the achivement.

Modern digital processing really brings out images that the original releases (photos of hardcopy prints) just didn't convey. Too bad that the 2nd camera didn't return an image (due to the lens cap not coming off when commanded)

Venus is however one of those places where humans will never step (at least if they want to avoid a very unpleasent demise). Io is another, but for different reasons.

I have heard that somewhere in the atmosphere humans can live with the right temperature, carbon, nitrogen and oxygen. just got to keep the rocket floating for an astronaut to ride around in a blimp or something.

Daniel_Admassu

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Post n°128

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

Daniel_Admassu Thu May 20, 2021 5:36 pm

The atmosphere is thick enough to let a habitat float with a reasonable size balloon. When the Soviets first sent the first probe, it was equipped with a small parachute they estimated was required. From the subsequent altimeter, barometric and timing data, they would later discover that the Venusian atmosphere was much thicker than they thought and they didn't need a parachute at all. The next probes, with all their armored pressure hulls, just floated down without any added drag.

A human habitat may be able to float at a desired altitude. The challenges are the corrosive gases and electrical storms in the atmosphere. Not really worth tackling for human settlement purposes but I guess doable for a science outpost.

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TMA1

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Post n°129

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

TMA1 Fri May 21, 2021 7:02 am

The russian venera probes were incredible feats. The atmosphere is so thick it is supercritical and is more like a fluid.

GarryB

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Post n°130

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

GarryB Fri May 21, 2021 11:59 am

Imagine one day engineering a bacteria that could survive on the surface of Venus... the acidity, the air pressure, and the temperature... it is not actually that much different from a deep ocean volcanic vent where temperature and pressure and acidity are not that much different... send a probe down to collect bacteria that survive there and modify them to convert the various chemicals into oxygen or process the chemicals found in the lower atmosphere of Venus into chemicals that will allow the heat of the planet to escape into space.

Not that I think terraforming would be quick or easy or even possible, but it might be possible to reduce the temperatures and pressures and acidity to something more tolerable even if you have to remain in the clouds.

kvs

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Post n°131

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

kvs Fri May 21, 2021 2:41 pm

The extremophile bacteria that live in vents and deeper in the crust do not survive where the temperatures are higher than 130 C.
Sub 100 C temperatures are preferred by these bacteria. Ocean volcanic vents have temperatures from 60 C to 400 C, but the latter
are not colonized with bacteria.

https://ocean.si.edu/ecosystems/deep-sea/microbes-keep-hydrothermal-vents-pumping

The surface temperature on Venus is over 425 Celsius. The pressure is about 93 atmospheres but that is equivalent to 900 meters
under the ocean surface so not an issue. The problem with Venus is that it has lost most of its water to space. At some stage
it bifurcated into a perpetual hot house regime instead of sequestering CO2 as carbonate rock. Before the epoch of O2 generating
organisms, there would have been lots of reduced calcium ions in the ocean water which would react with cabonic acid to for CaCO3
which is not very soluble and precipitates. Of course, things had to cool down enough for oceans to form. On Venus this did not
happen.

Venus may have a similar size to Earth, but it more than likely has a different chemical composition since the dust in the primordial
solar system disk differentiates in properties depending on its distance from the Sun. It is possible that Venus did not have enough
initial H2O to form oceans. The faint young Sun meant that Venus had 30% less solar heating during the critical early stage, so
its orbit (0.7 AU) is not the cause of its hot house regime.

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George1

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Post n°132

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

George1 Fri May 21, 2021 2:55 pm

why not a new Venera mission?

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kvs

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Post n°133

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

kvs Fri May 21, 2021 3:02 pm

George1 wrote:why not a new Venera mission?

There was some discussion of designing a lander that would survive 24 hours. It would use high temperature electronics (e.g. silicon nitride based)
and active cooling. But no concrete program was established. I think it would be a good idea to focus on Venus instead of Mars. The technology
benefits of aiming at Venus are higher in my opinion.

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Big_Gazza

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Post n°134

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

Big_Gazza Sat May 22, 2021 4:14 am

George1 wrote:why not a new Venera mission?

Venera-D is still alive. No longer a prospective joint US-Russia misison ( Laughing

as if that was ever going to happen...) Roskosmos is looking to go it alone and has kicked off a contract for design proposal.

Roskosmos has allocated more than 318 million rubles for the development of a technical proposal for the Venera-D project

The work will be carried out on the basis of the draft roadmap for the start of work on the Venus exploration program, approved by the Russian Academy of Sciences and Roscosmos. The work is expected to be completed by February 28, 2023.

By this time, the feasibility of the mission and possible design solutions should be justified, ensuring the study of the atmosphere, surface, internal structure and surrounding plasma of Venus at the modern level, a study of the possibility of returning to Earth samples of soil, atmosphere and aerosols of Venus, and a technical project tasks for the space complex for the study of Venus "Venus-D".

"The composition of the Venera-D space complex should be determined at the stage of the technical proposal, based on the use of existing and developed in Russia ILV [space rocket] of the heavy class (PH [launch vehicle] Angara-A5" with RB [upper stage ] DM-03) ", - says the terms of reference. It is specified that the launch of the spacecraft should be carried out in 2029.

source

Zaks website has some details, but he reverts to his usual sky-is-falling political nonsense in shitcanning Russian space while pretending to be an objective space journalist. I'll just post the graphic from his site and omit the Atlantacist hate-puke.

Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions - Page 6 Venera_d_architecture_1

Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions - Page 6 Venera_d_architecture_1

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Daniel_Admassu

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Post n°135

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

Daniel_Admassu Sat May 22, 2021 4:56 am

Good to know that there still is a program for Venus. But all these timetables make me cringe my teeth. 2023 for the completion of a feasibility study of something conceived a while back? There are times I agree with Vann7. Roscosmos is seriously underfunded.

Come on guys, Russia isn't that poor. What is holding other 'middle of the table' nations such as UAE isn't this kind of money but lack of infrastructural capacity and the pool of expertise, which Russia already has. In this age of open markets it won't be long when they will buy the human resources they need, at least to start with, while they build their spaceports and train their kids. Roscosmos will then find itself among a whole new competition, not China and the US. Russia needs to up its game.

kvs

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Post n°136

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

kvs Sat May 22, 2021 5:19 am

Clearly space "exploration" consists of national vanity projects. Russia does not need to engage in this rubbish.

Daniel_Admassu

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Post n°137

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

Daniel_Admassu Sat May 22, 2021 7:38 am

Well exploration, experimentation or theoretical analysis are all subsets of science. And science is justified for its own sake. Usually applications arise based on it. But that is not why men do science. You look at scientific results and come up with applied technology. Not the other way around.

And science usually benefits from what you call 'vanity' projects. Nations spend money to prop-up their international standing. It might not be with a benevolent intent sometimes but rather for political purposes. Nonetheless science benefits.

You can, for instance, take the military applications of space 'exploration'. The persistent quest to improve launch propulsion efficiency may one day lead to dramatic improvement in rocket technology. Or a constant effort by your civilian engineers to improve radio telescopes may one day result in a radar aperture that is usable from geostationary orbits, keeping constant watch over any territory or being able to guide even small ordnance with pinpoint accuracy. Or small nano bots you design to replicate and build a shelter on Mars can be a huge breakthrough for medicine here on earth.

The point is a challenging endeavor such as space affords science an opportunity in ingenuity like no other. If you have the infrastructure and skilled manpower, you are essentially out of excuse to back down on exploration.

PapaDragon

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Post n°138

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

PapaDragon Sat May 22, 2021 2:52 pm

kvs wrote:Clearly space "exploration" consists of national vanity projects. Russia does not need to engage in this rubbish.

Had they been able to actually get something done you'd be singing a different tune

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Big_Gazza

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Post n°139

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

Big_Gazza Sat May 22, 2021 7:20 pm

Daniel_Admassu wrote:Good to know that there still is a program for Venus. But all these timetables make me cringe my teeth. 2023 for the completion of a feasibility study of something conceived a while back? There are times I agree with Vann7. Roscosmos is seriously underfunded.

With Venera-D no longer a joint US/Russia mission, Roskosmos will be forced to go it alone and will be denied Western components. Import substitution and domestic replacments for unobtainable equipment will add time and cost, and Roskosmos must develop a plan for the necessary R&D and manufacturing startups.

Why do you think there have been so much delay in the past to Russian space science projects? Its not that Russians are incompetent or have no money (though I would certainly agree that the feds have been stingy when comes to funding). Supply chain issues are IMHO the dominant factor. Soviet-era solutions are unavailable after the collapse of the old supply chains (and are essentialy obsolete in any case) and imported solutions represent unacceptable vulnerability that ruthless bastards in the US & EU have leveraged against numerous times to sabotage Russian science missions.

Russia is a nation that faces an ongoing multi-pronged attack by foreign nations that seek to roll-back her attempts at asserting her independence and soveignty. Russia has many vital things that require funding, and to be frank, space science comes pretty low on the list. Russian space budget needs to go to practical infrastructural developement that gives real world capabilities - launchers, cosmodromes, new generation manned vehicles, ISS replacement station, nuclear propulsion. The available space science budget comprises the Spektr-series observatories and the Luna explorers, as well as co-operative misisons like Exo-Mars. Venera-D is a worthy addition, but its clear the gov won't sacrifice other ventures to fast-track a 21st century repeat of Soviet-era achievements.

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kvs

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Post n°140

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

kvs Sat May 22, 2021 8:12 pm

Russia does not need to dance to the tune of its critics. Trying to foist some vanity projects on Russia as an imbecilic requirement to
prove its worth is assuming that Russians are total morons. A common problem on the part of Russia's enemies who never learn from
history.

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miketheterrible

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Post n°141

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

miketheterrible Sat May 22, 2021 8:32 pm

kvs wrote:Russia does not need to dance to the tune of its critics. Trying to foist some vanity projects on Russia as an imbecilic requirement to
prove its worth is assuming that Russians are total morons. A common problem on the part of Russia's enemies who never learn from
history.

It's a waste of money

GarryB

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Post n°142

First images from the Chinese Zhurong lander on Mars

GarryB Sun May 23, 2021 2:03 am

Russia needs to spend its money wisely in areas where there is a serious return that can be used to make money.

Space exploration needs to help Russia grow and develop in areas that are useful and valuable.

Russia doesn't have the ability to just print more money if they find they need more, this money is coming out of the same budget that is supposed to make things better for Russia and Russians.

People around the world complaining that they are not taking enough risks and are not pushing things, well get your wallet out and fund the programmes yourself.

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owais.usmani

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Post n°143

Luna-25 mission

owais.usmani Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:41 am

https://twitter.com/katlinegrey/status/1455780057247539205

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George1

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Post n°144

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

George1 Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:58 pm

Luna-25 lunar mission to be Russia’s major 2022 scientific event — top scientist

The Luna-25 is a space research lander module whose launch is scheduled for July 2022 from the Vostochny spaceport in the Russian Far East

MOSCOW, January 10. /TASS/. The launch of the Luna-25 probe and its planned landing on the Moon’s southern pole will be Russia’s key 2022 scientific event, President of the Russian Academy of Sciences Alexander Sergeyev told TASS on Monday.

"The launch of the Luna-25 probe is the main Russian scientific event of 2022 and our return to the Earth’s natural satellite since the 1970s. The most suitable position for the flight will be in the summer of 2022. I am confident that this will take place and I am confident that we will fly to the Moon and land softly and safely in the area of the southern pole, which will be the world’s first landing on that territory," Sergeyev said.

"In our estimates, the area there is the most conducive territory for the presence of water. Water is principally important for the Moon’s exploration because there will be no big problems with energy in future lunar settlements while it will be necessary to obtain oxygen," he said.

The Luna-25 is a space research lander module whose launch is scheduled for July 2022 from the Vostochny spaceport in the Russian Far East. The module is expected to touch down the Moon’s surface on the territory of the Boguslawsky crater in the area of its southern pole. The Luna-25 module will have nine scientific devices installed on its board to enable Russian scientists to study the properties of the Moon’s oldest rock in detail.

https://tass.com/science/1385499

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Big_Gazza

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Post n°145

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

Big_Gazza Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:34 pm

Vladimir Solovyov, General Designer of RSC Energia, presenting slide on the upcoming Luna missions.

Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions - Page 6 42236410

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Hole

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Post n°146

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

Hole Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:16 pm

Followed by the building of a moon city buy Russia and China. Very Happy

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George1

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Post n°147

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

George1 Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:34 pm

Russia picks July 23 as optimal date for Luna-25 lunar mission’s launch

The Luna-25 is set to become the first domestic spacecraft in Russia’s modern history on the surface of the Earth’s natural satellite

MOSCOW, January 26. /TASS/. July 23 is an optimal calculated date for launching Russia’s Luna-25 lunar mission this year, with July 24 serving as the back-up date, the Lavochkin Research and Production Association said in a presentation at the 46th Academic Readings on Cosmonautics on Wednesday.

The materials indicate July 23 (02:21:45 Moscow time) as the basic date and July 24 (02:55:49 Moscow time) as a back-up date. Consequently, the lunar station will reach the Moon’s orbit on July 28 or July 29, respectively.

Dates for the entire range of the 2022 launch window available from May to October have been calculated, a Lavochkin representative said.

"Activities are possible in September and October but there are nuances there," he added, specifying that the outlined dates showed an opportunity for the mission’s start but the launch would take place as soon as the lunar module was ready.

Head of Russia’s State Space Corporation Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin earlier told TASS that the launch of a Soyuz-2.1b carrier rocket with the Luna-25 inter-planetary automatic station was scheduled for May-July 2022. He said that the July launch was a preferred option for utilizing the spacecraft’s energy capacity.

The Luna-25 is set to become the first domestic spacecraft in Russia’s modern history on the surface of the Earth’s natural satellite. The lunar mission will be launched atop a Soyuz-2.1b carrier rocket with a Fregat booster from the Vostochny spaceport in the Russian Far East. Under the lunar project, the Luna-25 automatic station will be launched for studies in the area of the lunar south pole. The lander is set to touch down in the area of the Boguslawsky crater.

The Luna-25 probe is currently undergoing testing.

https://tass.com/science/1393447

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Big_Gazza

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Post n°148

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

Big_Gazza Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:40 pm

Russian research station is preparing to fly to the moon

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George1

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Post n°149

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

George1 Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:27 pm

Russia’s first lunar mission postponed to 2023 — Roscosmos

https://tass.com/science/1504355

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Big_Gazza

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Post n°150

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

Big_Gazza Fri Nov 04, 2022 3:17 am

Roskosmos signed contracts for the creation of Luna-26 and Luna-27 stations

MOSCOW, November 3 - RIA Novosti. Roskosmos ordered development work on the creation of two lunar stations - the orbital Luna-26 and the landing Luna-27 - from the NPO named after Lavochkin, the corresponding contracts are posted on the public procurement portal.

Both contracts imply "the creation of space complexes for conducting contact and remote studies of the lunar surface in the circumpolar region."

According to the first, in 2022-2024, a "Space complex with an orbital spacecraft for remote research" should be created. The second contract concerns the creation in 2022-2025 of a "space complex for conducting contact studies of the lunar surface in the polar region."

The Luna-26 mission for mapping is expected in 2024, Luna-27 for soil exploration - in 2025. "Luna-28" was planned to be sent in 2027-2028 to take lunar soil and work out the landing scheme for Russian cosmonauts.

Now Russia 's first mission to the Moon in almost 50 years is being prepared - Luna-25 will be sent to work out the basic technologies for a soft landing in the circumpolar region and conduct contact research in the South Pole. After repeated transfers, its launch from the Vostochny Cosmodrome is expected in 2023.

source

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First images from the Chinese Zhurong lander on Mars

Luna-25 mission

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Luna-25 lunar mission to be Russia’s major 2022 scientific event — top scientist

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Russia picks July 23 as optimal date for Luna-25 lunar mission’s launch

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