Russian Naval Aviation: News

mack8 wrote:It looks like they like the long rang of the Su-33, that's why they hang on to them. Possibly the upgraded ones will act as a sort of stop gap until the T-50K? (also long range)

If the Su-33s have enough hours on them, given the cost of new aircraft (they have decided long ago restarting production of Su-33 is not feasible) an upgrade is comparatively very cost effective to significantly increase their potential for the remaining time they will be in service. They will probably upgrade about 12 or so imo if they'll go ahead.

Yes that's the only thing I can think of, a combination of the Su-33s superior range, and the fact that the naval PAK-FA could be ready in less than a decade; and the only thing that's really needed is a stop-gap.

The logic makes sense but overall I'm not convinced. Drop-tanks can be used to increase MiG-29K ranges, while the increasing minaturization and range-increases of anti-ship and anti-air weaponary means that todays MiG-29Ks will be able to hit all the same targets that Su-33s could 10-15 years ago anyway.
Meanwhile in terms of the naval PAK-FA - there is no need to rush it at all. The naval PAK-FA should be developed for the next-generation of ACs, that will have more space for a large fighter like the PAK-FA, and will probably have EM-catapults that will insure that they will be able to launch at max-loads. This will also give time for all the chinks in the design of the baseline PAK-FA to be ironed out, before launching the production of the naval version.
In terms of the Kuznetsov - it is a smaller AC with only ski-ramps - but with its eventual overhaul it will certainly be able to carry quite a large MIG-29K complement, this is an ideal aircraft for it and the Kuznetsov can be equipped with them right up to its eventual retirement.

My only hope is that they still plan to go ahead with MiG-29K introduction, but want to modernize and keep around a few Su-33s in the carrier air-wing for the long-range missions. I guess such an idea has its value too.

GJ Flanker wrote:At the end, you've to admit, a super-dooper modernized Su-33 will have the edge over a MiG-29KR in every way.

No I don't have to 'admit' it.

The MiG-29K is a newly-built aircraft that will be able to serve for a lot longer than just the 10 years that the Su-33 upgrade will give, there are no questions about its ability to take-off with full weapons loadouts from ski-ramp aircraft carriers, and you will be able to fit considerably more MiG-29Ks/MiG-29KUBs onto the Kuznetsov than you could fit Su-33s; owing to their compactness and the ability of MiG-29KUBs to double as trainer aircraft.

Actually I'm surprised they have decided that the Su-33s have another 10 years left in them. Modernization will do zilch for the age of the airframe, and I have heard that those airframes are pretty worn-out by now, needing replacement and soon. That was part of the big reason for the MiG-29K program funding; and the idea that India's purchasing of MiG-29Ks will make it worthwhile to build ones for the Russian navy too.

Modernization of Su-33 have some sense, as they were last flankers build in the mid nineties. They were built for carrier operations over the sea, but they quite rarely fly from carrier. Anyway, they could serve quite a long time as ground based fighters in Murmansk region do defend Murmansk naval base and Arctic region. Don't forget, MiG-31BM is fast interceptor and Su-34 is a fighter bomber. They need an agile fighter like Su-33 there, specially when Su-33 is also equipped with IFR and with that it have longer range over arctic than standard Su-27 and equipped for navigation over the sea. Modernized to Su-27SM3 standard will be still capable fighter to protect the open gate over warm gulf stream to the Arctic region. MiG-29K/KUB will be quite enough for their carrier operations.

With a squadron of Su-33 in Murmansk together with a squadron of MiG-31BM in Murmansk and a squadron of MiG-31BM in Novaya Zemlja island, they will be capable to defend the gate to the Arctic region.

GJ Flanker wrote:At the end, you've to admit, a super-dooper modernized Su-33 will have the edge over a MiG-29KR in every way.

No, that is wrong.

You will always be able to fit more Mig-29Ks on the Kuz.
Also, it has a TWR advantage and plenty of performance characteristics that a Su-33 will not be matching.

Now it will certainly have its advantages, but the question is, how relevant are they to what the RuNavy wants. They don't operate Su-33s with heavy AShMs in any case- and even if they do modernize them to be multirole, I suspect the most they will be carrying off the Kuz is the Kh-35 and Kh-31. Both are missiles that the MiG-29K carries.

There is this notion online that the Flanker platform is flat out better than Fulcrum in every sense aside from price, but it is just not true.

GJ Flanker wrote:The only advantage, of the MiG-29KR, over the current Sea Flanker was, that it is a multirole fighter and nothing more!

Will the Sea Flanker ever climb as fast as the MiG-29K? No. An important characteristic for air superiority wouldn't you say.
Will it cost ever as little to operate? No.
Will it have as good of a sustained turn rate? Likely no.
Will it have as fast of in-line acceleration? No.

Look I could go on, but the point is the situation is more nuanced.

It might be something to do with inter service rivalry. The Navy has always wanted to be as independent from the VVS as possible....the more aircraft they control - the better from their perspective

Cyberspec wrote:It might be something to do with inter service rivalry. The Navy has always wanted to be as independent from the VVS as possible....the more aircraft they control - the better from their perspective

Well they can buy more MiG-29K's, newer structure, newer technology and surely can last longer.

Anyway i agree that upgrading Su-33 would be hmmm inexpedient. It can however be given mid-life update so it will remain relevant like Su-27SKM but no.. it won't be more advanced than MiG-29K's unless some deep surgery be done to the airframe. Won't be economic especially given that Su-33 weren't produced in the number of land based Su-27S's.

If such heavy fighters are needed however.. Ru Navy might might better off with restarting Su-33 production line.

flamming_python wrote:

TR1 wrote:We have seen them (company MiG-29K and MiG-29M2s, as well as Navy K/KUBs) flying around with Kh-31 and Kh-35.

Meanwhile the Klub container has never been seen outside of airshow plastic models.

Has the Klub really been seen much of anywhere at all, as part of any weapons system or launcher? Outside of brouchures, plastic mock-ups, promo videos and the like I mean.

Remember it's a pretty new weapon, and a very potent one - they might not too eager to show it off to the public, nor will they neccesserily be in a rush to press it into service - albeit I think it's inevitable that they will do; and for all platforms - ship-launched, sub-launched, air-launched & ground-launched.

...Or they might not be ready to rush a weapon system in to service if there's a potential major improvement in capability on it's way. Considering that they just recently announced they successfully created hypersonic fuel, and Zircon's development is on the horizon, they might just wait and save money for a scram jet powered Kaliber, kind of like why there isn't any orders for T-90AM/MS because they're waiting for the T-14 Armata.

flamming_python wrote:

TR1 wrote:We have seen them (company MiG-29K and MiG-29M2s, as well as Navy K/KUBs) flying around with Kh-31 and Kh-35.

Meanwhile the Klub container has never been seen outside of airshow plastic models.

Has the Klub really been seen much of anywhere at all, as part of any weapons system or launcher? Outside of brouchures, plastic mock-ups, promo videos and the like I mean.

Remember it's a pretty new weapon, and a very potent one - they might not too eager to show it off to the public, nor will they neccesserily be in a rush to press it into service - albeit I think it's inevitable that they will do; and for all platforms - ship-launched, sub-launched, air-launched & ground-launched.

AFAIK, China was testing it, research purposes probably.

All Tu-142s for the Navy will be upgraded

Russian Northern Fleet’s fighter jets hold drills with missile launches over Barents Sea

Several dozen flights by deck-based Su-33 [NATO reporting name: Flanker-D] fighters were performed

MOSCOW, April 28. /TASS/. Deck-based fighter jets of Russia’s Northern Fleet held tactical exercises with air-to-air missile launches over the Barents Sea, Fleet spokesman Capitan First Rank Vadim Serga said on Tuesday.

"Pilots of the Northern Fleet’s shipborne fighter jet aviation regiment held flight tactical exercises with the practical launch of air-to-air missiles. The drills were held at the naval aviation’s combat training ranges over the Barents Sea. Several dozen flights by deck-based Su-33 [NATO reporting name: Flanker-D] fighters were performed," the spokesman said.

The pilots repelled an imaginary enemy’s attack on a group of combat ships and performed elements of an air fight, the spokesman said.

"For the first time in 2015, young pilots took part in the tactical drills. The pilots performed missions both solely and in pairs, wings and groups. Apart from practicing combat training assignments, they developed the skills of flying over the featureless terrain and performed the tasks of crew teamwork in ordinary and complex weather conditions, the spokesman said.

Mi-14 nuke-capable antisubmarine copter comeback slated

The Mi-14 was so good at submarine hunting that in 1996, under tremendous pressure from Washington, all Russian antisubmarine version Mi-14 helicopters were decommissioned.

Kyo wrote:Mi-14 nuke-capable antisubmarine copter comeback slated

The Mi-14 was so good at submarine hunting that in 1996, under tremendous pressure from Washington, all Russian antisubmarine version Mi-14 helicopters were decommissioned.

It goes to show how much of a puppet Boris Yeltsin was...

Any more informations regarding Su-33 modernization?

So they are after all going to modernize the Su-33. Well the deal with India bying Mig-29K was ok and logically Russians have choosen the Mig because the factory tooling that was made for India... It would take an additional cost overhead to switch to the Mig-29K production, but... Su-33 after modernization would be a true air dominance fighter... Mig-29 with its range and weapons carriage is comparable to the F-18. But Su-33 would be a "weapons truck". Speed, range, number of pylons, radar options.... Mig-29K is a good plane but the original phylosophy arround which it was designed was that it was a front line fighter to be utilized in huge numbers... That you cannot do on sea where you have a single carrier with extremely limited numbers. On sea small groups of planes have to be used and as a result of that greater focus have to be made to make each unit as powerfull as possible. In this aspect Su-33 is the option. It is fast, it is maneuverable, it can carry a lot of weapons and it can carry them very far away + its radar options are better... In this circumstances mixed numbers of types would be the most probable outcome.

I could only speculate, but if they equip Su-33 with Zhuk-MS radar and more powerful Al-31FM1 engines, it could still be quite potent multirole fighter. Maybe Su-33 will not serve on carrier, as NAVY receive new MiG-29K for carrier, but its strong undercarriage made it more suitable from ground base operations from more harsh air bases in Arctic. It need less space than MiG-31, so more suitable for smaller air bases.

Second batch of Il-38N ordered.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fria.ru%2Fdefense_safety%2F&sandbox=1

franco wrote:Second batch of Il-38N ordered.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fria.ru%2Fdefense_safety%2F&sandbox=1

Good....because the ASW aircraft fleet is in urgent need of an upgrade and probably expansion in numbers. I was reading recently that at it's peak, the USSR had about 100 operational ASW aircraft, while today that number is around 30.

The 'Kasatka' ASW system which is being installed on the Ka-27M can be installed on a variety of platforms




There's also the Be-300MP project for an ASW and Maritime patrol version of the Be-200

Repair of amphibious aircraft Be-12 in naval aviation of the Russian Navy in Yalta. It seems no replacement is projected in the foreseeable future.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1339356.html

Concept of new naval helicopter from Kamov. (Should this go here or in air force tread? )

http://military-informant.com/?p=25706

its looks like Russia are offering to upgrade and build new MI-14's

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150710/1024451880.html

In honor of Naval Aviation Day;

http://sputniknews.com/photo/20150717/1024738645.html

Found this interesting blurb:
http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150805/1163249888.html

Su-24MR conducting exercises to detect submarines in the Sea of Okhotsk. Now, the Su-24 has no capability to detect submarines, so what is going on here?