Non-sense on russian military equipment

If you see something stupid or dishonest in the western defense media, post it here.

The western defense media has this upbeat and positive tone when discussing Chinese military equipment. And this same media belittles and degrades Russian military equipment to the point of self delusion. It is just strange to watch. I don't know if they are upbeat about China because they're giving them the underdog treatment or if they are upbeat because they see Chinese military progress as a slight against Russia. It must be the latter. Because its a little late in the game to be giving China the underdog treatment.

But either case makes no sense. Chinese military progress should be a concern to them. They should be studying Chinese military equipment to see how it will effect them. But all they do is cheer the Chinese on.

Why can't they just be level headed ? Just be analytical on both China and Russia. I wont hold my breath.

Here's one example today from The Warzone. Seriously. This tone is evident everywhere from the Warzone to the Natl Interest and all of those Yankee defense Youtube channels. Anyway ..my commentary in brackets.

China’s Y-20 Transport Appears To Be Finally Flying With Indigenous Jet Engines

The Y-20, China’s largest indigenous aircraft, needs new, more powerful engines to reach its full potential.(Yay China) We finally have a strong indication that at least one of China’s Xi’an Y-20 military transport aircraft is now flying with indigenous WS-20 turbofan engines, which offer more power than the Russian-made Soloviev D-30KP-2s (Of course. Russia sucks) fitted to earlier examples. If true, the development would represent a significant advancement in capability for the big airlifter. (Dont get too excited now)

China has already made rapid progress (rapid progress!) with the Y-20 program and production is now progressing at a prodigious rate. However, the airlifter, in its original iteration, has always been hamstrung by its obsolescent engines.(Hamstrung by Russian engines cuz Russia sucks) The original Y-20A, dubbed “Kunpeng,” after a giant bird of Chinese mythology, is powered by four Russian-made low-bypass Soloviev D-30KP-2 engines, which are lacking in terms of thrust and efficiency (of course. they are Russian) compared to modern high-bypass turbofans.

It was always the plan to eventually install indigenous WS-20 high-bypass turbofans, allowing the Y-20 to achieve much more of its potential and remove dependence on a foreign engine source. (Get off those Russian engines. Nato membership ?)

Previous analysis had suggested that the new engine might only be ready for limited production starting from 2024, which suggests that the program could have been accelerated, or perhaps has not faced the problems that had been envisaged. On the other hand, we have so far only seen likely evidence of a single re-engined Y-20 and while Xi’an may be capable of producing airframes in large numbers, it is not currently clear if the same applies to the WS-20 engines.  

(^They could have struck a more negative tone with that paragraph. Just imagine if it was about Russia. It would be pure condescension)

Even with its D-30KP-2 engines, the Y-20 can reportedly carry a maximum payload of 132,000 pounds, outstripping the 96,000 pounds carried by the PLAAF’s Russian-made Il-76 Candid airlifters. (Thats the goal. Be better than Russia)

Other potential variants of the re-engined Y-20 include a proposed airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) platform and a civilian cargo derivative, which has previously been exhibited in model form, known as the Y-20F-100. In the civilian sector, the Y-20 perhaps even has the potential to displace the Il-76 (Yesssss!!)

Look at this J-20 puff piece. (my comments in brackets)

High-Quality Shots Of Unpainted Chinese J-20 Stealth Fighter Offer New Capability Insights

The steady flow of intriguing new images of China's stealthy heavy fighter-interceptor, the J-20, continues over seven years after the jet first appeared. The aircraft is already in operational service ('em)with the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) and it continues to evolve and spread its wings, participating in increasingly high-profile joint-exercises and deployments near hotspots along China's borders.(China deployed its new batch of su 35's to the South China sea and not the J-20, that's supposedly in service, with Russian engines)

Three new shots help us better understand the build quality of this game-changing machine (wow) as well as handicap some aspects of its true capabilities. But above all else, like I have stressed since its first appearance, the photos are a reminder that China's ability to make great leaps in aerospace materials and manufacturing sciences should not be underestimated. (Yes. More on that later)

The jet's giant maneuvering canard foreplanes are also displayed in grand fashion. These control surfaces help to give the big jet its agility, although they are unlikely to move much when the aircraft is in combat cruise configuration where minimizing its frontal radar signature is critical to its survival.(If a Russian jet sported these monstrosities, it would be declared not stealth)

A Luneburg lens is also seen attached below the jet to provide an ample radar return. Like American stealth fighters, these bolt-on devices are used to help air traffic controllers see the aircraft during transient flights and for some training operations. (Thanks for that)

A single pitot tube in the exact same place as the one found on the F-22 is also visible.( )

Now, after years of avionics development, which has included the use of a specialized flying avionics laboratory, a real chin-mounted electro-optical capability looks to have become operational on China's growing J-20 force.....But just as a situational awareness tool alone, and a passive one at that, it represents a potent capability even the F-22 doesn't possess.(The su 57 has capabilities that the F-22 doesn't posses. But you'll never see them say it)


In these photos, we also get to see the fine details of the construction of the J-20's outer airframe, and they look very similar to those found on the F-22, and in some cases, on F-35 ( )

None of this comes as that much of a surprise as China has become a master at cyber espionage and the theft of classified intellectual property from America's most capable defense contractors.( )

The PLAAF's ascent from a third-rate air arm to the USAF's most threatening peer state competitor has been dizzying.(You go China! Show them Russians!)

The J-20 remains a highly interesting machine that will continue to improve in the coming decade. Powerplants have been a continuing issue for type, but China is making strides when it comes to indigenous engine manufacturing capabilities as well. (Dont say it...dont say it.... Well done. You didn't say that it has Russian engines)

Yet what's most impressive is that China has leapfrogged Russia when it comes to advanced fighter aircraft design in most respects. ( No engines, no problem I guess)

(And for the kicker.....)

And by many indications, that disparity will continue to widen with each passing day as the J-20 fleet grows and evolves while Russia's Su-57 program stagnates towards irrelevance.


(   )

China copying them reinforces their dissonant but still necessary belief that other races and countries somehow are sub-humans that can only replicate what they do but never really understand it, as if they were a sort of bee colony making perfect hexagonal cells without knowing how or why, or a parrot replicating what a human says. Russia's own and often smarter approach puts their superiority in question and is both upsetting on a personal level and bad propaganda on a collective one. So they praise the Chinese but the same way you would praise a pet imitating what you do, not actually being an equal and much less a rival. They are such freaking pathetic losers that cannot man up and watch reality in the eye, that is of course why the West is in full collapse mode.

the western defense rags do indeed have a condescending supremacist appreciation for chicom defense equipment. and their puff pieces can verge on comical, but another aspect of it that I dont like is the corruption. the western elites will sell out their countrymen to the chicoms for cash.

LMFS wrote:Russia's own and often smarter approach puts their superiority in question and is both upsetting on a personal level and bad propaganda on a collective one. So they praise the Chinese but the same way you would praise a pet imitating what you do, not actually being an equal and much less a rival.

haha yeah. Good point. They feel insulted that Russia had the audacity not to just copy the F-22 and the boring conventional F-15 with LO features look that almost everyone else is doing.

Like the Indian HAL AMCA and the Korean KFX pipedreams




And the oh so boring looking Japan 5th gen.



And the Turkish TFX



And the Tempest



I'll reserve judgement on the Dassault/Airbus fighter. It looks like it might have Levcons

The only real program that has a chance to be achieved is the the Dassaut/Airbus. The rest have no chance to create something on their own and will beg for US help which will oblige them to buy f-35 and cancel thei rprograms. Japan is already buying them.

But I also don't see Dassaut cooperating with Airbus. Not real friendly companies and they hate sharing their cakes...

Backman wrote:They feel insulted that Russia had the audacity not to just copy the F-22 and the boring conventional F-15 with LO features look that almost everyone else is doing.

Worse even, leaving them far behind in terms of airframe performance and design philosophy. I am 100% sure they are fuming at the fact that they napped and allowed Russia to leapfrog them just when they had the chance to create a gap almost impossible to overcome.

Like the Indian HAL AMCA and the Korean KFX pipedreams

I would think the KFX has a good chance of becoming real, but I agree now everyone and their dog take a very conventional airframe, make some chimes and some planform alignment and some CGIs and claim to be developing their 5G fighter. We will see which of them are finished successfully.

And the Tempest

Ugliest of all, claimed to be 6G when it is only a late 5G...

I'll reserve judgement on the Dassault/Airbus fighter. It looks like it might have Levcons

That was an early render, the last mock-up they showed didn't look that nice... also very far in the future IMO.

Isos wrote:The only real program that has a chance to be achieved is the the Dassaut/Airbus. The rest have no chance to create something on their own and will beg for US help which will oblige them to buy f-35 and cancel thei rprograms. Japan is already buying them.

But I also don't see Dassaut cooperating with Airbus. Not real friendly companies and they hate sharing their cakes...

Europe is a perfect example of delaying and downgrading weapon development programs. The increased cost of the development of technologies and the progressive decadence of Western economies is what forces them to work together even when they don't want. Will they be able to develop a top of the line fighter including a VCE? We will see...

The thing with western propaganda is it goes one of two ways for one of two reasons.

The Russians are the most powerful threat to the universe and they are powerful because they are copying all our best stuff like our hypersonic anti ship missiles and our fantastic air defence capacity.... which means we need more funding to catch up/waste... or they are the worst in the world on the verge of collapse and even China has better stuff than they do... which means all your money was well spent... we have won.... but now China is becoming a threat because they have stolen all our best technology and are copying all our new stuff too... so we still need more funding...

There is no critical self examination... what we do is right, if they do it different then they are wrong... till it is proven overwhelmingly that we are wrong and then we rapidly copy them and claim it was our idea all along and it wasn't any good till we perfected it of course with our superior technology and design skills.

They feel insulted that Russia had the audacity not to just copy the F-22 and the boring conventional F-15 with LO features look that almost everyone else is doing.

Except that the F-15 is clearly a copy of the MiG-25 and the F-22 is therefore just a stealthy US copy of the MiG-25...

(Warning. This article might annoy the hell out of you)

This pile of journalistic garbage was actually in Forbes. Not just some little propaganda rag.https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2020/11/03/russias-stealth-fighter-still-kinda-stinks/?sh=4ef819df162c

Russia’s Stealth Fighter Still Kinda Stinks

Ten years after it first flew, Russia’s Su-57 Felon stealth fighter is a mess. Its radar signature is at least 10 times greater than that of an American F-22 Raptor. (10 times eh. WTF )

Its radars might not work.(WHAT THE F*CK ?)

And it’s not clear that Moscow can afford to buy all 86 copies that Russian president Vladimir Putin insisted the country should buy.
(Notice how these douchebags always change the subject ? The subject was that the su 57 sucks. The subject wasn't the Russian airforce)

Those are the sobering conclusions that Justin Bronk, an air-power expert at the London-based Royal United Services Institute, came to in an October study. “There are significant doubts about the scale of Su-57 production and the funding required to mature the aircraft’s sensors, avionics and dedicated weapons systems,” Bronk wrote.
(Oh so now we are talking about Russia's budget. Not just the su 57 and the airforce)

Russian plane-maker Sukhoi developed the twin-engine Su-57 in response to the development by American aerospace giant Lockheed Martin LMT +1.3% of the F-22. The Raptor entered service in 2005. Some 185 of the twin-engine F-22s are in service.


Owing to its high degree of all-around stealth, hard-to-pinpoint radar and high-altitude performance, the F-22 is capable of “completely over-matching all existing Russian combat aircraft,” Bronk wrote.

But it’s not clear how successful the design is. The type’s stealthiness in particular is questionable. “Notable sources of radar-reflections include the unusual fully moving leading-edge root extension control surfaces and actuators (Oh so now the Levcons are a problem. Thats a new one. But the J-20 canards are A ok)

cockpit canopy design (the same cockpit as the YF-23), ram air intakes(same intakes as YF-23) at the base of the canted vertical stabilizers (They are tiny, mostly composite and all moving. Most 5th 6th gen concepts have the same thing. Unlike the monster verticals streight out of the 1980's on the F-22), [infrared] sensor in front of the canopy and the only partially shrouded jet engine turbine faces,” Bronk explained. (You already mentioned the intakes you pathetic fool)

“The latter is due to the ‘flattened Flanker’ blended wing-body shape, coupled with two large central weapons bays between the intake trunks, leaving insufficient space for a full ‘S-curve’ to hide the turbine faces as used on the F-22. These features are likely a result of comparative Russian inexperience in designing and building stealth aircraft, coupled with budgetary limitations.”
(The YF-23, the Euro FCAS & the 6th gen US concept has the same setup. Weapons between the engines. The F-22 is actually the dated configuration)

The Su-57’s problems could weigh on the Kremlin as it struggles to fulfill Putin’s 2019 edict that the air force acquire 76 Su-57s in addition to the 10 prototype models that already are flying. The Kremlin reportedly has set aside $2.6 billion for initial production, but as Bronk noted, that’s just $34 million per plane—hardly enough to cover a full airframe with sensors and engines.
(Look at this retard bean counting)

“As such, the $2.63 billion is likely to only cover an initial tranche—with the remainder of the 76 having to compete for stretched funding within the overall Russian military modernization budget.” (now we are talking about budgets again)

“Even if all 76 airframes announced by Putin are ordered, the [Russian air force] will operate significantly fewer than 100 Su-57s by the end of the 2020s, and the likelihood that the sensors, avionics and engines will be mature is questionable.” (You said that 3 times now you piece of shit)

^Articles like that are meant to reassure the public that Russia is backward.

There's no hyper maneuverable Russian 5th gen aircraft to see here that has been designed with economics in mind, to take over for the Flanker for the next 50 years No.

I would say they are projecting their problems on Russia... they can't afford F-35s and are reviving older designs they wanted to kill off and bury with the purpose of larger profit margins on all new plane designs...

That report is so butthurt I think it is great... besides... what military enthusiast gets their information from Forbes... this is for the American Sheeple to make them feel smug and happy that the people wasting their hard earned tax money are not the only incompetent idiots on the planet making weapons... the Russian MIC which is funded from an economy no better than that of Spain or Texas is managing to make America scared despite America spending ten times more on its own... which is increased by about 40% more when you add in its HATO and HATO affiliated stooges gang... how can they make stealth fighters do cheap... we have no evidence but we assume they just must be faulty... a fair assumption considering the state of the very well funded F-35 programme... but who cares about fair assumptions... because that is just propaganda... what matters is facts and just the information from Turkey about the performance of the S-400 system and the Russians tracking F-35s operating on the Iraq/Iran border tells you their radar technology is actually rather good...

Such articles are great because they are ignoring the issues and pretending everything is just fine, which means no solutions in the near future so Russia can continue to reel them in in terms of a range of technologies and increase their lead in others... people who read and believe Forbes are not Russias target market for weapons exports anyway...

This quote is from an older article. But this is su 57 derangement syndrome in all its glory.

Western media hasn't miss a chance.

Thieves Broke Into Russia’s Il-80 Doomsday Plane
The criminals removed a hatch and made off with radio equipment from the strategic airborne command post.

By Thomas Newdick
December 7, 2020

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/38010/thieves-broke-into-russias-il-80-doomsday-plane

^ That was an own goal by Russia IMO. They could have kept that under wraps. Instead they made a story out of it in the official media. And it does look bad.

Backman wrote:This quote is from an older article. But this is su 57 derangement syndrome in all its glory.

Thanks for not posting this shit and the previous article at the Su-57 thread!

Own goal, or independent media that does exactly what it is told and never embarrasses or points out problems like the much vaunted independent media in the west.

Given the choice I would prefer these things are in the open so they get sorted and the guilty are found and suitably punished...

This is an actual subscription based defense analysis website. Which is why I could not copy and paste the text. So I will screen shot it. This was posted in June 2020.
Here's a link to the whole thing. https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2020/06/10/sukhois-days-are-numbered/

Look at the picture, the headline and the address bar. The address bar says Sukhoi's days are numbered





Look at the text under the picture. They are implying that this is a picture of the actual incident. And then look at the link below that. Russia and Sukhoi should bring defamation lawsuits against actors like this.

Hahaha, I cannot believe such crap is behind a paywall!!

If they manage to make money with such retard level nonsense, then I really salute them!

LMFS wrote:Hahaha, I cannot believe such crap is behind a paywall!!

If they manage to make money with such retard level nonsense, then I really salute them!

This article wasn't behind the wall but still. This is the kind of sage analysis they have out there to entice you into a subscription. They also do consulting services.

Backman wrote:This article wasn't behind the wall but still. This is the kind of sage analysis they have out there to entice you into a subscription. They also do consulting services.

The first time I loaded the page there was a pop-up and after refusing to give them money for their crappy content, the page would not scroll down, maybe it was something in my browser...

Anyway, I would not consult them how to add two and two. The piece was really bad, not only in being ill intentioned, but actually terribly off in its data, their research is high school level.

The top image is a Flanker crash at a Ukrainian airshow... pretty obvious from the Ukrainian wing markings...

I suspect Sukhois sales opportunities in the Ukraine probably are pretty grim... but I am pretty sure that is not an important worry they ponder about every day...

Hahahaha... claiming the Su-57 is a fraud because the Indians pulled out is hilarious... the aircraft based on the Su-57 the Indians were going to co develop with Russia is akin to their previous co development of the Su-30MKI... which essentially resulted in the Su-30M getting avionics and equipment from France and Israel and India that tripled the aircrafts price, while not making it better than the Su-35 with all Russian content.

The Indian 5th gen stealth fighter programme likely would have resulted in the same... French and Israeli bits in an Su-57 airframe costing 3 or 4 times more than the Russian Su-57s.

It would be made in India so it would not effect the price of Russian Su-57s at all... it would just add costs to the Indian version...

We should run a subscription service here... everyone pays to access and those that contribute the information or apply their logic to issues get paid a percentage of the subscriptions collected... So George and Dino and many others will make money for their support, and Mindstorm would make good money too...

To much effort to manage though... not going to happen... but it would be nice to see efforts rewarded...

This garbage typifies western "analysis" of anything Russia. It is basically infantile projection and wishful thinking.

Barring very few exceptions, western defence media are largely literally buzzfeed tier of inane trivial bullshittery meant to pad a quota of articles.

ALso, don't click the links or share them, but if it can't be helped archive the page and then link that so they don't even get any increments to their eyeball counters.

As we await the next su 57 hit piece from The Drive, here is their Christmas thread pic. Rivets much ? The Natl Interest and "Business Insider" will weigh in soon also. (on the production su 57) Brace yourselves.

Now over all the su 57 thread , someone questioned the smoke on a newly posted pic. It's like every freaking picture of the su 57 we have to answer for. Yet the F-22 can be posted like the above , and they have to answer for nothing.