MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2

No it hasn't.

No Russian official has mentioned any Russian offensive... lots of people on both sides have speculated about an offensive that might start after the Ukrainian offensive failed but there have been no comments from the people who would actually know.

But then the facts are obvious... Russia has built up and trained a massive force and has been bleeding the Orcs dry.... the longer this goes on the weaker the Orcs will be when Russia decides to go on the offensive.

The alternative is that they are building up forces to guard the line and deal with drone attacks and artillery attacks and terrorist attacks for the next 100 years.

I would guess they are waiting for the right conditions, whether they know Zelensky is going to be overthrown, or they are going to take out all the nazis at the top in a sneak attack... the core problem is that the orcs got rid of most of the pro Russians in the west and central Ukraine largely by sending them to the front or just murdering them, so any attempt to overthrow Zelensky will just change the problem and not solve it... of course a couple of FAB-3000s delivered in a pattern around certain buildings in Kiev will almost assure the contents of a specific building are cremated.

Putin has made it clear they are going to follow this through and Ukrainian access to weapons with flight ranges of 300km means Russian forces need to penetrate 300km into Ukrainian territory to eliminate enemy troops... now there is a good chance that that area 300km into Orc territory might decide to join the Russian Federation too... just for safety reasons, which means the safety zone of 300km has to move west another 300km... see how that works?

Would be funny if they get to HATO borders and the locals ask to join the Russian Federation too.

When the Orc forces collapse the advance will be faster... and they are not going to level cities down like they have with some fortified villiages and towns... most likely they will negotiate the surrender and move troops in peacefully to secure the area and start the process of referendums so they can decide their future.... something Kiev neglected to give them... despite being the greatest democracy that ever existed apparently.

And you talk about NATO mobilizing it's population Laughing Laughing Laughing

They will follow the Ukrainians, as far west as they can

If they were smart they would have mandatory service for all of its newest citizens to deal with those immigration problems... those tent cities in France would disappear overnight.

It would be unusual for an operational Russian Air Force Fighter to expose its radar like that I would think.

Of course having said that with an order for 6 aircraft over several years they could have hand made AESA radar for them.

It is not going to become operational by itself... it needs production orders and in service items to get the costs down.

I doubt the Russian Air Force would accept the MiG-35 with anything less than the original design specs including the AESA radar.
If it was just essentially a MiG-29K why would they have taken this long to accept it into service?

Exactly my thoughts.

On paper if they wanted super cheap huge numbers aircraft then the MiG-29M is actually a good choice because you can pump them out in good numbers and when the technology is getting ready you can start putting AESA radars in the planes and replace the cheaper avionics with the top of the line systems the MiG-35 has.

6 planes in however many years it has been is essentially hand made, which means you get to test the performance improvements and system improvements of having an AESA radar in service, but only making 6 planes means you really don't get the benefits for AESA of serial production, which is making millions of elements, where you improve the production process and of course the components get smaller and lighter and cheaper but also more powerful and with fewer duds.

That happens in the factory during serial production.

Can't access UACs website but this from a Hungarian website:

MiG-35 mass production with AESA radar finding F-22 at 80 mi
By Boyko Nikolov On May 14, 2023

The war in Ukraine shifts the focus from other topics. In the last few weeks, the mass production of the Russian MiG-35 fighter jet has been increasingly mentioned in the Russian media. In fact, this is not a guess, but an officially announced restart of serial production of the light Russian fighter Mikoyan. Officially

In connection with the current situation in the western part of our continent, the construction of the combat capabilities of the Russian Air Force is once again relevant. During the international military exhibition, Aero India-2023, the executive director of the United Aircraft Corporation [UAC] Mr. Yuri Slyusar announced the new production of the MiG-35.

According to Russian experts, Russia’s domestic defense industry seriously fears that in the event of a large-scale conflict, there will not be enough combat aircraft. It is for this reason that UAC decided to resume mass production, local experts say.
If the MiG-35s are really needed, then who?

Conventionally, any modern air force should consist of one-third heavy aircraft and two-thirds light fighters. This is indeed a direct guarantee of the success of the “successfully” formed armed forces. Heavy military aircraft are designed to solve the most complex combat tasks, even non-standard ones.

Light combat units are literally omnipresent – they perform a large part of the missions and can be brought in at any time when needed. It is for this reason that the UAC is reviving the MiG-35 fighters.

No deliveries are planned for the current year [2023]. According to sources in the Russian media, such deliveries are planned for 2024. There is no word yet on how many MiG-35s Russia would like to acquire.

There are currently six units in series production. Two more MiG-35s were produced, but they were prototypes. The six MiG-35s have been transferred to the Swifts aerobatic team.

Will the MiG-35 counter Western fighters?

The MiG-35 actually has many advantages. First, it is easy to adapt any of the latest weapons to modernized light fighters, since the implemented principle of “open architecture” allows the modification of modern weapons in the shortest possible time. Secondly, the attack aircraft will be equipped with an active electronically scanned array [AESA] Zhuk-AM. Why is it important? Because a good fighter is a living fighter. The sooner the enemy is spotted, the sooner it will be destroyed.

According to some reports, the station is capable of detecting any target with an effective spread area of about 5 m² at a distance of about 225 km. This means that an F-22-type target with an EPR of 0.5 m² will be detected by Russian radar already at a distance of 80 miles (126 km) from the carrier – a distance proportional to the 4th power of 10.

The older “birds” – F-15, F-16, F-18 – will appear on the radar from a distance of 200 km. In general, the functionality of Zhuk-AM is similar to the capabilities of the F-16 radar.
MiG-35 is the Russian most advanced fighter

This is not only a Russian opinion. Many Western experts also believe that the MiG-35 is the most advanced Russian fighter jet that Russia has managed to stop producing. Although the information about it is mostly according to the technical specifications, they cannot be ignored.

The MiG-35 can track up to 30 targets and engage six targets simultaneously. The MiG-35 has been described by the American publication 19fortyfive.com as a “brain power”. I.e. the aircraft can easily be integrated to operate autonomously with other air platforms and fighters of the Russian Air Force. Something achievable for today’s fifth-generation fighters [MiG-35 is 4++ gen].

The MiG-35 can reach a top speed of Mach 2.25. It can fly at altitudes of up to 65,000 feet, and the airframe is designed to withstand 9G in the positive limits and 3G m in the negative limits. The MiG-35 is powered by two Klimov RD-33MK turbofan engines with an afterburner.
If the MiG-35 was in Ukraine today

The MiG-35 would be a major success in Ukraine. This fighter is perfectly suited to be directly targeted against tanks, ships, and heavy artillery. It is armed with guided and unguided bombs, air-to-air, and air-to-ground missiles, and a highly lethal 30mm cannon. The MiG-35 has an integrated electronic warfare pod, making it super suitable for attacking enemy air defense systems.

Western experts give it an “A” rating for maneuverability. This fighter is super maneuverable. It performs missions at supercritical angles of attack without any problems at an increased level of sustained and available g-loads and a high degree of yaw angle.
Why not Su-75 Checkmate?

Russia has a very interesting project – Su-75. Why don’t they develop it then? In fact, “Checkmate” is developing, but not as fast as the Russians would like. However, the Su-75 is a very promising development that is not known when it will be tested and it is not known when it will be put into production.

Yes, the Su-75 has its advantages, but in general, apart from the single-engine design, more powerful radar, and stealth technologies, this “dryer” completely performs the same set of tasks as the MiG-35.

That is why local Russian experts believe that Moscow is making the right decision to increase its air fleet with MiG-35s. These fighters can only be retired when the Su-75 is named, and there will be at least about a hundred in service.

***

Another reason not to go for the Checkmate... it hasn't even flown yet...

Source: https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2023/05/14/mig-35-mass-production-with-aesa-radar-finding-f-22-at-80-mi/

So that article is from May 2023...

First planes will be entering service 2025, and they don't give numbers but I would expect at least 12 per year in 2025 and more the following year.

This article repeats what I have been saying... you don't plough a field with a Rolls Royce... a smaller lighter cheaper plane makes more sense where you have one third large heavy more capable aircraft, with two thirds smaller lighter cheaper aircraft for jobs that don't require the bigger type.

Would recommend visiting the site as it has some nice photos worth looking at.

There is a computer term gigo. It means garbage in garbage out.

It is relevant to most systems from library databases to tactical battle maps.

If you pay minimum wage to some high school dropout to enter all your library books onto a computer database what you will end up with is an almost useless system because odds are they wont enter any search information for each book. Likely they will enter title, author, and ISBN number and a dewey decimal number if it has one.

Not many people using that library are going to search for books on title if they just want to read a new book about something.

A tactical battle map is only as useful as how up to date and accurate the information on it is.

If you send out a recon group then areas near that recon group will likely be up to date and accurate, but the rest could have anything there.

Having front line fighters in numbers flying just behind your lines, scanning with modern AESA radars looking for targets and threats and also showing friendly forces is a great way to populate your battle maps in real time, and giving your commanders on the ground access to their view also makes their job easier... they can highlight targets they want help with and indicate where they are and where they might be headed. That view could also be passed to artillery and CAS to indicate where enemy attacks are taking place... the point is that having 600 heavy flankers in your air force means you might have 50 Flankers available for this conflict 24 / 7, but if you have a cheaper lighter fighter to do the dog work like a MiG-35 then that would mean 100 MiG-35s in theatre and 1200 aircraft in the fleet to fill gaps and add sensors and weapons.

The advantage of recon drones is that they are cheap and can practically operate round the clock with replacements taking their place... the problems are that they almost never are able to hit targets as they spot them, they are not fast so they can only cover a relatively small area at a time, and being cheap they have mostly optics for sensors which has problems with fog and mist and rain and snow.

A MiG-35 is not as cheap as a drone but it is not a question of one or the other... you can use both... MiG-35s can hang back from the battlefield and use their radar to scan the ground for moving targets, and the EW will likely pick up electronic emissions too... they might even detect drone operators and drones that transmit video signals... it might not decode them but it could locate them which would be useful because a decent communications link with ground forces would quickly establish where friendly drone operators are so enemy drone operators can be targeted. Taking out drones is one thing but taking out experienced drone operators is also a very very useful thing.

I am not going to claim they wont lose MiG-35s... it is a war and no aircraft is invincible... but when you have 50 Su-35s and 100 MiG-35s then the loss of one plane is not going to effect operations that much.

Not suggesting they would be expendable but the export sales price for the MiG-29M and MiG-35 is 30-40 million dollars each. The Russian AF probably pays half that... and with serial production the price would likely go down over time even further because savings can be made by buying materials and equipment in bulk.

And retooling and upgrades can be justified.

Alexey Matveev was appointed director of the Mikoyan Design Bureau

The duties of director of the Mikoyan Design Bureau are entrusted to Alexey Matveev, who previously held the position of deputy director of the Sukhoi Design Bureau for design - head of the design bureau.

Andrey Nedosekin will continue to work as Deputy Director of the Mikoyan Design Bureau.

This decision is in line with the ongoing corporate transformation of the UAC, an important part of which is the unification of the competencies of leading aviation schools in the field of operational-tactical aviation. In the context of growing volumes of work on the development of new and modernization of existing aviation complexes, as well as taking into account the need to increase the efficiency of joint work, while maintaining two product brands - Su and MiG, UAC is implementing solutions aimed at achieving the greatest synergistic effect.

Alexey Matveev has significant experience in the aircraft industry. He graduated from Moscow Aviation Institute in 1995. Immediately after graduation, he went to work at the Sukhoi Design Bureau.

Over the years of his work at the Sukhoi Design Bureau, he was directly involved in the development of design documentation for the Su-80 and Su-30MKI aircraft. As head of the design bureau, he ensured the production of electronic documentation for the 5th generation Su-57 aircraft. He supervised the development, construction support and flight testing of the Su-57 aircraft. Internally, he is the Director of the Research and Development Center for Supercomputer Technologies.
Has government and departmental awards.

-----

It's a general MIG post, but it seems we will see the return of MIG

Good post there Garry. Lots of info, might I suggest you copy it into the Mig thread or it will get lost here?

While we are OT, perhaps we could view the development of the Mig-29 into the Mig-35X as similar to the evolution of all F-15 variants into the F-15EX with a dual cockpit but not used when delivered as a C/D replacement? Unlike Sukhoi with 2 different airframes.

Good post there Garry. Lots of info, might I suggest you copy it into the Mig thread or it will get lost here?

While we are OT, perhaps we could view the development of the Mig-29 into the Mig-35X as similar to the evolution of all F-15 variants into the F-15EX with a dual cockpit but not used when delivered as a C/D replacement? Unlike Sukhoi with 2 different airframes.

I might prune a lot of off topic stuff from this thread... Putins appointments of new people to new positions are not really directly related to the military operation and should be in political threads too...

The lesson MiG learned was with the Su-27UB because before that twin seat aircraft were limited performance trainers like the MiG-29UB, but the Su-27UB had a full radar and systems... the only differences were reduced fuel capacity and two seats for the two seater obviously, which led to the Su-30.

Don't know where you get this bs about Sukhoi fucking them over?

Did you hear the story of the engineer that moved from MiG to Sukhoi and took with him the design of the MiG-29... the unsuccessful T-10 turned into the MiG-29 like T-10M overnight... suspicious much?

During the Cold War MiG had a lot of power politically so when the cold war ended there was a shift and MiG became the black sheep and had to fight for every programme and defense dollar.

Their projects were rejected for the most ridiculous reasons... the MiG-29K was rejected because it was almost as expensive as the Su-33, but the MiG-29K was a fully multirole that was modern and capable for the time and the Su-33 was a warmed over Su-27P with folding bits and a tail hook.

The fact is in April 2007 Algeria stopped making payments regarding quality issues (old parts).

Corruption happens... you don't throw the baby out with the bath water... you investigate and solve the problems and carry on.

Mikoyan's crooked management (at the time) was to blame for this fiasco.

Something Sukhoi would perhaps like you to think...

There were all sorts of stories about MiG overcharging and being evil... but it was OK cause you could always buy Sukhoi.

Most of the stories turned out to be gutter press bullshit like countries that bought MiG fighters from airforces wanting to sell excess airframes but didn't want to sell parts to keep them for the aircraft they didn't sell. Well you buy a cheap aircraft second hand and then go to the company that makes it and expect a special deal on parts and support you have another think coming.

You charge extra to such customers to punish them for not buying from you in the first place and getting a good support contract when you buy new or second hand from us.

Basic business.

Going for the Mig-35 is a step backwards and I doubt they will go that direction.

I disagree... it is more part of the step forward... just like the Su-35 was used to bolster the strength of the Air Force while the Su-57 was being perfected and improved and introduced, MiG has a light single engined stealth fighter in development and introduction of MiG-35 will allow a lot of the new technology they are developing for it to be field tested and made operational... and deployed to service quickly.

In a net centric system having an enormous number of high quality sensors and weapon systems deployed improves the quality of information gathering in a way a few recon units would not be suitable for.

It makes sense to introduce and produce MiG-35s and then MiG-LMFS to get numbers of quality aircraft into the air all able to fight and work together finding and engaging enemy forces.

They will have to develop 6th gen fighters and the Su-57 is a very solid basis to work from.

The Americans are talking about 6th gen fighters because their two 5th gen fighters have been such failures... such expensive failures...

Russian 5th gen fighters already have features the US is projecting for 6th gen...

Wasn't it Mikoyan who sold "new" Mig-29SMT's to Algeria but then it was discovered that they were rebuilds from old air frames and then promptly send back by the Algerians?

The MiG-29SMT is an upgrade, it is not a new build design like the MiG-29M or MiG-35. The airframes they sold had not flown, they had been produced and stored.

Officially the Algerians wanted new made planes but the reality is that Sukhoi offered Su-30s for the same price as the MiG-29SMT and Algeria wanted out of the MiG contract so they could go for the Sukhoi offer.

They bought 14x  MiG-29M and M2 so they can't have been that annoyed at MiG.

I couldn't agree more. A fifty-year-old design with upgraded avionics and engines which never reached significant production numbers? Meanwhile, Su-30/35 aircraft are being manufactured at full speed. Why waste resources on a defunct design?

Talk to the Americans about that... they have put the even older F-15 into production and are looking at putting the F-16 back into production too.

Having a numbers fighter with a modern radar and modern ordinance and communications is a good thing... they did it with the Su-27 to create the Su-35 and the Su-30 but the MiG-35 is a single and two seat aircraft so they only need to make one type and get both.

The Su-35 is a useful aircraft and helped the development and deployment of the Su-57, and I would expect the MiG-35 would fill the same role of numbers till the new single engined 5th gen light stealth fighter from MiG is ready.

excited for a 4th gen over 5th gen aircraft, I hope you are fucking joking this will make us Turkey tier with hurjets and not above US tier for not having a stealth design aircraft without the cool UAV route.

5th gen is hard... in the west there are only two 5th gen fighter designs and the light model that is supposed to be the cheap numbers aircraft is total shit.

The Su-57 is a better light 5th gen fighter than the F-35 is, and MiG is trying to make a real light 5th gen fighter... which is not going to be easy... but money and production experience of making MiG-35s and also their export to export customers will enable MiG to better develop a new 5th gen single engined fighter.

Local experts have waxed lyrical over the Su-75 and claimed it is a done deal and I have said repeatedly... THEY have said repeatedly that this is for export and is not a Russian AF project. When it is ready they might look at it in comparison to what MiG come up with but MiG have the contract for the new aircraft and always did.

Commonality is useful where relevant but it does not always makes things cheaper or easier and I would say that the MiG model appears to be more like a stealthy Yak-130 like aircraft which is what many members have suggested all this time for the role... but because it is MiG somehow it is not so ideal... anymore.

I hope you are not one of those stealth is a gimmick tards, you better pray those mig-35s fly on photonic radars with 200-300km air to air missiles. There is nothing funny pursuing AESA which the west will always be a step ahead of you in while not reducing your aircrafts RCS while the west pursues single engine stealth designs. Its like you are trying to give the Ukrainians a fighting chance if they ever received F-16Vs and AIM-120Ds

Stealth is fine as long as it does not turn your fighter into a 120 million dollar piece of dogshit that costs 70K per flight hour to keep operational.

There are no 5th gen light fighters Russia can put into production now or in the next 5 years so bitching about the MiG-35 is ridiculous... it is the only game in town for Russia at the moment and the new light 5th gen fighter that MiG are developing would benefit from having in service fighters that can test systems and equipment and ideas for the new design without having to make special prototypes just yet.

They need a numbers fighter to boost aircraft numbers and a MiG-35 is not stealthy but has less of a RCS than an Su-35.

The air defence network Russia has operating over Russia and Ukraine does not rely on the radar in the aircraft launching the missile so a MiG-35 can accelerate and climb and launch a long range R-37M missile at a target 250km away just the same as an Su-35 could... but it would use less fuel doing so because it is smaller and lighter and cheaper.

Looks even better in its new shape

Well until it actually flys it is vapourware. (not saying it is bad, but it has not flown yet so cancelling the MiG-35 over a plane that will take at least 5 years to pass tests and probably 8-10 years for serial production to start is not reasonable from an air force management point of view.)

MiG-35s are in production... and would be easier to get into service in large numbers if needed.

It was completely absurd that a Russian company could make unfair businesses practices like those.

Especially since it was about export deals.

It was a criminal cynical act by Sukhoi to sabotage a rival... the sort of thing Rosoboronexport was created to prevent (and failed because Sukhoi was allowed to negotiate its own contracts).

But with Mig35, forget R37, with R77M you have a missile with range to kill other platforms at BVR range without compromising the payload of a smaller fighter like mig35

So it should be totally funded, AESA and R77M to boot

The MiG-35 is fully compatible with the R-37 AAM. It is not just for use against fighters but also for use against force multiplier aircraft like JSTARS and AWACS and tanker aircraft as well as troop transports and strike aircraft like B-1Bs and B-52s.

Hitting HATO tanker aircraft would dramatically reduce the performance of many of their fighters which really don't have very long legs when carrying ordinance.

OK there's still hope the Su-75 has not been cancelled for a more flawed project until that happens we will see.

On the strength of the information about the aircraft it will be just fine as an export aircraft. It is a true 5th gen light fighter that will be cheaper than western 4th gen fighters by a very wide margin and as cheap to operate as even older generation fighters (MiG-21). That is astounding.

And what will su75 give you that su57 doesn't?

Absolutely nothing

It does not look particularly small but Su-57 level performance in some areas at reduced purchase price and operational costs is what it is supposed to offer.

The MiG design seems to do better in my opinion... looking smaller and lighter like a Yak-130 with stealth and internal weapon bays.

MiG35 is the perfect plane for this, and having a 2nd AESA radar in the form of Zhuk is excellent to complement N036 Byelka

Funding two different companies making AESA radars is a good thing... AESA radars are everywhere and the radar on fighter planes have especially strict weight and heat and other limitations which will make other types of AESA radar better when such features are adopted across the range.

A portable four face AESA you could set up for a unit to detect air threats around the position would be very very useful... an IIR system that complimented it would go a long way to protect ground forces from attack from all sorts of threats.

Whats the selling point for this POS aircraft? Russia is not going to be winning any contracts If the French continuously upgrade the Rafale and Turkey introduces the hurjet, Gripens getting upgraded and F-16s are still getting upgraded by default the EW systems and radars will be better than what the Mig-35 will have.

R-37M outranges Meteor. MiG-35 is a quarter the price of F-16 and probably 1/6th the price of the Rafale and operational costs are going to be lower too. What is not to like?

With thrust vectoring engines if there is a dog fight the MiG-35 will kick the arse of any western fighter... have a look at the MiG-29OVT... no matter what missiles and radar you have the MiG-35 can point and shoot in any direction on command and recover and fly away without going into a stall.

They are also introducing newer air to ar missiles for these aircrafts., so not only will the Mig-35s not have a market to sell but they will be set up for failure for any conflict with a NATO country.

Really? Russia has operational scramjet powered cruise missiles. Meteor is a ramjet powered air to air missile, which limits its top speed to about mach 3-4. A scramjet powered version of Kh-31 would probably fly three times faster and three times further.

When it shoots down all the wests AWACS and inflight refuelling aircraft HATO is suddenly not so powerful...

Having MiG-35s many countries can afford to buy enough so HATO wont be able to arrive and overwhelm with numbers.

With Flankers not so much.

Its like if you want to cancel a 25-35 million stealth aircraft design like the Su-75 which is stated to fly in 2026 and they got contracts and all that with schvabe making the infrared system, than why not cancel the Mig-35s to save even more money if they are more useless in a conflict with the west?

The Su-75 is Sukhoi trying to steal a contract away from MiG again... they are ruthless.

MiG-35 is a cheap numbers aircraft that is 90% the performance of the Su-35 that you can buy more of and operate more of without bankrupting yourself.

Having a ratio of one Flanker to two MiG-35s is a GOOD thing... the extra aircraft numbers are actually more valuable because having three aircraft instead of one means you can cover more airspace at a time and be in more places at a time without tripling your costs and blowing your budget on operational costs.

The new single engined MiG is getting IIR systems too and so is the MiG-35... all the systems going into the Su-75 were intended for the Su-57 and S-70 so they wont go un developed.

Sukhoi was able to speed up development of the Su-57 by using the Su-35 as a test bed and operational testing of ideas with an operational aircraft and the money they made from Su-35 production helped fund developments and improvements and MiG is going to do the same.

Having Su-35s also meant the Russian air force had a boost in capabilities while waiting for the Su-57 to get ready.

Sometimes you have to wait for radar or engines, but having MiG-35s in service while you wait for a new light 5th gen single engined fighter means you don't have a bare arse while you are waiting.

There needs to be a new platform.

Technically Su-75 was that.

No it wasn't. The Russian AF said they would have a look at it when it is ready but this is a Sukhoi project for an export type. They said that at the beginning and continue to say it. This is not a Russian Air Force project. MiG are running the Ru AF project and it is secret.

Algeria asked and paid for NEW airframes not "had not been used before" ones

MiG-29SMT is an upgrade programme normally applied to existing aircraft. The airframes that were used were not freshly made, but they had not been used... they had not flown.

MiG tried their trademark bullshit and got caught red handed (again)

You mean Sukhoi fucked them over by offering an aircraft at a loss to steal the contract...

VKS hadn't had balls to even get close to the frontline because any time they do they get blown out of the sky

Because they don't have numbers planes that can overwhelm the defences.

Sending in one or two Su-25s or Su-35s and they will get shot down if they stay too long because they are too vulnerable to ambush.

Sending in 20 MiG-35s and you have 20 AESA radars and twenty lots of ARMs and other defensive systems all able to work together to deal with anything stupid enough to show its head.

It is like fighting in built up areas... one man going it is going to get killed because five or six different positions will see him and if he targets one the others will kill him because he can't watch and shoot against multiple enemies at once.

Having 100 snipers there anyone who fires and gives away their position is in trouble and will get hammered.

Only thing "aviating" near the frontline are drones, cruse missiles and glide bombs

If Su-35 can't survive in that environment shitty ass MiG-35 definitely can't

With AESA radar and glide bombs the MiG-35s don't have to operate any closer than the Su-35s do, but they can do it cheaper and do it in larger numbers and therefore provide more support to ground forces.

Why are you talking about cancelling su-75 ? It was developed by Sukhoi with its own money, MoD has noghing to do with it. This is mainly an export product to oppose f-35 because 4th gen fighters are less likely to be ordered by anyone and su-57 is the big fighter.

And for any smaller country that wants Su-57Es then Su-75s would compliment them and allow them to have rather more 5th gen fighters than they would otherwise be able to afford... that is the whole purpose of the light fighter concept... instead of having 12 Flankers and being vulnerable you have 12 flankers and 24 checkmates, or 12 Su-57Es and 24 checkmates.

At 60 million per Su-57Es and 30 million for the Su-75s that is actually very affordable for countries who need to defend themselves and 36 fifth gen fighters will do better than 12 any day.

Algeria spotted these old parts on their Migs and refused to make any further payments. The rest is history. Not only that - a few years later Syria discovered the same problem of old and defective parts on their Mig-29SMT's after a crash investigation.

Which is nothing at all to do with the design of the aircraft.

Like I said above they later bought MiG-29M and MiG-29M2 aircraft.[/quote]

The real reason why they chose the Su-27K(Su-33) and not the Mig-29K was threefold. One the Su-27K had a much lower landing speed and secondly it offered a much longer range than the Mig-29K. Thirdly the Navy at that time could only afford ONE fighter type for the carrier.

Almost. The reason the Russian AF rejected the MiG-29SMT upgrades was because they wanted a fighter interceptor that could drop dumb bombs and fire rockets at targets... they didn't want the expense of a multirole fighterbomber.... and not just the aircraft cost but the cost of the guided ordinance which they didn't want to have to buy in large volumes to make sense. Things like inflight refuelling probes were no advantage then either with strategic aviation being the only operators of inflight refuelling aircraft in their forces.

The Navy rejected the multirole MiG-29K for the same reason... the aircraft were for air cover and had only basic strike roles with dumb bombs and rockets like the Su-27.

Now that guided weapons are becoming affordable their lack of multirole aircraft has become a problem.

Sukhoi was next in line to present the T-10 and unlike the Mig-29, the T-10 utilized the blended wing/body layout.

The T-10M looks rather more like a MiG-29 than the T-10 does. The drawings of the early MiG-29 look different from the prototypes that flew... before the T-10 flew.

MiG also had a single engine design for the competition that they eventually won with the MiG-29.

The Izd-33 actually looks like a Soviet F-16 but was rejected because it was single engined... like the MiG-21 and MiG-23.

Yet many complain that MiG didn't make the MiG-29 a single engined fighter...

@Mir - love this rewriting history by GB stuff


But seriously, GB fell in love with the MiG, and when the heart is burning, the brain sleeps. No arguments will get through. The MiG-35 would have been a decent plane 15-20 years ago, but not anymore. Investing in the development of an old design, which exhausted it's modernization potential, would be a waste of resources, both in terms of engineering and finances.

Su-57 then Su-75 are the future. BTW MiG engineers who are still left work for the same company as Sukhoi do so they can contribute to Su-75 too. Let's see what Belousov will decide

...and you all didn't take the S-70 Okhotnik in consideration.

If it will be combat coded this year and sent into serial production as they have already announced the VKS would have its low tier attack plane.
Ok, it's subsonic but it would allow to wait for the Su-75 to be ready...

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
p.s. I like that there is commonality between some of the new sukhoi projects, but I would also prefer if Russia could have an independent supply chain for other planes, like Mig-35 or a brand new one (including engines, radars, etc)

Unlikely independent - MiG nd Sukhoi are part of one company. Perhaps if MiG design team wpudl be rebuild till some degree they could provide im design phase their ideas. If we won't hear anything form Belousov soon MiG-35 is dead.

Su75 is purely an export project and won't be ready in the next 15 years

Get real, if you seriously think a flying prototype will be ready in 2026, go look at every other established timeline for other prototype and check out how delayed they are from T14, to Project 677 to virtually all new projects

Su75 ain't gonna be ready until 2035 - earliest and that's prototype

Mig35 is a solution here and now which can provide a stop gap until PAK DP is ready

There is no need for Su75 in the VKS, while it is cheaper to operate than Su57, the mig light fighter is going to be smaller and cheaper than su75

Saving money will be done by buying MiG in ample quantities and to spool up production of AESA radar for 4++ Gen aircraft and then develop one for PAK DP which will most likely be Phazotron as MIG is designing PAK DP

So ofc it makes sense to fund investment in AESA from Phazotron as only MiG would know the dimensions to be used for the radar on future PAK DP

N036 Byelka might not fit the design, and Tikhomirov is only building that radar as an AESA

So absolutely investment needs to go into Phazotron

All this bullshit about photonic radar is funny if you think any of it will be ready in the next decade

As long as MiG is in charge of PAKDP/Mig41, it absolutely needs an AESA

Or wtf, is it going to reuse Zaslon well sukhoi would love that very much , but it ain't happening

Arkanghelsk wrote:Su75 is purely an export project and won't be ready in the next 15 years

Get real, if you seriously think a flying prototype will be ready in 2026, go look at every other established timeline for other prototype and check out how delayed they are from T14, to Project 677 to virtually all new projects

Su75 ain't gonna be ready until 2035 - earliest and that's prototype

Mig35 is a solution here and now which can provide a stop gap until PAK DP is ready

There is no need for Su75 in the VKS, while it is cheaper to operate than Su57, the mig light fighter is going to be smaller and cheaper than su75

Saving money will be done by buying MiG in ample quantities and to spool up production of AESA radar for 4++ Gen aircraft and then develop one for PAK DP which will most likely be Phazotron as MIG is designing PAK DP

So ofc it makes sense to fund investment in AESA from Phazotron as only MiG would know the dimensions to be used for the radar on future PAK DP

N036 Byelka might not fit the design, and Tikhomirov is only building that radar as an AESA

So absolutely investment needs to go into Phazotron

All this bullshit about photonic radar is funny if you think any of it will be ready in the next decade

The pushback for the T-14 was its engines and even the Rostec CEO stated the tank was to pricey to be used on the battlefield, the only difference is the AL-41F1 is repeatedly proven and is not a new engine like the T-14. You literally brought an unrelated comparison as an argument for an unclaimed delay.

They are flying it 1st in 2026 than to set up a production date if the air force calls for it since they got other fighter aircrafts set to mass production.

4th gen aircraft, inferior radar and EW systems, wont profit in the market, Gives NATO something less to worry about than engaging Su-57s and Su-35s.

You honestly don't have a price tag estimate of any source that the Mig-35 is cheaper and if it is indeed cheaper, it won't be cheaper by alot. The Su-75 already has signed contracts for newer radars and infrared systems and the mig-35 is still stuck with a decade or older avionics systems, reduced RCS will also significantly give the Su-75 an edge for air to air or air to combat roles against NATO.

Or they can save money with their continued use of 4th gen aircrafts and wait for a cheaper and more combat capable aircraft than the Mig-35 if they just wait a little bit.

What makes Phazatron better than Niip? Niip was atleast rewarded a contract to work with a 5th gen aircraft over phazatron.

They stated its smaller version of the proven byelka and the byelka has went through a few modifications for its radars, and the new avionics upgrade package for 2025 might include newer radars as well for the next batch of Su-57s, which can be used for the Su-75 because the Su-75 friendly with radar modifications.


-Kret had their own website with news articles talking about photonic radars, gets nuked from web.
-Vega had their own website with news articles talking about photonic radars, gets nuked from web.
-aorti.ru website of RTI had their own website with news articles talking about photonic radars, gets nuked from web.
-Advanced research foundation had display of the photonic radar antennas with news info about them, cant open webpage
https://fpi.gov.ru/press/news/razra...ntenna-voshla-v-top-10-izobreteniy-2020-goda/
-https://youtu.be/a2lOyCbTUl4 31:50 timestamp
-have a planned production date for PICs in 2024 from 2023 article.

we got like 7 months left in 2024 for me to provide you when the PIC production will start or if Russians begin introducing 6G networks.
If you have been in this forum long enough, every equipment made by Russia was intended to be built to be more superior to what the west was using, now why would they scale down for a more inferior product over a superior product option that has a better operable combat role against NATO? Please tell me you work at phazatron or Mikoyan or you have family members that do for this unnecessary shilling?

Mir wrote:

There is no relation between the Mig-35 and the PAK DP - just upgrade more MIg-31's if there is a problem.

Of course there is, similar to how su35 was a tech demonstrator for things implemented on PAK FA

MiG 35 can certainly be a tech demonstrator for the OLS, Radar, and other solutions developed by Phazotron/Mig for PAK DP

Sure Zaslon is Tikhomirov, but we know that PESA won't be used on PAK DP

Can they use N036 ? Maybe - but it's questionable if N036 will even be applicable to PAK DP

Maybe Phazotron can develop larger AESA to use on first prototypes

The point is, the more input there is into development the better the prospects for the PAK DP

Certainly we don't know anything about it yet, from engines to radar, to shape of fuselage , and every detail remains a question

In this case how long can you keep upgrading MiG31 which already has accidents and which engines are not in production?

Are they restarting D30 production? Well there was talk about it , but still we've seen delays in bringing back older engines

Developing a new one is probably the best solution

KNAAPO is busy with su57, and Saturn is still ironing out AL51 production

In what world is there money or resources to build another export project so that sukhoi can make money? As far as I see it KNAAPO needs to focus 1000% on su57 production and increasing numbers

If they devote any space to su75 , I think they should be penalized for prioritizing export revenue over the domestic needs of the VKS

All of these are hypothetical, but for sure su75 won't be ready in 2026 for initial flight, and if the sukhoi team is rushing this for exports, i think intervention will be needed, because su57 needs to be ironed out first and foremost