[Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

Any news on T-14 production, now that the germans have unvieled the panther? Do you think the T-14 will be produced serially before 2025?

The Panther is to the Leopard II what the T-90AM is to the T-72...

Armata is a new vehicle family.

limb wrote:Any news on T-14 production, now that the germans have unvieled the panther? Do you think the T-14 will be produced serially before 2025?

Should be under production this year. I think.
https://tass.com/defense/1310465

limb wrote:Any news on T-14 production, now that the germans have unvieled the panther? Do you think the T-14 will be produced serially before 2025?

It is unlikely to be produced like hot cakes if that is what you're expecting. Like the su 57 or the Yasen class sub, they design new stuff to ease it into service. And slowly let it take over over the next 15-20 years.

The west seems to do it differently.

Backman wrote:
The west seems to do it differently.

You mean that they don't do it at all, right?

Backman wrote:
It is unlikely to be produced like hot cakes if that is what you're expecting. Like the su 57 or the Yasen class sub, they design new stuff to ease it into service. And slowly let it take over over the next 15-20 years.

The west seems to do it differently.

That was back then when they were still parking their excess revenue in western bank accounts. Now? That shit's going to the military.

What does this have to do with Armata tank thread?

There is a good chance Russia has already built more Armata T-14s than Germany will make of Panthers... how much of their industry requires gas for energy and furnaces and other processes essential for a range of areas including chemicals etc etc.

Having said that an Armata division will eventually have all Armata platforms, so right now a tank division the T-90s would be replaced by T-14s, while the BMP-3s would be replaced by T-15s, and BREM recovery vehicles will be replaced by T-16s and of course their MSTA artillery vehicles will be replaced by 2S35 Coalition vehicles and their reloading vehicles too. Eventually all the vehicles currently used in tank and motor rifle divisions will be replaced with Armata based versions, while in different areas where the emphasis is more on mobility and speed and coordination then Kurganets and Boomerang divisions will be used in motor rifle and tank versions where the tank model will have the T-14 turret on the Boomerang chassis (K-XX) or the Kurganets chassis (B-XX), in addition to the other existing vehicles... APC, IFV, artillery, air defence, mortar carrier etc etc etc.

GarryB wrote:The Panther is to the Leopard II what the T-90AM is to the T-72...

Armata is a new vehicle family.

No! The panther is based on the "Puma" vehicle family. It's a complete new constrcution...of course based on existing subsystems. But it's only a demonstrator and no contract was signed for the "Panther". The new french german tank should be the Leopard 3 and not even a mockup of this tank exists.

The images shown it appears to be a Leopard II with a bigger turret that is still clearly manned.

GarryB wrote:The images shown it appears to be a Leopard II with a bigger turret that is still clearly manned.

Yes...the appearance is more like Leopard 2, but the technology is from Puma family. The gearbox and other parts of motorization is from leopard 2, the other modular technology from Puma (and the armor technology more or less). The turret can be manned or unmanned (depending on desired version).

The panther is a demonstrator, because Rheinmetall was really pissed off in the project group of the new main ground combat system (Leopard 3 more or less). The influence of KMW Nexter is too big... Hahahaha So the Panther is only a help cry for more attention, money, influence or whatever. But of course they can sell it to interested countries.

But yes...it looks like a cool version of Leopard 2

It's a new tank, but it's not a revolution, more a evolution of existing western systems.

Just more NATO smoke & mirrors, PR, propaganda war

West strong fanboys used the term vapourware regarding the Su-75 so what should we call these napkin scribbles?  

it is not just a case of developing a family of vehicles to replace existing types... your military forces need to get on board and fully support it with all the changes to policy and tactics and procurement and planning... plus one family is not good enough... it is too expensive to just have tank based vehicles, which is why Russia essentially has five families... Armata, Kurganets, Boomerang, Typhoon and DT twin chassis families.

Azi wrote:So the Panther is only a help cry for more attention, money, influence or whatever. But of course they can sell it to interested countries.

Not with a gun in a caliber that no one uses, no. Unless you're fine with paying 50 Gs a piece for artisanal ammunition.

Hands down one the best written article on the T-14 thus far:
https://www.guerra-acorazada.blog/t-14-armata-evaluacion-tecnica-preliminar/
Its in Spanish, so use a translator if you have to. The site has loads of content behind a paywall, but it has lots of free articles to tide you over some.
The author also runs a YT channel https://www.youtube.com/c/GuerraAcorazada/videos if you want to check that out.

Russia unveils export version of Armata at Army forum

https://tass.com/defense/1495461

Wonder if that means state tests have been wrapped up. I heard they had some issues with the APS and some other things. Could be wrong but I dont think so as it has been taking some time for small batch serial production. Also wonder about top attack APS beyond just smoke dischargers.

TMA1 wrote:Wonder if that means state tests have been wrapped up. I heard they had some issues with the APS and some other things.  Could be wrong but I dont think so as it has been taking some time for small batch serial production. Also wonder about top attack APS beyond just smoke dischargers.

APS in Armata is directional and able against top attack.

As to the state tests and serial production, it is important to understand that Russian weapons systems are not boutique ware like in the West, they need to be cheap, effective, trustworthy, able for mass production, maintainable in field, easy to repair and meet a long etc. of complex and often mutually exclusive requirements. They are in no hurry at all, in fact they are too advanced in terms of MBT technology and haven't any interest in allowing the West to advance in their wake. The West is 20 years from deploying something equivalent to Armata, so why to hurry

LMFS wrote:

TMA1 wrote:Wonder if that means state tests have been wrapped up. I heard they had some issues with the APS and some other things.  Could be wrong but I dont think so as it has been taking some time for small batch serial production. Also wonder about top attack APS beyond just smoke dischargers.

APS in Armata is directional and able against top attack.

As to the state tests and serial production, it is important to understand that Russian weapons systems are not boutique ware like in the West, they need to be cheap, effective, trustworthy, able for mass production, maintainable in field, easy to repair and meet a long etc. of complex and often mutually exclusive requirements. They are in no hurry at all, in fact they are too advanced  in terms of MBT technology and haven't any interest in allowing the West to advance in their wake. The West is 20 years from deploying something equivalent to Armata, so why to hurry

Name me a single Russian army AFV thats not a development of a soviet model that isnt being produced in boutique quantities, but mass produced?

Tigr.

TMA1 wrote:Wonder if that means state tests have been wrapped up. I heard they had some issues with the APS and some other things.  Could be wrong but I dont think so as it has been taking some time for small batch serial production. Also wonder about top attack APS beyond just smoke dischargers.

The obscuring multispectral smoke dischargers are arguably more effective than physical interception. Even the best APS would have some dead time after interception where anything in that engaged sector can just sail on through. And Russian vehicle mount ATGMs have salvo fire as standard - even their ATGM teams have taken to co-locating their launch positions so they can double tap hardened targets in quick succession.

LMFS wrote:
APS in Armata is directional and able against top attack.

Top-side protection is only covered by soft-kill countermeasures. The hard-kill effectors are fixed at the base of the turret where they can provide near-instantaneous reaction to even hypervelocity arrows. Only downside is training to intercept is locked at the speed of the turret rotation so you better have the gun pointed in the general direction of the enemy or you're toast. I like it. Its not a crutch, but a tool that only works in your favor if you know what you are doing.

limb wrote:
Name me a single Russian army AFV thats not a development of a soviet model that isnt being produced in boutique quantities, but mass produced?

Name me a single Western country that can even produce cold war gear in actual numbers.
Also, how many rounds of pass the Leopard are the Europeans on again?

lyle6 wrote:
Top-side protection is only covered by soft-kill countermeasures. The hard-kill effectors are fixed at the base of the turret where they can provide near-instantaneous reaction to even hypervelocity arrows. Only downside is training to intercept is locked at the speed of the turret rotation so you better have the gun pointed in the general direction of the enemy or you're toast. I like it. Its not a crutch, but a tool that only works in your favor if you know what you are doing.

From what I read the cassette is thrown out of the tube and it directs the preformed projectile towards the incoming target, do you have other information?

LMFS wrote:
From what I read the cassette is thrown out of the tube and it directs the preformed projectile towards the incoming target, do you have other information?

The hardkill component of Afghanit is basically Drozd-3. Even uses the same 107 mm caliber for its rockets.

The EFP is from an unrelated patent.

Just to add here's a picture of the modernized Raptor which has the Afghanit-lite (basically a smaller caliber system in use with the Kurganets) rockets pointing skywards:

They are hardly going to do it this way if the interceptors can cover the upper hemisphere with horizontal launchers.