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S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

dino00

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Post n°251

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

dino00 Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:37 am

The hunter drone will be tested with weapons in 2023-2024

Serial deliveries of UAVs to the troops will begin in 2025, specified in the apparatus of Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov

The bulk of the flight tests [of the" Hunter "] is planned to be carried out in the period 2023-2024, including in the strike version with various aviation weapons," the deputy chairman of the government said in the apparatus.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6806529

Cyberspec

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Post n°252

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

Cyberspec Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:45 am

dino00 wrote:The hunter drone will be tested with weapons in 2023-2024

Serial deliveries of UAVs to the troops will begin in 2025, specified in the apparatus of Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov

The bulk of the flight tests [of the" Hunter "] is planned to be carried out in the period 2023-2024, including in the strike version with various aviation weapons," the deputy chairman of the government said in the apparatus.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6806529

Pretty tight timeline but doable if they're planning an intensive development program

...

Interesting bit of info on the S-70 from the boss himself...max ceiling 18000 m, range 6000 km

At 9:00 Erdogan asks Putin how high and far can it fly

dino00

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Post n°253

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

dino00 Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:29 pm

Small yes strike: drones armed with cruise missiles

Units of the invisible UAV "Hunter" can become a full replacement for aircraft

The western and southern strategic directions will be strengthened by the latest “Hunter” stealth drones. Unseen by enemy radars, vehicles can carry a whole arsenal of weapons on board, including cruise missiles and ultra-precise guided bombs. According to experts, in the event of aggression against Russia, such drones will be able to replace aircraft in the most dangerous directions so that the airborne crews are not exposed to unnecessary risk.

The Ministry of Defense decided to form the Okhotnik in the Western and Southern military districts for the detachment of the latest drone unmanned vehicles, the military department told Izvestia. New units will be created in 2024

More
https://iz.ru/914836/roman-kretcul-aleksei-ramm/mal-da-udar-bespilotniki-vooruzhat-krylatymi-raketami

Cyberspec

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Post n°254

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

Cyberspec Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:06 pm

New video

...S-70 flying in tandem with Su-57

magnumcromagnon

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Post n°255

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

magnumcromagnon Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:14 pm

Cyberspec wrote:New video ...S-70 flying in tandem with Su-57

S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 11 1569580766_snimok

Cyberspec

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Post n°256

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

Cyberspec Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:57 pm

Russia flies MUM-T trial with Okhotnik UAV and Su-57 fighter

The ministry released a video of the flight of the Sukhoi UAV, which lasted more than 30 minutes and was conducted in autonomous mode from an MoD test airfield.

During the flight, the UAV interacted with the Su-57 to test extending the fighter's radar and target designation range for long-range air-launched weapons outside enemy air defence coverage, the MoD reported.

...

As noted by the MoD, the Okhotnik UAV served as a ‘sensor-amplifier’ for the Su-57, flying out ahead of the manned aircraft and using its onboard sensors to feed information back to the pilot.

https://www.janes.com/article/91563/russia-flies-mum-t-trial-with-okhotnik-uav-and-su-57-fighter

https://www.janes.com/article/91559/russia-s-okhotnik-uav-makes-first-flight-with-su-57

magnumcromagnon

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Post n°257

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

magnumcromagnon Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:28 am

Supersonic after all?

S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 11 EFzdD6wU0AEaKbs

Thrust-vectoring is better than vertical tail to control flight anyway....you can still have stable flight but with less weight and drag a vertical surface would bring.

marcellogo

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Post n°258

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

marcellogo Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:21 am

magnumcromagnon wrote:Supersonic after all?

Thrust-vectoring is better than vertical tail to control flight anyway....you can still have stable flight but with less weight and drag a vertical surface would bring.

1400kmh is 1.1M so transonic would be more accurate...
And IMHO not any real advantage from such a modest increase of speed, 1.5m being the minimum to make a difference.

GarryB

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Post n°259

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

GarryB Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:20 pm

It will mean most interceptors will need to go supersonic for a chance to intercept most of the time... which for aircraft like the F-35 will dramatically reduce their effective flight radius.... so it is well worth while.

1,400km/h is not very supersonic... but then I presume this is the same first stage engine as is being used on the Su-57... with the next gen engine it should be able to fly faster... and with such low drag it might be able to supercruise which would extend flight range even further.

william.boutros

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Post n°260

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

william.boutros Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:06 pm

magnumcromagnon wrote:Supersonic after all?

Thrust-vectoring is better than vertical tail to control flight anyway....you can still have stable flight but with less weight and drag a vertical surface would bring.

Wonder whether the Russians will go without control surfaces as BAE and the chinese are trying to do.

magnumcromagnon

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Post n°261

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

magnumcromagnon Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:42 pm

marcellogo wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:Supersonic after all?

Thrust-vectoring is better than vertical tail to control flight anyway....you can still have stable flight but with less weight and drag a vertical surface would bring.

1400kmh is 1.1M so transonic would be more accurate...
And IMHO not any real advantage from such a modest increase of speed, 1.5m being the minimum to make a difference.

1,400km/h or Mach 1.1 is not Transonic. Transonic speed is 965 km/h to 1,235 km/h or Mach 0.72 to Mach 1

kvs

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Post n°262

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

kvs Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:19 pm

That's right, after Mach 1 is reached the sub-Mach turbulence shuts down. The famous "speed of sound barrier" is crossed.

william.boutros

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Post n°263

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

william.boutros Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:21 am

A major role for this drone could be to carry additional radars and network them with existing fighter aircraft improving their stealth detection capabilities.

GarryB

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Post n°264

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

GarryB Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:54 pm

A decent radar in this UCAV flying very high up could be directed downwards and NATO F-35s... if networked with Su-57s and Su-35s and MiG-35s those manned aircraft can operate with their radars in listening mode to detect reflections of the radar signals from the UCAV deflected in directions away from the UCAV.

In other words it could form the emitter component of a bistatic radar with the emitter up high and receivers all over the place looking for the target...

It could also be flown up to the front lines and launch a long range AAM shot at NATO force multiplier aircraft like inflight refuelling aircraft, JSTARS, and AWACS, and well as troop transports and other aircraft whose loss would have a serious impact on NATO operations.

It could also take out Patriot batteries at extended ranges ahead of an attack.

kvs

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Post n°265

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

kvs Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:59 pm

GarryB wrote:A decent radar in this UCAV flying very high up could be directed downwards and NATO F-35s... if networked with Su-57s and Su-35s and MiG-35s those manned aircraft can operate with their radars in listening mode to detect reflections of the radar signals from the UCAV deflected in directions away from the UCAV.

In other words it could form the emitter component of a bistatic radar with the emitter up high and receivers all over the place looking for the target...

It could also be flown up to the front lines and launch a long range AAM shot at NATO force multiplier aircraft like inflight refuelling aircraft, JSTARS, and AWACS, and well as troop transports and other aircraft whose loss would have a serious impact on NATO operations.

It could also take out Patriot batteries at extended ranges ahead of an attack.

This drone "pairing" will progress to more drones per manned jet in the future. A sort of high level drone swarm. This will eliminate
jet vs. jet dog fights. A jet accompanied by a number of high level drones is a new weapons system that will require the development
of new tactics and a different frame of mind.

magnumcromagnon

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Post n°266

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

magnumcromagnon Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:50 pm

william.boutros wrote:A major role for this drone could be to carry additional radars and network them with existing fighter aircraft improving their stealth detection capabilities.

Most likely the drone radars will be in ELINT/SIGINT listening mode flying ahead of the fighter aircraft and relay the data back to the fighter, while the fighter would turn on it's radar at full blast. The drones flying ahead would be carrying AAM's to engage fighter aircraft, almost like a localizing of the IAD concept specifically for the flying portion of aerospace defense. Something like this has been around in fighter aircraft (specifically in MiG-31 squadrons) for close to 30 years. The AAM's fired by the fighter aircraft would have increased performance because of the concept of 'flying command post' pioneered by the MiG-31, which back in 1992 had air-inception test were the MiG-31's launch R-33's and managed an increase of 66% in AAM range, where R-33 normally has a range of 200km, the 'command-post' exercise conducted by the MiG-31's managed to allow it to hit a target 300km away.

william.boutros

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Post n°267

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

william.boutros Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:44 pm

GarryB wrote:A decent radar in this UCAV flying very high up could be directed downwards and NATO F-35s... if networked with Su-57s and Su-35s and MiG-35s those manned aircraft can operate with their radars in listening mode to detect reflections of the radar signals from the UCAV deflected in directions away from the UCAV.

In other words it could form the emitter component of a bistatic radar with the emitter up high and receivers all over the place looking for the target...

It could also be flown up to the front lines and launch a long range AAM shot at NATO force multiplier aircraft like inflight refuelling aircraft, JSTARS, and AWACS, and well as troop transports and other aircraft whose loss would have a serious impact on NATO operations.

It could also take out Patriot batteries at extended ranges ahead of an attack.

I am not sure about the service ceiling and speed. It could be used to get longer visibility and improve weapons lock range.

Last edited by william.boutros on Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

GarryB

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Post n°268

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

GarryB Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:23 am

The original plan for the Su-30 was as a mini AWACS platform where one Su-30 would operate with smaller cheaper aircraft like MiG-29s or perhaps cheaper simpler model Su-27s where the Su-30 would use its more powerful and more expensive radar to find targets and the smaller and or cheaper fighters would fly higher and faster and closer to the target but in a radar silent mode.

These smaller lighter cheaper aircraft could use target data provided from the Su-30 to engage targets and use up their weapon load and return to base to rearm and refuel... they would burn fuel faster because they would be operating at high speed and high altitude to give their missiles a range and speed boost.

The result is a cheaper air force maximising the weapon load using smaller cheaper aircraft but using powerful and capable radars and self defence systems of the Su-30 in case the enemy got close enough to return fire.

I rather suspect these UCAVs could replace those cheap fighters... with no pilots and a rather stealthy shape they could fly relatively fast without burning a lot of fuel, and could pair up with manned fighters to maximise armament with stealth... they could work with Su-57s as well as with Su-35s and MiG-35s as either high altitude or low altitude support aircraft, and could take out enemy fighters and enemy radars and SAM sites from standoff ranges.

Operating at high altitude or low altitude with the aircraft they are supporting operating at medium altitude means an angle gap so radar signals from high, medium, low, or ground based angles should challenge any stealthy targets... radar signals from a ground source might be detectable from high altitude or vice versa... and of course wing mounted L band radar in Su-35 and Su-57 aircraft could just as easily be fitted to these drones for the same purpose...

dino00

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Post n°269

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

dino00 Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:18 am

Source: “Hunter” drone will use weapons for the first time during tests in 2020

According to the agency's interlocutor, by the end of 2019, the device will carry out a series of flights without using weapons in Akhtubinsk

"In 2020, the tests of" Hunter "in Akhtubinsk will be continued. As part of a new phase, the testing of the combat use of all on-board aircraft UAV weapons at the test site of the 929th GLITS [State Defense Testing Center of the Ministry of Defense] will begin," the agency’s interlocutor noted. The source added that by the end of this year, “Okhotnik” will carry out a series of flights without using weapons in Akhtubinsk. At the same time, it is expected that in some cases, the UAV "will fly up to several times a day, day and night, both independently and together with fighters.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/7005389

Cyberspec

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Post n°270

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

Cyberspec Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:42 am

Interesting article..

Okhotnik drone to change aviation tactics

It lasted 30 minutes. Both craft trained a mission to destroy targets. In particular, the drone increased Su-57 radar range and the aircraft fired missiles without entering the hostile air defense zone.

Experts say it was not a joint flight by the traditional master-slave scheme. Both craft were united by a single control, guidance, and engagement system and operated in a single network contour.

continue
http://www.airrecognition.com/index.php/focus-analysis-photo-report-aviation-defence-industry/aviation-defence-industry-technology/5552-okhotnik-drone-to-change-aviation-tactic.html

GarryB

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Post n°271

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

GarryB Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:21 am

With net centricity this is going to be normal.

By the same way that a MiG-29KR flying from the Kuznetsov extends the vision of ship based weapons, these drones also provide both sensors and weapons to expand reach and improve information because these drones can be sent into dangerous areas you wouldn't normally risk a single manned aircraft.

Being rather stealthy flying wings these drones can fly high which makes higher speeds and longer range easier to achieve because jet engines like medium and high altitude ops more than low altitude flying.

william.boutros

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Post n°272

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

william.boutros Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:10 pm

Cyberspec wrote:Interesting article..

Okhotnik drone to change aviation tactics

It lasted 30 minutes. Both craft trained a mission to destroy targets. In particular, the drone increased Su-57 radar range and the aircraft fired missiles without entering the hostile air defense zone.

Experts say it was not a joint flight by the traditional master-slave scheme. Both craft were united by a single control, guidance, and engagement system and operated in a single network contour.

continue
http://www.airrecognition.com/index.php/focus-analysis-photo-report-aviation-defence-industry/aviation-defence-industry-technology/5552-okhotnik-drone-to-change-aviation-tactic.html

This sounds more like the role of this drone. Are there any radar experts that can indicate by how much such a drone can improve a Su-57 radar range?

dino00

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Post n°273

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

dino00 Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:05 pm

The S-70 Okhotnik heavy drone model presented at MAKS-2019 matches its serial appearance, an officer at Sukhoi Design Bureau said.

- The prototype that flies in tandem with the Su-57 is a prototype demonstrator built for testing flight characteristics and an automatic control system for takeoff and landing. The product presented in the model is, of course, the development of the theme of the demonstrator’s sample, only in a form suitable for serial production and operation according to the tasks of the Ministry of Defense, the developer of the Hunter told the Zvezda channel .

https://rg.ru/2019/10/23/razrabotchik-rasskazal-o-serijnom-oblike-drona-ohotnik.html

Military Acceptance Sunday 9:55 in Russia will be about the latest R6ussian uav

GarryB

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Post n°274

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

GarryB Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:14 am

This sounds more like the role of this drone. Are there any radar experts that can indicate by how much such a drone can improve a Su-57 radar range?

I am no radar expert but they have been talking about surface mounted radar antenna for a while so having radar mounted in this drone should be relatively straight forward... whether the drone uses its radar closer to the enemy or perhaps inside enemy territory, or the Su-57 scans for targets and the much closer but radar silent drone listens to the radar return... assuming they are synchronised then the drone being closer to the target should receive a better signal return because the signal has not travelled as far and it would also detect signals not heading directly back to the source of the radar signalling so radar waves deflected away from the Su-57 that is scanning might be detected by several drones operating with the aircraft.

thegopnik

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Post n°275

Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

thegopnik Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:53 am

There are some confusing sources out there some say its weight is 20 tons, flies, 1000km/h has 5000km range, 2 ton payload and other sources say above 1,400km/s speeds, 25 tons, 6000km range and 6 ton payload.

Boeing introduces the phantom ray drone, it has flown said to be stealth strike drone, turns out it is used to refuel instead.

X-47B gets cancelled.

Fanboys hype up the RQ-180(probably think its a stealth strike drone) the range and other source suggest that it is only used for reconnaissance.

This is pretty amusing everyone laughed that the Russians purchasing Israeli drones and the fact they do not have any heavy drones suggest they are far behind until the Okhotnik which has no size comparison to match it being introduced as a huge stealth strike drone starts flying everyone that laughed has become silent.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/rq-180-aviation-week-space-technologys-alleged-new-uas.20900/page-3#post-367376

"At the same time, Air Force funds were transferred into a classified high-altitude, long-endurance (HALE) program which, it is believed, led to a competition between Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman. Northrop also publicly discussed a range of longer-winged X-47C configurations around this time. The largest of these was a 172-ft.-span design with two engines derived from General Electric’s CF34 and capable of carrying a 10,000-lb. weapon load."

I do hope the Okhotnik on what Putin suggested to Erdogan does really have a 6 ton payload. The only challenge the Russians have to face is to address the exhausts on the back X-47A and China's sharp sword drone had the same issue but got addressed later.

The only thing the Russians can claim 1st right now is that they are testing out weapons for their stealth strike drone while no other country with a similar role for their stealth strike drone(phantom ray drone, X-47B, bae Taranis, neuron, sharp sword drone) has yet done this.

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