Special mission nuclear submarines

http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/525842.html

special submarines for seismic testing-probably for underwater oil and gas deposit research in the arctic....
possible military application as part of russian coastal naval sosus network-- mobile gap filler , submarine awacs.

Rmf wrote:special submarines for seismic testing-probably for underwater oil and gas deposit research in the arctic....
possible military application as part of russian coastal naval sosus network-- mobile gap filler , submarine awacs.

Pls, check the pictures.

For underwater oil deposit seismic bla bla you don't need micro nuclear reactor for power supply, underwater cranes and heavy duty transport equipment.

The modified oscar is NOT an "awacs" , the normal submarines has that capability.

That is a heavy duty transport equipment.


The small cranes transport the nuclear power plant to site, and the oscar carry the sonar/cables to site, and housing the personnel .


And all of this required only for places, that has all year long ice cover.
For all other places they can use surface ships to do the lifting / installation.


Means that this kind of equipment can be seen under the north pole, on the lomonosov ridge.


This is the reason why russia doesn't has maritime patrol aircraft - they don't need them.


This system is way superior compared to an aircraft based system.


The kilos are the fist of the system, they carry the torpedoes to the launch zone, and they receiving the targetingdate from it.

Big_Gazza wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/525842.html

Is that model purported to be the unfinished Pr.949A Belgorod?  Rather than a carrier for "Status-6" she is intended for arctic basin deep seismic survey?

On second look, the tower is the wrong shape and has a set of planes, and the stern is completely different...  I guess its just a concept?

It's not a concept, it is model of BS-64 Podmoskovye, modified​ Delta class. It is undergoing trials right now.

There are three commissioned underwater sonar installation platform.
BS-136 and BS-64 and AS-12 .
http://www.deepstorm.ru/DeepStorm.files/45-92/nbrs/667BDR/K-129/K-129.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_submarine_BS-64
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_submarine_Losharik


The Belgorod will be the fourth underwater sonar installation platform.


On the pictures it carry the underwater nuclear battery, and underwater mini submarine.
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/april-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/5153-russian-navy-to-commission-project-09852-belgorod-special-nuclear-powered-submarine-in-2018.html
http://www.hisutton.com/Spy%20Subs%20-Project%2009852%20Belgorod.html

Pr.1910 Kashalot(Uniform) deep diving submarine. AS-15 post overhaul at Zvezdochka. 1 of 2 in service

More satellite images of Russian navy special subs


BS-64 (ex Delta IV) and Bs-136 (ex Delta III)



two 'covered' floating docks for storing and servicing special purpose subs.





Losharik sub.





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Losharik is going in to repair
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6760672

“This fall, Losharik will be towed for repairs to Zvezdochka,” the agency’s interlocutor said. He specified that “at the first stage, water will be pumped out of the device and the titanium case and internal premises will be defective, after which a technical project will be drawn up for repair work and recovery. "
...
The TASS interlocutor reported that, according to preliminary estimates, the systems of the deep-sea vehicle suffered significant damage. "We can say that the fire is seriously damaged and radio-electronic equipment, automation, acoustic and navigation equipment, life support systems are to be replaced," he said. It is not yet clear how much the titanium case of the station was damaged.

As another source in the military-industrial complex told TASS, new titanium parts of the hull will be manufactured at Sevmash to replace those damaged by fire.

The thing is quite old. Wouldn´t it be cheaper to build a new one?

Titanium ages really well, so apart from fire damage, it should be OK... the guts of most submarines has to be replaced over time anyway... this is a sub that can withstand 6km of water on top of it... that is eye popping... literally...

It also had been through a recent modernisation apparently including the fatal Lithium-ion batteries...

Big_Gazza wrote:

Hole wrote:The thing is quite old. Wouldn´t it be cheaper to build a new one?

Laid down in 1988.  It's certainly not old.

30 years is quite old for a sub.

Isos wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:

Hole wrote:The thing is quite old. Wouldn´t it be cheaper to build a new one?

Laid down in 1988.  It's certainly not old.

30 years is quite old for a sub.

Laid down in 1988 yes but not launched until 2003. Making it one of the more modern submarines in the Russian navy.

Lets be clear, it is a pretty impressive sub with unusual capabilities... they have every reason to want to keep using it if possible.

GarryB wrote:Lets be clear, it is a pretty impressive sub with unusual capabilities... they have every reason to want to keep using it if possible.

It is also made of titanium. Russia isn't in hurry to restart production of titanium hulls any day soon.

And the titanium hull will hold basicly forever.

Just look at the K-222 submarine after been out of service for more then 20 years.
The picture was taken just before scrapping started, to bad it had a reactor that was to expensive to be repaired.

walle83 wrote:And the titanium hull will hold basicly forever.

Just look at the K-222 submarine after been out of service for more then 20 years.
The picture was taken just before scrapping started, to bad it had a reactor that was to expensive to be repaired.

As I wrote in the other thread (nuclear submarines thread), I just hope that they will modernise at least the two 945 barracuda and later the two 945A (condor). Afterall, Russia recently recovered the capabilities to build large titanium components for the tu-160, it would be good if they restore their capabilities to work with titanium hulls, at least in one shipyard (e.g. sevmash or krasnoe sormovo).

Last year the head of zvezdochka ship repair yard said that it was not worth to upgrade and put back in service the barracuda because it is expensive to work and operate on subs with titanium hulls, but probably it is because his shipyard does not possesses the required capabilities (e.g including, but not only, welding in vacuum, etc).

It is also made of titanium. Russia isn't in hurry to restart production of titanium hulls any day soon.

They have lots of problems wielding Titanium... it needs to be done in a near vacuum environment... the reason they haven't made Blackjacks till now is because the forge where the huge central box structure was made is now in the Ukraine, so to put them back in to production they needed to build an enormous forge that can be sealed to create a near vacuum to wield the Titanium structure in enormous pieces.

The structure for the Loshark is basically a series of titanium spheres wielded together because a sphere is about the strongest shape you can make, but the joints would be critical at such depths so they would really need to get it right...

With the K-222 shame they couldn't have removed the old reactor and used the vessel for tests with electric drives and new reactor types.

With electric propulsion you don't need to have a conventional placement of propellers, engines, drive shafts and gears etc... you can pretty much put the reactor anywhere you want with electric cables distributing power to the various parts of the ship including the electric motors directly attached to the propellers.

It means no need for heavy drive shafts between the gears and the propeller, and no need for the propulsion system to be attached to the gears... so you could mount it almost anywhere on a vessel... in fact you could put it somewhere where it could be dropped in and lifted out like a giant battery.

When new power plants are developed they can be made to fit a standard size so after ten years of service you could lift out the old reactor and pop in a new model that perhaps generates more power for longer periods... the old reactor could be taken somewhere safe and refuelled and put into a new vessel that does not need as much power as possible, or it could be incorporated into a land or ship based electric power station somewhere out in the middle of nowhere...

The new breeder reactor design eliminates nuclear waste the old pressurised water reactors create, and could be used to create more fuel during normal operation...

New modern ships have azimov pods that can rotate 360 degrees for manouvering... a modern sub could possibly be fitted with two... one at the rear like a conventional propeller fixed pointing directly back and one half way down the sub underneath that can rotate 360 degrees.... the advantage is that you can optimise them for forward thrust because you would never need to use them in reverse... you could just rotate them 180 degrees. Of course for the rear fixed propeller being an electric motor it is easy to simple reverse the poles and make it run backwards.... compared with most diesels that need to be stopped before you can run them backwards.

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:....
As I wrote in the other thread (nuclear submarines thread), I just hope that they will modernise at least the two 945 barracuda and later the two 945A (condor). Afterall, Russia recently recovered the capabilities to build large titanium components for the tu-160, it would be good if they restore their capabilities to work with titanium hulls, at least in one shipyard (e.g. sevmash or krasnoe sormovo).
.....

This submarines are slated for scraping, they are not coming back

● Beluga whale pens moved
● BS-64 returned to Olenya Guba less than a week after Losharik Accident

Flag Fresh satellite imagery recently made available on Google Earth confirms that Russian Navy’s Beluga Whale pens have been moved to a stable position near the entrance of the Olenya Guba (Оленья Губа) secret submarine base near the Kola Peninsula. These pens were most likely involved in the whale which turned up in Norway in May. Additionally they confirm that the special mission host submarine BS-64 Podmoskovye returned to its home base of Olenya Guba very shortly after the Losharik submarine accident on July 1st.

Olenya Guba, meaning Deer Bay, is the main submarine operating base for the 29th Separate Brigade of submarines of the Northern Fleet. This unit operate a range of Special Mission submarines (read ‘Spy submarines’) for GUGI (Main Directorate Deep Sea Research). Other GUGI assets including the enigmatic and controversial Yantar ‘hydrographic ‘research ship’ are also based there.

The two beluga whale pens which were taken to Olenya Guba earlier this year have been moved from the piers near the submarine hangar to a new position near the entrance to the bay.





http://www.hisutton.com/Ru_Olenya_Guba.html

PapaDragon wrote:

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:....
As I wrote in the other thread (nuclear submarines thread), I just hope that they will modernise at least the two 945 barracuda and later the two 945A (condor). Afterall, Russia recently recovered the capabilities to build large titanium components for the tu-160, it would be good if they restore their capabilities to work with titanium hulls, at least in one shipyard (e.g. sevmash or krasnoe sormovo).
.....

This submarines are slated for scraping, they are not coming back

where has it been said?

Nowhere it is mentioned that they are going to scrap them (Karp and Kostroma). They are still in reserve and their status is uncertain, however there is no hurry in scraping them.


The director of ship repair center "zvezdochka" has said in july 2018 that he does not believe it is worth to repair them, but it is not his call.

One year before, in April 2017, an unnamed source from the military-industrial complex (actually it could be the same director of zvezdochka, for the info we have), said that the resumption of work to modernise the Karp submarine (project 945 Barracuda) was unlikely.

Apparently the work stopped around 2015 and was limited to unloading the nuclear fuel.

https://flotprom.ru/2017/257307/

Such source even suggest it would make more sense to put back into service the 971 Shuka class (NATO reporting name: Akula in reserve, than the Barracuda.

While I agree on the modernisation on the 971 as sensible, I tend to believe that it is also selfish, since submarines of the 971 project have a steel hull, and so Zvezdochka shipyard does not have problems in upgrading them.

It was wrong from the Russian Navy to assign the modernisation of submarines with Titanium hulls to zvezdochka ship repairing yard, and it was wrong from them to accept the contract, when they knew that they did not possess the required capabilities.

Of course they prefer that the ministry of defense or the navy change their mind on the modernisation, otherwise they (the shipyard management) have to admit that is their own fault and pay big penalties for failing the contract and maybe also face criminal charges.

As I wrote in another post, all of this reminds me the fable of "the Fox and the grapes" : they say that those submarines are useless and too expensive just because they are not able to work on them.

This is like the ukrainians and the last of the slava class cruiser...

Russian 'special mission submarine' BS-64 with deep diving minisub on back. This minisub is docked right above where Losharik docks under the keel.








More photos of BS-64




http://www.hisutton.com/Russian_Submarine_BS-64_Payload.html