Universal landing ships for Russian Navy

KRET plans to create an electronic warfare system for the new ship
Construction is expected to begin in Russia in 2018 for a large universal landing ship and helicopter carrier. Captain First Rank Vladimir Tryapichnikov, the head of ship construction for the Russian Navy, discussed this on the radio station Russian News Service.

"Of course, currently the ship, a large universal amphibious assault ship, is being designed by various organizations. We already have some achievements, as we have determined its appearance. Its realization will begin in 2018, when we start construction of the amphibious assault ship,” he said.

As previously reported by the Russian Ministry of Defense, the first large landing ship (BDK) is expected to be built by 2020. The new generation of BDK ships are expected to have a displacement of about 16,000 tons.

KRET is ready to develop new electronic warfare defense systems for the future Russian helicopter-carrier landing ships.

KRET enterprises currently supply electronic warfare systems for all types of Navy ships, from boats to frigates. The equipment developed by KRET can be found on all the large surface ships of the Russian Navy, including the Moskva missile cruiser (Project 1164), Peter the Great heavy nuclear missile cruiser (Project 1144), and the Admiral Kuznetsov heavy aircraft-carrier cruiser (Project 11435). In addition, KRET enterprises have also helped equip the Talwar frigates built for the Indian Navy with electronic warfare systems.

GarryB wrote:Russia is moving from very low to very high in this race.

Starting with corvette sized vessels the new Russian corvettes with UKSK launchers can engage ships and subs and land based targets with large accurate missiles

No cold war era corvette on any side has that capacity.

Larger vessels are equipped with more launch tubes and better sensors and other supporting equipment.

Once they have dealt with the problem of Ukrainian engines and propulsion systems they will be able to produce vessels much faster... the first vessels in a series always take the longest as everything needs to be thoroughly tested... from then on production should pick up dramatically.

sepheronx wrote:2017 or 2018

sepheronx wrote:

par far wrote:

sepheronx wrote:2017 or 2018

That long?

Yeah.  It isnt as simple as just starting production.  While some components of previous engines were Russian, they now have to make all components Russian.  I have seen pictures of an example engine that is modular for ships. Meaning bigger model of the same type and design meant much bigger output, etc.  It was quite impressive.  And it was a test from last year.  But it takes time to set up manufacturing of all the components and such.

In mean time, they can always purchase Chinese as an example.

PapaDragon wrote:
^^^ Those are two different boats and upper one will not be built, it is old Soviet project, new one will be similar in size but different design.

PapaDragon wrote:

Militarov wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
^^^ Those are two different boats and upper one will not be built, it is old Soviet project, new one will be similar in size but different design.

They look like two totally different ships, however that chart was supplied with that model, so... i am just reading what i see and i am very  confused. Lavina project is supposed to be what we are looking at.

Lavina is similar to the top one but this one is not it. (Mistral look alike)

Found the pic:

PapaDragon wrote:

......Lavina will have a full load displacement of 24,000 tons, as opposed to 21,300 tons for the French-designed ship. It will also have a maximum speed of 22 knots, compared to 19 knots for the Mistrals, two of which were ordered by the Russian Navy four years ago.

Just like the Mistral, Lavina will house 16 helicopters, about 50 armored vehicles (about 10 fewer than the French amphibious assault vessel) and a potential six smaller boats, as opposed to the Mistrals' four. All figures are likely rough estimates, with numerous variables, and it is unclear how advanced the Lavina blueprints are at the current stage.......

https://www.rt.com/news/268504-mistral-replacement-avalance-lavina/

Previous generation Russian/Soviet naval vessels were custom made for a very specific role.

The Sovremmeny Destroyer was designed specifically to destroy AEGIS class cruisers... it carried 8 Moskit anti ship missiles that flew below 7m above the wave tops, so in the 1980s, when the standard SAM on the AEGIS class cruisers was the Standard-2 SAM which could not hit targets below 7m above the wave tops the only defence the American vessel had was its Phalanx CIWS. The Phalanx CIWS is a 20mm calibre gatling gun firing rounds at about 4,500rpm that are sub calibre rounds... in other words the actual projectile is 12.7mm calibre. Its effective range was from 500m to 1,800m... an incoming 4.5 ton missile with a warhead protected by titanium armour plate angled to deflect incoming rounds would be in that danger zone for a few seconds only... changes are the warhead would not be hit so even if the missile what "shot down" it would still hit the ship and explode.

In other words it was ideal for the job it was designed for.

A similar size and developed at a similar time, the Udaloy had completely different propulsion and completely different armament and was optimised for use against Subs.

GarryB wrote:

is multi-role always a good thing ?

Having ships weak in some areas and strong in others means your ships are only effective in groups where every capability is present.

With larger ships there is the capacity to have more capabilities even if they will normally operate with smaller ships that can add capabilities too.

I'm not sure in a big war I think purpose built ships but more of them are probably better as you can afford to lose a few without it significantly depleting your resources and striking power
Plus less fatigue on the crews and ships if they are doing all kinds of missions in wartime

Having specialised ships means if you take a few losses you might find yourself vulnerable.

Imagine if all your anti sub ships are taken out with anti ship missiles... suddenly your fleet is very vulnerable to enemy subs...

Also with dedicated role ships how many of each do you need? Remember these need to be spread around several fleets and different fleets have different needs.

Having a ship that has sensors to detect targets and threats in the air on the water and under the water and weapons to deal with such threats and targets means you can just build one or two types in large numbers and arm them according to the roles they will be needed for.

multi-role appeal is more in smaller localized brief conflicts

For any conflicts your vessels will need to perform all sorts of roles... a group of four ships that are able to perform any role needed when needed is more useful than a group of 4 ships with two anti sub, and two anti surface vessel.

Imagine two Sovremmenys and two Udaloys... each has decent air defence, but the Udaloy has 8 anti sub missiles that can be used against surface ships, while the Sovremmenys have 8 anti ship missiles and a decent medium range SAM.

Now Imagine 4 Gorshkov Frigates each with anti sub and anti ship and land attack Klubs and Kalibrs... 16 missiles each.  

8 Subsonic torpedo delivery missile SS-N-14 Silex per Udaloy for a total of 16 missiles from two boats. 8 Supersonic Moskits SS-N-22 per Sov for a total of 16 missiles on the two boats.

In comparison the 4 Gorshkov frigates can EACH carry 8 rocket powered mach 2.5 ballistic rockets able to deliver a torpedo payload up to 40km from the ship in seconds AND 8 supersonic Onyx anti ship missiles, for a total of 64 missiles from the four Frigates... that is double the main armament fire power of the group of 4 Destroyers.

More importantly they will have Sigma, a command, control, communications network system that allows them to share data and get other data from other platforms in the area including subs, ships, aircraft, and satellites and land stations.

RF Ministry of Defense: The project of GPV-2025 included the construction of a helicopter carrier
May 25, 2017 at 17:19 Theme: Industry

The construction of helicopter carriers, similar to the "Mistrals", is incorporated in the state program of armaments of the Russian Federation for 2018-2025. On Thursday, May 25, Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov said.

"The construction of helicopter carriers takes an average of four years, so I think that somewhere after 2022 you can expect a ship of this type," Yuri Borisov said, answering a question from RIA Novosti.