Revisionism about WWII and USSR

Monday, August 31, 2009
MOSCOW: Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on Sunday criticised Ukraine and the Baltic states for glorifying “Nazi accomplices”, speaking ahead of the 70th anniversary of the start of World War II.

“We are seeing some astounding trends,” Medvedev said in an interview with the Rossia state television channel.

“Governments in the Baltic states and even Ukraine are now essentially pronouncing former Nazi accomplices to be their national heroes who fought for the liberation of their nations.

“Of course, everyone knows what really happened, but everyone looks down in shame, so as to avoid souring relations.”

Russia has repeatedly criticised former Soviet republics Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania for seeking to rehabilitate anti-Communist groups that in some cases collaborated with the Nazis and committed atrocities against Jews. Medvedev also lashed out at a resolution passed in July by the parliamentary assembly of the Organisation for Co-operation and Security in Europe (OSCE) which condemned both Nazism and Stalinism.

Medvedev said the resolution had pronounced Nazi Germany and Stalin’s Soviet Union “to be equally responsible for World War II” and said: “Now this, quite frankly, is a flat-out lie.”

He appeared to be referring to the resolution’s assertion that both regimes brought about genocide and war crimes, and its call to establish a Europe-wide memorial day on August 23, the anniversary of a notorious Nazi-Soviet pact.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=195751

*pshaa*, this is nothing more then a d**k sucking towards western nations and in any attempt to throw something in Russia's face saying "they are evil and we hate you" (as they cry and run away in fear). But what they fail to realize, is at a point, Ukraine helped fight against the nazis, Russia and all other Nations part of the USSR (Soviet union). What is troublesome in reality, is that all these countries fail to realize they where too part of the problem they call the Soviet Union, but passed all the blame to Russia and never bothered looking at each other. The worst ones in this whole debacle that got this all stirred up, is Poland.

We take alot of flak for the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, is just ironic these nations criticise us for that when they embody Nazi criminals.

Is this guy a Pro-Russian or Pro-Communist?

In a youtube video of Russian National Anthem he commented the next:

"A poor country that wanted peace from her very existence was forced into war and war-type situations from her birth (Western intervention in the Russian revolution; British, German, and Italian sabotage of the Popular Front alliance between France, the USSR, Czechoslovakia, and Spain; British and French attempts to start a war between the Soviet Union and Germany; the invasion of the Soviet Union by the Germans and other Fascists; the agitation of a Cold War by the United States; etc.).

The capitalist countries should be ashamed of themselves..."

after that commented a polish guy:

"The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, you have heard. Your peace-loving country invaded Poland, which defended itself against animals from Germany. Later Soviet hippies occupying defenseless baltic countries-Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Finladnia. Even the bandit Hiter was a boy scout compared to the Soviet."

Then the first guy answered with this:

"The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact only sought to establish a Soviet sphere of interest in certain areas in Eastern Europe (basically telling the Germans what they couldn't invade or influence).  In the case of Poland, the Soviets wanted to create a Polish state in the land east of the Curzon (not to annex it), but when your president fled to Romania on September 15th, the agreement between Germany and Russia was void (the Polish government no longer existed, so the Polish state did not have representation and thus there was no one for Hitler to make peace with).  If your president didn't flee, he could have left to Brest-Litovsk, Grodno, Lviv, and declared a Polish state (with military protection from the Soviet Union, but instead he decided to flee to neutral Romania - which meant he resigned from his position since under international laws you cannot remain president, in the case of war, if you flee to a neutral country.  He was forced to stay in Romania until the end of the war).  Had the Soviets not invaded immediately (September 17th), the Germans could have seized all lands east of the Curzon (which were technically Ukrainian and Belorussian lands) and made geographic claims against the Ukrainian and Belorussian SSRs.

The Baltic states all had political elections where the Communist parties won and all decided to join the Soviet Union.  As for Finland, they declined two pacts of mutual assistance with the SU, and they fired mortar shells into Soviet territory, which killed Red army soldiers, sparking a war."

And for my knowledge of the history the Mainila Shots or "Mainilan Laukaukset" was ordered by Stavka.

I apologise if this offends someone, i just want someone tell me is this guy a Pro-Russian or Pro-Communist?

Here is the link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLjSu9U1lEU

Jyshky wrote:Is this guy a Pro-Russian or Pro-Communist?

Isn`t that simplification?

Fact is UK and France hoped that Germany under Hitler would turn only eastward in expansion. Munich agreement was all about that , they left on purpose entire Central Europe into the influence zone of Third Reich.

Stalin knew USSR is not ready for war so he signed the M-R Pact practically outmaneuvering UK and France securing Germany first moves will be into direction of Western .

Stalin , of course could not have seen that German victories and advance will be at light speed , putting Germany on original track , building Empire in the East.

Instead thinking in these categories , the entire historical moment in that part of European history should be viewed as extreme shortsightedness , taking gambles with unfavourably high risks by the political elites that left Europe in ruins.

I'm so tired of hearing the capitalist lie that "the commies helped hitler"   The soviet "invasion" of Poland was the returning of belorussian and Ukrainian land originally occupied and ravaged by Poland in 1920 due to its micro imperialistic ambitions. Also the soviets entered there after the polish government fleed which made it cease to exist. The real Poland was occupied by the germans and all of it was returned after WW2.

Yes, the Stalinist regime was brutal and looking out for its own interests.

So what, so was everyone. Poland nibbled off parts of Czechoslovakia, so much for "peace loving".

KomissarBojanchev wrote:I'm so tired of hearing the capitalist lie that "the commies helped hitler"   The soviet "invasion" of Poland was the returning of belorussian  and Ukrainian land originally occupied and ravaged by Poland in 1920 due to its micro imperialistic ambitions. Also the soviets entered there after the polish government fleed which made it cease to exist. The real Poland was occupied by the germans and all of it was returned after WW2.

Vilnius/Wilno at that time was a Polish city , taken by USSR and given to Lithuania. Historically Lithuanian but Polonized over time , it`s part of territory that can be considered as theft from Poland.

The Baltic states all had political elections where the Communist parties won and all decided to join the Soviet Union. As for Finland, they declined two pacts of mutual assistance with the SU, and they fired mortar shells into Soviet territory, which killed Red army soldiers, sparking a war

BS. He must be deluded, how come authoritarian government we had in Baltics could even allow elections when communist parties where banned and shunned. We had idiotic military junta, but still 100 better than what we got from traitors under Stalins boot. It was ULTIMATUM and ten OCCUPATION.
We probably deserved what was coming, I mean second occupation, but can't say same thing about Latvians or Estonians, they are truly victims.
And yeah Finland attacking SU is like Paris Hilton attacking Brock Lesnar. Sheesh.

GarryB wrote:The non aggression pact between Germany and the Soviet Union... read the words carefully... NON AGGRESSION PACT.

An agreement not to step on each others toes.

Hardly the basis for a friendship or alliance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Boundary_and_Friendship_Treaty

Werewolf wrote:Yes, sure wikishmedia the worst source when it comes to history or military matters.

Self created articles.

Non Aggression Pact means, i don't smack your skull against the wall when you rob every neighbour in my neighbourhood, except me.

Well maybe You right, cause it only leads to couple sources and it doesn't look like a real deal, but so called fake friendship was there. Wasn't same like with Japanese. Both sides pretended they will not stab each other in the back. Cooperation after 35 was minimal and ideologies where alraedy clashing in propaganda battle. It happened to be Germans who broke their word it first. Soviet union was comparably weak at that time, would Hitler give Stalin couple years to reform there would be no Blitzkrieg or it would be going his way.

On the subject, you know what REALLY grinds my gears? Like seriously rustles them?

When Poles say USSR was worse than Germany. Makes me wish the Red Army stopped at the borders of Poland during the war. Thousands of Soviet troops would have lived...oh and the Germans would have finished off what was left of Poland, but hey, they are better than USSR right . I guess then there wouldn't be any whiny Poles to cry about the USSR today, but I am okay with that.

No but seriously. Stalin was a monster, and the Soviet regime was terrible. The Soviet people suffered the most from it while we are at it.
But holy shit, everytime I hear "Soviets just as bad as Germans!" I think to myself....is there a retard gene in Eastern Europe?


Oh and, wahhh teh rapes wahhhh.
Germany is lucky to exist AT ALL after what they pulled.

flamming_python wrote:

Regular wrote:Latvians or Estonians, they are truly victims.

Sure buddy, heard that one before.

Meanwhile when ze Germans arrived to liberate the oppressed Baltic peoples; they entered villages to be greeted with signs along the lines of 'already Juden-free' and so on, the locals were keen to get the dirty business over and done with ahead of the arrival of the German columns - sparing those all the hard work. How nice  

I'm pretty sure it was Lithuanians, not them who started killing jews before Germans started organizing it, but it's bit more complicated  
There is nothing I can say to defend this and I hate that it's taboo in my country. 
Just some things that would paint this terrible picture-
Germans where actually in Lithuania when first pogrom started and they had their blessing on it and SS covert groups helped with logistics as well. There where so many radical militias, fascists, nationalists running loose. Before that they where kept at check by moderate nationalist Smetona and later by Soviets. 
First killings where done by rogue band of Algirdas Klimaitis. After the war he left for Germany and never been persecuted. He said that he was forced by . He died happily on 1988. 
Population was anti Jewish but not to that point where such things would be acceptable. Jews where here for ages and pretty much was one of the most successful people, in business and culture alike. Most of them lived in the cities. Country side rednecks where easy to find, economy was non existed and scapegoat was here. 
But then again killings and round ups where done by local militias and not village folks with pitchforks.
Transitional government deformed most of rogue bands and merged them to battalions, but that didn't stop them from killing and later even institutions where involved in pogroms.
Unknowingly to those local nazis, Germans needed this land for Germanisation, after war most of those "heroes" would have made into fertilizer. 
Genocide in 3 years did more damage to our country than over 10 years of Soviet deportations.

TR1 wrote:On the subject, you know what REALLY grinds my gears? Like seriously rustles them?

When Poles say USSR was worse than Germany. Makes me wish the Red Army stopped at the borders of Poland during the war. Thousands of Soviet troops would have lived...oh and the Germans would have finished off what was left of Poland, but hey, they are better than USSR right . I guess then there wouldn't be any whiny Poles to cry about the USSR today, but I am okay with that.

No but seriously. Stalin was a monster, and the Soviet regime was terrible. The Soviet people suffered the most from it while we are at it.
But holy shit, everytime I hear "Soviets just as bad as Germans!" I think to myself....is there a retard gene in Eastern Europe?


Oh and, wahhh teh rapes wahhhh.
Germany is lucky to exist AT ALL after what they pulled.

Well under Stalin it wasn't all pies and cakes. NKVD was bad as cancer. From personal story, my grand grand father said that Russian soldiers who went westwards to Germany warned about them.  
But then again, how long did Germans stay and how long Soviets? Maybe it's true, Soviet occupation for 50 years was as bad as 5 years of Nazi occupation. 
And yeah rape was serious problem, but it's not like Soviets didn't deal with that, You could get court martial if You would steal a bike or carpet and soldiers where executed because of rapes as well, especially in Berlin. Armija Krajowa on their nationalistic safari weren't acting like virgin angels in Vilnius as well. Not to mention Nazi friends from Hungry and Romania and their crimes in Russia.
If You they blame someone they should prepare to take the blame as well. But to be a victim is more comforting.

higurashihougi wrote:Maih oh Maih

http://rt.com/news/253753-europeans-wwii-victory-poll/

http://sputniknews.com/society/20150428/1021462315.html

Only 13 percent of Europeans think that the Soviet Army played a key role in liberating Europe from Nazism during World War II, according to ICM Research poll conducted exclusively for Sputnik news agency.

The largest group of respondents, 43 percent, said that the United States Army played the main role in liberating Europe during WWII       . Sixty-one percent of French citizens agreed, comparing with only 16 percent of British residents.

Over 50 percent of Germans and over 61 percent of French citizens believe their ancestors were liberated by the Americans         . Nearly fifty percent of Britons think British forces actually played the key role in ending the Second World War. Only 8 percent of respondents in France and 13 percent in Germany credited the Soviet Army for the victory.

The irony is that the average French citizen circa 1945 recognized the Soviets as the most responsible of winning the European front. So the people who actually witnessed WW2 recognized the obvious, while the ones who didn't obviously endorse the blatant historical revisionism.

BTW this fact alone derails the so-called 'Independent from America' mindset myth people claimed the French populous had. France stopped being independent when DeGaul left power.

Werewolf wrote:Hollywood garbage distorted the view along with this bullshit propaganda about Land-lease portraying it like it was the americans that let the soviets survive, while completley ignoring the fact that US was supplying nazi germany from 30's up to 45, through out the war.

Soviet Union was undoubtly the main and the only resulter of european theatre. 80% of Wehrmacht was destroyed on eastern front, while US entering european theatre in mid 1944 when the war was already decided.

But don't bother our western countries are low off interest about history and get educated by hollywood, there is a quite astonishing big portion of people who believe US won not only WW2 but also Korea and Vietnam, brought democracy to Middle East which now live in a flowering, peaceful country and waving US flags. With such bullshiting stories from the West with such nutheads trying to rewrite history like Yatzenjewk, where Soviet Union has aggressively attacked Germany and occupied other countries. This western jew puppet is actually saying exactly this bullshit, spineless unkosher insect.

Great thread with good videos, and good information, if you could skip the "Yatzenjewk", and "This western jew puppet", etc.

Persons do not do what they do, nor say what they say, because of ethnicity, but it comes out of their heart. Whether good or evil.

I have Jewish ethnicity. What you do, when you do this, is no different from a person in the USA hating Jews or blacks, or American Indians, based on their ethnicity, or politics, or religion. imho.