Type 075 landing helicopter dock (LHD)

Isos wrote:6 different carriers. That will be a mess to use.

More like 3 really. 001 and 002 are basicly the same type with minor changes.
Type 003 will be single class with several systems being tested before moving on to CVN.
Type 004 to 006 would probably be one class with small updates between each ship.

Wouldn't matter if each carrier was unique... the crews don't swap between them every other week... their crews will train and learn on one ship and there will be several crews for each carrier.

Most of the systems will not be that different and it will take time to learn the layout of the ship anyway.

One presumes each different carrier will be based on what was learned from other carriers they had, so their new build ones should be better suited, but who knows.

For different roles each might be more or less suited to a particular job... it is really a question of the upper level Navy planning staff understanding the features and capabilities and limitations of all their ships and how to use them well that will matter.

That means the carrier groups won't have the same strenght or tactics used. If they loose one and replace it with another one that won't be an effective carrier group.

Imagine replacing a gorshkov frigate with a steregoushchy corvette.

Crews can learn from each other and master the carrier perfectly if they have just one class. Wheb one is at tge shipyard its crew can't train on an other clasd too.

In terms of maintainence it will be also more difficult.

Isos wrote:That means the carrier groups won't have the same strenght or tactics used. If they loose one and replace it with another one that won't be an effective carrier group.

Imagine replacing a gorshkov frigate with a steregoushchy corvette.

Crews can learn from each other and master the carrier perfectly if they have just one class. Wheb one is at tge shipyard its crew can't train on an other clasd too.

In terms of maintainence it will be also more difficult.

Well it is what it is. They started thier way from the Kuznetsov class and are taking new steps with very ship.
By 2040-2045 the first 2 ships should have been replaced and the carrier fleet should look more like the US navy.

Carriers are quite outdated today even against poor countries which have chances to destroy them.

In 2040 it will be worst. I doubt Chiba will build more than 5 of them.

Isos wrote:Carriers are quite outdated today even against poor countries which have chances to destroy them.

In 2040 it will be worst. I doubt Chiba will build more than 5 of them.

Dont see many poor countries around the world sinking us carriers, or even trying, today.

The future will tell.

walle83 wrote:

Isos wrote:Carriers are quite outdated today even against poor countries which have chances to destroy them.

In 2040 it will be worst. I doubt Chiba will build more than 5 of them.

Dont see many poor countries around the world sinking us carriers, or even trying, today.

The future will tell.

Hezbollah used a missile to strike an israeli ship. Houti used also anti ship missiles. Iran is producibg BM for use against carriers. Drones are heavily produced and use and could be used to damage a carrier.

It's just a matter of time before they get sold everywhere.

That means the carrier groups won't have the same strenght or tactics used. If they loose one and replace it with another one that won't be an effective carrier group.

Imagine replacing a gorshkov frigate with a steregoushchy corvette.

Crews can learn from each other and master the carrier perfectly if they have just one class. Wheb one is at tge shipyard its crew can't train on an other clasd too.

In terms of maintainence it will be also more difficult.

You could turn that around and say if all their carriers are identical then a design flaw will effect all ships in combat.

If they have a problem with a stronger newer carrier and have to replace it with an older one.... they are China... not the self appointed world police... if their best carrier can't make it they can send two or even three of their slightly less good carriers to take its place...

It really depends on the situation, and having different carriers makes them more flexible... replacing a frigate with a corvette might actually be a good idea for some missions and roles, but if it isn't as good then send two or three corvettes for the job...

By 2040-2045 the first 2 ships should have been replaced and the carrier fleet should look more like the US navy.

I hope not. I hope it is much better organised and equipped...

Carriers are quite outdated today even against poor countries which have chances to destroy them.

Carriers provide capacity and capability that not having carriers can't match. If they are outdated then why do any countries have them?

Why do countries buy tanks... anti tank missiles have been around for a very long time and some of them are excellent... in fact a 500kg laser guided bomb will be stopped by no APS or ERA or composite armour so why aren't tanks obsolete? Most air forces have LGBs.

The fundamental problem is that to support troops an armoured vehicle with a big gun is useful, whether it is destroying bunkers or buildings with direct heavy calibre fire or the equivalent big gun armed enemy vehicle. So you get a vehicle chassis and you put a big gun in a turret... it needs armour... which makes it heavier than an BTR or BMP so it needs a bigger engine... and so you look at what new magical vehicle you have created to replace the tank and you have.... a tank.

At sea the problems are that the enemy can sneak attack you because if all your ships blase away with radar looking for low flying threats the enemy can quickly determine your location and set up an ambush while keeping out of your line of sight... without aircraft and limited to helicopter based AEW the enemy attack will get rather close to you before you spot what is happening leaving you less time to defend yourself and making you much more vulnerable to smaller weaker countries.

A decent sized aircraft carrier with proper AWACS platforms and decent fighters able to operate over useful distances are much safer and much more aware of the waters and air space and undersea space around them and therefore less likely to be surprised and defeated.

By one missile or by 1,000.

The current difference is that Kinzhal is based on the Iskander and is designed to evade enemy air defences and fly at enormous speeds to hit a target... even just launching one has a reasonable chance of getting through modern US carrier air defences and getting a hit which would cripple most ships.... not sink them necessarily but they will be limping back to base and not continuing operations.

For the Americans their Harpoons and Tomahawks are only really dangerous if they are not seen... which is why they are pretending Russia does not need an aircraft carrier at all because they are obsolete. A modern new Russian surface action group with new design ships will be very well protected from enemy missile and aircraft attack, but having a carrier just adds depth and capability to those defences and means greater sight and reach.... for the US to defeat a Russian group of ships they will be planning to launch thousands of missiles, which means large numbers of platforms needing to coordinate their launches and positions to ensure it all arrives at once... having aircraft and being able to roam around the battle space at perhaps mach 1.5 means a Russian or Chinese carrier group is more likely to detect this mass of missiles in flight and the earlier they are detected the sooner you can start picking them off.

24 aircraft does not sound like a lot but if you can have 2-4 flying around all the time and can send 24 fighters towards a large mass of incoming Tomahawks and perhaps another 24 in other directions looking for stealthy missiles on a sneak attack from a flank or the rear... those 24 planes can shoot down a significant number of incoming missiles with missiles and cannon fire, and can also monitor the remaining missiles so ship based long range SAMs can be launched early to start taking down numbers of missiles too.

Hezbollah used a missile to strike an israeli ship. Houti used also anti ship missiles. Iran is producibg BM for use against carriers. Drones are heavily produced and use and could be used to damage a carrier.

It's just a matter of time before they get sold everywhere.

Such threats could sink any type of ship, but a carrier could be used to bring your own drones and missiles in large numbers too.... the point is that when it comes to drones and anti ship missiles the most vulnerable ship is not the biggest... the most vulnerable ship is the smallest ship operating on its own without support and unaware it is even under attack until it is too late.

Third ship almost done

The third Chinese universal landing ship of project 075 under construction at the shipyard in Shanghai

Photos of the third Chinese universal amphibious assault ship of project 075, being built at the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard of the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipbuilding Group (part of the Shanghai Shipbuilding Company of the Chinese state shipbuilding corporation China Shipbuilding State Corporation - CSSC) in Shanghai, have been published. Project 075 UDC is a large unit, comparable in size to the US Navy UDC in its class. The length of the UDC of the 075 project is, according to various sources, from 235 to 250 m, and the total displacement, according to unofficial Chinese sources, is about 36 thousand tons. American UDC types America have a length of 254-257 m and a total displacement of 40 to 46 thousand tons.





https://dambiev.livejournal.com/2135694.html

The second and third Chinese universal amphibious assault ships of project 075 are under construction. December 2020

2nd Chinese universal amphibious assault ship of project 075 went to sea trials

On the morning of December 22, 2020 in Shanghai, from the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard of the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipbuilding Group (part of the Shanghai Shipbuilding Company of the Chinese state shipbuilding corporation China Shipbuilding State Corporation - CSSC), the second universal landing ship entered the factory sea trials at sea. project 075, built for the PLA Navy.
Project 075 UDC has been built for the PLA Navy at the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard since 2017, and is expected to be commissioned in 2021. Project 075 UDC is a large unit, comparable in size to the US Navy UDC in its class. The length of the UDC of project 075 is 235 m, and the total displacement is about 36 thousand tons. American UDC types Tarawa, Wasp and America have a length of 254-257 m and a total displacement of 40 to 46 thousand tons. Another project 075 ship is under construction at Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard.








https://dambiev.livejournal.com/2165733.html

George1 wrote:2nd Chinese universal amphibious assault ship of project 075 went to sea trials

On the morning of December 22, 2020 in Shanghai, from the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard of the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipbuilding Group (part of the Shanghai Shipbuilding Company of the Chinese state shipbuilding corporation China Shipbuilding State Corporation - CSSC), the second universal landing ship entered the factory sea trials at sea. project 075, built for the PLA Navy.
Project 075 UDC has been built for the PLA Navy at the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard since 2017, and is expected to be commissioned in 2021. Project 075 UDC is a large unit, comparable in size to the US Navy UDC in its class. The length of the UDC of project 075 is 235 m, and the total displacement is about 36 thousand tons. American UDC types Tarawa, Wasp and America have a length of 254-257 m and a total displacement of 40 to 46 thousand tons. Another project 075 ship is under construction at Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard.








https://dambiev.livejournal.com/2165733.html

Wow. Now that's what I call China speed. Meanwhile, the two much smaller Russian LHD under construction are nowhere to be seen.

Tai Hai Chen wrote:

George1 wrote:2nd Chinese universal amphibious assault ship of project 075 went to sea trials

On the morning of December 22, 2020 in Shanghai, from the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard of the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipbuilding Group (part of the Shanghai Shipbuilding Company of the Chinese state shipbuilding corporation China Shipbuilding State Corporation - CSSC), the second universal landing ship entered the factory sea trials at sea. project 075, built for the PLA Navy.
Project 075 UDC has been built for the PLA Navy at the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard since 2017, and is expected to be commissioned in 2021. Project 075 UDC is a large unit, comparable in size to the US Navy UDC in its class. The length of the UDC of project 075 is 235 m, and the total displacement is about 36 thousand tons. American UDC types Tarawa, Wasp and America have a length of 254-257 m and a total displacement of 40 to 46 thousand tons. Another project 075 ship is under construction at Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard.








https://dambiev.livejournal.com/2165733.html

Wow. Now that's what I call China speed. Meanwhile, the two much smaller Russian LHD under construction are nowhere to be seen.

It takes Russia longer because they produce quality over Chinese and American quantity. That ship will still be mince meat against Zircon...also Modern domestic fighter jet engines in China are nowhere to be seen knob-gobbler lol! Let them copy everything they like, producing something in shittier quality. Back in the day they used copy the Asian's home work...now the Asian kid is copying everyone else's homework!

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Tai Hai Chen wrote:

George1 wrote:2nd Chinese universal amphibious assault ship of project 075 went to sea trials

On the morning of December 22, 2020 in Shanghai, from the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard of the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipbuilding Group (part of the Shanghai Shipbuilding Company of the Chinese state shipbuilding corporation China Shipbuilding State Corporation - CSSC), the second universal landing ship entered the factory sea trials at sea. project 075, built for the PLA Navy.
Project 075 UDC has been built for the PLA Navy at the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard since 2017, and is expected to be commissioned in 2021. Project 075 UDC is a large unit, comparable in size to the US Navy UDC in its class. The length of the UDC of project 075 is 235 m, and the total displacement is about 36 thousand tons. American UDC types Tarawa, Wasp and America have a length of 254-257 m and a total displacement of 40 to 46 thousand tons. Another project 075 ship is under construction at Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard.








https://dambiev.livejournal.com/2165733.html

Wow. Now that's what I call China speed. Meanwhile, the two much smaller Russian LHD under construction are nowhere to be seen.

It takes Russia longer because they produce quality over Chinese and American quantity. That ship will still be mince meat against Zircon...also Modern domestic fighter jet engines in China are nowhere to be seen knob-gobbler lol! Let them copy everything they like, producing something in shittier quality. Back in the day they used copy the Asian's home work...now the Asian kid is copying everyone else's homework!

Zircon is no match for DF-17.

https://www.google.com/search?q=DF-17&client=ubuntu&hs=0hq&channel=fs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA9tTupuLtAhU-GFkFHTlCCzoQ_AUoAXoECAcQAw&biw=1391&bih=737

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Tai Hai Chen wrote:

George1 wrote:2nd Chinese universal amphibious assault ship of project 075 went to sea trials

On the morning of December 22, 2020 in Shanghai, from the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard of the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipbuilding Group (part of the Shanghai Shipbuilding Company of the Chinese state shipbuilding corporation China Shipbuilding State Corporation - CSSC), the second universal landing ship entered the factory sea trials at sea. project 075, built for the PLA Navy.
Project 075 UDC has been built for the PLA Navy at the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard since 2017, and is expected to be commissioned in 2021. Project 075 UDC is a large unit, comparable in size to the US Navy UDC in its class. The length of the UDC of project 075 is 235 m, and the total displacement is about 36 thousand tons. American UDC types Tarawa, Wasp and America have a length of 254-257 m and a total displacement of 40 to 46 thousand tons. Another project 075 ship is under construction at Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard.

https://dambiev.livejournal.com/2165733.html

Wow. Now that's what I call China speed. Meanwhile, the two much smaller Russian LHD under construction are nowhere to be seen.

It takes Russia longer because they produce quality over Chinese and American quantity. That ship will still be mince meat against Zircon...also Modern domestic fighter jet engines in China are nowhere to be seen knob-gobbler lol! Let them copy everything they like, producing something in shittier quality. Back in the day they used copy the Asian's home work...now the Asian kid is copying everyone else's homework!

Calling Chines naval hardware low quality is getting old, compare the type 075 to the Ivan gren-class for exampel   , but okey. Saying that US warship is bad quality if you compare it with Russias is just laughable.
It takes Russia longer becouse the have had serius issues with thier engines, radars, workplants and money. And Zircon or not, if they cant produce more then 2 frigates in 10 years they are really in bad shape.

walle83 wrote:
Calling Chines naval hardware low quality is getting old, compare the type 075 to the Ivan gren-class for exampel   , but okey. Saying that US warship is bad quality if you compare it with Russias is just laughable.
It takes Russia longer becouse the have had serius issues with thier engines, radars, workplants and money. And Zircon or not, if they cant produce more then 2 frigates in 10 years they are really in bad shape.

Its a matter of priorities. For example, even now China doesn't even have a working EW or in the foreseeable future. Both Russia and the US possess the capability to eliminate the majority of China's nuclear arsenal in a first strike with BMDs reducing the effectiveness of a diminished second strike to a minimum.

I don't know about you, but I consider safeguarding the only insurance against instant genocide a much higher priority than some botes.

walle83 wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Tai Hai Chen wrote:

George1 wrote:2nd Chinese universal amphibious assault ship of project 075 went to sea trials

On the morning of December 22, 2020 in Shanghai, from the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard of the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipbuilding Group (part of the Shanghai Shipbuilding Company of the Chinese state shipbuilding corporation China Shipbuilding State Corporation - CSSC), the second universal landing ship entered the factory sea trials at sea. project 075, built for the PLA Navy.
Project 075 UDC has been built for the PLA Navy at the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard since 2017, and is expected to be commissioned in 2021. Project 075 UDC is a large unit, comparable in size to the US Navy UDC in its class. The length of the UDC of project 075 is 235 m, and the total displacement is about 36 thousand tons. American UDC types Tarawa, Wasp and America have a length of 254-257 m and a total displacement of 40 to 46 thousand tons. Another project 075 ship is under construction at Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard.

https://dambiev.livejournal.com/2165733.html

Wow. Now that's what I call China speed. Meanwhile, the two much smaller Russian LHD under construction are nowhere to be seen.

It takes Russia longer because they produce quality over Chinese and American quantity. That ship will still be mince meat against Zircon...also Modern domestic fighter jet engines in China are nowhere to be seen knob-gobbler lol! Let them copy everything they like, producing something in shittier quality. Back in the day they used copy the Asian's home work...now the Asian kid is copying everyone else's homework!

Calling Chines naval hardware low quality is getting old, compare the type 075 to the Ivan gren-class for exampel   , but okey. Saying that US warship is bad quality if you compare it with Russias is just laughable.
It takes Russia longer becouse the have had serius issues with thier engines, radars, workplants and money. And Zircon or not, if they cant produce more then 2 frigates in 10 years they are really in bad shape.

Russia construction capability is simply laughable. While China built the world's longest sea bridge 55 km long, Russia can't build a 6 km long bridge connecting Sakhalin to mainland, despite years of boasting it can. And as for Crimea bridge, it mostly runs along the Tuzla island, with two small parts over sea, so it can't be said as being a true sea bridge.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/china-opens-worlds-longest-sea-bridge-tunnel-connect/story?id=58681380

The PLA has really moved ahead alot in the last 10 years. From the Type-72 landing ship to the Type-71 LPD to the Type-75 LHD.

Wow. Now that's what I call China speed. Meanwhile, the two much smaller Russian LHD under construction are nowhere to be seen.

Those LHDs were only laid down this year.

Zircon is no match for DF-17

S-300 could shoot down DF-17. It is unknown if S-500 could shoot down Zircon.

So you not understand the difference between a mach 5 glide vehicle launched from a solid rocket booster and a mach 9 scramjet powered missile?

Calling Chines naval hardware low quality is getting old, compare the type 075 to the Ivan gren-class for exampel Neutral , but okey. Saying that US warship is bad quality if you compare it with Russias is just laughable.

US warships rely on anti ship missiles that were in service in the late 1970s...

It takes Russia longer becouse the have had serius issues with thier engines, radars, workplants and money. And Zircon or not, if they cant produce more then 2 frigates in 10 years they are really in bad shape.

Their corvettes are better than most HATO destroyers... they are now getting to the point of self sufficiency and despite its relatively low priority they are moving to a point where they will start mass production of corvettes and frigates and they can start looking at destroyer designs.

There is no navy in the world that comes even close to threatening them... there is no hurry.

While China built the world's longest sea bridge 55 km long, Russia can't build a 6 km long bridge connecting Sakhalin to mainland, despite years of boasting it can.

Russia does not have an enormous population on Sakhalin Island... spending large amounts of money building a bridge right now is pretty hard to justify... but probably the biggest hurdle is that Sakhalin Island is more than 6km away from Russia so a 6km bridge would not be a bridge it would be a ramp.

And as for Crimea bridge, it mostly runs along the Tuzla island, with two small parts over sea, so it can't be said as being a true sea bridge.

Yeah, showing your keen intelligence there buddy... when building a bridge you try to avoid land because land is solid and stable and not subject to turbulence during storms, but by all means tell me how they should have built it...

The PLA has really moved ahead alot in the last 10 years. From the Type-72 landing ship to the Type-71 LPD to the Type-75 LHD.

But that is perfectly understandable because when a third world country gets lots of investment from the west and has all this production capacity all of a sudden then of course they are going to produce... and produce fast... but what exactly are they going to do with all these amazing ships?

What are they for?

Photo opportunities to wave dicks on the internet?

walle83 wrote:The PLA has really moved ahead alot in the last 10 years. From the Type-72 landing ship to the Type-71 LPD to the Type-75 LHD.

Type 071 entered service in 2007. I would agree with you if you said the last 20 years, not the last 10 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_071_amphibious_transport_dock

Tai Hai Chen wrote:

walle83 wrote:The PLA has really moved ahead alot in the last 10 years. From the Type-72 landing ship to the Type-71 LPD to the Type-75 LHD.

Type 071 entered service in 2007. I would agree with you if you said the last 20 years, not the last 10 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_071_amphibious_transport_dock

well 13 then, if you start from the 072 replacement.

The third Chinese universal landing ship of project 075 under construction at the shipyard in Shanghai