Global warming

Climate change is normal... human effects currently are abnormal and have changed and are changing the environment... humans are better adapted to different temperatures than most other life on the planet, but we will certainly need to be on our toes to ensure food supply and to counter the effects of flooding and drought and other issues like water levels.

Ice ages occurred before humans burned fossil fuels and will continue to occur... it would be amusing if attempts to stop global warming resulted in an ice age instead... but I doubt we could be that organised and effective on a globally significant scale.

I was talking about everyone, don't take it personnally.

You can hate them but European countries are doing a lot to reduce pollution. Contrary to US and China.

Not sure if you directed that at me but I posted my opinion without reading any of the other posts already posted, so to be honest I didn't take anything personally... I just gave my opinion.

But what we do need is a teenage european kid to tell the world... particularly the third world that they need to stop developing and industrialising their economies because she says so.

Most people want a more comfortable and safe and stable future for their families and if they can't get it where they are most are prepared to move to get it.

Brazil is a case in point... the west has destroyed all its local forests and nature habitats while it was developing and growing their economies, but it seems now that no one else can do the same because some in the west claim it is bad.

Why.

As I said, climate change is natural... there are lots of different factors but the worlds climate has never been static and stable... it has been one thing or another that changes things... change is natural and normal.

So what if it gets warmer or colder... we really can't control it either way and have to deal with the consequences.

During the Dark Ages in Europe there was a period of cold weather and they survived.

But the Europeans are not reducing pollution... they are adding to pollution... you might argue they have reduced the amount of the acceleration of the pollution, but they certainly have not stopped all pollution completely and started removing pollution from the air and water...

As plastic levels increase in their food supply it will be interesting the effect it has on cancer rates... but then they have been responsible for protecting the oil industry and ignoring greener energy options for the last 70-80 years.

I was talking to papa.

Fair enough.

Soory but no. West isn't the only responsible. All the world took advantages of western technology development and they are as much responsible as the west for global warming.

If only... the west has had plenty of time to pass through the dirty smoky industrial age and to enter into the space age with new technology that could allow industrial production without the pollution... and I don't just mean gas and coal fired power stations, I mean all the chemical pollution most industrial societies produce.

The west continues to produce enormous amounts of pollution, which much of the third world has barely started... if the west wants to tell Brazil and other countries how they can or cannot develop then they need to front up... the goal of burning down the rainforest is to make money by farming or building houses or using the land to generate income... if the west wants them to stop then they need to have a financial counter offer... pay them to not cut or burn it down. Send in some specialists to document all the new species there... followed by chemists who can use the new plants and animals and insects to develop new technologies.... send in anthropologists to talk to the natives about which plants or animals they use for different purposes, and get your moneys worth that way... perhaps even use the native trees and replant areas to regrow parts of it if you like... as long as you are paying for it then that would be fine... and with that money Brazil can develop its infrastructure the way you guys did, except instead of burning down forests and building farms, they can earn money from their forests.

All the countries use oil, gaz, cars ... In asia they mostly use asian cars.

Indeed you did, and you introduced these technologies around the world...

Brazil sold its trees and its forest, west didn't took it by force just like we buy everything we take in Africa, it's not our fault if they let some dictators take all the money.

Brazil is selling its trees and burning down forests for farm land and they are fine with that... it is the west that is bitching about them cutting and burning the rain forest. If you want to keep the Brazilian rainforest and think it belongs to the world then start fucking paying for its up keep. The Brazilian rain forest clearly has a value to you guys, well it has a value to Brazil as well, but they get that value by burning it down and making farms... if you want them to keep it them make it more valuable to them intact.

And stop that horse shit about corruption... the west promotes corruption in the third world... that is how they keep them poor by shooting any good moral people with consciences and dealing with and supporting the criminals because they are easier and cheaper to pay off.

All the stuff you use in your everyday life is now produced in every country with their own brands. China is the one who benefits the most from western technology as they produced almost everything and they got richer thanks to that.

That is wrong as well... we used to make things in New Zealand, but we don't now... we had a clothing industry, but now it is a fashion industry, we don't make cars or fridges and ovens here any more because China makes it much much cheaper, so western companies have moved production offshore to save money.

The amusing thing is that the Chinese are smart and they have screwed us.... a big western company like Nike builds a big factory in China and it works 8 hours a day making 400 dollar a pair Nike shoes... but the chinese manager isn't stupid... he hires two other shifts of workers so the factory runs 24/7 with three 8 hour shifts a day, but the other 16 hours a day it makes other shoes on the same machinery using the same materials and he sells them for 20 dollars a pair instead of the 50 dollars a pair he gets from Nike. Same shoes, but without the Nike logo many westerners wont give them a second look, but in countries who don't even know what nike is he can sell those shoes for 40-50 dollars a pair and still make a fortune... and that happens across the board.

A lot of innovation happens on the factory floor... improved manufacturing methods, replacing materials, new design changes... that is gone from the western production model now...

Of course now big western multinational companies are going to shift production to India... but those factories in China are just going to expand and grow anyway...  Trump is demanding Apple moves its factories out of China... they wont move them to America like he wants, they will go to India or Bangladesh.

Low wages, no workers rights, enormous labour pool. Cheap to bribe.

You say the west developed its industries and now wants to stop other's development but if you go in most of countries of the world you will see they are developed too and use the same technologies as you.

Owned by western companies for the most part, who rarely spread around their profit locally.

Top Gear went for a trip to Africa and of course they were expecting terrible roads... but the roads were actually very good in many places... the Chinese built them... which makes you think... Europe has been in Africa for 300 odd years... why didn't they build good roads?

But then why would they because that would suggest they gave a shit about the locals... the former PM of Britain... May was certainly upset that African countries were being fooled into getting in to debt spirals with agreements with China where they will never escape.... which is ironic because that is what Europe has been doing there all this time and the Chinese are in fact doing the opposite... improving the lot of the local people.

These people don't move to strange countries in the north where they speak funny languages and have totally different cultures just for a bit of fun... most of them want to live in a safe comfortable country where their children have the potential to live safe comfortable lives... if you had let Africa develop and grow they wouldn't even consider going to europe.

But of course when I say you, I don't mean you personally... you had no say in the matter...

The level of development may not be the same but it's not a reason to close eyes and keep destroying the earth.

Destroying the Earth... that is a bit melodramatic isn't it?

The Earth has survived much worse than anything we can do to it... look at Chernobyl... a huge dump of radiation actually boosted nature far more than anything man has ever tried before... and it is not because the radioactivity created super creatures and plants like spider man... it is because it made humans leave the area and when they did that nature took over and immediately started to repair the damage we create.

If you want to save the world the stop having kids and have a couple of very serious wars... or terraform Mars and send most of the population there.

I hope my children and grand children will enjoy this planet as I did. And not be cooked alive like surface of Mercury.

The climate is never static and always changes anyway... if human activity is effecting the climate... so what... there are a huge number of variables that effect climate... some are short term and others over a longer period... if we are creating a warming period then that is fine... the whole world can't even decide on the same religion... what are the chances of global action fixing the problems of today.

People make too much money on oil and gas and they are not going to allow that money tree to get cut down.

What if we successfully fix what we have done... I think it wont happen, but what if we do and a new ice age starts like it was supposed to... the last ice age there was an ice sheet 3km thick over New York and you could walk from Russia to Alaska, and across the english channel... but then when people start building houses on that sea bed and nations borders change dramatically then what do we do when the ice age ends and the sea fills up again and all those new houses and buildings are flooded.... oh no...

Life on earth has been easy... plenty of clean air and clean water and we have burned and used up a lot of energy sources and materials to build what we currently have.

In the future there are going to be wars for resources with the west continuing to steal from the poor and the weak and telling them they are doing them a favour.

The irony is that a lot of warming will greatly increase the amount of fresh water in the arctic ocean which could change the currents so the gulf stream that currently keeps europe artificially warm might change or stop all together and Japan and Alaska and far east Russia might suddenly become warmer, and europe become much much colder.

The recycling technology needed to live in submarines for weeks or other planets of space for years or decades will be invaluable here on earth to allow existing resources to stretch to everyone... though I suspect a few costly and bloody wars might be fought before we realise it is not about the 1% getting what they want, but about the 99% getting what they need.