Islam and terrorism

i hope no one undestand me wrongly
i love all people even their nationality or religion
i just like the video!

And the Americans would say 9-11 predated the invasions. They wanted blood and I can't say I blame them for that. Invasion of Iraq was misplaced, but it does hold a certain strategic value. They have yet to steal iraqi oil as they pay market price for it.

Vladimir79 wrote:And the Americans would say 9-11 predated the invasions. They wanted blood and I can't say I blame them for that. Invasion of Iraq was misplaced, but it does hold a certain strategic value. They have yet to steal iraqi oil as they pay market price for it.

who make 9-11??
is iraq made it !!!
where is the nuclear bombs that mr rumsfeld talked about


it's just afake things...

why invading acountry like irak and destroying it!!!!
thousands of peoples dead in afghanistan > did they arrest benladen and taliban??

killing people will produce more terrorists
all contries will suffer from it,even islamic countries...

Invasion of Iraq wasn't to dismantle Terrorist operations but more or less a statement of Power and an Outpost for American empire. In Afghanistan it was more justified but I wouldn't say we have captured Taliban or Bin Ladin, we seem to always kill their Number #2 guys but never the Number #1 guy, but that's fine with us, because they're all hiding in Pakistan and we really don't want to invade everybody because it'll give us a bad name and stretch our forces too thin.

Invasion of Iraq wasn't to dismantle Terrorist operations but more or less a statement of Power and an Outpost for American empire

yeah
if you want to make an empire ,you have to kill above one million iraqian people.!!
good thinking ...!!

In Afghanistan it was more justified

hey man,you gonna kidding me ,,
do you really think that usa and nato army make any prgress in afghanistan ?!!!
you daily lost men and hardware and millions of $$$$
plus you establish anew global terrorism that will come to your society and make things like 9/11
is these things called vectory?!!!

we really don't want to invade everybody because it'll give us a bad name and stretch our forces too thin.

before saying those tow reasons,,you had to say that invading the others will make such aMassacre to innocent people to both countries USA and pakistan.....
people's life is the important thing.......
regards...

Why did the us US invade Iraq? They thought it was going to be rather easy. Saddam was hated by the majority, plenty of oil wealth to repay for reconstruction and an educated population made a convincing case to Bush and his cronies they could pull it off. They failed because they disbanded the levers of control and didn't make a coalition government. Kurdistan has turned into what the US planned for the whole country with double digit growth without the oil sharing deal in place. Not a single coalition casualty in the region and the largest second language in school is English. The hidden Bush agenda was always to convert them to Christianity, and now thousands of Kurds join the Protestant missions every year. They intended to open the whole country to missionaries but wasn't safe in Bush's time and Obama has no interest in that. If things stabalise the conservatives will push missions in their agenda. It was always a religious war for Bush.

Well, would you rather have us sit back and say, "F*CK YOU OSAMA, WHAT YOU DID WAS WRONG! NEXT TIME, WE'LL BE READY!" or do what we did and attack?

IronsightSniper wrote:Well, would you rather have us sit back and say, "F*CK YOU OSAMA, WHAT YOU DID WAS WRONG! NEXT TIME, WE'LL BE READY!" or do what we did and attack?

no man,,no one said something like that..
there are alot of things that creat those terrorists,not just killing innocents>> helping country like israel to kill palestinians is also afactor and areason for terrorists to attack your country..!
palestine is the only country that don't get red of occupation!!
israel everyday is killing and rapping innocnt people in palestin and lebanon,,with aid from americe...
muslim countries as egypt has co-operation with usa to fight terrorism...
we hate them already,,but we also need afair peace in the middleeast,,just give the land to the owners...

I understand that, but what Islamic extremists don't understand is that just because we elected our Government they don't automatically have our consent for everything. There are many, many, hippies here that give Aid to Palestine and document the abuses the Israelis do to them but that won't stop our Government from giving Israeli aid and crashing a plane into a few buildings won't stop that either.

IronsightSniper wrote:I understand that, but what Islamic extremists don't understand is that just because we elected our Government they don't automatically have our consent for everything. There are many, many, hippies here that give Aid to Palestine and document the abuses the Israelis do to them but that won't stop our Government from giving Israeli aid and crashing a plane into a few buildings won't stop that either.

when someone's father killed somewhere in afghanistan,he will not think about innocent americans,his only hope is to take revenge for his father.,so we called him terrorist..
but those who fight nato soldiers in afghanistan,i think they are not terrorists,they just defend themselfes...
in islamic world we know that many americans refuse that way that your government deal with us...
but what can we do to some people who doesn't know that???
it's simple ,the whole solution in your government hands...

Which goes back to somethings U.S. Commanders have said a long time ago, that Al-Qaeda isn't even in Afghanistan anymore, but Pakistan. When we went there, they were in Afghanistan, but only recently have they fled. The only reason we're still in Afghanistan is to fix them up for all the trouble we've caused and then we'd continue trying to find Osama.

The US invasion of Iraq was all about oil.

That is clear from the operational plan... ignore the cities and people in those cities and secure the oilfields.

They didn't need the oil contracts they knew years of sanctions and an invasion would screw Iraq up economically. How are they going to improve things and get running water and regular electricity?

Pump oil.

It doesn't matter if the US companies got the contracts or not, what was important is that Iraq will be pumping oil to rebuild itself and pumping oil reduces the cost of oil for everyone which is good for the US economy.

The only problem was that the US banks were greedy and started loosening the requirements for getting a loan and all of a sudden they found a lot of their money was tied up in peoples houses and those people couldn't afford to pay back their loans. Loans they never would have gotten 30 years ago because they clearly could not pay them back. That wouldn't matter because the banks can just take the houses and sell them and get their money back... except the housing bubble burst and all of a sudden someone had a $600,000 dollar loan on a house that was worth maybe $250,000 if you could even sell it so the banks were in the Sht.

Who payed them out?

The US taxpayer.

What did the banks do?

All the high ups got a bonus for the excellent job they had done.

All the very rich people behind those backs could then have invested that money back into the US economy and started grwoth and created jobs. Problem is those rich people are greedy and instead of investing in the country whose taxpayers bailed them out, they started investing in economies with higher returns... China, Indonesia etc etc. Not bigger economies, not more powerful ones, just ones that are growing faster and offering higher returns.

If it was me, I'd be pi$$ed off and demand that the bailouts be paid back in full with a substantial interest rate and admin fees and until the money was paid back I would want a seat on the board of directors of the bank with veto power for any decision that is not in that countries interests.

And Ironsightsniper.... Please! If the US got OBL they would be out of Afghanistan overnight. It is not and has never been about the Afghan people. It is about Osama, and containing Iran is also something you like, but look at the wikileaks pages released... US companies throw a party for the security forces they have trained up and part of the bill includes boys dressed as women to dance around luridly and then go away with certain newly trained security officials for various sexual acts... paid for by the US tax payer.

Yeah... America is really setting them up well.

Uh no, you must misunderstand our Strategy. If we did get Osama via Spec Ops on Day 1, we'd leave Afghanistan no problem, maybe pay a few villagers for the trouble we caused. But we didn't send in a Squad of Navy Seals to capture Osama. We didn't airdrop the 101st Airborne over Bora Tora to capture Osama bin ladin. Instead, we hired Afghan guns to do the job for us, when that didn't work, we sent a couple divisions in. Yes, we have killed innocent civilians. Yes, we have had faulty intel. So yes, we will stay in Afghanistan and fix the damage we've done. Not to mention build a few Infrastructure here and there.

As for the Corruption, if you think America is free from Corruption you are wrong. We know we have some corrupted folks up in the top but most of the time we can't prove anything. That Party was proven and justice is going to be served dutifully. Hell, as a rebuttal I might as well say Russia is a mafia state or something.

US has no intention of leaving Afghanistan or Iraq. There will be bases there for the next hundred years unless they are overrun.

http://english.aljazeera.net//news/americas/2010/12/201012520148175694.html

The counter-terrorism practices of the FBI have once more been placed under the spotlight, as a former informant seeks legal action against the bureau, the Washington Post reported.

A story first reported by Al Jazeera 16 months ago; the FBI informant attempted to infiltrate an Islamic community centre located in Irvine, California. Scaring Muslim worshippers to such an extent - with his talk of violent jihad - that they proceeded to take out a restraining order against him.

However, the FBI claims its use of such informants has prevented a host of further attacks since the events of September 11, 2001.

The latest case follows revelations that a man who tried to bomb a Christmas event in Portland, Oregon, did so not only whilst under FBI surveillance, but had been provided with fake explosives by its undercover agents.

Making matters worse for the agency, Craig Monteilh, the convicted fraudster whom the FBI sent into the mosque to spy on its members, has gone public in suing the investigative agency.

Yet its officials have said that they do not target Muslims - an argument that has long been taken with a dose of scepticism by Muslim communities across the length and breadth of the United States.

The two cases are reviving criticisms over the government agency's apparent surveillance of Muslims in the US.

Southern Californian Muslim community leaders have expressed outrage over the FBI's methods, saying it undermines any efforts to build trust.

"The community feels betrayed," Shakeel Syed, the executive director of the Islamic Shura Council of Southern California, told the Post.

"They got a guy, a bona fide criminal, and obviously trained him and sent him to infiltrate mosques," Syed was quoted as saying. "And when things went sour, they ditched him and he got mad. It's like a soap opera, for God's sake."

Vladimir79 wrote:US has no intention of leaving Afghanistan or Iraq. There will be bases there for the next hundred years unless they are overrun.

The U.S. will be asked to leave Iraq due to pressure from Iran. Iran controls Iraq, and its politics and its shia's.

The U.S. will also be forced to leave Afghanistan to cut its losses, and save its soldiers.

The trigger for the above mentioned events will be a stock market crash which will expose the hollow economy of the U.S.

Just sit back and enjoy the show Vladimir.

As expected, these fascist thugs in the West are fukking relentless.....expect more Al-CIAda bombings and more Anarchist violence.....


Gladio reprise: More False Flag Operations

This new year will see the new fake threat of Islamist terrorism and "anarchism"

By Wayne Madsen

The corporatists and fascists who have steered Europe into bankruptcy are now using their media assets to morph their favorite threat over the last two decades — Islamist terrorism — to a combined menace of Islamist terrorists teamed up with an international network of anarchists. The change of threat was necessary with corporatists and fascist-led governments in Europe besieged by workers and students who are militantly opposed to severe cuts in social spending that were dictated from supranational institutions in order to financially bail out greedy bankers and their lackeys in governments.

In Greece and Italy, where governments are under street pressure to resign over corruption and austerity moves, there are already signs that the paradigm shift from Islamist terrorism to leftist anarchism is already occurring, with highly-suspicious and likely false flag bombings taking place at embassies and other facilities.

Europe has seen such false flag terrorist attacks in the past blamed on leftist revolutionary groups like the Italian Red Brigades and the West German Red Army Faction, but actually carried out by a network of CIA and fascist operatives, supported by local police and intelligence agencies, to blame leftists for such attacks. The operation, known generally as "Gladio," was a ploy to damage the reputation of the Communist parties of Western Europe in order that they were not invited to join in any leftist government coalitions, particularly in Italy and France.

Gladio has raised its head again in the last decade, especially in Turkey, where the Gladio successor, "Ergenekon," has attempted coups and plotted and carried out false flag terrorist attacks in an effort to undermine the Justice and Development (AKP) government of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

Bombings at embassies in Athens and Rome followed massive street demonstrations directed at the Greek government's draconian budget and pension cuts on behalf of the international banking elite and similar moves, as well as corruption, by the Italian government. European law enforcement, which now serves as a virtual arm of the European Union bureaucrats and their banking allies, is pointing to a network of anarchists who may be carrying out the bombings. The same psychological operation is being used to lump together all Muslim groups opposed to neocon European policies in the Middle East, as well as Israeli human rights violations, as somehow being linked to a worldwide network of Islamic "jihadists."

The latter psy-op is now being advanced by the head of the Danish Security and Intelligence Service (PET), Jakob Scharf, who has close connections to Israel and is of Jewish descent. Scharf led a joint Danish PET-Swedish SAPO security service law enforcement team in self-congratulating themselves for rounding up a group of five alleged Islamist terrorists who were charged with planning to attack the Copenhagen offices of the newspaper Jyllands-Posten in a Mumbai-like attack planned for January. Scharf stated, "It is our assessment that this is a militant Islamist group and they have links to international terrorist networks," adding that the group could have been linked to David Headley, an American charged with aiding in the Mumbai attacks. Scharf conveniently left out the fact that Headley was covertly working for the US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) at the time of the Mumbai attacks and may have been a false flag terrorist operative working for U.S. intelligence.

Will 2011 see a return to Gladio false flag terrorist attacks in Europe and elsewhere? Early signs say yes.

Jyllands-Postensparked outrage among Muslims worldwide when it published cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed considered blasphemous by Muslims. The newspaper's cultural editor, Flemming Rose, who approved the publication of the cartoons, was identified as being linked to various neocon and Israel Lobby operatives in Washington, including the propagandists at the neocon American Enterprise Institute. While Scharf, who has moved Denmark's PET closer to Mossad more than his predecessors have done, talks of international Islamist conspiracies to carry out terrorism, he is silent on the international conspiracy by Israeli propagandists to incite violence by publishing cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed. The neocon Mohammed cartoon operation, which incited violence that resulted in deaths from riots staged in cities in the Muslim world, never registered on Scharf's "criminal conspiracy meter" since he is part and parcel of it. Rose's columns have been welcomed by the neocon and Israel Lobby-owned and operated Wall Street Journal.

Scharf's operation against the alleged terrorists, lauded by the Obama administration, is already beginning to fall apart. One of the five charged, Abdullah Muhammed Salman, an Iraqi immigrant, was released after his arrest due to lack of evidence. He said that he merely rented an apartment to three of the accused in the plot and was unaware of their plans.

The linking of Islamist groups to leftist anarchist groups opposed to globalization and the multinational banks will gain steam as the psy-op of the Wikileaks release of classified State Department cables, accomplished with the help of the Swedish government, as recently reported by WMR, results in more calls for curbs to be placed on the Internet. Already, Greek and Italian law enforcement are claiming that European anarchist groups link to one another through the Internet. The Internet has also been cited by the neocons and the Israeli propagandists as a means for "Jihadist" groups and the fakery called "Al Qaeda" and its "affiliates" to communicate and raise funds.

2011 will see the rise of Gladio-like "anarchist" front groups that will be used to not only crack down on leftist and anti-globalist organizations but push through legislation curbing communications on and access to the Internet. Already, one such shadowy and likely front group called the "Informal Anarchist Federation" (FAI), has claimed responsibility for recent bomb attacks on the Swiss and Chilean embassies in Rome and another unsuccessful bomb attack on the Greek embassy in the Italian capital. A suspicious package was also found at the U.S. and Finnish embassies to the Vatican and the Albanian embassy to Italy in Rome and 160 consulates in Milan, once a center for Gladio activity, were placed on "high alert." Two small bombs also recently exploded at the northern Italian headquarters of the right-wing and anti-immigrant governing coalition party, the Northern League, which may be an attempt to falsely draw a link between Muslim immigrants and leftist "anarchists."

Also, bombs blamed on "anarchists" exploded at a branch of the Spanish-owned Banco Santander in Santiago, Chile and the Banco Francés in Buenos Aires, Argentina. The explosions occurred after Argentina recgoinized the independence of Palestine and as Chile was under pressure from the Chilean left and the large Palestinian-Chilean community to follow suit. During Gladio operations in Europe, links were discovered between the Argentine Anti-communist Alliance (AAA) and the Chilean junta of General Augusto Pinochet. Chile's current right-wing billionaire president, Sebastian Pinera, was a member of the Pinochet junta. Pinera's Interior Minister, Rodrigo Hinzpeter Kirberg, has been accused by Chilean Senator Eugenio Tuma of being an "activist and militant for the Israeli cause."

True to form The New York Times, on December 28, reported on the Italian-Greek "anarchist" link: "Col. Maurizio Mezzavilla of the Carabinieri paramilitary police said the device sent to the Greek embassy was a response to the arrests in Greece in November of two alleged members of an anarchist group, the Conspiracy of the Cells of Fire, which claimed responsibility for sending 14 letter bombs to embassies in Athens last month" The Times quotes Mezzavilla as saying the note found with the unexploded bomb at the Greek embassy in Rome stated: "We’re striking again, and we do so in response to the appeal sent by the Greek comrades of the Conspiracy of the Cells of Fire . . . That is why we are directing the new attack to one of the structures that represents the Greek state and its servants, in solidarity with the comrades arrested in Athens and the Conspiracy’s project which, like ours, is based on the actions and methods of revolutionary violence.” Of course, it was advantageous that the bomb at the Greek embassy failed to explode, thus leaving the highly-suspicious note intact for dissemination to the media. The operation comes right out of the Gladio playbook designed by the CIA and Pentagon special operations forces.

On December 30, The Washington Post tried to link the Danish-Swedish "plot" and the British round0up of nine suspected terrorists linked to "Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula" to the bombs in Italy: "The arrests on charges of Islamist-inspired terrorism came as Italy confronted a spurt of homegrown bombings attributed to European anarchist undergrounds."

Police have called for restrictions on access to Google Maps by protest groups that have been charged with using the maps and their smart phones to track police movements, including the movement of detainee transport and police command post vehicles, at mass protest rallies against the G-8 and other conclaves of the world's elite class.

It is noteworthy that the rise of previously unknown "anarchist" groups is occurring in the very same countries where Gladio's operations were most extensive: Italy and Greece. Italy was the nexus for Organazzizione Gladio, the Italian branch of the pan-European CIA-led terrorist operations. In Greece, the Gladio group was known as "Operation Sheepskin."

With larger anti-government and anti-banking strikes and street protests planned for not only Italy and Greece, but also France, Spain, Portugal, Austria, the United Kingdom, Ireland, and other countries, 2011 will see a rise in the number of false flag terrorist attacks that will be blamed by law enforcement and their corporate media echo chambers on "anarchists." The neocon and pro-Israeli media will also step up planted stories designed to link "anarchists" to "Jihadists." Gladio cells in all these countries, which never actually disappeared but were placed on reserve, will be activated as "leftists" are lumped in with "Islamists" and "Jihadists" as "enemies of the global state."

This time next year may see an entirely different kind of Internet and a more fascist America, a situation that may even see WMR heading into exile abroad in order to continue reporting the truth.

Wayne Madsen is a Washington, DC-based investigative journalist, author and syndicated columnist. He has written

for several renowned papers and blogs.

Madsen is a regular contributor on Russia Today. He has been a frequent political and national security commentator on Fox News and has also appeared on ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, CNN, BBC, Al Jazeera, and MS-NBC. Madsen has taken on Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity on their television shows. He has been invited to testifty as a witness before the US House of Representatives, the UN Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda, and an terrorism investigation panel of the French government.

As a U.S. Naval Officer, he managed one of the first computer security programs for the U.S. Navy. He subsequently worked for the National Security Agency, the Naval Data Automation Command, Department of State, RCA Corporation, and Computer Sciences Corporation.

Madsen is a member of the Society of Professional Journalists (SPJ), Association for Intelligence Officers (AFIO), and the National Press Club. He is a regular contributor to Opinion Maker.

i think it become a fashion to call muslims terrorists.why they were not called terrorists b4 9/11,althogh terrorism existed in the world.first they were called fundamentalists,then extremists, and now they r openly called terrorists.i wonder what will be the next title? What will u call Tamil Tigers in Srilanka,Maoists in Nepal,Indian army in Kashmir, Russians in Chechnia, Israeli forces in Palestine, American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan?ARE PEACE MAKERS?

It is an American thing.

In the last century most groups that the US called communists were actually nationalises fighting colonial rule... like Cubans and Vietnamese.

They became communists because the communists helped them against their colonial oppressors.

200 years ago the US name for bad guy was Indians...

If Al quada was fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan they would be called freedom fighters by the US.

Just don't take it seriously.

Th irony is that if anyone is a terrorist then it has to be the west... allied bombing of Germany during WWII, the use of nuclear weapons in Japan, Shock and Awe in Iraq... uses of violence and murder to get their way or impose their will on others.

Good spotting...

This thread is now pretty much on a timer... if goodanna is a real person and posts an introduction in the next 48 hours then this thread will be moved to a more appropriate thread.

If not then this thread will just disappear... I am good at magic tricks...

Didn't somebody say "One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist".

To put it bluntly... Muslims(or people who called themselves muslims) have spread Islam with sword to many places in the world and have not won any friends while doing that. There is a hatred towards muslims among the natives of those places who resisted conversions or getting killed and managed to survive with their cultures intact/nearly intact. Sorry but muslims are not going to be respected in those places. Its just human nature. I can only talk about these places since I come from one.

Request to moderators....Just move his thread to general talk section.. but why delete it? As long as people talk in a civilised way.

If a discussion forms then it will not be deleted but moved.

If no one bothers to chat about the subject it made sense to delete.

To put it bluntly... Muslims(or people who called themselves muslims) have spread Islam with sword to many places in the world and have not won any friends while doing that. There is a hatred towards muslims among the natives of those places who resisted conversions or getting killed and managed to survive with their cultures intact/nearly intact. Sorry but muslims are not going to be respected in those places. Its just human nature. I can only talk about these places since I come from one.

What you say is very true... the problem is that you could replace Muslims with Christians and exactly the same points would be true. Christians have gone around the world and imposed their values and morals on the world... they made natives cover their breasts, and despise their own bodies like the Christians do, and they enforced conversions and changes with violence and murder... just look at the Tongan community here in New Zealand. Their christian church demands the faithful hand over a percentage of their income so they can spend money on the church. A Tongan church in Australia just declared bankruptcy owing 23 MILLION DOLLARS!!!

Various religions have their problems and while many do good in the community it is at a cost... if you judge one then you must judge them all.

The problems are rarely with the religions themselves but the interpretation of those religions by those who crave power and position. I say if the Pope or leader of the church will not spend a week doing the lowliest of jobs on the lowliest wage then they shouldn't hold their position... and they should have to do it every year just to give them a view that is not from an ivory tower.

Goodanna are you there or you just an advanced computer code?